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PC Games (Games) Entertainment Games

Sims Griefers Get More Publicity 50

Posted by simoniker from the being-bad-gets-you-noticed dept.
Thanks to an anonymous reader for pointing to a CNN article highlighting players turning to lawlessness and deviance in The Sims Online. This subject, which other reports covered a while back, seems to fascinate the media, and CNN says the problems of bad behavior are "..raising questions about whether limits on conduct should be set in such emerging virtual worlds, even if they are huge adult playpens." Additionally, the article ruminates on more serious problems, as disputes that escalate beyond the virtual "..could lead to more real-world, legal liability for both players and the companies that make the games."
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Sims Griefers Get More Publicity More

Sims Griefers Get More Publicity

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  • Well, it spices things up (Score:3, Insightful)

    by no toys in the attic ( 637286 ) on Sunday July 06, 2003 @08:33PM (#6379934) Homepage
    I think it's interesting in a sense; criminals in a virtual world kind of add an interesting dynamic to the game. I don't see the problem with it unless assets in the game had real-life worth, which has obvious negative implications and probably requires some standards of conduct. I guess the penalty would be having your cd key blocked, a la Blizzard.

  • Two words... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by hackwrench ( 573697 ) <hackwrench@hotmail.com> on Sunday July 06, 2003 @08:41PM (#6379958) Homepage Journal
    Crimson Knights

  • quote from the article (Score:5, Informative)

    by JavaLord ( 680960 ) on Sunday July 06, 2003 @08:44PM (#6379968) Journal
    Some players have reported online spats leaking out of the game players have hacked into others' accounts, posed as acquaintances and spread rumors about real people through instant messaging. Some have even reported identity theft.

    Sounds just like IRC. Stuff like this has been going on forever. It's not just in MMO games, it happens in FPS and Chat rooms too.

  • just bored? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by cpeterso ( 19082 ) on Sunday July 06, 2003 @09:10PM (#6380102) Homepage

    Sounds like the Sims Online is so boring, people need to make their own fun.
  • I have a difficult time with this one. I do think that games such as SIMS might have a negative effect on society, but at the same time these are adults that have their own minds (should know right from wrong, reality from fiction). I don't really know where to stand on this one.

  • No such Thing as bad publicity (Score:3, Interesting)

    by haydenth ( 588730 ) <haydenth AT msu DOT edu> on Sunday July 06, 2003 @09:54PM (#6380289)
    All this talk of the mob in TSO makes me want to play it! It seemed boring and repetitive before, now only if they made a Vice City Online....

  • Burst of laughter (Score:5, Funny)

    by Hackie_Chan ( 678203 ) on Sunday July 06, 2003 @09:54PM (#6380293)
    The couple say they have ransacked apartments, sent out their "troops" to urinate on others' lawns and once drove another player from the game.

    Am I the only one of burst out laughing on that one? How evil can you get, really? While you're dealing drugs in Grand Theft Auto and driving over innocent people in Carmageddon, you piss on lawns in The Sims Online!

  • A Group is its own Worst Enemy (Score:5, Informative)

    by Leknor ( 224175 ) on Sunday July 06, 2003 @10:19PM (#6380388)

    Clay Shirky wrote an excellent article about this online problem that has existed since before the internet when all there was were BBS titled: A Group is its own Worst Enemy [shirky.com]. It's a long and very good read about how not all members of a large group are equal and how the more important members need some way to "defend" themselves to protect the health of the group. Near the end of the essay he says:

    Now, when I say these are three things you have to accept, I mean you have to accept them.
    Because if you don't accept them upfront, they'll happen to you anyway. And then you'll end up writing one of those documents that says "Oh, we launched this and we tried it, and then the users came along and did all these weird things. And now we're documenting it so future ages won't make this mistake." Even though you didn't read the thing that was written in 1978.

    This sims problem is just another example of history repeating itself.

  • griefing in the sims (Score:3, Interesting)

    by bigbigbison ( 104532 ) * on Sunday July 06, 2003 @11:44PM (#6380779) Homepage
    Can anyone actually verify the kind of griefing that goes on in the sims online? I read the original article about it, but i read from some that the things they were saying in the article weren't possible. Has anyone actually experienced any of this alleged sims online griefing first hand, or is this a case of the media manufacturing a story?

  • Middle America meets MMO*s (Score:3, Insightful)

    by gad_zuki! ( 70830 ) * on Monday July 07, 2003 @12:01AM (#6380850)
    Isn't this always the case? Something exists for a small community and then it hits the mainstream, but the mainstream can't handle the sudden change.

    I'm afraid the sims players who can't handle a group of people pee'ing on their lawns will have to develop a thicker skin if they choose to play online games with strangers. If you think that's bad, wait until you play a PvP game.

    There's room for argument about what to do with harrasment, but that's up to the game admins and management to fix. If the sims is that bad, then quit. A simple vote with your dollar will get the message across.

    What really gets me is the suggestion of law to control MMO*s. Really now, its just a game.

    My cynical side sees the lowest common denominator, at least here in the US/Midwest area, as being extremely thin-skinned. A parent complains about something being "offensive" and the school board jumps through hoops to please them. An opinion that goes against the mainstream is now "traitorous" etc.

    I think the interconnecting the net does either through the web or online games will really force some people to simply grow up, for the lack of a better term, and realize that even virtual worlds cannot be completely controled or fall in-line with their Xtian-Judeo ethics. Its a big world out there, you're better off learning to deal with your problems in an intelligent way and develop tolerance than running to the first authority figure and complain about how people aren't being "nice."

    • I'm afraid the sims players who can't handle a group of people pee'ing on their lawns will have to develop a thicker skin if they choose to play online games with strangers. If you think that's bad, wait until you play a PvP game.

      I hate this sort of attitude.

      Why should people be obliged to put up with harrassment just because it's online?

      Is there some kind of rule somewhere that says the only sort of fun you're allowed to have online is antisocial PvP-style conflict?

      What really gets me is the suggest

      • "Hi there! Sorry I abused a bug, repeatedly killed you, looted your corpse, and generally harrassed you. I know you've logged thousands of hours on this MUD, made many close friends, had memorable experiences, collected objects to remind you of particular events or special people who have left. But hey! It's just a game. So don't get so uptight!"

        Would you like a tissue? I suppose if you were allowed to mandate that anyone that kills you, loots your corpse, or harrases you, all enemies in every video game
        • Hello,
          1. I am not American :-) I have never sued anyone in my life, not ever felt any desire to.
          2. The MUD I play on is policed by the admin.
          3. My point is not that I think the government should make laws regulating online interaction in these games. I don't really see that as workable (which government?). My point is that online games are often _more_ than "just games". In these cases, telling someone to "quit whining because it's just a game" is (a) offensive, and (b) just play incorrect.

          Hope this clears

  • DOSJ: Department of Sims Justice (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Babbster ( 107076 ) <aaronbabb&gmail,com> on Monday July 07, 2003 @12:02AM (#6380851) Homepage
    I'm surprised that they (Maxis/EA) didn't have the foresight to create something like a court system before even launching the game. Not one online game has ever had 100% success in getting rid of "griefing" type activities and that should have been acknowledged up front.

    The way I think this would work would be to give people the ability to "file suit" against one another in the game. One filing wouldn't trigger anything since the court system would subsequently be as overloaded as the one in real life. You could set a number (maybe 100?) so that once that number of suits was reached against a single person the court system would be activated. A judge would be selected from available GMs and they would inform both parties (the last to file suit would be the complainant [sp?] and of course the respondant) via e-mail to get their evidence (not to exceed 5k) together for trial and submitted two hours before the trial (trial date/time set at a time when both parties are typically online). Note that if either party doesn't show up to trial they would be subject to a one-week suspension without appeal.

    The GM would then review the evidence and decide (subject to review by their supervisor) if the case has merit. If it does, then an hour before trial the GM would send out jury requests to 50 potential jurors (these would be random and would not include anyone who has sued, or been sued by, either of the two parties to the suit; maybe even chosen from another server entirely). Out of those 50, the first 13 (no hung juries) to show up at the virtual courthouse (by selecting it from a menu) would be empaneled. These jurors would then read the documents (logs) submitted before trial.

    Once trial starts and both parties are present, each would have the opportunity to examine the other by asking five fairly simple questions. The judge would enforce a time limit of one minute for the question and the response. Each party could have one witness, allowed to participate in two questions each. The judge can then ask two questions of each party.

    Once all that's done, the jury votes for the complainant or the defendant. If the complainant loses, they are suspended for two days for wasting the court's time. If the defendant loses, their punishment would be decided by the judge based both on the current act and potentially any prior acts (lost suits), ranging from a one-week suspension to complete banning. A trial under these circumstances, by the way, should clock in at under an hour.

    By the way, disabling people's chat in the courtroom during this time (except for those asking or being asked questions) would be a given.

    Finally, a tag would be put on the defendant, win or lose. Their suit counter would drop in half so that fewer filings would be required over the next two months to activate a trial. Further, if someone loses three suits as a defendant they're banned.

    Doesn't all that sound like fun? Well, probably as much fun as The Sims Online is likely to get, anyway. :)

    • I think the basic idea here is a good one.

      To simplify a bit:

      If players could tag or vote another player as being a griefer, and enough of those tags add up to some threshold (such as a fixed number or high enough to get onto a "top 10" list), that tagged person should be monitored by the GMs and have an appropriate action taken when he strikes again.
      • That would work, too, and it would probably be more effective.

        My thought was simply that The Sims Online is supposed to be a virtual world/life and so it should have a more fully developed justice system. Fortunately, I would never get caught up in it since I have way too much going on in my real life as it is...playing with the new Diablo patch, Xbox, Gamecube, PS2...uhhh, that IS life, isn't it? :)

      • I love your idea, jafuser.
        In fact, look at this in a broader context;
        Many would agree that our (real world) judicial system is broken. Most would at least agree that it is imperfect. What an awesome venue to try out alternative systems, or tweaks to our current system?

        I think that for online "sim" type games, the consequences should be entirely in-game, provided the actions took place in-game (i.e. not hacking the game, etc).
        You win your "suit", you get some of their stuff. They get thrown in priso

  • The Solution (Score:2, Insightful)

    by redune45 ( 194113 )
    Instead of banning these people from the game pernamently, how about creating a special server for those who have more "creative" inclanations for the game.
    Would create a much more realistic enviroment for everyone who plays on those servers.
    • Think you have seen the whole nerd life? Take a look at redune.cc [redune.cc] It'll change you.

      Yeah, it changed me -- from curious, to bored, and then to angry that someone would put such a hype-filled tag on a link to such a weak website. It's mostly placeholders, where no doubt you'll add lots of life-changing content soon, and a few short articles suitable for any junior college speech class. Yawn.
    • --Congratulations! You have just described the plot of Matrix:Reloaded! :)
  • From the article:

    Psychologists who study online behavior say in-game spats and the visceral responses to them aren't surprising. With simulations becoming more lifelike, the line between real and fake is blurred.

    Supposing for just a second that this game has managed to shape up and get playable in the past few months, and supposing that any Sims game were an adequate simulation of real life (which it doesn't), then Maxis seems to have involuntarily exposed its captive audience to Baudrillard's ideas f

  • expected.. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by gl4ss ( 559668 ) on Monday July 07, 2003 @05:10AM (#6381672) Homepage Journal
    ok, so what is the sims online supposed to be? some semi-life simulation of a small city?

    take a small city, take away all authority and make everyone wear a changeable rubber face(that can be changed by just keying in your ssn), and make everyone's age between 16 and 30 years.

    so what happens? people run amok because there's no law system to set the limits, stupid people let them get tricked out of their ssn(login/pass in s.o.) and others after that appear as them doing stuff they wouldn't like.

    doh!

    the problem with games communities is that the game has to be few years old before all the dickheads get bored of it, and sims online is marketed to just those same dickheads(and some girls/women who are potentially clueless about defending themselfs in such virtual environment, and with sims online also that there is practically nil real skills that you could practice to become a better player apart, no extra careful tactic planning or timing the flag run and practicing to do the rocket jump at the right place, basically all you should do would be flirt around being all adorable).

    • Re:expected.. (Score:2, Insightful)

      by tiled_rainbows ( 686195 )
      heh heh, it sounds just like where i used to live unbtila coupla weeks ago. (UK/London/South/Peckham) If I'd had a lawn there someone woulda peed on it. My car got broken into a week after I bought it. My stereo got nicked from out of my bedroom while I was still in the bedroom (the guy ran off pretty quick, tho - not expecting a big hairy naked geek to suddenly jump out of bed and start screaming at him like that).

      Anyway,the point is, I dealt with it. I actually enjoyed living there. How rubbish do you ha
    • Well, TSO is basically just high school all over again, with everyone competing to be popular and mean kids teaming up to pick on the kids they perceive as weak. Look at the whole model they chose for the game: the whole thing is just a big popularity contest. I don't know about you guys, but I was one of the biggest geeks in MY high school. I didn't belong, I was picked on continuously, and I hated just about every minute of it. I wouldn't repeat high school for love or money, and I sure as HELL wouldn't P

  • Obligatory postal worker cliche (Score:3, Funny)

    by PeeweeJD ( 623974 ) on Monday July 07, 2003 @02:13PM (#6384253) Homepage
    "It's only a game but the people operating those little animated cartoons are real," said Holly Shevenock, a postal worker from Harrisburg, Pennsylania.

    Note to self: don't mess with the postal worker to much... She might finish that thought....

    "It's only a game but the people operating those little animated cartoons are real, and they bleed just like all those impatient people that all come in the post office at exactly 12:01 pm every day and want instantaneous service!!!! those same people are the ones that bitch when we raise the price of the stamp by a friggin penny to put more people at the counter!!! They make me so mad, I just want to kill something!!!

    we have all heard the end of that story one to many times...
  • Let me get this straight....

    People buy Sims online, and they don't like it, because things have gone wrong. People are being lewd, others are forming crime syndicates to extort from and abuse other users, the economy is falling apart. In short, its Sim-anarchy.

    I have a quick solution, quit the game. When you buy something, especially something involving a subscription, you have the option at any time to terminate that subscription and get on with your life. Just because you buy something and it sucks,
  • The obvious solution to me is not to make rules against it and kick people off(pissing off people who seem to me, to be playing within the limits of the game). Make the rules such that BEING a "hitman" negatively hurts YOU. If those redmarks are bad(I'm under the impression this is how you take hits on people), give players negative points for each red mark they make. If they dislike lots of people, it's probably not all those other people that are the problem. Make the red marks not count--or even coun
  • If you're of the type that believes that gangs exist because the people in them have no better options in their life, then think of the implications that might have for people in an online gang o.o

    Is the Sims Online really THAT boring?

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