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High-Tech Foosball Mod Project

Posted by chrisd on Thu Jan 02, 2003 07:08 AM
from the thirty-dollar-magstripe-readers dept.
Entertainment Games
JakeBullet writes: "Project: Take a standard foosball table and make it a little bit smarter. 1. The table should be aware of who's playing, the score and the status of the game. 2. Take the data from the game and use it to create a stats engine and player ranking system. 3. Project all relevant information about gameplay onto a flat screen. 4. Spend under $50.
+ -
story
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  • Spinning (Score:4, Interesting)

    by assaultriflesforfree (635986) on Thursday January 02 2003, @07:15AM (#4997727)
    Second post... fantastic. I have a question (poll I guess) for foosball players out there. Spinning or no spinning? Personally, I don't like spinning - especially since it can damage a table - but I've found that depending on where I play, house rules seem to change. What do you think? This leads me to an idea for a neat feature for a high-tech table - a spin detector that doles out appropriate punishment (i.e. not counting points scored from spins, or whatever).

    • Re:Spinning (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 02 2003, @07:22AM (#4997752)
      Nah. When you spin, you lose a lot of control. I've always found that players may start out spinning, but once they've played a few games they stop. You can get a HELL of a shot from a normal flick of the wrist, plus then you're ready to immediately stuff a rebound coming back from your shot. If you spin, you lose contact with the handle and thus you lose control and reaction.
    • I'd love a Spin Detector on my TV... so that whenever a politician's trying to spin something I can be warned... ...although I guess it would prove useless because the damn thing would be flashing all the time...
    • According to the "Official Foosball Rules" that came with my foosball table (which came with the house when we bought it...) spinning is _not_ allowed in tournament games.

      As I've never played a 'tournament' I play with spinning allowed, but YMMV.

      -Trillian

    • Re:Spinning (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 02 2003, @08:27AM (#4997925)
      Any person that has played more than the occasional casual game of foosball knows that spinning is a quick way to lose. The keys to winning are:
      • Ball control - By far the most important, as the opponent cannot score if they don't have the ball;
      • Shot speed - Important, but not as much as most people think (a well placed angle shot scores the same value point as the burner to that dents the back of the goal);
      • Deception - Disguising your shot so that the opponent doesn't see it coming;
      • Anticipation - Being able to anticipate the opponent's shot (particularly easy when they are bad at deception);
      • Exploiting Weakness - Find a shot in your arsensal that the opponent can't block and you're home free;
      • Playing - Like most things in life, the more you do it the better you get at it.

      • With spinning, you gain a broken table and a high total in the "L" column (to match the L on your forehead ;-). When I play against "spinners", I know that it's going to be a short, uninteresting game. But watching their frustration when you *always* have the ball is funny. :-)

      • Re:Spinning (Score:5, Funny)

        by Gudlyf (544445) <gudlyf@rea l i s t e k .com> on Thursday January 02 2003, @09:08AM (#4998122) Homepage Journal
        "Well, can you imagine a real life football (soccer, whatever) player spin 2 or 3 times ? I can't ..."

        Yeah, and while we're at it, I don't recall ever seeing the forwards connected together with a metal rod, restricting them to left-right movement. Same for the defensemen, too. Therefore, I vote against the foosball players being tethered together like that, because it's not like real life.

        Not every table game has to be like real life. You play by the mechanics and rules given to you. What matters is that everyone has fun and nobody else's expense.

      • I think that once you get better at foosball, you just naturally stop spinning.

        I think it's more of a case of when you keep losing, you stop spinning. Then you become a better player.

  • Okay then.. (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 02 2003, @07:19AM (#4997736)
    > Spend under $50.

    Hey CowboyNeal, bet'ya $49.95 you can't take this laptop, climb inside that foosball table and stay down there while I hammer the surface back on..

  • Lingo and Serial Port Listining.. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by g00z (81380) on Thursday January 02 2003, @07:21AM (#4997742) Homepage
    First, I found it sorta wierd that he decided to use director as a front end -- Personaly I would have used flash since actionscript is less archaic than lingo is and for doing dynamic vector stuff flash cant be beat. But hey, more power too him.

    I am, however, curious as to how he is getting this data (1's and 0's) from the serial port to director? I wasn't aware that lingo had any hardware level control (besides the keybord and mouse) -- unless he's got it wired up so the bx board is actualy simulating a mouse click, but he doesn't say. I find myself wanting more details.

    And by the way, the article is a little misleading. $50 for the sensors, breadboard and card reader. Flat screen LCD, foozball table and computer not included. See store for details.
    • First of all i agree that flash would be better but maybe he has a lot of knowledge of director from his studies...

      I believe that the way the data is taken in is by simulating a keystroke which is then captured.

      And finally i dont think this was meant to be an outline for anyone else to do the project. His goal was to only spend $50 but im sure people could do it with less depending on available materials.

    • Re:Lingo and Serial Port Listining.. (Score:4, Informative)

      by TheTomcat (53158) on Thursday January 02 2003, @08:27AM (#4997921) Homepage
      Director has much better support for third-party "Xtras" (plugins). Yes Lingo is a dirty, nasty language (better now that dot-notation is the norm), but I don't think serial-port interaction could be directly possible in Flash Player.

      See: Serial Xtra [clintonstreet.org]

      S

    • I'm very sorry, besides the header is a little misleading I don't see anything innovative or interesting in this project... Back in '87 I had a teacher who used an Acorn and some homebrewn hardware to measure the speed of moving objects and other 'scientific' stuff and then draw graphs of the data gathered.

      What does this fussball table that a pinball machine doesn't? IMHO it is just a rather primitive two person pinball game. Oh yes, it reads smartcards, very impressive.

      Anyway I can image it must have been fun to built it. And... NYU now can measure how much time their students spend on playing fussball.

  • Cool, but... (Score:4, Funny)

    by Harald74 (40901) on Thursday January 02 2003, @07:21AM (#4997744) Homepage Journal
    ...can it sense your mood when you're loosing?

      • Re:Cool, but... (Score:5, Insightful)

        by VikingBerserker (546589) on Thursday January 02 2003, @08:58AM (#4998061)

        What if an incentive system were installed, instead? Considering that most foosball tables are found where drinking is involved, what if a nice, cold beer were dispensed to the player who scores each goal?

        I figure things would get interesting as the player who took an early lead slows his reaction times due to alcohol, thus leveling the playing field.

  • And he got *credit* for this project? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by kbs (70631) on Thursday January 02 2003, @07:21AM (#4997745) Homepage
    I'd be curious to know what the original statement of the project parameters were.

    Also, it seems that the encoding on the student card may be the same as what we use; apparently the encoding of the social security number in my student card is the same as the encoding of the social security number at a local supermarket.

  • The goal problem (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Kajakske (59577) on Thursday January 02 2003, @07:22AM (#4997750) Homepage Journal
    Well, he doesn't detect goals for 100%, right ?
    Couldn't he combine the two systems ?

    Like, detect when the ball hits the back plate + when it goes thhrough the vending machine censor. That way, if the ball just rolls in, the vending machine sensor will detect it, when it bounces the plate will detect it, and when they do bot (bounce but roll in anyway) they'll both detect it ...

    It might get him over the $50 when adding extra sensors ofcourse ...

  • Umm... security concerns. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by elrond2 (619935) on Thursday January 02 2003, @07:23AM (#4997755)
    Any system tied to SSN is pretty scary -- even with an MD5 hash the SSN is recoverable due to the small 'keyspace'. Comments?

    • Re:Umm... security concerns. (Score:4, Funny)

      by dr_labrat (15478) <spooner@@@gmail...com> on Thursday January 02 2003, @07:53AM (#4997825) Homepage
      You are absolutely righy, and yet I can't help feeling that it doesn't actually matter.
      Its a foosball game.
      • Ah, but if this becomes a permanent system, now you have proof of where kids are in the school.

        BMCC had a problem with this, where they tracked your entry into various buildings and if you didn't entre certain buildings at certain times, in liu with your schedule, you'd lose financial aid.

        So nw the concern is, is the kid goofing off or in class? At NYU, they don't care.. they just care they are getting money and have someone standing in front of the classroom "giving quality education".

  • What? (Score:5, Funny)

    by MoThugz (560556) on Thursday January 02 2003, @07:24AM (#4997757) Homepage
    From the article: In my opinion, the most interesting part of the project is the database that ties everything together. When the user swipes his or her NYU card, Director takes this information and sends it to a ASP script (running on an Windows 2000 box that is tied to an Access database). This ASP script runs a MySQL query through Access and spits back XML that contains information on the player (wins, loss, average points per game, number of games played, etc) . This XML is passed back into Director via getNetText and put into global variables which are then fed to the screen at the appropriate time.

    ASP script on a Win2k box, tied to an Access DB, which runs MySQL queries, spitting out XML which is parsed in Director. Does this guy actually realizes what he has written?
    • ASP script on a Win2k box, tied to an Access DB, which runs MySQL queries, spitting out XML which is parsed in Director. Does this guy actually realizes what he has written?

      Windows.KNOT?

  • Of course it cost less than $50... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by pwagland (472537) on Thursday January 02 2003, @07:31AM (#4997770) Journal
    He just happened to have:
    1. A large flat screen plasma TV "lieing around"
    2. A spare box running W2K
    3. Licences for MSQL (it was legal, right?)
    4. Licences for macromedia (that control app was made legally, right?)
    5. A Foosball table...
    If I had all that lying around I am sure that I could of done it for $50 as well.... If not... well the licence for W2K alone would break that budget. And that is the cheapest item on the list!

    Not trying to take anything away from the hack, it was very cool, but saying that it cost $50 strikes me as a bit rich....

    • It's typical NYU silliness. NYU students are either

      a) typically rich
      b) getting their degrees slowly
      c) in debt from loans

    • He didn't say it cost less than $50. He said he spent less than $50.
      • It's quite feasable that the screen was already there.

        I think he used MySQL which sorts out one of the licencing costs. as for the computer - He must have had a couple of spares lieing around. What sort of a geek would he be if he didn't?
        • think he used MySQL which sorts out one of the licencing costs. as for the computer - He must have had a couple of spares lieing around. What sort of a geek would he be if he didn't?

          It seems to me that the author of the page is slightly confused:

          4. Database: IIS/SQL/MS Access

          In my opinion, the most interesting part of the project is the database that ties everything together. When the user swipes his or her NYU card, Director takes this information and sends it to a ASP script (running on an Windows 2000 box that is tied to an Access database). This ASP script runs a MySQL query through Access and spits back XML that contains information on the player (wins, loss, average points per game, number of games played, etc) . This XML is passed back into Director via getNetText and put into global variables which are then fed to the screen at the appropriate time.
          (emphasis mine)

          How you run a MySQL query through Access is beyond me. Heck, does that even make the slightest sense?
      • ...or would you complain to someone who said they'd spent $50 modding their computer, because they'd actually spent more money on actually buying the computer in the first place?

        Actually, since this is a foosball mod, I'd say that you could assume you already had the foosball table. Most foosball fanatics have a foosball player, just as most PC modders have a PC. On the other hand, I wouldn't say that most foosball fanatics have a spare plasma flat-panel sitting in the corner of their basement...

        If I said you could mod a 486 into an Itanium monster for only $15 by:

        1. Using a spare processor, power supply, motherboard, AGP video adaptor, ATA hard drive, etc.
        2. Spending $15 on a ribbon cable to connect the hard drive to the motherboard, since you don't happen to have one of those handy.

        Would you call that a real $15 upgrade?

        Even if we all have PCs lying around the house, chances are we already have those PCs doing something else they are massive overkill. Sure, I can spare an old pentium, but then I'd lose my router...

  • Cheaper option. (Score:5, Funny)

    by vilms (106676) on Thursday January 02 2003, @07:32AM (#4997775)
    Spend a tenner on a ball. Get some people together. Find some green space. Use jumpers as goalposts. Play football. Ask one player to keep score.
    Afterwards, in the bar, assess each other's footballing ability in a haze of lager and spittle.
    rinse and repeat.

      • More specifically, it requires you to be able to "get some people together".

        On the other hand, it might actually be possible to develop a sort-of geekiness scale to descibe for this sort of project using exchange rates to convert people, money and parts into a common currency of 'Geeks'.

        To that end, I therefore propose the following first draft exchange rate schedule subject to negotiation, and (of course) public ridicule:

        1 Geek for each potential human participant eliminated.
        1 Geek for each $100 spent on hardware/parts.
        -1 Geek for Each $500 spent on commercial software.
        0.2 Geek for each year of age of legacy or vintage tech parts used (> 5 years).
        1 Geek for each 1000 Lego(TM) blocks used.

        1 Geek bonus if a new language (human or computer) resulted from the project.
        1 Geek bonus for posting it on your web site.
        3 Geek bonus for getting it posted on /.
        5 Geek bonus if your web server doesn't melt as a result.
        10 Geek bonus is your project *IS* the web server.

        I'm sure we can flesh it out a little, but that's a start. so, let's try it out:
        1......1 Human statistician eliminated
        .5......$50 in parts
        -.5......$250 in commercial software (Win2k + Access)
        0......0 Legos
        0......0 Legacy factor (old parts)
        9......Posted on web site, made it to /., server didn't melt.
        =====
        So, by my calculation, this project rates 10 Geeks.

        Not bad, but 90% of that rating comes from the publicity, so I think the scale needs some tuning. I guess the first thing we need to do is calibrate the scale by rating some standard projects so we can figure out what we want a standard 'Geek' to be.

  • I'd love to know how it came to be called foosball?
    Is it to do with the German way of spelling it, with that crazy B letter they have?
    I've only ever known it as table football. In fact I couldn't work out what you were talking about at first :)
    • Google for "history of foosball" and you get this. [foosball.com]

      Apparently it's a decades-old transliteration of the German word.
    • Probably - ß actually stands for a double s. Thus, Straße can be written Strasse and Fußball can be written Fussball. I'd guess the 'oo' bit is either someone's misspelling based on football, or someone who thought it was 'Füßball' (note umlaut), which without German characters would be written 'Fuessball' and pronounced roughly 'Foosball' (though with a short 'a' - as in 'ran').
    • I wondered that myself, and thought it was a type (on Slashdot? Never!). However, from here [foosball.com]:
      The original game we know as table soccer probably originated in Germany during the late 20's. early 30's

      ....

      The German word for field soccer is ''football'' spelled FuBball .

      The funny-looking ''B'' is pronounced like two S's. hence the many corruptions of that word still used in many sections to describe the game.

      • Even that's wrong - Football is English, German is Fussball. The "weird B thing" is a double-S, and can be written as ss (and is pronounced as you would expect). It's also important to note that the German is pronounced more like "ferssbAl" - note the hard A and that the U is more of an "er". If it had an umlaut (the two little dots over the letter) then it would really be "oo". The way it is usually said, the "b" almost ends up sounding like a "p".
    • First place I ever heard it called that was on Friends - I assumed they made it up in some earlier episode! However since then I have discovered that my american colleagues have a table in the office, and they too use the mispronounced german name. Strange, they keep the "table" bit even in Germany!

  • You should see a foosball tournament some day (Score:3, Interesting)

    by idletask (588926) on Thursday January 02 2003, @07:53AM (#4997828)

    I was in Nantes when the AFBF [francebabyfoot.com] held the national foosball (called "baby foot" here) tournament. Balls were litterally flying around the table. I considered myself a pretty good player until I saw real champions play...

    Also, the foosball table that the guy used is really gross... He should have used a real foosball table [bonzini.com] instead. Those plasticky tables just suck, no way to lock a ball.

  • 4. Spend under $50.

    5. Cost of union (onion :) workers to move the tv: $100

    6. School cost of relicensing from MS-SQL to DB2, several thousand dollars.

    7. Expression on student's face when his project doesn't work since he only spent $50: Priceless.

    Seriously, doesn't the professor factor in the cost of other tools, such as the database and other software in?
  • You put all this technology into the table and don't even include a 'boo button' for when the other player gets a goal? Come on!! Nothing soothes a bruised ego like hearing the crowd boo the other guy.
    • It's useful to do this sort of thing for practise in finding technological solutions.

      I'm sure even for people who knew a lot, there was something to learn here.

    • Re:Step 5 (Score:2, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Hmm. Let's consider the choices, shall we?

      1. Fun
      2. Not Fun

      This guy chose (1) and now has an excellent foosball game, plus the admiration of thousands (notably NYU females, admit it, they're hot) and only a small load on his (borrowed) server.

      You chose (2) and I suspect are at home poring over recent InfoWorlds.

      Who's the better man? I leave that to posterity to decide. But I can guarantee I know who's enjoying his life more.
    • I was sort of dismayed to see how he seemed to stick with proprietary technologies like Windows and Director.

      My guess is he was familiar with these "dreaded" proprietary technologies and wanted to finish the project sometime before he graduated.

      Often, the best tool for a job is the one you already have handy and know how to use. It was a foosball hack, afterall, and not a governmental census database for an emerging country, right?

      • Re:Proprietary technologies (Score:5, Funny)

        by tps12 (105590) on Thursday January 02 2003, @09:31AM (#4998248) Homepage Journal
        Uh oh. The guys in my frat (don't ask) used to play a form of foosball where if you were shut out then you put your name on the wall of shame, and played with your pants down until you scored a goal.
        • We had something similar with our friends (not Greek related). We all got together for a rousing game of caps (like quarters, for all you uneducated people out there). House rules stood as whomever got shut out had to run approx. 500 feet outside and back naked. Our friends (one of whom I'm sure will post here and corroberate) has a sign signed with all the names of those who ran, my name is on there :)

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