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XBox (Games)

Xbox 360 Not Hi-Def Enough? 108

Posted by Zonk from the can't-you-love-me-for-who-i-am dept.
News for nerds writes "One of the features touted for Xbox 360 is its requirement for games to be 720p and 1080i HDTV resolutions, dubbed The HD Era by Microsoft. Today it's revealed and discussed in the official forum of Bizarre Creations, the Project Gotham Racing 3 developer, that in the final review build for PGR3 the in-game races are actually rendered in 1024x600 to get constant 30fps/2xAA. The game is stretched to 720p (1280x720) in the upscaler, which is faking HD at best." As always with late-night forum mutterings, imbibe with a grain of salt.
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Xbox 360 Not Hi-Def Enough? More

Xbox 360 Not Hi-Def Enough?

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  • See my post of earlier today [slashdot.org] on the HD-supporting updates for the Halo games. Upsampling again? ;-)

    • Re:Oooer (Score:4, Informative)

      by Guspaz ( 556486 ) on Friday November 11, 2005 @09:19PM (#14013106)
      No, Halo isn't upsampling, you're just expecting too much from a meager 1.5x change in resolution. The actual resolutio n difference between 480p and 720p is only 50% extra. It's really not that much. The jaggies on the pistol are obviously due to polygon clipping or some other phenomena, since they happen in exactly the same place no matter the resolution.

      If you look more carefully at the chunky wires, you can clearly see that the xbox 360 ones are higher resolution. It looks about consistant with what I'd expect from half again the resolution.

      There is no doubt in my mind that Halo 2 is shown at 720p, the problem is that Bungie admitted they used an imperfect analog capture card to take the 360 screenshots, while they had a digital feed of the original xbox. The analog capture card obviously degraded the quality a bit, making the already slim advantage all the more slim.

      I think another contributing factor to the wires is that they aren't being antialiased in the 360 screenshot. Obviously they're not polygonal. Makes sense, considering how many polygons they'd use up, and the original xbox's limited capacities. It is possible that all the wires are really a semitransparent texture, or perhaps they're done similar to how cables are done in HL2.

      • Re:Oooer (Score:1, Insightful)

        by Seumas ( 6865 )
        Sadly, all the polygons and horizontal lines in the world won't make up for having a really shitty (for FPS or strategy gaming) interface and controller.

        Sit and play Battlefield2 or Counterstrike or Quake at a computer. Now sit at a console with one of those fugly hand controller stick things and play Halo. Notice the difference? That difference is the sucking in control.
        • You get used to it to the point where it plays OK. Yeah, it's no mouse and keyboard, but it isn't as bad as you make it out to be.

          Keep in mind here I don't even own a console, so I obviously don't get much practice. Still, it doesn't take me long after sitting down with one to get used to it. Do I suck compared to a PC? Yes. Can I get along? Sure.

          I think the Revolution might make things significantly better. Can't wait to try it for an FPS.

        • Re:Oooer (Score:2, Troll)

          by Zangief ( 461457 )
          Blah blah blah.

          Go and try to play some racing game with keyboard/mouse. It sucks and it doesn't hold a candle to playing with a control pad.

          The problem with PC players is that there is a group of them that want EVERY GAME to be a FPS. And the pc gaming market shows it, as most of it is FPS.

          Such an unimaginative crowd, the FPS fans...
          • Go and try to play some racing game with keyboard/mouse. It sucks and it doesn't hold a candle to playing with a control pad.

            Yes, it's a known fact that there is no way to attach a PS2/Xbox controller to a PC with a $12 adapter from Radio Shack. Especially not this one [radioshack.com].

            • <sarcasm>Yes, it's a known fact that there is no way to attach a PS2/Xbox controller to a PC with a $12 adapter from Radio Shack.</sarcasm>

              But what current commercial PC games take advantage of four such adapters plugged into my PC's USB hub? I want shared-screen multiplayer gaming a la Bomberman, Smash Bros, etc. Which titles should I choose?

              • I want a house made of gold bricks and pony to ride.

                Hey look, that has nothing to do with the original post either!

                I don't care if you can't satisfy yourself with PC gaming. I was merely responding to your erroneous claim.

                • Hey look, that has nothing to do with the original post either! I don't care if you can't satisfy yourself with PC gaming. I was merely responding to your erroneous claim.

                  The joypad was being compared to the keyboard and mouse. The contention here is that connecting four USB joypads (whether PC native or through an adapter) to a PC is as useful (or as useless) as connecting a USB keyboard and mouse to a PS2's USB ports because few top-class commercial games are designed to read and respond to them.

                  • The contention here is that connecting four USB joypads (whether PC native or through an adapter) to a PC is as useful (or as useless) as connecting a USB keyboard and mouse to a PS2's USB ports because few top-class commercial games are designed to read and respond to them.

                    Actually the contention was that racing games sucked on the PC because you had to use the keyboard and mouse. He said:

                    Go and try to play some racing game with keyboard/mouse. It sucks and it doesn't hold a candle to playing with a contro
              • Bomberman and Smash Bros are hardly current but if you're willing to go back a bit, sure, there's 10 player Bomberman supporting both local and networked players, Serious Sam with splitscreen + network, games like Worms that don't need more than one controller and tons of fighting games [himeyashop.com] (if you google for the manufacturer names you'll find downloadable demo versions for most, Melty Blood and Eternal Fighter Zero are the highest profile ones). Plus all those freeware versions of pretty simple games like Tetr
            • Yeah? And does that include an adapter to play Burnout 3 on your PC?

              No?

              Then shut up.
        • I'm familiar with console FPS games, but I have to admit that it is much harder to coordinate shooting and turning with a controller than it is with a mouse an keyboard. This is hopefully a spot the Nintendo Revolution's new controller can help with (but who knows). I think that these next generation systems might want to consider some sort of specialty controller which can fix the problem. I'm sure that something a little more intuitive than a controller for FPS games might help sway more PC FPS gamers

      • Re:Oooer (Score:1, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward
        "The actual resolutio n difference between 480p and 720p is only 50% extra"

        852x480: 408,960
        1280x720: 921,600

        That's about a 125% increase in the number of pixels.

        • Re:Oooer (Score:2, Informative)

          by The Clockwork Troll ( 655321 )
          Widescreen DVD is content is typically 720x480, but your point still applies, it's more than 50% more pixels..
        • I'm talking about along the vertical axis. The number of pixels in total is irrelevant, the fact is that there are 50% more scanlines. That's not a whole heck of a lot.
          • But the computation costs (at least those that are influenced by the resolution, transformation and lighting doesn't get more demanding in HiDef) aren't per scanline but per pixel so talking only about scanlines is ignoring a part of the problem.
            • We're talking about the visual perception of Halo 2 looking better on the 360. Computational power doesn't enter in to it, nor is it really relevant.

              The original XBOX had, if I recall correctly, a GPU that was somewhere between a GeForce 3 and a GeForce 4. The 360's graphics processor is MANY times faster, so 125% more pixels onscreen isn't really relevant. The problems only show up on the CPU side, since it is the CPU that has to do full blown emulation of a Pentium 3, and at the same time has to remap API

      • Re:Oooer (Score:3, Informative)

        by mrgreen4242 ( 759594 )
        Hrm. 480p is AT BEST 852*480 = 408960 pixels. 720p is 1280*720 = 921600 pixels. 921600/408960 = ~2.25 more pixels. At worst, 480p is 640*480 = 307200 pixels, giving 720p 3 times the overall pixel count.

        I could be wrong, it is late.

        • Re:Oooer (Score:1, Redundant)

          by Guspaz ( 556486 )
          50% more pixels along the axis, not in total.
          • What does that have to do with anything? Why would it matter how many more pixels it had in one dimension on a two dimensional display?

            • Re:Oooer (Score:3, Informative)

              by Slarty ( 11126 )
              Because for whatever reason, perceptually, it seems to be the number of vertical scanlines that matters most. That's why anamorphically encoded widescreen DVDs are actually stored with full vertical resolution, while the horizontal is squished and then scaled during playback. That way you get a whole bunch of perceived extra resolution for the entire picture, even though you don't have any extra horizontal resolution.
              • DVDs are stored stretched like that because the DVD spec calls for an NTSC signal. You simply can't put a widescreen video file and have it still be a DVD. The choices for getting a widescreen movie onto a DVD would be putting a letterbox video file into the NTSC frame, losing about 25% of the available information space; OR you can put the film stretched onto the whole frame, use 100% of the storage available, and then stretch it out on the display.

          • Re:Oooer (Score:1, Redundant)

            by king-manic ( 409855 )
            50% more pixels along the axis, not in total.

            50% more along each axis makes the rendering ~twice as much power intensive.
      • I have no idea what this particular HD Halo argument is over, but I believe you just tried to claim the difference between 840x480 and 1280x768 isnt really distinct...

        HAHAHA.

        It would be interesting to see what framegrabber Bungie used. I'm not really sure how you go about storing 720p content.

        • It would be interesting to see what framegrabber Bungie used. I'm not really sure how you go about storing 720p content.

          It's actually just via an analog capture card of some kind. Because the antialiasing and even apparently the resolution upgrade are done in the videochip's integrated 10 MB of RAM, it seems to be really hard (impossible?) to do a normal frame capture on a dev system. The real game should look significantly better than these screens, obviously. This incidentally is also part of the reason a

          • I don't know nothing about nothing, but I know when you make a screengrab from a dev kit, you're just dumping the contents of Video RAM. The technical process is as follows: "Hey Computer, you know that frame buffer you're about to draw to the screen? Just write the contents to this file. Thanks, you're a peach." It's more likely there is no easy way to dump the video RAM yet on the 360 dev hardware, or the guys at Bungie who wanted to show the pictures couldn't find someone to do it for them, since they w
        • No, what I'm trying to claim is that while there is certainly a difference between the two is not enormous. Is there a difference? Yes. Is it a huge earth shattering change? No. The reason that people are doubting that Halo 2 is running at a higher resolution is because they are expecting too much out of a meager resolution increase, and don't know what to look for to verify that a resolution increase actually took place.

          When comparing two resolutions visually, the total number of pixels doesn't matter; tha
      • "1.5x change in resolution. The actual resolutio n difference between 480p and 720p is only 50% extra."

        720p is 1280x720 or 921600 pixels per frame.

        480p is 720x480 or 345600 pixels per frame.

        In other news, the area of a square 2x2 is not twice that of a square 1x1. (ducks)

        • Sigh. For the last time, the visual difference between two images is primarily in the number of vertical lines of resolution (480 or 720). 2x the number of pixels does NOT lead to a 2x perceived increase in quality. Exact pixel counts only matter for discussion the computational difficulty, NOT how much better it will look to the user.

    • Lazy (Score:1, Redundant)

      by Eightyford ( 893696 )
      We're lazy man!

      ^ his previous post:

      But they're not simply upscaling, the game is actually rendered at 720p, so it will have sharp edges, and sharp-to-semifuzzy-textures. It will look just as sharp as a PC playing at 1280x720. It looks a bit odd, though. Take this screenshot [bungie.net] as an example - there are some really lumpy pixels on the cables and archway to the left of the picture. Actually, I've just spent the last ten minutes making some rubbishy animated GIFs comparing differences between s
  • Ask youself what you would do with this game on your PC. Would you run it at full 1080 with 10 frames per second or at the released resolution at 30fps? I think they did the right thing. -rich
    • What if the XBOX 360 was intended as the main gaming platform for a company for the next five years and they touted it to be incredibly powerful and include high definition support and then they couldn't even manage to make games run on that "high end" hardware today at more than 30fps without toning down the quality?

      Oh wait. That's exactly what is happening.
      • What if the XBOX 360 was intended as the main gaming platform for a company for the next five years and they touted it to be incredibly powerful and include high definition support and then they couldn't even manage to make games run on that "high end" hardware today at more than 30fps without toning down the quality? Oh wait. That's exactly what is happening.

        What if you considered that it might just have something to do with the quality of the programming?

        • Re:What if this game was on a PC? (Score:4, Insightful)

          by badasscat ( 563442 ) <basscadet75@NOspAm.yahoo.com> on Friday November 11, 2005 @09:23PM (#14013122)
          What if you considered that it might just have something to do with the quality of the programming?

          So you're saying Bizarre are bad coders? Have you ever actually played one of their games? Specifically any of the games in this series, going back to the original Metropolis Street Racer on Dreamcast.

          Bizarre have always gotten the most out of the hardware they're working on, even if it's early in the console's lifespan. There are, even today, few racing games on the Xbox that look as good as the first PGR, and that was a first-wave title.

          Let's assume you're right, and that Bizarre is not getting much out of the Xbox 360. That would suggest, at best, that the system is incredibly difficult to program for. If some of the best and most experienced racing game coders in the world cannot manage true HD on the system, what hope does anyone else have?

          I think it's more likely that the 360 is just underpowered. That's the price you pay being first to market. The max res the 360 even supports is 1080i, and you don't even hear MS talking much about games that'll utilize that - all the talk I've heard has been about 720p, and now we're hearing that even one of those games, from a great developer, won't even really make that res. Something ain't kosher here.
          • Let's assume you're right, and that Bizarre is not getting much out of the Xbox 360. That would suggest, at best, that the system is incredibly difficult to program for. If some of the best and most experienced racing game coders in the world cannot manage true HD on the system, what hope does anyone else have?

            I'll de-hyperbolize that paragraph for you. Fair warning, it'll no longer be as sensationalist when I'm done.

            Let's assume you're right, and that Bizarre is not getting all the performance Xbox 360 o

            • It may indeed be difficult to program for. The whole triple-core PPC thing is sorta 'sexy' console design over practical console design. After all, we know that Apple is jumping ship, and from Carmack's responses we know that there is a real performance gap between PPC and x86. Hell, screw that line of thought. Are you seriously telling me that the PPC is an ideal gaming platform, when I'm sitting in front of a G4 Powerbook right now?

              Besides, can you even imagine writing game code that saturates 3 process

          • So you're saying Bizarre are bad coders? Have you ever actually played one of their games? Specifically any of the games in this series, going back to the original Metropolis Street Racer on Dreamcast.

            What, you mean the same Metropolis Street Racer that had to be recalled in the UK because the developer left a bug in there that meant that you lost half your accumulated Kudos points every time you completed a certain type of race - making game completion impossible? The same Metropolis Street Racer that
            • What, you mean the same Metropolis Street Racer that had to be recalled in the UK because the developer left a bug in there that meant that you lost half your accumulated Kudos points every time you completed a certain type of race - making game completion impossible? The same Metropolis Street Racer that was due for release with the console on 9th September, 1999, but didn't actually see a release until 3rd November, 2000?

              You're right. They aren't bad coders. Just sloppy. And yet I still love 'em.

              The word
              • The word among developers is the 360 is underwhelming. Unless it's a smash hit many 3rd party studios may over look the 360.

                Not your presumably fictional Bioware employee again... please, name several major 3rd party studios that are clearly ignoring the 360. Public statements only (or similar), please.

          • The max res the 360 even supports is 1080i, and you don't even hear MS talking much about games that'll utilize that - all the talk I've heard has been about 720p, and now we're hearing that even one of those games, from a great developer, won't even really make that res.

            All Xbox360 games support 720p and 1080i (I can find you links that confirm this, but I feel lazy so hopefully you can just trust me). Presumably MS is focusing on talking about 720p because it generally looks better. The issue with PGR3 is

          • Re:What if this game was on a PC? (Score:1, Insightful)

            by Anonymous Coward
            "The max res the 360 even supports is 1080i, and you don't even hear MS talking much about games that'll utilize that - all the talk I've heard has been about 720p, and now we're hearing that even one of those games, from a great developer, won't even really make that res. Something ain't kosher here."

            With a fast-paced game I'd take progressive scan over interlacing. 1080i is effectively 30 Hz, which is just-about noticably not smooth when you're doing interactive stuff with it (motion blurred video looks f
          • I agree with your post. Given that Bizzare had to use a lower resolution to get it to run at 30fps seems to indicate that it is a graphics card bottleneck. Specifically, it's a problem on the pixel shader end, since that's the only difference for varying resolutions. This means that the graphics capabilities aren't all that great on the XBox 360, and hence it can't really handle 1080i/p using various nice-looking effects (assuming that the current pixel shaders used are at least decently efficient). Further
        • My point, exactly.

          If you're touting how awesome your hardware and developer kits are, why would you allow your developers (in-house or contracted) to half-ass it?
      • What if the XBOX 360 was intended as the main gaming platform for a company for the next five years and they touted it to be incredibly powerful and include high definition support and then they couldn't even manage to make games run on that "high end" hardware today at more than 30fps without toning down the quality?

        First Generation games are always less than perfect on new consoles. The developers just made a tradeoff for more eyecandy and slighty less resolution. Really no big deal since even five y
        • I have to doubt that. Televisions with HDTV screens are already pretty prevelant and affordable. They don't have an adapter, but I doubt you need one to play XBOX 360 in HD (just like your Comcast digital cable box has an HDTV converter inside to use HDTV).

          Hell, I've had mine for almost six years and I didn't pay that much for it. And it's even 60". So a standard sized screen today has to be pretty affordable...
          • Define 'affordable'? My 19 inch widescreen HDTV cost me around $800 Canadian. Granted, it doubles as an LCD monitor, but that's still quite expensive.
          • Have to disagree with your comment there. Affordable?

            I can pick up a 32" standard flatscreen TV here in the UK for £200 - £300. The same size TV with HDTV support would set me back £1,000 - at LEAST. That was an offer I just saw online, and it expires tomorrow. Regular price £1,100.

            So, what's affordable?
          • I own a million dollar home, my wife and I both make six figure incomes - we're not rich, but we have a bit of disposable income. HDTV is about 50 spots down on out list of things to buy. I will not pay thousands of dollars for a TV, especially when I have to turn around and pay extra just to get content that takes advantage of the better picture. I'm happy for you that a) you have a few thousand dollars to spend and b) that having a cleaner picture is worth it to you...
    • Or you could drop the detail and other graphical effects to hit 30fps. I've never heard of a console deveoper doing this; if it isn't up to speed, they scale back the detail.
      • Or you could drop the detail and other graphical effects to hit 30fps. I've never heard of a console deveoper doing this; if it isn't up to speed, they scale back the detail.

        Considering that most people will not be playing this game on a true hdtv I think they made the right compromise. They retain all the effects at a good frame rate at a higher quality than most TVs that will be used to play the game. Most people have HD ready TVs or standard TVs. Not many have true HDTVs and those that do have 720p TV

  • How about this grain? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    As always with late-night forum mutterings, imbibe with a grain of salt.

    As always with Slashdot posts about Microsoft, imbibe with a grain of "Could /. be more predictable?"

    Is it just me or is the constant Microsoft criticism (valid or not) just, well... boring?

    • I don't really see how this is a jab at Microsoft. It seems that Bizzarre studios are the ones that have actually done this, and not MS. On the other hand, I never thought I'd be defending MS.

  • From the link... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Seumas ( 6865 ) on Friday November 11, 2005 @09:29PM (#14013140)
    By now you've already heard how Xbox 360 puts you at the center of the most powerful games on the planet--hence the "360," as in 360 degrees (geometry students will recognize that as the number of degrees in a circle).

    So that's who this is being marketed to? People who are so stupid and ignorant and uneducated that you have to explain to them what the "360" refers to? What, did we just fall out of the sky? (Meteorological students will recognize that as the big blue thing above our head when we're outside).

    • Going around in circles? (Score:5, Funny)

      by technoextreme ( 885694 ) on Friday November 11, 2005 @09:41PM (#14013204)
      So that's who this is being marketed to? People who are so stupid and ignorant and uneducated that you have to explain to them what the "360" refers to? What, did we just fall out of the sky? (Meteorological students will recognize that as the big blue thing above our head when we're outside).
      Hey remember. A revolution is nothing more than a 360. At least the Nintendo and Microsoft will not be going around in circles with their newest systems. I think I may be aproaching this discussion in a roundabout way.

    • Re:From the link... (Score:1, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      >So that's who this is being marketed to?

      Imagine how hazy things would be if they had called it Xbox 420. ;-)

      Pun intenddd. *cough* *cough*

    • Re:From the link... (Score:3, Insightful)

      by forkazoo ( 138186 )
      "Explanations" like that are usually there to make stupid people feel smart. The really dumb ones all think that they are smarter than every body else, so while that's pretty much all they remember about geometry, they will think that they are some sort of elite literati because they understood it.
      • I'm sorry, but that doesn't make one bit of sense. At best, it just proves how stupid Microsoft's XBOX division things the population is (and to a degree, I can't fault them there). But come on, not knowing what "360" refers to is like staring blankly when someone uses the expression "cart before the horse". Geometry class or not, you know it from... well... living. Television, books, skateboarding, driving... Do you really think there is a single individual over the age of ten in all of North America that
        • Well, the sad thing is, there probably are a few. But, I must have stated my point poorly - the explanation is targeted at the people who already know, so that they can be led to believe they are smarter than the imaginary group of people that would need the explanation.

          Those are the people who are also stupid enough to get caught by stupid marketing bullshit like that - whenever they hear about XB360, they feel smart, so they develop a slight positive association with the console. Believe it or not, ther
    • "People who are so stupid and ignorant and uneducated that you have to explain to them what the "360" refers to?"

      I don't think that one needs to be stupid or ignorant to get the 360 reference. I'm sure that plenty of people got sick of caring about all of the numbers attached to computers and related projects a long time ago, and simply don't think about them at all.

    • What, did we just fall out of the sky?

      No. In Soviet Disneyland, sky falls on YOU! [skyisfalling.org]

    • Xbox 400
      Xbox 10_Pi
      Xbox 6400
      Xbox 6.28318531
      Xbox 4 * arcsin(1)
      Xbox (4/3 * Pi * r^3) d/dr / 2 * r^2
      In other news, marketroid goes with the flow

  • games need to look their best at all res's (Score:3, Interesting)

    by NeMon'ess ( 160583 ) <flinxmid&yahoo,com> on Friday November 11, 2005 @09:38PM (#14013192) Homepage Journal
    Depending on how Sony and MS have designed their systems, this is going to be a challenge for developers. Most gamers will be playing at 480p, while the minority have 720p or 1080i available. The games need to look great and run smooth in both SD and HD. Anyone know how the systems have been designed to accomodate this? Which is more likely; when rendering HD some effects or polygons will be reduced, or will standard def renderings just run at higher framerates?

  • Compatability list (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Wyatt Earp ( 1029 )
    Has M$ released a list of Xbox games which will work with the Xbox 360 yet?

  • What's the point if the graphics suck? (Score:3, Informative)

    by higuy48 ( 568572 ) on Friday November 11, 2005 @11:22PM (#14013582) Homepage Journal
    I just ran by Best Buy and stopped for five minutes to observe a couple of people playing King Kong on a 360 that was in a glass case. It was on a high-def widescreen setup. It SUCKED. I think I saw these effects already in Metroid Prime. Nintendo is right: We can't really do to much if all we do is up the glitz ante and polygon count. What's the point of the hi-def if it's not getting me better games?

    As if the graphics weren't crappy enough, the game didn't look like any fun either. Hellooooooooo...
    • It's going to be REALLY funny when Zelda: Twilight Princess comes out and looks about as good as the 360 launch titles (and plays much better, too). $400 system with no games, or a $99 system that comes with a fun pack in game (Mario Party 7, Mario Kart, or whatever Nintendo is packing in these days) and has games out that look as good as the 4x as much console (Zelda and Metroid 2)... tough choice.
    • Perhaps you should have looked at any of the following:

      Project Gotham Racing 3
      NBA2k6
      Gears of War
      Call of Duty 2

      I'm getting sick of an obvious troll being modded up by MS bashing. But i'm sure it's pure coincidence you picked the one that was a rush job port from the XBox 1 instead of a native game, right?
      • Perhaps you should have looked at any of the following:

        Project Gotham Racing 3
        NBA2k6
        Gears of War
        Call of Duty 2

        I'm getting sick of an obvious troll being modded up by MS bashing. But i'm sure it's pure coincidence you picked the one that was a rush job port from the XBox 1 instead of a native game, right?

        Project Gotham Racing 3
        NBA2k6
        Gears of War
        Call of Duty 2

        out of those, only 1 may move the console, and only if it turns out to be exactly what it promises. Basically their all sequel filelr that some peo

        • out of those, only 1 may move the console, and only if it turns out to be exactly what it promises. Basically their all sequel filelr that some people are excited about but most aren't.

          PGR1 was the second best-selling launch title for the Xbox1. It was the second game to hit one million units, and its sequel also did tremendously good business. I think it's a pretty safe bet that PGR3 will sell consoles, especially with how amazing the graphics are. That kind of thing is very important for a system seller a


          • Assuming you aren't lying (Bioware has already announced they are doing at least two exclusive X360 titles) your friend is apparently a bit of an idiot. He presumably isn't an actual developer at Bioware (janitor, maybe), but it probably should be pointed out that Bioware isn't really known for taking advantage of fancy hardware anyway. Their games have always sold on the strength of their gameplay and stories, never their usually average graphics. If you are seriously being honest please don't trust your f
            • " Given that the machine is now 3 years newer it is only ~2-3 times more powerful." In part of that range you give this thing would be beating out Moore's law (if you equate transitors to performance.. which isn't exactly valid.. so it is really even better) and otherwise it is just meeting it. That isn't unimpressive whatsoever.
              • Moore's law (as approximately applied to home computing) is that performance-per-price doubles every 18 months. So for three years it should be 4 times more powerful - more if it costs more.

                Mind you, Xbox was launched in late 2001, Xbox 2 in late 2005, so there's a 4 year gap, which should equate to about 6 times more power.
              • " Given that the machine is now 3 years newer it is only ~2-3 times more powerful." In part of that range you give this thing would be beating out Moore's law (if you equate transitors to performance.. which isn't exactly valid.. so it is really even better) and otherwise it is just meeting it. That isn't unimpressive whatsoever.

                It's over all power isn't something that is common knowledge. it's numbers stat that it has 3 times the clock cycles as it's predisessor (3.2 GHZ vs 733 MHZ) and has 3 cores. The in

  • Performance Troubles (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Earlier today I was mentioning how it was understandable that Nintendo would avoid High Definition support because of the potential Performance problems; many people (some of which would probably be XBox 360/PS3 fans) claimed that it was a weak excuse because those systems had the power necessary to render anything regardless of the resolution.

    By looking at the following benchmarks you can see how resolution effects performance:

    FEAR:

    1280x960 http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1883897 ,00.asp [extremetech.com]

    1600x

  • Load Times, anyone? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by fujiman ( 912957 ) on Saturday November 12, 2005 @01:16AM (#14013981)
    While Sony and MS are whipping out their HD hooters for the high-res pissing contest, does anyone besides me worry that loading all that data will take forever?

    I mean, if the stupid game will barely fit on a DVD... or even worse, require Blu-Ray... where is all the talk about super-high speed memory busses and uber-fast drives with ginormous buffers?

    This is engineering, folks, and there's always a tradeoff in engineering. All that HD ain't free. And most people won't even care if it's 480p or 720i.

  • That bizarre res happens to be the exact res of most ultra-portable systems; 1024x600. I wonder how it looks on our 8.9 inch widescreens. I dont think its going to play so well with a touchscreen, but thats ok. ;)

    My question is, how can I get that much data onto my laptop to try it out. I dont think there'll be anything which fits in my PCMCIA slot which can framegrab a 720p stream, encode & feed my system a mpeg. Do they even have pci solutions for that? I suppose I could stream from a desktop, bu
  • I guess they think they can get away with "faking" HD because most countries outside of the US and Canada don't use HD much, the UK is serverly laking and has only just started selling HD ready TV's. They must think that if they dont get caught by the majority, no one will notice.
  • Most poeple don't own HDTVs, so why waste performance on HD that only a minority will appreciate, if you can use the power on more performance that everyone can enjoy?
    If somebody buys a Blu-Ray player, they're going to be buying it because they want to watch movies in HD.
    Most people who will buy a 360 won't be too intersted in HDTV, they want to play the newest games.
  • While this sounds like a ugly hack to fake the advertised resolution, im not so sure on the reasons, might simply be that they couldn't exactly predict how fast the real XBox360 is going to be and ended up with a few more polygons then it could handle, so instead of cutting the poly count playing around with the resolution is far easier to increase the fps a bit. Thats kind of one of the problems when you have only development kits that aren't the final hardware, wouldn't even be the first time. Many early

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