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GameCube (Games)

Nintendo Revolution Rumours Emerge 136

Posted by Zonk from the next-gen-all-the-place dept.
In more next-gen console news, ComputerandVideoGames.com has rumourmongering info on the new Nintendo console. Interesting bits like gyroscope sensing controllers and an online service make for intriguing ideas, but no details yet on what's going to make this console a revolution. From the article: "And what's revolutionary about Revolution? The inside source claims that talking about that "would get him into too much trouble" ... He is quoted as saying: "if you think too hard you'll never guess what it is. It's nothing 'new', technically speaking. It's just something that hasn't really been applied to videogames yet."
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Nintendo Revolution Rumours Emerge More

Nintendo Revolution Rumours Emerge

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  • hrmm maybe its a ... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Naikrovek ( 667 ) <jjohnson.psg@com> on Monday January 24, 2005 @02:02PM (#11457726)
    thumb trackball.

    kind of a d-pad + the analog control into one...

    just a thought.
  • One of the rumors mentioned in the article:

    Motion and tilt-sensing gyroscopes will be used in the controllers.

    Great! Why don't we go and encourage those annoying people who love to swing their controller around even though it makes no difference. Well now it will! I wonder how this would be incorporated into a fighting game...

    Actually, just thinking about doing a barrel roll in a flying game makes me want to try this out, silly a feature as it seems.

    • Re:Gyroscopes (Score:2, Interesting)

      by ZephyrXero ( 750822 )
      It's really about time for someone to innovate (at least a little) in the controller field. There really haven't been any improvements since the N64 controller, except for analogue buttons, and we all know how amazing those were...lol. Games are getting far to complex for the simple controllers we use. It's no fun having to remember what all 22 buttons on your gamepad do...
      • Microsoft had a Sidewinder control pad shaped a bit like the Xbox pad (long before the Xbox) that had a solid state orientation sensor in it.

        I played a few demo games with it at the store where I worked. It was very annoying to use. I'm glad that innovation went away.
        • I know two people who own the Freestyle Pro. They say it's worthless for anything but the two Motocross Maddness games, the first of which was bundled with the pad.
          Though Nintendo would probably equip the pad with better standard controls (the Freestyle Pro's dpad sucked beyond imagination) and seems to use much more advanced gyro sensors. It's apparently the same tech as used in the GBA games Wario Ware Twisted! and Yoshi's Universal Gravitation.
      • Well, I like analouge triggers which the N64 pad didn't had (they're good for racing games), although they're contampary to the N64 pad and not a later creation (the Sega Saturn 'NiGHTS' Pad had them).

        But I'm not quite sure of the point of analouge (face) buttons either, but I haven't really used a game that uses them, so I don't know how good they are.
    • One of the Kirby games for GBC had a tilt sensor built into the cart. Kirby was a ball, and you tilted the GBC to make Kirby go into the end-of-level hole.
    • I'd like to see a Mario Kart game using the gyroscope feature. You could alter the existing power slide mechanics by using left and right tilt to slide in a turn.
  • Perhaps Nintendo will decide that in order to gain back market share it needs a revolution in the type of games they release.

    The latest Nintendo console was fun to play on, but even given the cheap price I could find very little software that I wanted to buy. Everything halfway decent that got offered was either first-party mascots or available on another console. To me, this is really the way Nintendo needs to revolutionize itself.
    • I agree, I hope Nintendo doesn't become so revolutionary that it discourages companies from producing games. Nintendo's seems to have the philosophy of "we're so far ahead, why can't everyone see this" which only seems to single them out in a bad way. It's like when I was in high school and thought I was much more interesting than most people, and I acted accordingly. It didn't make me cooler, it just made me look stupid while everyone else was having fun. I love nintendo, but they should learn from my

  • fuck registering (Score:2, Informative)

    by whiteSanjuro ( 693864 )
    REVOLUTION RUMOURS RAMPANT, NINTENDO SILENT

    Another spurt of speculation about Nintendo's next-gen console splashes onto the net. Full details and stunningly predictable Nintendo response inside

    10:47 A fat bundle of Nintendo Revolution speculation has belly-flopped onto the internet, causing fansites across the world to spontaneously combust with excitement.

    According to hazy and totally unofficial reports, Nintendo's next-gen console will come broadband-enabled with an online service in the works, f

    • DDR (Score:1)

      by tepples ( 727027 )

      The 'revolutionary' aspect of Revolution is also hinted at - "if you think too hard you'll never guess what it is."

      I know what it is: the return of the Power Pad [angelfire.com]! Without it, you can't Dance Dance on the Revolution.

    • I also dislike registering, although I didn't need to to read this article.
    • My guess, based on the "touching is good but feeling is better" clue, is that it will be a highly advanced sound algorithm. Remember those old stands at attractions where you put on the headphones and listened as someone cut your hair, you were in a race, etc. And the sound was so amazing that it actually felt like you were getting your hair cut, wind was blowing in your face, etc. I would guess something like this along with headphones.

      It will be interesting to find out, though!
  • It's nothing 'new', technically speaking. It's just something that hasn't really been applied to videogames yet.

    Well, this may be hit or miss. Nintendo's "innovations" have either been huge successes or horrible failures. Some of these innovations include:

    1. A controller that fits around your hand and senses movement
    2. A system with a visor screen display that created a "true" 3D display
    3. A wireless controller that just flat out worked
    4. A dual-display portable with a touch-screen

    My bet is on something with

    • Re:Who knows what to expect (Score:3, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Your #1 is wrong, Mattel(tm) made the Power Glove, not Nintendo.
      • Mattel(tm) made the Power Glove, not Nintendo.

        Should have done my homework, because you are most certainly correct. However, I think my confusion is understandable since it was heavily hyped in Nintendo's (actually Universal's) feature length ad^H^Hfilm "The Wizard".

    • They were also the first game company to feature and analogue pad and force feedback in a controller.
      • There are no force feedback controllers sold by nintendo - hell I'm not aware of any sold FOR any nintendo systems. You're thinking of vibration feedback, which was first provided (AFAICT) by pagers, though Nintendo brought it to video games :P
    • There ain't nothing wrong with Force Feedback (rumble) in controllers. Games is makes a huge difference on are normally FPS' and Racing games, so you can actually feel things that are happening that you can't see. Another great example that comes to mind is how excellently is was used in Metal Gear Solid, all these years ago. That being said, some games, like Rallisport challenge, where it's rumbling the whole time due to the road surface, can lead to a little numbness from time to time.
      • There ain't nothing wrong with Force Feedback (rumble) in controllers.

        I wasn't saying that there's anything wrong with Forced Feedback. I was playing Flight Simulator at a friend's house with the Microsoft FF sidewinder joystick, and I must say, it made the experience more realistic and enjoyable (but at the time it wasn't worth the $120 premium over the non-FF sidewinder joystick). The difference with that is that the FF on the joystick was fairly detailed, which included resistance in certain directio

    • Actually they have already done voice-recognition, see Mario Party 6.

  • Feeling is better (Score:3, Funny)

    by Winterblink ( 575267 ) on Monday January 24, 2005 @02:19PM (#11457942) Homepage
    Hasn't this already been proven [gamegirladvance.com] by games like Rez and sites like GGA? :D

  • My thoughts (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Apreche ( 239272 ) on Monday January 24, 2005 @02:32PM (#11458139) Homepage Journal
    I've said it before, but I'll say it again. Here's what my imagination "predicts" about the revolution.

    Revolution = wireless DS hub + broadband ethernet.

    16 people with DSes sit around a revolution in one city and play on a team against 16 people sitting around a revolution with DSes in another city. a 16vs16 person game where everyone has two screens and a controller. Also the revolution hooks up to a tv to provide the "big screen" for the whole team to see.

    And that's taking it to the extreme. If you just keep it simple with something like internet enabled smash brothers with a new innovative control scheme you've already struck gold.

    Nintendo is making the video game hardware that is truly revolutionary by innovating the game interface. They started by inventing the first real gamepad (the plus) and now the're taking it a step further. The only problem is that they do not make software that takes full advantage of the potential of the platform. And the quantity of software that takes advantage is not enough. I think it is because they are very protective of their dev kits, unlike Sony and MS who are very open in this area.
    • That sounds fun, but according to the article the revolution won't connect to the DS. Then again, the article does question its source. Or, maybe the next gameboy will also feature wireless.
    • "16 people with DSes sit around a revolution in one city and play on a team against 16 people sitting around a revolution with DSes in another city."

      There are still people bitching about "having to buy four GBAs" to play Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles. Do you really think this idea would fly?
      • You dont have to buy 4 GBA, it's the people who play with you who also need a GBA, and considering the HUGE amount of other games for the GBA I cant think of a reason not to own one.
    • Yeah, sounds great for single player titles.

      Only about 25% of my gamecube library even supports multiplayer. The ones that do are some of the best times to be had on a console, but there's still a lot of Mario Sunshines and Eternal Darknesses and Splinter Cells that would not happen on what you're drscribing as an essentially multiplayercentric system.
  • A light weight headset for VR?

    nothing really new... not really applied to gaming.. REVOLUTION (ie full freedom of movement) GYROSCOPES...

    hello?

    That is my thinking.

  • Hard Drive! (Score:2, Interesting)

    by ZephyrXero ( 750822 )
    I think the most interesting tidbit in this rumor is that the Revolution may actually come with a built in hard drive! Sony's already said they're not going to have one, and Xbox 2 is still iffy on it. I think the hard drive was the best feature of the Xbox and I'm very glad to see Nintendo having one too (if it's true).

    • I am still trying to figure out exactly why having a HDD in a console is a good idea.

      Ripping Music: Nifty but nonessential and basically gimmicky.

      Unlimited Saves: Nice but again a Mem Card works 90% as well and is portable

      Game Patches: Ok, but I always worry that will fall down the slippery slope of devs shipping buggy games much like the PC world.

      Game Content Updates: Well, that's pretty cool I suppose.

      I can see why it's a fine idea, but nothing revoltionary or indeed even essential. So what am I m

      • "Why is the HDD the 'best' feature of the XBox?" Cause it allows people to copy games earier!
      • I'd have to say it's because it makes hacking (both ligitimate and otherwise) MUCH more practical. The Xbox took off as a hackers machine mostly because of the HDD. It went to being a virtual doorstop to many to being one of the most affordable computers around (and snazzy formfactor, too!). I intend to give major consideration points to which company(s) decide to put HDDs in their next-gen systems. Is it a clinching factor? No, but it's still a chunk of browie points.
        • Yep, I have two moded xboxes and have only ever bought 4 games.

          One xbox I use to watch digital media, the second is employed as a car OGG player :) Previously I had spent a small fortune on a neo car jukebox, and its a complete piece of trash, so for about half the cost of the car jukebox I got a used xbox, mod chip, and small 3" LCD screen and stuck it in my car :)

  • SPOILERS: They're full of shit (Score:5, Interesting)

    by mcc ( 14761 ) <amcclure@purdue.edu> on Monday January 24, 2005 @02:40PM (#11458248) Homepage
    Think about it for a minute. This is so generic as to not really say anything; meanwhile, you could have made something up and posted it on some message board, and ComputerandVideoGames.com would have printed it, as would have slashdot. This particular rumor as near as I can gather originated from a forum post at n-sider citing a forum post on a nintendo.com forum citing "a source". Well then.

    Meanwhile, if we look at what we actually know, this set of rumors has two small details that don't seem that they could be true. So putting aside "sources", here's what we can predict about the stuff in this article based on what Nintendo's actually said and done:
    1. Gyroscopic tilt-sensing control is the most persistent rumor about the Nintendo Revolution (get it? "Revolution"?) and probably the most reasonable. Nintendo's apparently made some decent sized investments [gyration.com] in that area, and this probably isn't just for Wario Ware Twisted [google.com]. However this likely will not be the only unique feature of the Revolution.

    2. The Nintendo DS WILL have connectivity with the Nintendo Revolution. We know this because Nintendo said so. Shortly before E3, shortly before the "it's a handheld with two screens" thing was announced, Nintendo explicitly said "we will be announcing at E3 a product which is neither a new Gamecube nor a new Game Boy, but will be able to connect wirelessly BOTH to the next gamecube and the next game boy". This is a paraphrase and I don't have a link, sorry; it might be possible to find one by looking through gaming news archives around that date. But this is the main problem with this set of rumors this slashdot story links; Nintendo probably wouldn't go back on a statement like that, and there isn't a clear reason why they would. If they don't, though, there's one obvious side-effect: The Revolution will have 802.11. There's no other way to connect to the DS.

    3. Since if Nintendo keeps their word about the DS, 802.11 will be in the Revolution, well, that's out-of-the-box broadband potential right there. However we can't guess anything about how Nintendo will make use of this, if at all. All we really know about the online in the gamecube is what Reggie Fuls-Aime said in an interview a month or two ago (sorry, no link), where he put forth a very cryptic statement in which he said "online is a failed business model", then a couple sentences later said the next Nintendo console would have "long distance" and "community" gameplay features. So don't get your hopes up on anything, but expect whatever the internet features in the N5 are, they won't look like Xbox Live. What I'd almost suspect is that they're going to pull an online plan out of their ass and then try to insist on0 calling it something other than "online" (cuz, see.. it's wireless.. since there aren't any "lines".. get it).

    4. The bit in the rumor about HD-DVD discs is incredibly unlikely. Nintendo hasn't yet announced who will be making the optical discs for the Revolution, but most likely it will be matsushita/panasonic. Matsushita manufactured the optical drive for the Gamecube, and it seems extremely likely Nintendo would go back to them for the optical drives for the N5; one, the drives worked extremely well, and are the chief reason why the Gamecube is the only console of this generation without a piracy problem; two, they'll probably have to go back to Matsushita if they want the Revolution's drive to be backward compatible with the Gamecube. The reason this is important is that Matsushita is one of the primary driving companies behind Blu-Ray. So most likely, the N5 will use proprietary deformed blu-ray discs, the same way that the Gamecube used little deformed DVD discs.
    • What I don't get is why they would bother to use gyroscopes. Analog devices sells 0-2 and 0-10G MEMS accelerometers, and the 2G model is very high resolution given an adequate sampling rate. Each chip is 2-axis, so you would have a redundant axis for calibration.
      • The "gyros" in Wario-Ware Twisted, Kirby Twist-and-Tumble, and the new Yoshi game, are all accelerometers. They've done quite a lot of business with Analog Devices, in fact, that's who they get their accelerometers from...

        It's almost definitely accelerometers, and not "gyroscopes". I agree with the grandparent, the article is definitely full of shit.
        • Analog Devices did provide the accelerometers for Twist and Tumble, but are you sure about Wario Ware Twisted? It's being widely reported [ign.com] as using gyroscopic technology of some kind, and I've yet to see reports to the contrary. I can't find any hard confirmation that the "gyration" company Nintendo is reported to be working with provided the hardware for Twisted, but they [Gyration] claim they have gyroscopic sensors which are generally more accurate than accelerometers.

          This has no bearing on the shit-fill
      • IAARS, and have looked into the use of accelerometers for a few different things; armature satellite use, for one. They simply do not have the resolution you need. Gyros WORK, and are insanely accurate over a very wide range. Accelerometers work for large accelerations (> 0.1G is what I found) but not small, or have a very narrow bandwidth -- they either saturate at high acceleration or don't respond to low acceleration.

        In game terms, what this generally means is that for the 'Oh crap I am about to wrec
        • haha. Please ignore my horrible typos: for one, I have never worked on an armature satellite. Only an amateur one.
        • I know the accelerometer sampling rate is critical, but what would stop nintendo from making a small circuit to control them (or, more likely, buying a single package with everything in it) that ran at the top frequency for such a purpose? You're talking about satellites, I'm talking about a disposable video game system.
          • Position, mostly. Developers would be able to make cooler games if they knew that they could query the controller for the angle it is being held at.

            The price of a gyro system is cheap enough (as witnessed by the Gyration) that it makes little sense to spend as much or more money on a MEMS system and the higher computing power (and battery consumption) that it would entail.

            Or so I believe.
            • MEMS accelerometers do provide static acceleration, and thus can be used to sense angle if you have enough axes. You don't need more computing power, you just need a teensy bit of hardware close to the accelerometers doing high-frequency sampling and putting out a useful signal. I suppose the gyro could be cheaper, but I would think it would also consume more power.

    • The Revolution will have 802.11. There's no other way to connect to the DS.

      Other than the GBA slot, renamed the "Option Pak slot" when in DS mode?

      • But then what if the developer wanted to use the option pak at the same time? :)

        Anyway, technically yeah, the option pak could serve as somewhere to plug in a cable so long as Nintendo is okay with closing off simultaneous usage of the option pak, and i really hope they give us a substitute GBA->GC cable in that way at some point. But this really is not the way Nintendo would do this. They've said over and over the DS is supposed to be an all-in-one connectivity machine...
  • I'm betting on DS connectivity, in part because the downableable play feature of the DS makes it so easy. So there is 16 player games with per-player private information.

    Extending the gyroscope sensor rumor, hasn't anyone else thought it weird that Twisted is coming to GBA instead of DS? Of course the bigger cartridge means the sensors fits easier. I foresee GBA styled cartridges for the DS just for similar sensors that work for DS cartidge and download play games. Twisted may already as such a cartidge

  • My Guess (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Mitaphane ( 96828 )
    If we're going by the "Touching is good but feeling is better." hint my guess is that it's some sort of tactile force feedback in the controller. Or at least that's my hope. While force feedback can be fun(see Metal Gear Solid for one it's best uses) most games use it for just another effect when your character gets damaged or something basic like that.

    I remember reading about these tactile feedback control in video games a few years back. They had motors in the controller that responded to what was going
    • Been around in PC gaming for years. e.g.

      http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductInfo.asp?Web ProductID=98344 [scan.co.uk]

      I have something similar, it's pretty cool. e.g. in Elite Force some guns have recoil which pushes your aim upwards, and getting shot down in Rogue Squadron is incredible - the stick throws itself around maniacally. Not that many games support it though, and of course I'd rather play anything that isn't a flight sim with a mouse.

      I don't see something like this really taking off on a console thoug
    • I remember reading about these tactile feedback control in video games a few years back.

      The Microsoft SideWinder Force Feedback Pro Joystick [amazon.com] was one of the first to implement this really well. It came out in 1997 (I think), and when it first came out a lot of the game stores had demos. A friend bought one (retailed for $149.99 when it first came out), and it was great for Flight Simulator, but most of the other games "supported" by it didn't really do a good job. If properly supported, I think these F

    • That is not tactile feedback! That is force feedback. Rumble is vibration feedback. Tactile feedback tells you what something feels like. For example military trainers use piezo elements in gloves to simulate the feeling of pressure, to give virtual switches a feeling of solidity. THAT is tactile feedback and we have NEVER seen it done in a commercial video game.
    • "Touching is good but feeling is better."

      As long as their plan isn't something like this [play-asia.com].

      One of my friends showed me a commercial for this. Two young half naked boys in front of the tv enjoying their game. It was a bit disgusting. :)
    • the gamecube controller introduced dual analog sticks (for nintendo, anyway) and analog triggers.

  • Nintendo has underestimated me! They have leaked enough info about the "secret" features of this console that I have been able to narrow down what they are!

    Given that:

    Touching is good but feeling is better

    I can say with reasonable certainty that the new addition is either:

    1. THE POWER GLOVE! (it was only a matter of time)
    2. Smell-o-vision (Think what you'd be "feeling" as you played Resident Evil 5 with this enabled! Essence des Zombies!)
    3. A RealDoll [realdoll.com] with strategically placed buttons and analog thumbst
  • It's nothing 'new', technically speaking. It's just something that hasn't really been applied to videogames yet

    Clearly the Nintendo Revolution with be the first video game console that is fully edible! I can hardly wait.
  • seems rumors are their new form of ads, must save them a lot...

    for the DS, I never saw any ads on it (I don't have cable, but I've asked some people and they didn't either)
  • get creamed and really feal the pain
  • VR gear. A headmount display that puts you literally into the gameplay. All you see is the world around you and the gyroscopes can be mounted in the headgear, so you turn more with your head and body, than the controller, and the controller could be used for activating weapons and forward/backward movement. It falls in line to what he said "revolutionary, but nothing technically new". VR gear has been around for over a decade, I believe, and have seen it used in the big arcades as far back as 1997 (I used t

  • Call Me Jaded... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by blueZhift ( 652272 ) on Monday January 24, 2005 @06:31PM (#11461732) Homepage Journal
    Call me jaded, but I just don't believe the Revolution is going to have anything that's going to knock our socks off. That said, here's something that might make things interesting.

    How about a MMO game that makes use of GPS enabled DS units interacting via hot spots with online Revolution home players. This would be a game that makes use of the whole Earth as its play space. Perhaps Revolution units themselves would be the hot spots. If the Revolutions have hard drives, each one could store some of the game data describing its locale in the game world.

    I think there's a Gizmondo game coming up that moves in this direction. But if Revolution consoles are themselves access nodes to the game for mobile units, that would be different. Games that break down the barriers between the game world and the real world would be truly revolutionary, or subversive, depending on your point of view.
  • It will either be a cheap camera used for input based on body gestures or it will be running Linux, not some proprietary game loader.

    My money is on linux.
    • 1: EyeToy. Been applied to gaming already.
      2: As likely as Microsoft quitting the OS business tomorrow. Nintendo's main source of income is license fees on games sold, giving up on that (and easing piracy) would drive them so far in the red that the whole "Nintendo is going third party" rumours will sound much more realistic.
  • "Interesting bits like gyroscope sensing controllers"

    GYROMITE!!!!

    Because Now You're Playing with Power(TM)!
  • "if you think too hard you'll never guess what it is. It's nothing 'new', technically speaking. It's just something that hasn't really been applied to videogames yet."

    I'll wager that it's a bicycle.

    America's enormously obese youth are about to get a tad healthier.
  • if you THINK too hard...you'll never guess Perhaps it's thought controlled? Even if it's not reading your mind, it could be bioreactive. Like the IBM blueeyes, combined with a head tracker, microphone, and pule sensor in the controller and electro-shock pads on your body for feedback.
  • Virtual Boy : The Next Generation
  • "Nintendo Revolution Rumours Emerge"
    "EA's Plans for Xbox 2"
    "Cultural Blinders Lead to Nintendo Fallacy"

    Fuck sake, Zonk, find some actual news to report or quit. I don't think anyone would blame you at this point.
  • emerge --search "nintendo revolution rumous" did anyone else read it as that?
  • that the new system will be the Game Icosahedron. It will be revolutionary in that it will be the first 20-sided game system ever. How will Sony and Microsoft compete with that?

    Think of how many tabletop gamers would buy one just because it's shaped like a d20.
  • If you think too hard... - I reckon it's a brainwave sensor. Some games will require you to be calm or excited to gain special powers or pass a bad guy. There might be "meditation" levels in beat-em-ups.
  • Let's go over the facts:

    1. All three will be using processors from IBM.

    2. All three will be as small or smaller than existing systems.

    3. All three will have advanced graphics and sound capabilities, and will be able to function as digital entertainment hubs.

    4. They will all retail for under $500.

    Conclusion: All three of the next generation gaming consoles will actually be Mac minis. [apple.com]

    • The Mac mini uses a Freescale (aka Motorola) chip. IBM makes the G5, and they made the G3s right at the end of their life. Motorola is the sole source for the G4.
    • Your statement might have some truth to it. Interestingly, at the time the Mac G4 Cube was released, rumours about the GameCube (then known as Project Dolphin) were circulating. It was known for quite a while the GameCube would use a PowerPC processor, that ATI were providing the 3D hardware, and Nintendo registered the trademark "StarCube" (changed later to GameCube), and was a multimedia powerhouse. Although it was probably just a happy coincidence, the Mac G4 Cube and the GameCube shared all these trai
  • If I remember correctly, gyroscopes spin. They might even be said to "revolve". So I think if the rumors are true, that's the "revolution" they're talking about and we're going to see controllers with gyroscopes.

    Another piece of the rumor puzzle would fit too. The statement "Touching is good but feeling is better" makes me think of the tendency of gyroscopes to resist changes in direction off of the plane in which they spin. Any input from the controllee to the controller that wasn't in the same directi

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