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Linux on Nintendo DS, Update

Posted by timothy on Mon Jun 20, 2005 07:17 PM
from the make-ready-the-whine-cannon dept.
Portables (Games) Software Hardware Hacking Linux
fdevliegher writes "Trying to port Linux to various portable devices is hot nowadays. One project is porting Linux to the Nintendo DS, and is making big progress lately. Right after the DSLinux guys had a working bootable 2.6 kernel, they have put lots of effort in making the sash shell work, in which they also succeeded. The latest feature added is the touchscreen keyboard. It allows users to tap in the commands, providing a much easier input method than before (when only the buttons could be used to input text). Only the basics are being worked on for now, but the future uses of Linux on the Nintendo DS are practically unlimited. In other words, it might become a cheap alternative for a PDA, an emulator, movie viewer, maybe even internet browser, who knows."
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  • Next Up- (Score:3, Funny)

    by jmkgh (787409) on Monday June 20 2005, @07:21PM (#12868125) Journal
    Linux for NES
    • Funny, or Interesting?

      I have no idea how this shit works. I don't really understand how you put Linux on all these devices; do you rewrite it with a totally new machine language set? Or just create new libraries? What do you have to have, in the first place? How does all this work?

      Is there some reason that Linux for NES is technically infeasabale?
      • You would recompile it for the processor.

        Often, new libraries have to be written for weird devices like this, because there isn't support for things like the graphics chip, the touchscreen, the wireless, etc.

        Linux on the NES is infeasible because there isn't NEAR enough RAM, for starters. Also, the CPU is 8-bits - I don't know of any Linux variant that runs on less than a 32-bit CPU (except for ELKS, but that's getting a bit far away from Linux).

  • Yup. (Score:5, Funny)

    by rackhamh (217889) on Monday June 20 2005, @07:23PM (#12868135)
    Trying to port Linux to various portable devices is hot nowadays.

    So hot. You should see the look on my girlfriend's face when I tell her, "Time to compile the kernel on this bad boy."

    Gets 'em every time, baby.
    • Pfft, anyone can compile a kernel. Girls really dig a man who can write kernel patches and knows where to put his curly braces.

    • Re:Yup. (Score:4, Funny)

      by ZosX (517789) <zosxavius@gmail.NETBSDcom minus bsd> on Monday June 20 2005, @08:49PM (#12868647) Homepage
      My girl is just impressed with my mounting skills.

      It's her favorite part.

      • Re:Yup. (Score:4, Funny)

        by Thuktun (221615) on Tuesday June 21 2005, @12:11AM (#12869679) Homepage Journal
        My girl is just impressed with my mounting skills. It's her favorite part.

        "Mount and fsck me, baby!"

          • Re:Yup. (Score:5, Insightful)

            by stoborrobots (577882) on Tuesday June 21 2005, @01:11AM (#12869894)
            If you mount before you fsck her wouldn't you run the risk of screwing her up?

            It's true that if you mount without protection while fscking, you are vulnerable to bloating the system, and causing instability - poentially screwing everything up...

            That's why, if you're going to do that - use protection! If you mount her read-only you can be sure that you won't leave anything behind in the filesystem... Then you can fsck safely...

  • Graffiti-Style Input? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by adavies42 (746183) on Monday June 20 2005, @07:33PM (#12868203)
    How about text recognition as an input method? I can do Palm Graffiti fine with my finger, so it should be eminently doable on a DS. Are there any similar open source projects out there?
    • Interestingly, the new Japanese-English dictionary released for the DS supports written text input. It works better for inputting Japanese hiragana, since those characters have a set stroke order, but it does Roman letters too. Anyhow, it proves that it can be done, which is interesting in itself. My question is if the next version of Pictochat or whatever will incorporate this code.
      • Because you love annoying everyone around you by talking to your damn PDA? Or because you love giving anyone nearby buisness data and contact information of all your friends?

  • What are the real uses? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by OutOfMemory (879817) * on Monday June 20 2005, @07:34PM (#12868205)
    This post mentioned several possible uses for linux on the DS, but what real uses are there? This is a neat trick, but only demonstrates what everyone already knows, the linux kernel is small. I would like to see one of these projects produce something that is actually usefull as something other than an academic exercise.

  • The two things I want (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Dark Paladin (116525) * <jhummel@johnhum m e l.net> on Monday June 20 2005, @07:34PM (#12868213) Homepage
    A PDA I think would be great - the hard part would be letting me sync it to iCal or something, but that would be excellent for me.

    The other would be a Game Boy Color emulator. Yes, I know that the DS can play Game Boy Advance games, but there's still 4 Game Boy games I haven't finished yet (two Zelda games, "Dragon Warrior III" (almost done), and "Metal Gear Solid GBC"). I just want to have the ability to play them all on one device, and then I won't have to keep the GBA SP around all the time.

    Not sure if it can do the latter - the processor might not be powerful enough for emulating the GBC, but the datebook might be good.

    It makes me wonder why Palm hasn't tried to sell a Palm OS cartridge - I know I'd buy one, and even if it was Palm Light (let you sync up, maybe enter some things, but no major app support) it would almost be worth $50 - $60.

    Just my opinion, of course. Congrats to the Linux on DS team, either way!
    • actually if your careful, and into taking things apart (and you know voiding it and stuff) you can solder something on the board that will let it play the older games.

      The first generations still have the chips that allow backwards compatability to original GB titles like the GBA has, it was just never put in. Odds are the future chips wont even have this ability, but for now if you find the instruction via google, you can hack your system so that emulation of the older gameboy isnt even needed.

      • That was a cruel hoax (Score:5, Informative)

        by swerk (675797) on Monday June 20 2005, @07:56PM (#12868350) Journal
        Don't take it seriously, unless you don't mind having a busted DS.

        I wanted to believe it too. But no, the DS hasn't got GBC-compatible hardware. Emulation is probaby on the way though. Hell, if the Linux development gets far along enough that SDL can be ported, GnuBoy would run! (Who knows at what speed, but still... :^)
    • Well the rumor as of a few months ago http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=7 6 01/ [palminfocenter.com] was that Nintendo either licensing the Palm OS or some apps and/or technology.

      Personally I think this would be a wonderful move on Nintendo's part. With the competition between NDS and the PSP so close why not take full advantage of the DS's trump card: input! The DS may never be the pr0n machine that Sony has turned out but surely it would be trivial to throw on a few hundred dollars worth of functionality with a
      • ahem... the original GBA can emulate a NES just fine ;-)

        It's all about table lookup decodes. The z80 has all at most 256 instructions. The real tricky part is emulating the MMCs [memory map controllers] and audio/timer hardware in sync.

        Actually emulating the cpu isn't so hard.

        Tom
      • Remember: Megahertz is not processing speed. You can't compare the 4 MHz z80 inside the original game boy to the new ARM7 and ARM9 cores. They're totally different beasts, with thousands of man-years of research and development separating them. If you could somehow crank up a z80 to 66 MHz, it would still be blown away (in terms of performance) by the ARM cores in the DS.

        Thus, yes, we can probably assume that the DS has enough processing power to emulate the game boy.

  • Having a stable linux distribution running on portable handheld console could very well mean the difference between high sales or a a total failure.

    with the psp linux project, the gadget has had a huge amount of added features aincluding the ability to emulate other platforms (famicon/snes/gameboy).

    The nintendo ds isnt very exciting or sexy as a handheld. The added feature of various linux hacks (eg a media player) could very well make the ds a more attractive toy.
    • It won't have even a tiny effect on sales. Look how few people use linux on the desktop, and you can quite easily install that without any hacking.

    • Re:feel free to say i'm wrong (Score:5, Informative)

      by snuf23 (182335) on Monday June 20 2005, @09:51PM (#12869009)
      OK, so the PSP currently has homebrew apps running on either the 1.0 bios or through a swap exploit on 1.5 bios - but not on the currently shipping bios. The emulation scene is in a very early state for those that can actually run the software. PSP Linux has hardly any progress.
      Now you probably don't know about emulation, homebrew, movie playback etc. on the Gameboy Advance or Gameboy. It does exist in a considerably more advanced state than on the PSP. The main difference is that in order to take advantage of it, you need a flash memory cart for the GBA or DS. A good example is the Super Card [modwhiz.com] which allows you to plug a compact flash card into the DS. It also plays GB, NES, PCEngine and Sega GameGear games out of the box. It has both movie and music playback features as well and supports homebrew GBA apps. There are other cards available that will allow you to play DS bootleg or homebrew games as well.
    • Yep, sorry, you are wrong. The gaming scene has far more users than Linux on computer, and the difference between getting a handheld or not to the average Joe isn't whether it can run a version of Linux or not. It may make it slightly more attractive for some, but saying that it would be the difference between 'high sales' and 'total failure', when the DS has already sold millions and millions without this so far, is ludicrous.

      Even on home consoles, mod-chip users are in the vast minority. Although a conso

  • Newb (Score:2, Flamebait)

    by jdavidb (449077)

    Trying to port Linux to various portable devices is hot nowadays.

    You're new here, aren't you?

  • These little personal devices are great multimedia servers, too. They're cheap, battery-backed up, no moving parts. Their tiny UI is too limited for anything but selecting modes, for everyone but dedicated enthusiasts (gamers and geeks). But telnet into them, plug in speakers/mic, and they're already great for audio multimedia (music, voice, alarms). And some can actually output video, either builtin or in a cartridge. They are the stinging suckers on Linux's tentacles, slowly wrapping around every multimed
  • I have not looked at the site yet...but im wondering. Will this effect normal DS gaming on the unit. Pardon me for my stupidity :)

  • Nethack (Score:4, Funny)

    by lazarus (2879) on Monday June 20 2005, @08:35PM (#12868557)
    The Nintendo DS is the perfect platform for playing Nethack. It's dual screen means that all of the various nethack commands and options can be put on the bottom touch screen (perhaps even stats), while the top can be left exclusivly for the game display. That it is a portable platform means that you can play Nethack anywhere (important to the millions additcted to the game...)

    I understand that simply having Linux on the DS doesn't mean Nethack would be trivial to port, but it is a step in the right direction IMHO. I'm holding my breath.
  • I've heard that the handhelds [handhelds.org] guys are trying to port Linux to the Nokia 770.
    -russ

  • Nintendo Already licensed Palm OS (Score:5, Interesting)

    by marcybots (473417) on Monday June 20 2005, @08:52PM (#12868667)
    With how powerful the Nintendo DS hardware is compared to the original (and still useful) old Palm pilots I am not surprised it could be a PDA, but it seems Nintendo already thought of that.

    Nintendo had recently licensed Palm OS based PDA software without any details on why they had done it. Nintendo sources have now revealed that the V-Pocket patent filed by Nintendo a few days ago concerns this licensing. E3 2005 will be the first witness of the Nintendo V-Pocket suite: a complete line of personal organizer tools for the Nintendo DS. Nintendo believes PDA software coupled with the already existing touch screen of the DS will put it above its high profiled rival, the PSP.
    • personally a palm, nintendo, apple cooperation would be really cool. A little cooperation and they could each keep their markets.. while making their cooperation better. The absolute coolest would be to play Nintendo games on your PC.. ie via firewire to control it. or like other posters said, Palm on a DS for quick PDA stuff.. Then you'd only have to carry an iPod & DS.. pretty cool!

  • I think its cool (Score:5, Insightful)

    by dr_leviathan (653441) on Monday June 20 2005, @09:01PM (#12868719)
    I think Linux on the DS is cool. I can think of a few neat applications and I'm sure the creative hackers out there can think up some fun projects for LinuxDS.

    There is a company called Charmed Labs that makes a programmable robot cartridge for the old GBA. They're probably working on a similar add on for the DS right now. But with Linux on the DS you don't even need to robot cartridge to have fun, or you could probably by the cartridge for extras like easily accessible ADC/DAC lines. You could make a little hand-held oscilliscope or something.

    GBA's were being used as information accessories for some car races. The cartridges that you could rent had wireless units that would get realtime info from the race.

    Someone else was using GBA's as little hand-held real-time engine information units. You could tap into your car's microprocessor and get some info out.

    Stuff like that would just be easier to do with Linux on the DS. It's all good.

    I'd buy a DS just to get Linux running on it. Now if I could only find the time to play with a project like that -- I already work too hard :-(
  • ...does it run Windows?
    • actually, there is a company planning a cart that will act like a PDA and sync with Palm desktop (and theoretically isync) so to think its naive is a little short sighted.
    • The Nintendo DS is a device which lots of people already own. I have one.

      It happens, incidentally, to have an 802.11 chip built in, as well as enough power to potentially be turned to non-game uses.

      Can you really not see why some people might consider it potentially useful to have the ability to run general applications, such as a web browser, ssh client, IM client, etc, on a device which you might frequently have in your pocket anyhow?

      If not, well, I do, and I intend to do exactly this once the flash ca
      • It also has an ARM 9 Cpu a Mic and Headphone Jack.

        I keep waiting for a wi-fi alternative to cell phones to become ubiqutous if this works well enough and the DS keeps selling this could be it!

        /me is happy :P
        3.) Profit?
        • Today's slashdot headlines include:
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          • "Here is an interesting link that shows how to convert your laptop into something called as walltop"
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    • "WTF to people bother with this."

      In this particular case, it'd be handy if the DS had SSH running on it. Maybe even a mail client. Since it has a touch screen, an OSK would work fairly well on it. It'd be a great little $150 doohickey for Linux admins.

      Other than that, I agree with you. The DS is a good match for this sort of thing, but the PSP isn't. What a difference a touch screen makes.
    • Because sometimes, when you work on getting an OS such as Linux to work on obsecure or unusual hardware, it can help iron out bugs and make the overall OS more portable.

      Look at the work being done to get Linux to work on the latest iPod generation - Linux on the iPod could be very useful to some people, especially because of the amount of people who have an iPod who happen to be geeks or similar.

      The benefits may not be seen right away, but sometimes, its the small achievements that make a difference in th

    • IBM SHARK/ATOMIK (Score:5, Interesting)

      by pkhuong (686673) on Monday June 20 2005, @07:45PM (#12868282) Homepage
      Big Blue has spent R&D money thinking about this for us :)

      http://www.alphaworks.ibm.com/tech/atomik [ibm.com] is a layout for tapping. I used it on my m105, and it's pretty good. Definitely better than graffiti if you're standing still and don,t haveto pay attention to your surroundings, and somewhat better than qwerty or alphabetic (I used paper overlays on the graffiti area).

      http://www.alphaworks.ibm.com/tech/sharktext [ibm.com] uses the same layout in an ingenious way, where you trace a line between the letters of the word. You quickly remember the shape of frequent words, and it works surprisingly well (I'm using the java demo almost as often as the built-in TIP on my tablet PC).
        • Quoting the AC:
          " how about an adaptive keyboard?

          Sorta like a radial cqntext menu. It has a dictionary, and learns which words are common from you... and gives you the next letter for various words in a radial context menu. Depending on how fast it can generate the menus, you could muscle-memorize words. It could potentially be faster than traditional keyboards."

          Mm.. A bit like http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/dasher/ [cam.ac.uk] ? I guess you could at least crib the predictive part of the engine. The problem I see

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