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Plotting the Revolution's Arc
from the breaking-gravity's-pull-or-spiralling-in dept.
Today, that little kid is beaming. The company that introduced me to gaming so long ago has picked itself up off the mat and looks ready to come out swinging this time around. We've already linked to 1up's coverage of the announcement, but if you haven't read it yet there are plenty of other places to get the specifics. Gamespot, Gamespy, IGN, and Game Informer all have photo spreads, video, and first hand impressions from their experiences with Nintendo's next venture. Commentary is available from CNN Money, Wonderland, Jeremy Parish, The Game Chair, Joystiq, and Next Generation. An interview with Nintendo's Senior EU Marketing director is available on Eurogamer, and if you want to see the announcement firsthand a webcast of the presentation is available.
All of these pieces spend at least a paragraph or two wondering about the future, and with good reason. Within half an hour of the story being posted to the internet there were already lamentations about "the end of an era" and blistering condemnations of the controller as a lark that will fail as badly as the Virtual Boy. Specifically, both the professional media and fan commentaries seemed to center around the reaction that third party developers may or may not have to this extremely intriguing idea. The combination of this new controller style and the mentality that "Nintendo is for kids" may cause the company some problems down the line. They're almost certainly right.
That said, if you've read the description of the Metroid Prime demo you can't help but pause. The mental gymnastics required to use a mouse and keyboard in a First Person Shooter have confounded non-gamers since the genre began. As anyone who's played an FPS on a console can tell you, the two joystick approach gets the job done but is far from intuitive. Attempting such a title on the console is basically out of the question unless you can work at the interface, something a non-gamer is rarely willing to do. Nintendo deftly sidesteps this with an interface that has ties directly into what we do in our everyday lives. Turning your head to observe your environment is already an instinct we posses, so not only will it be easy to explain it will be trivial to do. The natural flow of such an interface opens up many horizons. Shooters are well and good, but the immediacy of the first person perspective is a tempting way to just tell a story. Divorced of its more violent aspects and with an interface that doesn't require years of practice to use, who is to say that our mothers won't be playing something built in the Unreal Engine a year from now?
The FPS is just one example of a genre that we traditionally think of as "hardcore" which could be opened up to non-gamers by an interface that allows the user to interact with a gameworld in a less artificial manner . Real Time Strategy games would be a snap, as you wave your hand and the map moves effortlessly along beneath your outstretched hand. Driving games where you could actually apply your real life driving reflexes. Puzzle games where manipulating pieces is second nature. Sports games that require you to actually swing the bat or catch the football. Fighting games where you can feel a guy get punched in the face. At the end of the day, games are about having fun. Say what you will about their business acumen, Nintendo has always understood that. With the Revolution interface, the company is reaching out to the millions of people who have yet to pick up a controller. Why should those of us who have been playing since that first grey box reached our shores be the only ones who have access to the fun?
This is a risky venture, no doubt about it. If third party developers don't catch on to the possibilities here, if the EAs of the world don't take a chance with the new interface, then Nintendo will be looking at a big problem. This may be the last console larger than the DS we see out of the company for quite a while. If that's the way it's going to be, then I say so be it. Finally, at least, Nintendo isn't just going to sit there and try to imitate the other consoles poorly. Sony and Microsoft are very, very good at what they do. Instead of keeping up with the Jonses, Nintendo is striking out on its own. For better or worse, they've taken steps to expand the field of game players and change the nature of game playing.
The number of games at launch, third party commitment to the console, and the commercial reaction to this departure from the norm will be the only way to determine if Nintendo has made the right call. Either way we can look forward to a generation of consoles that will not only be graphically more impressive, but fundamentally different from the gaming systems we've played in the past. For me, at least, when I pick up the remote for the first time it will be like sitting down again on Christmas morning. I can't wait.
I've had my say ... what do you think? The controller announcement was put up early this morning. Now that you've had the chance to look at it more carefully, is your opinion any different? Most importantly, are you planning on buying one?
Hopefully innovation *is* what people want. (Score:5, Interesting)
This takes the idea and makes it more flexible (and more palatable to the anti-toy-gun parents out there). The fundamentals are exactly as I proposed, even if the physical form is quite different. Should have patented that idea I guess
The fact it looks like a "remote control" actually may make it less threatening to non gamers, especially if coupled with games that don't require twitch reflexes. Considering this is the company that came out with Animal Crossings, I can see similar games opening up an interesting market. The idea that it spins ninety degrees and becomes a "classic gaming controller" opens another market. The obvious use in first person style games maintains an opening for the classic market.
If done correctly, Nintendo may bring a larger audience to the table and really tap into those markets that are not well served by the other big consoles. The big concern is how well it will work in more conventional gaming situations. From the descriptions it works quite well and frankly doesn't sound *that* different from an input viewpoint for portability of games *to* the system: it is a fancy analog stick. If it works better than the dual stick inputs for first person games it might even quell the "hard core and insecure about themselves" group that has traditionally slammed Nintendo for being for kids and rejected the system even when games like RE4 came out. Frankly, nearly anything works better than the dual stick inputs on the consoles (yeah, I have learned to cope, but it sucks compared to mouse and WASD) so there is some hope there.
I like the big N... it is a company that produces games that are fun for parties and families. They still understand that a game should be fun first and then comes the chrome, but the developers have really left them by the wayside this go around. Hopefully they will couple this kind of innovation with a more aggressive use of third parties to round out the library.
As an aside, I should point out that I own the Cube, two PS2s and an X-Box, along with my PC game collection: I'm aware of the strengths and weaknesses of each platform and library. Nintendo is a company that I have the most *fondness* for (and anyone who complains about games reaching the point of sameness needs to at least recognize that they are doing there best to avoid that fate), Sony the company I have the most games from and the X-Box is my "co-op gaming Saturday" system. Ghost Recon 2: Summit Strike is ready and waiting. My PC is for RTS and other games that elude the console input scheme.
Re:Hopefully innovation *is* what people want. (Score:5, Insightful)
1. They have market dominance in a market for small, stylish portable devices that lack the raw power of some other devices, but compete on "the complete package."
2. They are more or less a niche competitor in the console market, but maintain the edge in innovation and generally exhort their customers to "Think Different," though not quite so explicitly as Apple. Yet.
Nintendo would do well to emulate Apple's strategies. Increase perceived "style." Appeal to those who consider themselves too "cool" for video games. Nintendo already turns a profit doing what they do, but they can't compete with MS or Sony in volume. This is the only way.
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Re:Hopefully innovation *is* what people want. (Score:3, Interesting)
I've always considered myself to "cheap" for consoles since I'm going to own a couple of PCs anyway, but for the first time in my life I'm considering buying one after reading this article.
Re:Hopefully innovation *is* what people want. (Score:5, Insightful)
Games like this have the parents saying to their kids "Just let me play for a few more minutes, then it will be your turn." That's exactly why these games are so popular. Since when did a game have to be "mature" to be good?
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Re:Hopefully innovation *is* what people want. (Score:3, Insightful)
No, you shouldn't have. Because if you had, we wouldn't be seeing it used by a mainstream company today.
Re:Agreed, especially re: dual joystick hatred (Score:3, Insightful)
It doesn't look uncomfortable to me at all, but we don't know how much those A and B buttons will be used.
Re:Agreed, especially re: dual joystick hatred (Score:3, Interesting)
I just wish there was a snowball's chance this would get re-engineered as a general input device for PC/PS?/XBox, etc.
I'm just sitting here imagining having a light sabre shaped one, and using it to play SW Galaxies.... OMG I need a tissue.
im really pleased with nintendo (Score:4, Insightful)
fencing games can now be fun
Re:im really pleased with nintendo (Score:5, Insightful)
There's also a lot of potential risk. My question is, how does that risk affect the decision of game companies to make games for this system? Are game companies going to want to invest resources for a platform that may not sell? And might that create a vicious circle- even if the system is good, if the game companies hold off developing games, then there's a great likelihood of the system failing to sell.
Great interface just might not be enough. For a long time, Apple had a big advantage in terms of interface, but the machines cost more than PCs, and there was never as much software.
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About the Revolution (Score:5, Funny)
More exciting than the rest (Score:3, Interesting)
And at the very least, making their huge library of older games available for the system will drag a large number of people along even if they are skeptical -- because there's a HUGE market, I think, for nostaligia games, things that link us back to the fun we had as children.
Good luck, Nintendo. You've got at least one person onboard with your vision (me!).
etoychest interview (Score:5, Informative)
Fighting games maybe not as intuitive... (Score:4, Insightful)
And suppose they go the Punch-Out route. Fighting games would get downright tiring.
For all other types of games though, I see the potential. But fighting games with this controller? I remain cautiously skeptical...
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Harry Potter game anyone? (Score:3, Interesting)
With a Magic Wand like that, all you need to do is add a microphone in addition to the accelerometers; and you've got the perfect game controller for a speech-and-swish controled spellcasting game.
There is a lot of really neat roleplaying that comes to mind with a microphone attachment, and it would also be a really cool karaoke machine - especially with the download ability. I can't wait!
If that's failure sign me up (Score:5, Informative)
Well since last quarter they were the only console company of the big 3 to post a profit, and large even if smaller than hoped at 33 million. But up 33 million is certainly better than in the hole 52 million (sony) or 179 million (xbox). Give me the patented Nintendo brand of failure any day.
Source of the figures [gamespot.com]
Patiently awaits his -1 fanboy mod
Re:If that's failure sign me up (Score:5, Interesting)
How about we judge the consoles by other means? Owning all three consoles, the GameCube gets the most playtime easily, followed by the Xbox. Actually, the PS2 was at a friend's house, and is now under water courtesy of hurricane Katrina, but I'm not shedding any tears for it.
Granted, that's just my personal opinion, but I know of a good number of my other friends who feel that way. We're all in our early twenties, we've got some disposable income, I'd say we represent a pretty desirable market segment for a video game company.
I don't see Nintendo ever dominating the industry like they did back in the NES days. I don't see anyone gaining that kind of control over it. In terms of making Nintendo money, and allowing it to continue to exist as a business, the Gamecube did just fine. In terms of providing a platform on which some fun games could be built, I think it did pretty good too. Oh, and it's even managed to be cheaper to buy than the PS2, which is a year older.
Go Nintendo, Go!
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Re:If that's failure sign me up (Score:4, Interesting)
And that just marks the Gamecube as a commercial failure. We moved a month ago. So far, the Gamecube's the only console that we've bothered to unpack. Why? Because it's a load of fun to play in a way that the others just aren't. So the Gamecube was a massive success as a console. It was, really, the perfection of the last generation. Now Nintendo's introduced the next generation, and Sony and Microsoft are caught flat-footed, with massive amounts of cash sunk into minor improvements on last-generation consoles.
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Re:If that's failure sign me up (Score:3, Informative)
Yeah, thats exactly the same situation.
Re:If that's failure sign me up (Score:3, Insightful)
Your statement of "all the profit in the world couldn't help them now" implies that they need help. Rather, all the profit in the world is the goal of a corporation! Your statement like this shows that you are still t
Re:If that's failure sign me up (Score:3, Insightful)
But people are forgetting: WHY did people by an Xbox? What was the killer app?
Halo.
Obvious, but WHY was Halo a launch title for the Xbox?
Because the Monopoly of Bill bought out Bungie.
That game was going to be a PC game (first). And as for consoles, I never heard any words about it. But honestly, if Halo h
Re:If that's failure sign me up (Score:3, Informative)
/nitpick
The Day of the Revolution (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:The Day of the Revolution (Score:3, Funny)
Nom du Keyboard: a slashdot poster with a flamebait sig attached
My Take (Score:4, Interesting)
But reading the description and seeing the video, I am "stoked". In many ways, it's like EyeToy taken to the next level. I can't wait to try it.
I agree that the GC failed (even though I played it more than anything else this generation), but it Nintendo is still here. They took a gamble with the DS and I believe that it payed off. It took a little while to get the first great games, but they are out now with more coming. Nintendo keeps its commitments, and I can't wait to see what they do with this. Even if 3rd parties aren't big on it (sad), I know I can count on Nintendo for hours of fun. If Nintendo consoles turn into what the Atari 2600 was before Activision (only games were made by Atari), that's OK with me.
But this has a chance of doing two things. First, it could cause big problems for Sony and MS. The other option, is it could split the field into the "Nintendoites" (Have a Nintendo, fun, innovative games) and the "Gamerz" (Great graphics, more of the same, not unlike the PC is becoming, with the occasional great game).
I've wanted a Revolution the most of the next generation even knowing almost nothing based on Nintendo's reputation. The XBox 360 and PS3 announcements (especially price) have pushed me further. This threw me off the cliff BIG TIME.
I want my Revolution!
PS: I LOVED the virtual boy. I think it was mismarketed. It had its problems, and it failed, but I still loved it. Mario Crash, Wario Land, Mario Tennis, and more. Some great games on that platform.
Input devices are whats keeping the arcade alive (Score:5, Insightful)
Arcades still have a huge lead when it comes to input devices. A few examples.
Dance Dance Revolution and it's varients.
Just about any cockpit driving game.
Spy Scope (Konami light gun game with a scope)
I can't really remember all the names off hand, but in the arcade intuitive controls is the game. You got games with replica harley davidsons, jet ski's, hang gliders and even futuristic battle pods from which you do mech battle.
I don't think nintendo is taking any kind of a gamble with the revolution controller. They know intuitive control is what has kept the arcade alive for so long and they're following suit.
Re:Input devices are whats keeping the arcade aliv (Score:3, Informative)
No, the cube didn't fail as a console (Score:3, Interesting)
Mario Sunshine
Zelda Wind Waker
Metroid Prime
Sonic Heroes
I know that picking these games apart is the thing to do if you are a video game reviewer, especially WW and Heroes, but *I* enjoyed them. And I know that Heroes was a multiplatform release but the PS2 version sucked and the Xbox version was awkward to control because Heroes was designed to be played with the Cube's nonstandard button configuration.
If Nintendo produces games that people enjoy playing, and they're making money, how is that failing?
This, of course, only gets me more excited about the Rev. Especially when you consider the possibilities for Katamari Damacy with that movable, tiltable controller. (Hey, it could happen... they're doing a DS port...)
My wrist hurts just thinking about it. (Score:4, Insightful)
Not only is the D-pad used for movement, but the Revolution controller can control movement by raising and lowering, but also by twisting, turning, and moving the controller left, right, up, down or forward and backwards
Thanks to 20 years of computer programming and gaming (both PC and many of the consoles that made Nintendo a gaming powerhouse), I get to use a trackball and ergonomic keyboard at work, per doctor's orders.
I try to imagine what I would do with a one-handed controller that required me to twist, turn, and roll my wrist in convoluted ways to play the game, and my wrist starts to hurt just thinking of it.
My first thought after looking at this new controller is that it's going to be an ergonomic nightmare.
Re:My wrist hurts just thinking about it. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:My wrist hurts just thinking about it. (Score:4, Informative)
My first thought after looking at this new controller is that it's going to be an ergonomic nightmare.
I don't think Nintendo expects people to play with their new controller for 8 hours a day every weekday...
Very few tool or objects we grab and use in every day life is 100% ergonomic, but it doesn't hurt to grab or use it unless you do it all day long...
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Re:My wrist hurts just thinking about it. (Score:5, Insightful)
Like a trackball mouse, this forces the movements to vary greatly during the gameplay, repetitive stress disorders won't apply at all.
I'm not a dorctor, but I worked for a year helping in the design of iternet and computer kiosks for the physically challenged so I'm familiar with ergonomics.
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Re:My wrist hurts just thinking about it. (Score:4, Interesting)
OT: my captcha is functor. How many other websites could use such a word in their words bank?
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Re:My wrist hurts just thinking about it. (Score:5, Insightful)
Gripping onto a stick is exactly what your hand is made for.
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The Revolution they promised us (Score:3, Insightful)
I see the Revolution controller as the culmination of a process that began with awkward, lampooned devices such as the Power Glove and Virtual Boy, finally shaping up considerably with the DS. Nintendo's efforts have been focused on bridging the gap between physical and virtual space for a decade and a half, and, at long last, it looks like they've hit the nail on the head. Four (or is it a whole six?) axes controlled without a single finger. Genius.
Zonk (Score:5, Funny)
Now he posts an article with links to EVERY GAMING SITE. So have at it trolls - explain that one!
Revolutionary (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Revolutionary (Score:3, Insightful)
Gamecube (Score:3, Interesting)
Controller (Score:3, Interesting)
They come out with neat stuff and sometimes it's just fan-fucking-tastic: Look at your current controller and think for a second about what company brought those out first. Look at your current handheld game: If it isn't a DS or GameBoy variant, it is likely inspired by the GB.
They come out with neat stuff and sometimes it just tanks: Virtual Boy, power glove, power mat and the like.
If I'm interested in consoles that take chances and try to do new things, I'll go with a Nintendo. If I just want a console that is just more of the same, but faster then I'll go with a PS or XBox.
I like Nintendo because I think that, despite not having the most impressive specs, they do more to push *gaming* forward - gaming as an experience - than anyone else. Sony and MSFT might have faster stuff or prettier pictures, but there's nothing really different about their systems.
Personally, I hope the Revolution lives up to its name. I, for one, will be getting one upon release, while I will almost certainly be waiting at least a year for an XBox 360 or PS3.
The Revolution guaranteess at least 2nd place (Score:5, Interesting)
As long as it works without being overly glitchy, they at least clinch 2nd place.
They are promising to deliver the back library of the NES and SNES already. And you have clean backwards compatibility with the Gamecube, and this will keep the owners of gamecubes happy. And while the installed base of the Gamecube may not be as impressive as the Playstation 2, it is not inconsiderable either.
So you can get the nostalga buyers. And unlike the DS, I can easily imagine games that would use this tech that I would want to play. This has real possibilities.
Simply looking around in 3d space is now a resolved issue. Its blindingly intuitive to that purpose, and that alone will make many games much more playable.
Put a cursor on the screen, and you have a very viable mouse replacement. RTS games become much easier to do. You could probably make HomeWorld playable on a consle. Can you imagine doing that on existing consoles?
And while the video of people playing games with the controller shoes no shots of the actual gameplay, it does serve one important purpose. The fishing, 'conducting music', and other types of gameplay do demonstrate one thing. This controller will permit gameplay types that simply are not possible right now. And even if conducting an orchestra is not likely to appeal to the 16 year old, counterstrike demographic, it will appeal to some people. It will pull in entirely new sorts of gamers.
Between Nintendo loyalists and the new players, it can probably clinch 2nd place. And if the 3rd party publishers are intrigued enough to make a serious effort to port their games to exploit this controller, it can likely unseat Sony in the number 1 position.
END COMMUNICATION
boring analysis; here's mine (Score:3, Interesting)
fact is that the Revo is going to be cheap compared to the 360 and PS3, and that physics-based gameplay with a natural, "3D" input system is going to be fun as hell to play. not only will canonical genres like sports, FPS and racing games be freed from the abstract stupidity of the "2D" standard controller, but a whole new market for whimsical and amusing physics-based mini-games and puzzlers will be instantly created. we're already seeing this market emerge on the mouse-and-keyboard interface of the PC, so just imagine what could happen if a standardized "3D" controller were at the center of it all. because there is no question that such games are loved by casual gamers and a wider, as yet untapped gaming audience, the only concern is whether or not nintendo will allow this market to flourish by releasing (or allowing downloads) of such $10-25 gems.
in that regard, the "home" button on the Revo controller is the real story here; if it takes me to a one-time fee per game, download-on-demand dashboard, i'll be sharing a gaming heaven with a lot of other people.
i think the Revo controller is what companies like EA have been looking for too. their own executives have been noting that their sports games at least are becoming repetative and derivative, and that this is starting to hurt year-over-year sales. merely slapping even fancier graphics on an old product is only going to improve sales so much, if at all, while also increasing development costs. the Revo controller frees companies like EA to innovate gamplay in a way we havn't known since the dawn of 3D graphics in general. you don't think they are going to want to take advantage of that kind of novelty while simultaneously avoiding the graphics arms race defining PS3 and 360 competition? LOLERSKATES.
finally, let us not forget that the Revo console includes ports for standard gamecube controllers. not only does this ensure backwards compatability, it ensures forwards compatability for ports that use a more "traditional" controller input system.
frankly, i'm pumped. the Revo has got me excited about the next-gen consoles in a way that PS3 and 360 didnt at all.
New demo for revolutions controller is out! (Score:5, Funny)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v507/mousedown/
Nintendo has lost it (Score:3, Insightful)
The most important thing for a console to succeed is to have a plethora of truly outstanding games available for it.
Whether a game is good or not has relatively little to do with the capabilities of the hardware or the uniqueness of the controls. It has to do with the artistry of the game designers and the ethic of the developers. Developers should not try to push hardware beyond its comfort zone (no slow frame rates or laggy scenes, please), and the designers should focus on fun gameplay and appropriate difficulty.
Nintendo's own games are nearly always outstanding, but Nintendo seems completely clueless about how to get other companies to make great games for its systems anymore.
Produce a console with over 200 games at launch and a quality-to-crap ratio of over 70% within that library, and you'll have a winner, period.
Re:Who CARES? This was done before (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:Who CARES? This was done before (Score:4, Funny)
Holy crap, way to rob me of any illusion of youth that remains in my mind. Thanks.
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Re:Who CARES? This was done before (Score:4, Interesting)
It most certainly did not.
The powerglove only had digital values for movement: up, down, left, right and center. No analogue movement. It also tracked forward and backwords in a way that it would tie these to existing controller inputs(punch forward as the "a" button in punch out).
As such, even the general settling of your arm would cause mario to jump off the cliff and force you to re-"center" the PG by hitting a button every 2 seconds. Above that, twiddling your finger to make a button happen was far from intuitive.
Every demo produced at TGS showed that this interface is smooth, responsive and intuitive to use. Not to mention it looks lke a helluva lot of fun.
Parent
Re:Nintendo should pull a Sega (Score:5, Insightful)
If Nintendo was a Sega then we would probably would have never seen some of the great games that have come out and are coming out on the DS because they would have had to develop for other people's(Sony)'s platform. The only reason Sega did what they did was because that was the only other choice besides going bankrupt. Sega was losing tons of money and could no longer afford to design and manufacture new devices, so they were forced pretty much against their will to become a software only company.
Nintendo isn't exactly losing tons and tons of money likeRemember, Nintendo has only had 1 unprofitable quarter, and a big reason for that was Nintendo did not accurately predict the large downward swing in the dollar(hurt a company that measures profits in Yen). However, they have since taken corrective measures that shield them a bit from currency fluctuations....
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Re:It's a thin string they're hanging from...SOLUT (Score:4, Funny)
Uh, they could patent it.
Parent
Re:It's a thin string they're hanging from... (Score:5, Insightful)
Your message contains the reason why this is not a serious problem for Nintendo. History shows through every generation that controller add-ons extremely rarely do well if they require game support. (In fact, "our system will have tons of add-ons" has become one of those things they just say every generation and most of us have learned to ignore.) How many games are there for the dance mat? The light gun? etc. Obviously, the answer is not zero, but it is extremely rare for a totally new controller to ever achieve significant penetration. As a chicken-and-egg consequence, nobody makes the games for the controller.
I don't think Sony and Microsoft can match this in the current generation. Whether they try in the next depends on what happens with the Revolution, and whether this represents a new two-part gaming industry, 18-34 males and everybody else. Even if they try, they'll probably end up with an inferior copy that nobody will code games for.
MS and Sony can't "answer" this, certainly not now (it'd just give legitimacy to the idea, and their strategy is almost certainly going to be to mock it as openly as possible), and not later (when it'll be an "add-on" to an established system that nobody will buy, and if there is pressure to "answer", that basically means everybody already has a Revolution). Their next chance will be ~2010 in the next generation.
That's why this is such a daring play for Nintendo. If this works, they will own this space for 5-7 years, in almost exactly the same way they own (currently) the portable space. Doesn't mean it's the whole of gaming, doesn't mean it'll "kill" MS or Sony, but the big N doesn't have to to make the big bucks.
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Re:PA said it best (Score:4, Insightful)
Not quite *that* much though. Games on the Revolution will be based on gameplay, not graphics. Since the biggest slice of budget in making a game is in the ultra-realistic graphics that use every available feature of the hardware acceleration, games developed for the the Revolution will probably require a much smaller budget, making the risk that much lower, and the sales number required to become profitable also lower.
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