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Games Entertainment Hardware

VIA/Apex Game Console Details Leaked 241

Posted by simoniker from the not-so-much-of-a-phantom? dept.
DammiTT writes "It seems that Apex are releasing a new PC-based 'console', using VIA components, later this year. It'll be announced during CES on January 8th." However, HardOCP already has some initial pictures and details up on its site, for this "ApeXtreme Personal Gaming Console and DVD Player", or PGC. According to this early, unconfirmed report, it's running a 1.4Ghz VIA chipset, the CN400, and "will be powered by a near-instant-on version of WinXP (embedded) with Windows Media Player, and... will have removable media in the form of DVD/CD." It comes with "a 40GB IDE hard drive... you can play DVD movies, audio and video CDs... [and] the price points will be at US$299 and US$399."
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VIA/Apex Game Console Details Leaked More

VIA/Apex Game Console Details Leaked

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  • Go Apex! (Score:4, Interesting)

    by pb ( 1020 ) on Tuesday January 06, 2004 @01:00AM (#7888267)
    I wonder if you could use this for a PVR too; Apex also makes one of those [amazon.com] now.

    Just get me one of these with a larger hard drive, and I'd be set...

  • Lemme at it. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by ActionPlant ( 721843 ) on Tuesday January 06, 2004 @01:00AM (#7888274) Homepage
    I've always been a fan of Apex, and this looks fun. Competition for the Xbox with configurable, customizable components? And support for PC games? I'm all for it. It's about time we see something that isn't proprietary.

    Damon,

    • Say it ten times fast: (Score:5, Insightful)

      by tepples ( 727027 ) <tepplesNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Tuesday January 06, 2004 @01:06AM (#7888319) Homepage Journal

      Competition for the Xbox with configurable, customizable components?

      Configurable, customizable components cause console crashes.

      Consoles "just work" because the games know the exact quirks of the fixed hardware they run on. Console games don't have the incompatibilities with video cards, incompatibilities with CPU models, and even incompatibilities with optical drives that PC games tend to have.

      • Good point. I think that's why [it looks like] Apex is talking with developers:

        We were also told that versions of games are being developed that you do not have to "load". Simply put the CD in and play, much like is used on other consoles.

        Sounds like they've got their bases covered.

        Damon,
      • Honestly, my friends X-Box crashes quite frequently, and I've heard that this quite common. For a console, this is completely unacceptable, but for some reason, people keep buying X-Boxes.
        • Common or not, mine's crashed occassionally; this can be very frustrating after an hour of intense RPG gameplay. You're about to save, wait for the cutscene, and the box crashes trying to load it. That IS unacceptable.

          And yes, I know. It's a Microsoft product. I'm the idiot for not saving.

          Damon,
      • Funny, I just got an xbox at christmas, and it just crashed for the first time today. Still better than desktop XP, but I hope this is a rare occurance. Just because it's standardised hardware, doesn't make it crash proof.

        (game was espn hockey 2k4, and it was caused by near as I can tell, excessive input from 2 controllers while loading a faceoff, but it could have been just random)
        • ... Not once but several times playing Rogue Squadron II. There is a known bug in the 'Hoth' scene that, if you happen to hit it, will lock the machine up solid.

          That said, I've never seen it crash on any other game - ever.

  • Did somebody just... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by inode_buddha ( 576844 ) on Tuesday January 06, 2004 @01:01AM (#7888278) Journal
    see a marketplace where modded X-boxes used to be? Makes me wonder....

  • Okay! Hate to be a cynic, but... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by wrinkledshirt ( 228541 ) on Tuesday January 06, 2004 @01:01AM (#7888282) Homepage
    Dumb question. Couldn't you pick up a full PC for that price by the time this thing comes out? Wouldn't that also give you a wider library of games?

    • There are good reasons! (Score:5, Informative)

      by Chordonblue ( 585047 ) on Tuesday January 06, 2004 @03:08AM (#7888977) Journal
      Okay, simple:

      1) This baby not only has Composite and S-Video, but also COMPONENT Out!

      2) Portability and suitability for the case design.

      3) Pre-assembled and parts guaranteed to work with each other.

      4) A single platform that can safely be written for. Because it is wide open, you could well see significant Linux development (PVR, games, etc.) without the usual PC worries over sound, gfx, or chipset drivers.

      Think of all the time a company like Valve has had to spend making sure that their games work on 'X' brand's gfx card. Then there are differing generations within that company's platform!

  • X this X that (Score:4, Insightful)

    by munch0wnsy0u ( 619737 ) on Tuesday January 06, 2004 @01:03AM (#7888297)
    One has to wonder when the completely overused and tired X will be phased out. I for one would be happier if the marketing people would find something just a tad more innovative. X is so overused - bleh!

    • Re:X this X that (Score:2, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Excuse me, but that is an extreme example of an exhilic exhortation. explication is expected. upon further examination; the letter deserves proper exaltation. it shall exact the proper amount of remuneration from your exchequer for such exaggeration whereas it exceeds the excellence expected it. the letter shall not go into exile due to your execrable exhortation . we see no exigency but exiguous explanation for your request. we expect expiation.
    • Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • VIA chipset is unstable (Score:3, Interesting)

    by superpulpsicle ( 533373 ) on Tuesday January 06, 2004 @01:03AM (#7888298)
    VIA has a tendency to make the most unstable chipset.

    I have owned 3 abit motherboards, 1 tyan and 1 ecs, all based on a VIA chipset. Only 1 out of 5 board could remain stable for more than a year. Yes, yes I installed the VIA-4-in-1 drivers and more or less the same OS.

    If you do the math, that's 20% stability in my experience.
    • The VIA record with the EPIA platform is rock-solid. VIA's record with Intel and AMD CPU platforms, on the other hand, leaves much to be desired. This new Entertainment Center computer is based on next-gen EPIA. This is going to rock. Hard.
    • I've owned about 8-10 Gigabyte motherboards with VIA chipsets and have never had a problem.

  • Suspend Button (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 06, 2004 @01:03AM (#7888301)

    I noticed that the unit has a Suspend Button instead of a Power Button....

    Gotta wonder what the uptime record is for Windows Empbeded....;-)

  • What will it play with? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by 9Nails ( 634052 )
    ...normally around a launch, the console boys start to talk about which companies have signed on to make games. And how many games will be available at launch. So, the static with the games has me wondering, is this a slimmed down PC that will play PC titles?! Or is this a console that will play proprietary console games? Or somewhere in-between?

  • Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Tuesday January 06, 2004 @01:04AM (#7888306)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • X-Box Killer? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by lynxuser ( 737950 )
    This sounds like it has the ability to become the X-Box killer, for gamign systems that run like PCs.
    Upgradable, running an OS (instead of a agaming OS), ability to put Linux on it. Yum. I can't wait for this to outshine PS2, GCN and Xbox.
    • XBox killer? This thing hasn't got a snowball's chance in Hell of being an XBox kill. Hell, I'd be willing to wager that a Dreamcast can kick this thing's ass on the gaming horsepower front.

      No. This isn't an XBox killer. It's a completely different machine. This is a DVD/PVR that can also play games. Not a game console that can also play DVDs.
  • Anyone else think that this system looks a little like one of the 3DO systems that came out in the early/mid 90's?

    Not the first gen 3DO, but one of the later ones ... I remember when I was in Japan then, there was like 3 or 4 different models of the 3DO from different companies.

    Aaron
  • DVD movies...

    Bringing the APEX style price of region free DVD players to region free DVD capable computers for the masses :)
  • I don't know if this new "game" system is a good idea, at least not from APEX. Yes, APEX has always been hacker friendly, but APEX has a pretty bad track record in the DVD player market; I had to swap out APEX DVD players four times before I got one that worked. Coupled this with the unreliability of the VIA chipset= "Emachines" 3 years ago, i.e. crap. Ironically, now Emachines has a really good quality and good value, for about the same price as this APEX game system. Even if they bundled this new game m

  • You know what this means? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Lord Kano ( 13027 ) on Tuesday January 06, 2004 @01:11AM (#7888346) Homepage Journal
    MAME CONSOLE BITCH!

    Seriously, I don't think it will take very long at all before some enterprising individual or group of individuals starts homebrewing their own Mame32 CD for this baby. Think about it. It has a special version of WinXP, that means access to the Win32 API. It will also mean standardized hardware.

    Something like that will make the system marketable to grandparents and uncles. People who have no interest in Max Payne or GTA VC just might want to play Burger Time or Space Invaders.

    Now, we just need for the owners of the copyrights to those old games to come to the table to negotiate licensing. Even if they don't I'm sure that something like this will sping up eventually anyway.

    LK
    • This has already been done on Xbox: http://mameox.sourceforge.net/
      • Good. That and more projects like it are exactly what we need. Enough of this kind of thing will make people stand up and take notice. If 2 or 3 million people show interest in this software that will make people think. "We've made $0.00 on our rights to "Burger Time" since 1984. If we can make 20 cents per copy of the rom sold in this emulator thingie that we don't have to contribute any work for, that might be a good thing."

        LK

    • Re:You know what this means? (Score:5, Funny)

      by Visceral Monkey ( 583103 ) on Tuesday January 06, 2004 @01:37AM (#7888511)
      What is this "copyright" you speak of?
    • People who have no interest in Max Payne or GTA VC just might want to play Burger Time or Space Invaders.

      Hate to burst the fun bubble, but if you just want to play Burger Time or Space Invaders, you can run MAME on a PSX, PS2, Dreamcast, Xbox, or hell, even a GBA. You don't need a 1.4 ghz anything unless you're trying to play some (relatively) recent games in MAME.
      • Yes but with all of those examples it means hacking the shit out of things (not to mention the expense). And God help you if you use a hacked ROM on Xbox, leave it activated and then go on Xbox Live. They kick your ass!

        Also, look at it this way; with a standardized and relatively open platform it might mean that a multitasking processor is finally good for something in a console.

  • ... As soon as I got this far.

    "It will be powered by a near-instant-on version of WinXP (embedded) with Windows Media Player.."

    Basically its a bog standard "Via Eden" PC with DRM and a shit name "ApeXtreme PCG" how naff! It'll probably be about as successful as the ill fated Ndrema.

    Might be fun to hack, but aside from that, its nothing special.

  • Consoles are all about polygon power, more than processor. I didn't see any mention of NVidia vs. ATI vs. the rest.
  • C'mon, a VIA processor? A SIS graphics chip? They are going to release a very underperforming system very late in the game, for very high price. Are they stupid???

  • Windows Update (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    How will I run Windows Update on this machine? Does the console/DVD player need to be activated with Microsoft or Apex when I buy it?

  • Doomed to failure (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 06, 2004 @01:37AM (#7888514)
    Full disclosure: I work for one of the Big Three console manufacturers. Still, I think the points I'm about to make stand by themselves just fine.

    1. The spec is not that great. Developments in graphics and CPU are mostly driven by the games industry (do you really need a Radeon 9600 to run Word?), and from what I've heard, all future consoles from the Big Three will have specs that make 1.4GHz look a little lame. Hell, 1.4GHz is only twice as fast as the Xbox processor. The minimum spec for next-gen consoles is an order of magnitude higher than their current ones. At 1.4GHz, it wouldn't be able to run many of today's PC games, let alone the ones to come 5 years hence (the length of the usual console lifecycle).
    2. "The OS will not be locked down." A critical key to the success of any console is publisher support, and publishers will not support a console that does not have reasonable copy-protection. If the OS is not locked down, then copy-protection goes out the window.

      An open OS also screws up the business model of all console manufacturers, which is to get royalties from licensed publishers. Why would publishers bother to get a license if anyone can write software for it?

    3. Who? Via may be famous for their PC hardware, but that is not the same thing as knowing how to run a games console company. They'll have to work very hard to convince publishers that they're a credible competitor for the Big Three. You could argue that Microsoft (and indeed Sony) were in the same position when they started, but I think they had enough money to throw at that problem.
    As the HardOCP article suggests, this could be a kick-ass DivX box, for watching all your media on a big TV. Well, I sure hope so, because you won't be playing many games on it.

    • Re:Doomed to failure (Score:3, Interesting)

      by ewhac ( 5844 )

      The minimum spec for next-gen consoles is an order of magnitude higher than their current ones.

      7 GHz!?!? I have serious difficulty believing that.

      "The OS will not be locked down." A critical key to the success of any console is publisher support, and publishers will not support a console that does not have reasonable copy-protection. If the OS is not locked down, then copy-protection goes out the window.

      Here's an experiment for you to try some time: When your next-gen console comes out, claim i

      • 7 GHz!?!? I have serious difficulty believing that.

        The next generation consoles aren't due until Christmas season 2005. 7+ ghz will be a reality then, unless you doubt Moore's Law will continue (and I have yet to meet a serious computer engineer working in the field who doesn't think it will hold up for at least the next few years).

        The consoles of that period will probably use a lesser part for price reasons (7 ghz will cost approximately $400 at that time, given current trends), but the original pos

      • Re:Doomed to failure (Score:3, Insightful)

        by cgenman ( 325138 )
        The minimum spec for next-gen consoles is an order of magnitude higher than their current ones.

        7 GHz!?!? I have serious difficulty believing that.

        No, an order of magnitude overall. The PS2, for example, has many bottlenecks. Inadequate RAM for one, and tortured processor scheduling... Not to mention that terribly slow DVD drive. The PS2 was released in Japan in the beginning of '00. If Moore's law holds up, that means a system released in the second half of 2004 should be 8 times as powerful.

        Here'
    • Hell, 1.4GHz is only twice as fast as the Xbox processor. The minimum spec for next-gen consoles is an order of magnitude higher than their current ones.

      I call bullshit, troll, or somewhere in between.

      You're telling me the next gen consoles are all planning on a 7ghz CPU? They better not be planning on releasing until 2007 or so, if that's the case, and they want to keep their consoles under $300.

    • Re:Doomed to failure (Score:3, Insightful)

      by -tji ( 139690 )
      You're thinking in terms of the current console makers - selling the console for a loss, locking it down, and raping the consumer on the games.

      At $300 to $400, Apex/VIA are not losing money on the hardware. These are two companies with a lot of experience in dirt cheap manufacturing.

      They can make a healthy profit on getting the hardware out there. Maybe they can also get some game licensing revenue, or maybe they avoid that altogether and see if the PC game makers will do a trivial port to this platf
    • with features like divx jukebox this looks more oriented towards the home theatre enthusiast more than anything.
    • This is a great product idea. It is desirable whether or not it ever gets outside publisher support.

      1. Its not priced as a loss leader, so VIA/Apex can make $ off the hardware.

      2. It doesn't bondage the consumer with restrictive wrappings, so you can run linux, mame, internet communication tools, custom media players, and PC games.

      3. The processor/graphics chip is actually good enough to run most existing games (low rez), and is even suited to run dx9 games better than existing low end ATI/nvidia card

  • Not an X-Box killer (Score:3, Insightful)

    by stephenisu ( 580105 ) on Tuesday January 06, 2004 @01:48AM (#7888572)
    With Microsoft supplying the OS, this is most definately going to fail as a console system. If it ever got popular, Microsoft would kill it off.

  • Screw games, give me a DiVX player (Score:3, Informative)

    by gad_zuki! ( 70830 ) on Tuesday January 06, 2004 @01:57AM (#7888610)
    The suggestion that this could be used to play divx encoded video is very tantalizing. $300 for something that could replace my gamecube, DVD player, and the cabling/SVCDs I make would be very well worth it.

  • Re: (Score:2, Redundant)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 )
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • I dont see the Lindows CEO stepping up on this one though hehe...

    But if you could run Linux on it you would be able to run all ALL your games on it.. From the Atari to the Xbox..

    I'm definately interested..

    Would be nice if companies worked to create a console standard (Powerful and simple) and then made profits selling games.
  • So, whatever happened to the great vapour game machine [slashdot.org]?

  • Say Hello To An XBox Subsidy (Score:4, Interesting)

    by blueZhift ( 652272 ) on Tuesday January 06, 2004 @02:35AM (#7888833) Homepage Journal

    When I read about this and some of the comments, the thought suddenly came to mind that if this sells at all, Microsoft is a big winner. Why? Because you know MS is not giving the embedded Windows XP away for free and since they aren't making this thing, every sale is money in the bank for them. And the embedded XP is probably similar to what they use in the XBox, so they get a little more return on that investment.

    As for VIA, this doesn't make much sense as a games console. Usually a console maker takes a loss on the console hardware itself (at least at first) and makes up the losses on game royalties. PC games don't sell anywhere near the number that console games do, plus a PC game publisher pays no royalties to anyone. As it is unlikely that the market will support another proprietary format, games are not likely going to make VIA any money.

    Since VIA is in business to make money, one can only conclude that they plan to make a profit on the hardware itself. Being able to play some PC games and do PC-like things then becomes just another marketing bullet point. This is also support by the fact that the thing looks like a more or less standard DVD player. This strategy can work if they keep the manufacturing costs down and do a good job of marketing. My final guess is that this will be marketed primarily in Asia where PC penetration is low which would make a device with some PC functionality more attractive. And the you can bet that games like Starcraft and other titles wildly popular in places like South Korea and China will run on the system without a hitch.

  • It must be the shoes! (Score:3, Interesting)

    by quintessencesluglord ( 652360 ) on Tuesday January 06, 2004 @03:02AM (#7888944)
    Considering that Xbox and PS? Will be shooting it out for the top tier market, and Nintendo will pretty much retain their core market from their various franchises; their could very well be a place for the Apex.

    Cost of developing for any of the big three consoles is pretty much through the roof, enough to where any of the smaller publishing houses would never have a chance to develop for the current console market. This has translated into stale games overall... I own over 50 PS1 games. I own less than 10 PS2.

    Given that Apex could never hope to compete with Sony head to head, they might be able to carve a niche market by having a more diverse creative pool, lower priced games, less cost of development, and being able to take more risks as far new games are concerned.

    You wouldn't need tremendous hardware to do that, and since Apex already has positive cash flow from their other ventures; they can ride out building a user base.

    All they need is one killer game that is unique to their system. All the other things it can do would just be icing on the cake.

    This could very well be a giant killer.
  • Okay, let's think about this for a moment. You are going to try to compete in a market in which the 800 pound gorilla is competing. Do you really want to paying for that gorilla's bananas? Which is to say, it is damn foolish of them to use Windows as their OS because MS can sink their boat at a moments notice if it behooves them.
  • USB jacks in front for joysticks, maybe now we can finally get Capcom to port something newer than Street Fighter Alpha 2 to the PC. Or how about a local release of the 640x480 Guilty Gear X port. Still, who in their right mind would cough up $300 for a PC in a box without Microsoft buying up developers left and right to ensure some good games?

    I'm sure 'porting' games to it won't be too tough, at least until Microsoft starts changing APIs around to muck things up for them. Seriously, the only thing more
  • will be powered by a near-instant-on version of WinXP


    will it also include a near-instant-on BSOD?

  • Looks like they're trying to bring back the Nuon [nuon-dome.com]. The Nuon played DVD's, CD, and games. An SDK was released and a few homebrew apps have been released for it, too. Maybe this has a better chance of survival than the Nuon did, but it'll be an uphill battle. The guys at VMLabs learned the hard way that consumers and developers both hate machines that aren't quite PCs and aren't quite consoles.

    D
  • In my household, I see this being used more for a cheap media jukebox for playing DivX, MP3, OGG, or XviD than anything else. The other main use I would have for it would be as an emulation machine - MAME, Atari800Win, Stella, JNES, WinUAE, STeem, WinSTon, and VisualBoy Advance to name a few. You can find most of those for a modified XBox, but it is a hassle since they would have been created with an XBox Developers Kit and so couldn't be distibuted except through unofficial means. For the latest and greate

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