Slashdot Log In
On Going Pro At Magic - The Gathering
Posted by
simoniker
on Wed Feb 04, 2004 05:49 PM
from the cheetos-references-abound dept.
from the cheetos-references-abound dept.
VonGuard writes "It's been 12 years since Magic: the Gathering was released, by WotC, and the game is now six million players strong. The East Bay Express has a long-form piece narrating the trials and tribulations of a man who's trying to turn pro at this addictive trading card game . Richard Garfield is always demanding the mind athletes be treated with the same respect as physical athletes. As you can see in the story, however, we're not quite there yet."
This discussion has been archived.
No new comments can be posted.
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
Full
Abbreviated
Hidden
Loading... please wait.
Pro? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Pro? (Score:5, Insightful)
Magic: The Gathering isn't a role-playing game, it's a competitive card game with definite winning and losing states (utterly unlike most pen-and-paper RPGs). Going pro at magic is thus much more akin to being a professional poker/chess/(other competitive intellectual game of your choice) player than acting, which it shares little if anything in common with.
Parent
Re:Pro? (Score:2)
Maybe I should pick some of these cards up sometime and have a go at it...
Re:Pro? (Score:4, Informative)
If you want to play in the tournaments, you have to spend a fortune as there's a new expansion every 3-4 months, and expansions are removed from the tournament cycle with regularity. To stay competitive, you have to keep buying new cards. I had a friend who played tournaments and he'd buy two BOXES of booster packs every time a new expansion came out. That's about $200 I think. Maybe more now. It's a complete money pit, but hey, if you have fun and can afford it, good luck to you.
I used to collect the cards, have over 6000 of them. The aforementioned friend used to send me his doubles of his common cards (there's common, uncommon and rare. The rare cards go for a quite a price in some cases. I have single cards worth over $10). I used to wind up with 6-8 of each common. That was after he had taken enough for his deck building needs.
It's definitely fun to play, but bear in mind a lot of kids play it too. Finding mature players may be a trick.
Parent
Re:Pro? (Score:2, Funny)
$10? Somewhere at home I have a little box that contains a Library of Alexandria, 4 Mana Drains, and a Time Walk. (My Mox Sapphire disappeared during a pro tour qualifier a few years ago)
$10? Pshaw.
Re:Pro? (Score:2)
Brick&Morter. ~100.
Re:Pro? (Score:3, Insightful)
And Draft, widely regarded as the most skill-intensive format, doesn't even require you to own any cards; you sit down at a table with seven other people, pass packs around while you each take a card in turn, and then make decks from the cards you pull.
The only format where price matters and where $300 cards are legal is Type 1, the format that inclu
And such a well-written article, too... (Score:3, Funny)
Yep, those are definitely the words of a great journalist. It gives the whole thing amazing authority. ;)
Other choice quotes (Score:2)
Can you imagine it? (Score:5, Funny)
Athletes of the Mind (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Athletes of the Mind (Score:2)
Obviously the most expensive deck isn't a guarantee of a win, but it will let you place well. How is that unlike any other sport on earth, though? Team sports (the team that can afford the best players will generally do damn well), bobsledding (He who can afford the best engineered sled will do really well), any sport involving individual strength/speed (he who can afford the latest "one-step ahead
Re:Athletes of the Mind (Score:2)
Re:Athletes of the Mind (Score:2, Informative)
Expensive sport (Score:3, Interesting)
The only games I could still bring myself to play are the 1 pack tournaments. Everyone gets one brand new pack of cards, and thats all you have to play with. This forced you to think on the fly and develop strategy as you drew cards because you couldn't set up the deck beforehand. Quite a fun way to play (allthough you still had to buy a new pack every time you wanted to play it)
Re:Expensive sport (Score:2)
Wow, that sounds really like the variable reward theory that Skinner came up with. Read up on Skinner Boxes to find out about it. It's the science behind psychological addiction. Everquest does this too which you can read a paper on here [nickyee.com].
That's why I stop
From the article... (Score:4, Funny)
Boy, can this sucker write! New York Times, here he comes!
Re:From the article... (Score:2)
throw new LanguageDilutionException(); (Score:4, Funny)
Mind athletes?? The last time I checked, an Athlete [reference.com] is someone who required good physical attributes in order to be sucessful. The term "Mind Athlete" makes no sense whatsoever [reference.com].
Lets call these people what they are...gamers. Being a gamer is nothing to be ashamed of, and I would love to see more professional gaming, and more pro gamers. This goes for both the electronic and "pencil and paper" variety.
But come on people, is Gary Kasparov a "Mind Athelete"? Maybe gatorade can come out with a new marketing campaign:
"When you're trying to decide between bishop to R3 or a queen gambit, your body depletes essential minerals and nutrients..."
Re:throw new LanguageDilutionException(); (Score:5, Interesting)
You might want to consider your own references [reference.com] before calling a definition incorrect:
3. One fitted for, or skilled in, intellectual contests; as, athletes of debate.
Parent
Re:throw new LanguageDilutionException(); (Score:2)
Re:throw new LanguageDilutionException(); (Score:2)
Interesting that someone who would complain about the usage of language would have a subject that tries to convey an idea in code.
Wallet: The Emptying? (Score:3, Funny)
(Note, I did use to play this game, so this is not a troll. It's a great game, I even won some local competitions, but one day I woke up and didn't want to play it any more. Just no urge whatsoever. Perhaps I should give it another go. Wallet: The Emptying *is* pretty accurate though).
MtG is not a good example of a mind sport (Score:4, Interesting)
Magic the Gathering, on the other hand, is deplored by some fundamentalist christians for the pictures it uses, known perhaps more for its business side than its academic side, and continually changing the dynamic of the game.
Don't get me wrong, it's already harder for an intellectual athlete to get funding to go to international meets for the more traditional academic competitions, and a local basketball trophy will usually be more proudly displayed than an international medal even for the better accepted intelectual athletics. I just think MtG is likely to generate even less respect.
But it is a good mindsport (Score:4, Insightful)
This game is deep, and in a much less artificial way than, for example, being able to read out 50 moves in a go game. That's not to say that it is as deep as Go, just that it is deep in a way that is both more interesting to the average player and more likely to be watched by the average viewer (in this country).
Of course they don't teach it to children... Children are so interested in learning about it that they teach themselves. That kind of interest draws quite a large business side, an unfortunate but expected side-effect. And there was a time when Christian Fundamentalists decried all card games, including Bridge, as the devil's work.
The Olympics are not the be-all-end-all of what can be considered a worthy pursuit. The Nagano Olympics had ski shooting. Ski shooting. I rest my case.
Parent
Let me get this straight... (Score:2)
Ladies and gentlemen...the Man Who's Never Grown Up!
Re:Let me get this straight... (Score:2)
:)
As usual... (Score:2)
Bear in mind, not all collectible card games suffer from "rich kid wins" syndrome. Speicifically, there was a truly strategic (and tactical) CCG which was introduced in 2001: Z-G [boardgamegeek.com],
respect vs. buying a ticket (Score:3, Insightful)
Is it challenging? Yes. Does it deserve respect? Sure it does. Is it entertaining to watch? Hell no it isn't!
demographics (Score:2)
The Magic Pro Tour is an Illusion (Score:5, Informative)
99.995% of those who attempt or think they can make a living playing Magic, are dreaming. The prizes are very top-heavy, so that only the top 4 players per Pro Tour event (6 per year) can even hope to turn a decent profit.
And that's only for one year! Next year they have to manage an insane finish once again. Rarely do "name" players actually make repeat Top 4's in Pro Tours. I could count on 1.5 hands the number of players that are making a good living (i.e. 30K/yr) off this game.
I even made a nice little chart: http://goa_entranced.tripod.com/pic/protour.jpg (damn filter refuses an underscore in the URL. [tripod.com])
And yet, there are hundreds of thousands of players who chase the illusion of making a living playing Magic.
You've got to hand it to Wizards, they have hit a goldmine of addicts.
It's an illusion, but I still have fun (Score:3, Insightful)
Barriers to entry (Score:2)
Aye. And it can be done, providing there's enough demand for it and the hobby isn't too expensive to pursue. I started programming as a hobbyist, and because my hobby was cheap (a low end PC and the odd O'Reilly book) I was able to survive as a freelancer and develop my skills until I was good enough to get a regular coding job. (It helped that the job market was in better shape then).
My other hobby, DJing, has more in c
Re:The Magic Pro Tour is an Illusion (Score:2)
What surprises me... (Score:4, Funny)
And I read the whole thing.
Fair enough (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm surprised they haven't gotten to the point that there's a 1 colourless rare artifact with T:Defeat target opponent.
That's what stopped me playing the game really. Although every now and then I'll play multiplayer with a group of friends. Some of the guys use proxies, I didn't like that to start with but proxies are definately better than having everyone sink bucketloads of money into new cards all the time. And multiplayer games are a lot more relaxing than sweaty duels with nerds who consider winning more important than life itself!
Re:Fair enough (Score:2)
You seem to be a little out of the loop. Wizards of the Coast stopped that trend about 4 years ago, when most games came down to a coin flip due to the excessive power and synergy of the cards they printed. They realized their mistake, and all sets released after that have a pretty similar power level. They sell cards to tournament players mainly because they artificially disallow cards that haven't beem printed in 2 years from the tournaments.
I have to agree with you in your other point though: multiplaye
Against the SuperBowl? (Score:2)
I'm a big role player, and while I can see the LARP crossover, I've never understood why people confuse this with RPGs. Ditto for computer games. Sure there's plenty of general geek crossover, but they are very different. I've watched the past decade as 'gamer' went from someone who can wield d4s as caltrops to somebody who is up on the latest PS2 release.
Don't misinterpret me - card games are a l
Re:Against the SuperBowl? (Score:2)
--
Evan
Re:Against the SuperBowl? (Score:2)
Team Challenge - June 7, 2000, 2:30 PM
Pro Tour New York - June 20, 2000, 2:30 PM
US Nationals - July 7, 2000, 2:00 PM
US Nationals Draft Challenge - July 20, 2000, 2:00 PM
World Championships - September 6, 2000, 1:00 & September 29, 2000, 1:00 PM
Pro Tour New York - October 24, 2000, 1:30 PM
Pro Tour Chicago - December 20, 2000, 1:00 PM
I've also seen some places where they said the world championships aired on ES
Re:Against the SuperBowl? (Score:2)
--
Evan
Expensive (Score:2, Informative)
Since everyone has access to the same cards it becomes clear who is good at making decks, of course there are problems with people who simply copy the decks of pro's and the game isn't actually deep enough to render that tactic invalid. Good decks basically exp
Magic is not 11 (Score:2, Informative)
Wizards of the Coast celebrated Magic's 10th anniversary at GenCon last year. From their 10th anniversary page [wizards.com]:
In 1993, Magic: The Gathering created the trading card game category. Today, it's the best trading card game in the world, enjoyed by over six million players.
Re:I can't believe (Score:2, Insightful)
Yes, there is an element luck involved, but would you say that all that poker is is a game of luck? Of course not. The same applies to magic. The reason that certain players [wizards.com] (kai budde, jon finkel, etc.) consistantly place well at pro tours and grand prix is because they are simply the best there are at the game. period. they dedicate themselves to the game (some people take a year off from work/school to "go
Re:I can't believe (Score:2)
not to mention that expensive cards != ( for all you vb6 guys) good at the game.
!= is not valid in VB6. You're thinking of <>.
Re:I can't believe (Score:3, Insightful)
Your comment about "It is a
Re:I can't believe (Score:2, Funny)
Main reason I've collected the cards though is for the art.
Re:I can't believe (Score:2)
Depends on the environment you play in. Hell, even the basic game rules have changed to a great degree since you were playing. Whole new ball of wax. If you think skill doesn't determine who wins, you pick any deck you want, I'll play you with one of my cheapie decks and we'll see how fast you win.
Re:Rich Kid Wins syndrome (Score:2)
You must be new here.
Re:Rich Kid Wins syndrome (Score:2)