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House Calls for Investigation Into Rockstar Games
Posted by
Zonk
on Tue Jul 26, 2005 11:18 AM
from the hot-coffee-of-the-undead dept.
from the hot-coffee-of-the-undead dept.
Spad writes "The BBC is reporting that the U.S. House of Representatives has overwhelmingly voted for an FTC investigation into Rockstar Games following the GTA:SA 'Sex scandal'. Their basic premise is that Rockstar intentionally deceived the ESRB in order to 'peddle sexually explicit material to our youth'." Gamespot has coverage as well. From the BBC article: "The release of Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas was widely anticipated, but an adults-only rating would have severely limited its sales in retail outlets...It appears that the publisher has blatantly circumvented the rules in order to peddle sexually explicit material to our youth, and they should be held accountable. A company cannot be allowed to profit from deceit."
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Rockstar's Road To Ruin 59 comments
Via GamePolitics, an exerpt from an upcoming Wired print magazine article on Rockstar's slide from grace. The article outlines a number of the problems we've discussed here on the site, such as their numerous lawsuits, the 'Hot Coffee' scandal, and stock-option problems. At four pages it's only a teaser for the longer article in the magazine, but it's still very much worth taking a look. "The irony is thick: The company that defined virtual criminality is now associated with the real thing. Rockstar and Take-Two executives declined to answer questions for this article, but their rich and troubled story is revealed by official documents and former employees. It seems the blokes forgot that in life, as in Grand Theft Auto, there are repercussions for the choices you make."
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Better Things To Do... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Better Things To Do... (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:Better Things To Do... (Score:5, Interesting)
If virtual child pornography, released under the guise that it is real is constitutionally protected - then you can most definitely show poorly rendered sex in a fictional setting.
Also, the ESRB is a voluntary board, there is no regulation stating that a game has to be rated in order to be sold to the public. Any attempt to deceive the ESRB should be frowned upon by the Video Game development community, but nothing illegal was done. You can release a movie as NR without a problem, you can also release a game without a rating. This is not a place for the FTC to get involved.The thing to do would to eloquently write your congressman\congresswoman and your state reps and tell them what a crock of shit this is. Let them know that there are more important things to be making a spectacle of in the public eye, and that if these subjects are not addressed, we will use our combined intelligence and knowledge to prevent their re-election.
Parent
Re:Better Things To Do... (Score:5, Insightful)
It's even worse than that...
Their basic premise is that Rockstar intentionally deceived the ESRB in order to 'peddle sexually explicit material to our youth'
Every definition of "youth" I can find refers to a period "before maturity". Therefore, if the ESRB considers 17+ to be Mature, Rockstar never tried to do anything to their youth.
GAWD!!!
Parent
Re:Better Things To Do... (Score:3, Informative)
Funny, this is almost what William Gaines tried to do (abeit more modestly) when he defended E.C. Publications' "horror" comic books that came under attack after Dr. Wertham published a book lambasting "seduction" [wikipedia.org] in the media. The PR backlash from the public from Gaines' defense in Congress eventually set the comics industry back se
Re:Better Things To Do... (Score:3, Insightful)
Are you out of your fucking mind?
With all the shit that made it into the publically known version of the game, I can't believe the sex part is even an issue for anyone.
The game is rated for mature audiences. Mature (aka 'adult') audiences, even by american ultra-prude standards, can handle sexual (aka 'adult') material. Do the math.
Re:Better Things To Do... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Better Things To Do... (Score:5, Interesting)
Parent
Re:Better Things To Do... (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:Better Things To Do... (Score:3, Insightful)
No, Democrats will vote for her. Real liberals will laugh at her and vote Green, knowing that she'll win anyway.
Hillary, Joe Lieberman, Tipper Gore, etc. are some of the most socially conservative politicians in the United States. Just because Rush calls them "libs" doesn't make it so.
Re:Better Things To Do... (Score:3, Insightful)
All this democrat/republican garbage is all the same nowadays. Mayor Ventura said... "We have 1 more choice than Iraq."
Re:Better Things To Do... (Score:3, Insightful)
How about Pestilence, or "Wrath of God", or Vampires?
Re:Better Things To Do... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Better Things To Do... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Better Things To Do... (Score:5, Insightful)
Except that Hillary Clinton is a Senator, and this was a vote in the House of Representatives.
In fact, this resolution was introduced by a Republican congressman from Indiana. Here he is. [wndu.com]
Hillary Clinton is just fishing for votes; this guy actually believes it's worth wasting real congressional workday hours on.
Parent
Re:Better Things To Do... (Score:4, Insightful)
W's secret? A bunch of bible thumpers who vote for whoever Jesus tells them to.
The democrats are just trying to grab an easy piece of the "right wing nutjob" pie. Hoping that if all candidates have the same view on morality, then theres actually a decision to make.
Parent
Re:Better Things To Do... (Score:3, Interesting)
W's real secret: have the republican-controlled state election board in ohio make it very hard for people in democratic leaning districts to cast their vote, by providing insufficient and unreliable voting machines to their districts.
8 hour lines, anyone? In my well-off neighborhood, I only had to wait about 5 minutes.
All of 'em (Score:2)
It's been there since the first one, but nobody even lifted a finger -- government wise -- until now. It's been like three or four years.
Wow.
Luke
----
Tired of answering tons of basic computer questions for friends and family? Send them to ChristianNerds.com [christiannerds.com] instead!
Naked Sims! OH NOES! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Naked Sims! OH NOES! (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
what a bunch of BS (Score:2)
I'll be first (Score:5, Funny)
Shooting cops
Running over pedestrians
Stealing cars
Throwing grenades
Stealing tanks and smushing old ladies
Joyriding
Speeding
Killing hundreds, literally
All ok.
But how dare they show some cartoon boobie!
Re:I'll be first (Score:3, Insightful)
THERE WAS NO BOOBIE! (Score:5, Insightful)
And I'm not yelling at the parent because he probably knows, but I just want to get the point across loud and clear: THERE WAS NO BOOBIE ACTION!
Fully clothe is what you got with that modification.
Now, with a naked skin mod, only then do you get to see something, and those are community created, Rockstar did not create naked skins. So these fucking politicians are just using this as an excuse for something, and this entire fiasco has been completely over-blown.
Parent
Re:THERE WAS NO BOOBIE! (Score:3, Informative)
America is certifiably insane.
That premise is pretty messed up :) (Score:2)
I guess they had to have SOMETHING for the press, though.
There are a number of easier ways to get porn - most people wouldn't consider a video game quality porn, anyway.
Re:That premise is pretty messed up :) (Score:3, Interesting)
Why don't you... (Score:5, Insightful)
Be very fucking ashamed at yourselves.
That's right... (Score:2, Insightful)
...justify your comfy jobs by going after a video game maker. Ignore the fact that the evil sex bits needed some pretty fancy dancing to have them show up.
Won't somebody think of the children?!
Adults only rating (Score:3, Insightful)
its not used because it would mean that the 15 year old with his b-day $$ cant go but the latest gore spiller. if the rating was used more we might actually see parents take a larger intrest in what their kids are playing when the parent themselves has to buy the game vs the teenage kid.
though it will still do nothing for the idiots that just buy what ever game their kid is begging for and let them play it regardless.
This has gotten out of hand (Score:4, Insightful)
A game that depicts and rewards as much violence as the GTA series has, has missions where killing cops and civillians gains you status and money, and is generally about the rise to power of a crime lord, and they're worried about a sex scene that porn collectors wouldn't waste the time to download. Geez, priorities are out of whack.
A company cannot be allowed to profit from deceit. So pick a relatively small company to go after, since the bigger ones are so much harder. You think Rockstar is the only or even one of the worst companies making money from deceit? Think again
Our Great Leaders (Score:3, Insightful)
"It appears that the publisher has blatantly circumvented the rules in order to peddle sexually explicit material to our youth, and they should be held accountable. A company cannot be allowed to profit from deceit."
Never mind that this title wasn't supposed to be sold to youths (17+), or that it already boasts loads of sexual and violent content.
That said, the facts don't even matter here. Rockstar had a software quality SNAFU that is providing politicians a soapbox opportunity. Betcha those easter eggs will get fewer and farther between, eh?
Double standard (Score:5, Insightful)
A government or political party, on the other hand...
Don't they have slightly more important stuff? (Score:5, Insightful)
Doesn't the House have slightly more important things to be doing than starting an investigation against a video game?
Someone in the White House may have placed individuals who gave intelligence at risk, breaking the law in the process. So Congress responsds by... INVESTIGATING TITTIES IN A VIDEO GAME!
Yes, I know, not directly. It still seems like they're looking for something - anything - to replace Karl Rove with in the news.
Re:Don't they have slightly more important stuff? (Score:3, Insightful)
rising gas prices? increased terror attacks? the Karl Rove debacle? a controversial supreme court justice? (well, to be fair, there's never been a non-controversial one) no look! a videogame! quick everyone, look over here, no time to let any thoughts about those other issues sink in!
this administration makes me sick
Re:(OT) (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Don't they have slightly more important stuff? (Score:3, Funny)
Do we really need an investigation? (Score:5, Insightful)
Also, what is the big deal here? The game was already rated 'M for Mature'; that's 17+, according to the ESRB. In a majority of states, you can already play the sex mini-game legally in real life. Is there some reason sex should be legal at 16 [ageofconsent.com], but a sex-themed video game should be illegal until you're 18?
GTA is 10 years behind the times (Score:3, Funny)
For the good of
If anything, I say rockstar deserves a medal!
Slashdot (Score:5, Insightful)
While our nation continues to decline in its engineering education, falling behind "second world" nations, we focus on the nerd version of "Entertainment Weekly". Fortune had a wonderful article talking about this, and what the U.S. must do if it wants to stay #1... their focus was on engineering (imagine that... business folks recognizing the need for engineers).
Will we see this type of article on Slashdot? No. But will we see more articles like this one? Yup. Will we see stories on what breakfast cereal Google endorses? Probably.
Mod down accordingly.
Don't get me wrong, we need articles of all types to make the "Slashdot salad" complete. But it seems this site ignores articles that really make you think, and go for the gratuitous knee-jerk articles instead.
From a Conversation with my Wife (Score:4, Insightful)
If anyone UNDER 17 is playing a copy obtained by an underage person, the system failed.
If anyone UNDER 17 is playing a copy obtained by a "legal" of-age person, then that person is presumably guilty of contributing to delinquency or somesuch (IANAL).
As far as I know, Hot Coffee is only accessible through an extra, non-in-game process in any version. Source mod, cheat code, etc. Therefore, anyone accessing Hot Coffee is doing so in circumvention of the standard game code.
Now, after ALL THAT, here's what I want to know...why isn't Hot Coffee (and M-rated gaming in general) treated like drinking? If I drink too muck and then "manslaughter" someone, do I get to finger Corona? No!
In addition to GTA, I'm currently enjoying BloodRayne 2. I'm really enjoying the feeding fatalities. But if I go and slice up some poor schmoe, am I going to sue Majesco or Terminal Reality? No!
What happened to adults taking personal responsibility for their own actions? I should be smart enough and responsible enough to know when I'm taking *any* vice too far. Games, sex, drugs, speeding, etc.
GTRacer
- Pleased that Rayne is more or less realistically proportioned, unlike Lara
Open Letter to Rockstar Games North (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm writing because Rockstar Games North is at the center of the future. The Hot Coffee Mod has propelled you to the front lines of the culture wars. For many hundreds of years, crafty and selfish politicians have used the empty and meaningless phrase "family values" to enrage an otherwise apathetic public and solidify their power.
The most recent self-aggrandizing political power-monger to attempt a power grab by denigrating the invented enemies of children and the family is Hillary Clinton. How hypocritical for a woman whose own family life is a public embarrassment to now attack a supposed enemy of the family. But of course it's no coincidence - it is precisely because her own family life is a joke that she must become a defender of the family. For what better way to advance her political career?
You have a choice. Rockstar Games North has created the most aesthetically important piece of art since Andy Warhol was alive. Never in the history of the narrative form has a piece encouraged with such audacity the audience's identification with an anti-social character. And yet, it's a hit. Grand Theft Auto is one of the most popular video game series of all time. The question people should be asking is why do so many people dream of being an outlaw in their personal life rather than what effect this piece of art is having on our children.
Then again, the outlaw has been a staple of the narrative form ever since the inception of the story. Men have always thrilled to tales of the criminal, the social deviant, and the outlaw. Obviously, part of the attacks on Grand Theft Auto are spurred by an anti-technological bias. It's likely that many who criticize have never even played a video game. It's even more likely that those who criticize have never played through a single game of Grand Theft Auto.
Many criticisms are based on single, isolated elements of the game, and yet where's the criticism of the game as a whole? Criticizing GTA for a single element is like criticizing Huckleberry Finn or The Catcher in the Rye for a single word.
The suggestion that Grand Theft Auto could somehow harm children is laughable. How is it possible for a video game to nullify the effects of poverty, racial discrimination, lack of opportunity, and - most importantly - the natural slights children experience as a result of interacting with other children? It's not possible. And for someone to suggest that a video game has a greater influence than any of these effects, combined or individually, on the personality of a growing child, is ridiculous. Your company is being attacked and demonized by individuals and organizations concerned only with increasing their own power. Clinton's and other groups' intentions are naked, obvious, and reprehensible.
How many of us experienced violent content in art while growing up? How many of us experienced sexual content while growing up? Almost all of us. The Bible itself is full of violence and sex. Yet most of us are law-abiding citizens. In fact, I believe if the GTA audience were researched, we'd find that they are less likely to commit a crime than the general population. How likely is someone to be a criminal when they have the tenacity to make it through a 40+ hour narrative? How likely are they to be a criminal if imaginary anti-social acts satisfy them?
You need to break yourselves off from Take Two and fight the good fight. You're established now. GTA will always sell. You can make other games that push the boundaries of the art form. And, if you follow this road, you'll have no competition. Almost all other companies will be cowed and scared.
Good luck. I hope you decide to fight.
Profit from deceit? (Score:5, Insightful)
What next? Investigations into where all the money actually went in Iraq? Go do a search for: budget audit iraq.
"CPA staff identified at one ministry that although 8,206 guards were on the payroll, only 602 guards could be validated," the audit report states. "Consequently, there was no assurance funds were not provided for ghost employees."
If all the US people are bothered about is "sex scenes" in computer games, they really have skewed priorities.
Please stop drinking the kool-aid.
Hmm, maybe it's all the thimerosal in the vaccines - so lots of people nowadays have damaged brains and so can't really think straight?
Kill, murder, steal & destroy (Score:3, Insightful)
GTA 1: Run over people, kill them with guns, run big tanks into police building to kill cops. Kick people out of their cars, or shoot them, to steal their car. Violence: very high, Sex: none -> okay
GTA 2: same with little bit better graphics. Violence: Very high, Sex: none -> okay
GTA now: semi-realistic 3D graphics. Kill, shoot, rob, destroy, explode, etc. Violence: Very hight, Sex: one dry hump -> CATSROPHY.
In my opinion. American FCC makes itself a world wide joke. Seriously. Nobody here outside of America takes them serious and the bad thing is, nobody takes the rest of America serious either anymore thanks to those FCC & religious idiots. Great work, how some stupid sex-hating maniacs can do damage. Actually this is just something, where I can make fun of my American co-workers at office.
I think they need to get laid. NOW. Right now
Can't believe they said that (Score:3, Informative)
The US Government said that? With a straight face?
Unnecessary Investigation (Score:4, Interesting)
There are multitudes of people who wanted GTA banned or censored, but could not before because it was under the shield of the "17+" rating.
Now that it has been found that some sexual, "18+" content has been found in a normally inaccessable part of the game, those people can (perhaps rightfully) claim that this content is illegal due to the fact that sexual content was sold to minors.
What needs to be stated by the ESRB is what exactly is meant by a game rating. Do ratings reflect what is shown in normal parts of game play, or does it include easter eggs as well? What about content that is put in the final version but is only accessable by using mods, such as hot coffee?
Most kids that would actually be "corrupted" by the kind of content in hot coffee are too young and not smart enough to hack into a computer game to find it. Putting inaccessable adult content in a game for minors is like giving a kid a safe with a porno mag inside and no combination.
I don't think this needs a federal investigation, as this path may lead to censorship. The ESRB even said that this mess is over.
How utterly hypocritical (Score:5, Funny)
A company cannot be allowed to profit from deceit."
Because Congress has the monopoly on profiting from deceit.
List of Names who voted for this (Score:4, Informative)
So far, on the us house page, I've found this:
7:22 P.M. - ONE MINUTE SPEECHES - The House proceeded with one minute speeches.
H. Res. 376: expressing the sense of the House of Representatives that the Federal Trade Commission should investigate the publication of the video game "Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas" to determine if the publisher intentionally deceived the Entertainment Software Ratings Board to avoid an "Adults-Only" rating
The title of the measure was amended. Agreed to without objection.
Motion to reconsider laid on the table Agreed to without objection.
On motion to suspend the rules and agree to the resolution, as amended Agreed to by the Yeas and Nays: (2/3 required): 355 - 21, 1 Present (Roll no. 419).
This leads to this roll call:
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2005/roll419.xml [house.gov]
Which states that 195 republicans voted yes, 2 voted nay. 159 democrats voted yes, 19 voted nay. 1 independant voted nay.
In other words, it wasn't even a contested vote.
The full list of those who voted yay follows:
Ackerman Aderholt Akin Alexander Allen Andrews Baca Baird Baker Baldwin Barrett (SC) Barrow Bartlett (MD) Barton (TX) Bass Beauprez Berry
Biggert Bilirakis Bishop (GA) Bishop (NY) Blackburn Blunt Boehlert Boehner Bonilla Bonner Bono Boozman Boren Boswell Boucher Boustany Boyd Bradley (NH) Brady (PA) Brady (TX) Brown (OH) Brown (SC) Burgess Burton (IN) Butterfield Calvert Camp Cantor Capito Capps Capuano Cardin Cardoza Carnahan Carson Carter Case Castle Chabot Chandler Chocola Cleaver Clyburn Coble Conaway Cooper Costa Cox Crenshaw Crowley Cubin Cuellar Culberson Cummings Davis (AL) Davis (CA) Davis (IL) Davis (KY) Davis (TN) Davis, Jo Ann Davis, Tom Deal (GA) DeFazio DeGette DeLauro DeLay Dent Diaz-Balart, L. Dicks Dingell Doggett Doyle Drake Dreier Duncan Edwards Ehlers Emanuel Emerson Engel English (PA) Eshoo Etheridge Evans Everett Farr Ferguson Filner Fitzpatrick (PA) Foley Forbes Ford Fortenberry Foxx Franks (AZ) Frelinghuysen Garrett (NJ) Gerlach Gilchrest Gillmor Gingrey Gohmert Gonzalez Goode Goodlatte Gordon Granger Graves Green (WI) Green, Al Green, Gene Gutknecht Hall Harman Harris Hart Hastings (WA) Hayes Hayworth Hefley Hensarling Herger Herseth Higgins Hinchey Hoekstra Holden Holt Honda Hooley Hoyer Hunter Hyde Inglis (SC) Inslee Israel Issa Jackson (IL) Jackson-Lee (TX) Jindal Johnson (CT) Johnson (IL) Johnson, Sam Jones (NC) Kanjorski Kaptur Keller Kelly Kennedy (MN) Kennedy (RI) Kildee Kind King (IA) Kingston Kirk Kline Knollenberg Kolbe Kucinich Kuhl (NY) LaHood Langevin Lantos Larsen (WA) Larson (CT) Latham LaTourette Leach Levin Lewis (CA) Lewis (KY) Lipinski LoBiondo Lofgren, Zoe Lowey Lucas Lungren, Daniel E. Lynch Mack Maloney Manzullo Marchant Markey Marshall Matheson Matsui McCarthy McCaul (TX) McCollum (MN) McCotter McCrery McGovern McHenry McHugh McIntyre McKeon McKinney McMorris McNulty Meehan Meek (FL) Meeks (NY) Melancon Menendez Mica Michaud Millender-McDonald Miller (FL) Miller (NC) Miller, Gary Miller, George Mollohan Moore (KS) Moore (WI) Moran (KS) Moran (VA) Murphy Musgrave Myrick Nadler Napolitano Neal (MA) Neugebauer Ney Northup Norwood Nunes Oberstar Olver Osborne Otter Oxley Pallone Pascrell Pastor Pearce Pence Peterson (MN) Peterson (PA) Petri Pickering Pitts Platts Poe Pombo Pomeroy Porter Price (GA) Price (NC) Putnam Ramstad Rangel Regula Rehberg Reichert Renzi Reynolds Rogers (AL) Rogers (KY) Rogers (MI) Rohrabacher Ros-Lehtinen Ross Roybal-Allard Royce Ruppersberger Ryan (OH) Ryan (WI) Ryun (KS) Sabo Salazar Sánchez, Linda T. Sanchez, Loretta Sanders Saxton Schakowsky Schiff Schwartz (PA) Schwarz (MI) Scott (GA) Scott (VA) Sensenbrenner Sessions Shadegg Shaw Sherman Sherwood Shimkus Shuster Simmons Simpson Skelton Slaughter Smith (NJ) Smith (TX) Smith (WA) Snyder Solis Spratt Stearns Stupak Sullivan Tancredo Tanner Tauscher Taylor (MS) Taylor (NC) Thomas Tho
Re:OK (Score:3, Informative)
Personally, I'd love it if they did. I'd love to watch them carjack some poor old lady's car, run over the hookers crossing the street and smashing into a delivery truck, and getting the cops chasing them. They'd run over cops at roadblocks and spray Uzis out the driver windows at rival gangs, so they can ge
Re:OK (Score:3, Funny)