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Fix Your Crashing X-Box 360 With String
Posted by
CmdrTaco
on Sun Nov 27, 2005 11:18 AM
from the at-least-you-have-one dept.
from the at-least-you-have-one dept.
mkraft writes "A gamer fed up with his new Xbox 360 crashing every 20 minutes has fixed the problem by raising the power supply off the ground with some string. Goldeneyemaster over at the GameSpot forums indicates that the main reason for his Xbox 360 freezing up is the power supply overheating. The solution is to lift the power supply off the floor and allow the air to circulate better around it."
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It's Still An Improvement... (Score:5, Funny)
Rubber feet (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh, and keep it out of the carpet..
Re:Rubber feet (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Xbox360 Ad: (Score:5, Funny)
re: My xbox360 is broken! (Score:5, Funny)
Your string is on its way!
Thanks,
Microsoft Support
Re: My xbox360 is broken! (Score:5, Funny)
We have decided to deny your warranty request to replace the external power supply and deny your request for a complimentary Microsoft XPCool Strings(tm).
The reason for this is that you have not used your unit according to the specifications.
As per the instruction manual included in MS Word format on the XBox 360's hard drive, it clearly states in section 361.27.5a(iii) the following:
"As an additional winter bonus, we have provided you with a power supply that doubles as a personal block heater, this block heater must be set up by suspending over the cardboard box provided with the XBox360. Failure to do so can cause system instability or fire.
If your friend or family member has thrown away this box, please purchase an additional usage license for that friend or family member as you are clearly in violation of the EULA (as this the console is provided with a single user license); we will provide you with an extra box for power supply suspension along with the additional license upon request"
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How 20th Century (Score:5, Funny)
In summer? (Score:5, Insightful)
Your girlfriend doesn't play games ? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Your girlfriend doesn't play games ? (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
string (Score:5, Funny)
From the EULA (Score:5, Funny)
Who is the manufacturer? Where is it manufactured? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Who is the manufacturer? Where is it manufactur (Score:5, Interesting)
Made in China.
It could easily have been a management problem too... As frickin' huge as the thing is, it's possible it was even larger during development, and the management word came down "the PSU must be smaller! Otherwise the japanese won't buy it. Consequences be damned!", and it turns out this was the smallest they could get it.
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Power supply true story (Score:5, Interesting)
I went back to report and had a very hard time from the product manager (it was in fact so bad that half way through the meeting I told him I had to switch out of the language we were using back to my native English because I did not want a grammatical error to turn into an "admission" in a court of law.) But in the end he gave up.
The engineers then gave me lunch and told me that everybody knew that the project manager had specified to the PSU manaufacturer that the unit had to work up to 35C free air - completely failing to allow for its being used on a carpet, on top of a hot TV, or even on top of the TV covered in magazines. Nobody could understand what sort of a house he must live in that he was unaware of how the box was actually likely to be used.
The HSF solution... (Score:5, Funny)
Two HSF @ $7.49 - $14.98
Two Arctiv Silver tubes @ $8.99 - $17.98
A reasonable total of $32.96 to solve yet another MS oversight.
that's odd, the PS doesn't get very hot... (Score:5, Informative)
First of all, I separate the power supply from the 360. I have my 360 in a stereo cabinet, but I have the power supply behind the stereo cabinet on the floor. I did this because it was clear from the 24" power cable between the PS and 360 that MS intended this to be possible. Second of all, I cut some small holes in the back of my stereo cabinet for airflow. These are probably about 6 square inches total. Additionally, I don't close the cabinet completely, so I have some airflow out the front.
I also have been experimenting with fans just to see the effects. Here's a set of measurments I did with the front opening cracked a bit. This is the temperature in the stereo cabinet space (about 8 cubic feet) containg the 360.
0:00 - 73.4F (ambient)
0:30 - 89.4F
0:50 - 94.8F
1:10 - 98.1F
1:30 - 100.2F
1:50 - 101.7F
2:10 - 102.7F
2:30 - 103.5F
Then I turned on the fan in the cabinet and the temp dropped to 98.8F. With the fan on, I could close the front door completely and the temp still only rose to about 100F.
Clearly this thing is a heat monster! If I measure the temp at the output fan it, it has risen over 115F.
But, I have checked the power supply in back cursorily, and it just doesn't get all that hot on its own. This makes sense, given that if the PS is about 80% efficient, then only 50W is being dissapated by the PS back there, and 200W is being dissapated by the 360 in front.
So, although I haven't had any problems, my recommendation would be first of all, get your 360 out of that confined space. It just generates too much heat for that. Second of all, even in a semi-confined space, get the power supply away from the 360, preferably get it into its own "cooling zone".
For sure, do not put the power supply directly behind the 360 in any kind of smallish space! The 360 draws air in at the back, at the lower of the two fans (on the right if it is laying down). If you put the PS right there, it will not only block the airflow, making the 360 take in its own exhaust, but it will also heat up the intake air even further.
My guess is people who are having this problem, and don't have the 360 in a small, sealed space are mostly just putting the PS in a bad place, and putting it on strings, is just a complicated form of relocating it so it isn't there heating up the 360 intake air.
Re:that's odd, the PS doesn't get very hot... (Score:5, Funny)
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I have another solution (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:I have another solution (Score:5, Funny)
Darwinizing xbox fanboys/girls is not the solution.
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Re:I have another solution (Score:5, Funny)
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Doesn't work for PC (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Quality Repairs (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Quality Repairs (Score:5, Informative)
If a power supply gets hot enough to fail under normal conditions, it's not a very efficient or well-designed power supply.
Modern switching power supplies should be able to function at temperature extremes without failing. Power supplies are mature technology; there's really no excuse for this.
Maybe MS should have gone with a well known high quality PSU maker like ASTEC for this.
-Z
Parent
Re:Quality Repairs (Score:5, Interesting)
People manufacture or design bum power supplies all the time. It seems like once or twice a year there is a story on Slashdot about a major power supply recall. At least this one hasn't burned someone's living room down yet.
Who knows what happened with this incident. When I see an ID mishap such as this, it's usually because some idiot at a manufacturing plant in BFE didn't adhere to a design spec.
Since this problem didn't seem to show up with during the small preliminary manufacturing runs, and designers / engineers usually run heat and environment tests, it could probably be a problem with final manufacturing.
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Re:Quality Repairs (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Quality Repairs (Score:5, Insightful)
Small kids play these game systems, everyone knows that. They should be built tough. I'm guessing the Xbox 360 is probably built tough, but it only takes a single weak part to ruin all of the effort.
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Re:Quality Repairs (Score:5, Funny)
"...The basement too - not that it's freezing cold down there this time of year or anything."
But how long would it stay cold with your 360 down there? :p
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Re:People who live in cramped quarters (Score:5, Funny)
Personally I don't see what's so interesting about this whole solve-a-problem-using-string story. Now MacGuyver, there's a guy who knows how to use string. I mean, in one episode of MacGuyver, MacGuyver builds a helicopter using string. And a little bit of duck tape, of course.
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Re:Quality Repairs (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:Quality Repairs (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Quality Repairs (Score:5, Informative)
The internal power circuitry of the cpu/mobo can easily "clean up" noisy power with a simple network of capacitors, however if the voltage is too low it can do nothing.
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Simpsons' Individual Stringettes - finally a use! (Score:5, Funny)
Adrian Wapcaplet: John Cleese
Mr. Simpson: Eric Idle
Adrian Wapcaplet: Aah, come in, come in, Mr....Simpson. Aaah, welcome to Mousebat, Follicle, Goosecreature, Ampersand,
Spong, Wapcaplet, Looseliver, Vendetta and Prang!
Mr. Simpson: Thank you.
Adrian Wapcaplet: Do sit down--my name's Wapcaplet, Adrian Wapcaplet...
Mr. Simpson: how'd'y'do.
Wapcaplet: Now, Mr. Simpson... Simpson, Simpson... French, is it?
Mr. Simpson: No.
Adrian Wapcaplet: Aah. Now, I understand you want us to advertise your washing powder.
Mr. Simpson: String.
Adrian Wapcaplet: String, washing powder, what's the difference. We can sell *anything*.
Mr. Simpson: Good. Well I have this large quantity of string, a hundred and twenty-two thousand *miles* of it to be exact,
which I inherited, and I thought if I advertised it--
Adrian Wapcaplet: Of course! A national campaign. Useful stuff, string, no trouble there.
Mr. Simpson: Ah, but there's a snag, you see. Due to bad planning, the hundred and twenty-two thousand miles is in three
inch lengths. So it's not very useful.
Adrian Wapcaplet: Well, that's our selling point! "SIMPSON'S INDIVIDUAL STRINGETTES!"
Mr. Simpson: What?
Adrian Wapcaplet: "THE NOW STRING! READY CUT, EASY TO HANDLE, SIMPSON'S INDIVIDUAL EMPEROR
STRINGETTES - JUST THE RIGHT LENGTH!"
Mr. Simpson: For what?
Adrian Wapcaplet: Uuuh..."A MILLION HOUSEHOLD USES!"
Mr. Simpson: Such as?
Adrian Wapcaplet: Uhmm...Tying up very small parcels, attatching notes to pigeons' legs, uh, destroying household pests...
Mr. Simpson: Destroying household pests?! How?
Adrian Wapcaplet: Well, if they're bigger than a mouse, you can strangle them with it, and if they're smaller than, you flog
them to death with it!
Mr. Simpson: Well *surely*!....
Adrian Wapcaplet: "DESTROY NINETY-NINE PERCENT OF KNOWN HOUSEHOLD PESTS WITH PRE-SLICED,
RUSTPROOF, EASY-TO-HANDLE, LOW CALORIE SIMPSON'S INDIVIDUAL EMPEROR STRINGETTES, FREE
FROM ARTIFICIAL COLORING, AS USED IN HOSPITALS!"
Mr. Simpson: 'Ospitals!?!?!?!!?
Adrian Wapcaplet: Have you ever in a Hospital where they didn't have string?
Mr. Simpson: No, but it's only *string*!
Adrian Wapcaplet: ONLY STRING?! It's everything! It's...it's waterproof!
Mr. Simpson: No, it isn't!
Adrian Wapcaplet: All right, it's water resistant then!
Mr. Simpson: It, isn't!
Adrian Wapcaplet: All right, it's water absorbent! It's...Super Absorbent String! "ABSORB WATER TODAY WITH
SIMPSON'S INDIVIDUAL WATER ABSORB-A-TEX STRINGETTES! AWAY WITH FLOODS!"
Mr. Simpson: You just said it was waterproof!
Adrian Wapcaplet: "AWAY WITH THE DULL DRUDGERY OF WORKADAY TIDAL WAVES! USE SIMPSON'S
INDIVIDUAL FLOOD PREVENTERS!"
Mr. Simpson: You're mad!
Adrian Wapcaplet: Shut up, shut up, shut up! Sex, sex sex, must get sex into it. Wait, I see a television commercial - There's
this nude woman in a bath holding a bit of your string. That's great, great, but we need a doctor, got to have a medical opinion.
There's a nude woman in a bath with a doctor--that's too sexy. Put an archbishop there watching them, that'll take the curse
off it. Now, we need children and animals. There's two kids admiring the string, and a dog admiring the archbishop who's
blessing the string. Uhh...international flavor's missing...make the archbishop Greek Orthodox. Why not Archbishop
Macarios? No, no, he's dead... never mind, we'll get his brother, it'll be cheaper... So there's archbishop Macarios, his brother
and a doctor in the bath with this nude woman, two doctors and a dog....
Parent
MS has built hardware before (Score:5, Insightful)
Microsoft has produced sophisticated hardware before, for example Z80 coprocessor cards for Apple IIs. This let Apple II users run CP/M back in the day.
OK that was a while ago, more recently we have keyboard, mice, joysticks. Not quite sophisticated, even when you toss in force feeback
The above may not qualify as sophisticated by it does show that they are also a hardware company to some degree.
And, uh, you are aware that the XBox360 is a followup to something called the XBox? I think that little piece of hardware may fall in to the "sophisticated" category.
Irrelevant. Apple enjoys an equally monopolistic position over *it's* customers and Apple is able to design some very nice hardware.
This kind of thing, and hell, this precise situation, would never happen in a company that is run by engineers.
Like a hardware company named Apple, a company that has been producing sophisticated hardware for nearly 30 years? Oh yeah, they've never shipped with bad power supplies, bad batteries that could catch on fire,
If use of Apple offends you we could use HP (pre-Compaq), Intel, or a host of other companies to prove the same point.
Parent
Re:MS has built hardware before (Score:5, Informative)
You can bet that the XBox 360 power supply was produced over in China, Taiwan, Korea, or another nation like that, where everyone else's power supplies get built too. Why does Apple have all of these well-known hardware screw-ups despite being primarily a "hardware company" full of engineers doing R&D? Same reason! When you hear complaints of inconsistent color and "pinkish edges" on the new 23" Cinema displays, exploding batteries on one model of older Powerbook, failing backplanes on revision A iMac G5's, and much more - they're primarily due to failures due to lack of quality control on shipments from these 3rd. world countries. (EG. Faulty capacitors caused the backplane problems
Parent
Re:MS has built hardware before (Score:5, Interesting)
The knowledge needed to make a large project happen is wide ranging, and not always found in a textbook, and not always found with a consultant. Supply chains, economy estimates, component interactions, assembly are truly intersting and difficult problems. The simple act of asking someone else to build something, especially if you do not understand the product, can be a major pain. And the last point about using companies that sacrifice cost for quality. That is experience. Knowing who can be trusted, and who can't.
Companies do have core competencies, and it when they merge and buy and consilidate in a fantasy that core compentencies and cultures do no matter that trouble starts. We make fun of their stupidy when the stock falls as cultures collide, but it is comments like the parent and grandparents that promote those bad decisions in the first place.
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Re:Leave it to Microsoft. (Score:5, Funny)
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They've done worse before... (Score:5, Informative)
I don't give a rat's ass about Sony's problems. I'm here to ask about the awful consumer experience I had with my original Xbox and what exactly is the truth about this new product. Here are links that show what a known issue those drives were.
http://sentientcreations.com/xboxIssues/problem.p
http://www.llamma.com/xbox/Repairs/xbox_dvd_repai
Now there's an entire market based upon replacing your Xbox's DVD drive with a better one such as Samsung.
Microsoft's support solution: clean the disc. No matter how many times you tell them the disc is brand new, they say it's a dirty disc.
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb
Then there was the power supply issue. A recall in which power cords were issued to cover up shoddy circuitry that could and did cause house fires. Mostly due to bad soldering. In the recall, older Xboxes were given power cords with breakers, so in the event of a short, you may burn out your Xbox but at least your house won't burn down.
http://s4.invisionfree.com/Popular_Technology/ar/
So a few weeks ago we started to see Xbox 360s in demo retail models showing the dreaded Error 74. Photograph of it here.
http://joystiq.com/entry/1234000480066825/ [joystiq.com]
Now we have reports of crashes that yes, are online and could be from a vocal minority, but I have never heard of or owned a console that crashes the way photographs show us is happening to the 360 - and let's remember the people complaining about it are the ones who braved the cold and the nuisance of picking one up.
http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/xbox-360/hours-old-a
Now apparently there is a fix in the form of suspending the power supply. People are finding it's working. Ergo, the power supply is defective. Just like the one on the original Xbox which was RECALLED.
Whatever marketing spiel Microsoft want to give, I want for them to answer one thing. What exactly is Error 74 and Error 79 - what does it mean is happening to the box. They have refused, as they did with the Thompson DVD drive, to let us know what is going wrong. Even if it isolated. Does it bode poorly for the future? Why is there a SPECIFIC error message already in the box's OS that is happening to people?
Now we know for certain that the machine is not only prone to overheating, there is an inbuilt error message related to it.
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/907533/ [microsoft.com]
And did you hear about how the tech support person told that guy to "wipe his video cables with a soft cloth"? Too rich.
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Re:Leave it to Microsoft. (Score:5, Funny)
They did, but the test site burned down before they completed the tests.
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Re:Leave it to Microsoft. (Score:5, Insightful)
Why would they?
Why should they incur that expense?
They have beta-tes^H^H customers out there that willingly PAY THEM $400+ to do it for them. Literally fighting each other at stores for the oppurtunity.
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Re:Leave it to Microsoft. (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:All MS jokes aside (Score:5, Informative)
I fail to see why this would be considered 'misuse' of the Xbox. It really ought to be able to live anywhere your stereo does. Especially with an external power brick that is dealing with much of the heat.
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Re:All MS jokes aside (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:All MS jokes aside (Score:5, Insightful)
Do not place the console or power supply near any heat sources, such as radiators, heat registers, stoves, or amplifiers.[/blockquote]
So where do I put it? Not everyone has a concrete pad with air conditioning running over it to play their games. This is an applicance like your stereo, like your tv, like most of the stuff people stuff into an entertainment center. It's insane that you have to have so much ventilation for a game system like that.
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Re:All MS jokes aside (Score:5, Insightful)
My most recent 20" box fan came with a manual. It says to never ever EVER put the fan in a window. The picture on the box shows it in a window. I have it in a window. It works fine there.
I have a humidifier, with a great big scary orange sticker on the inside of the lid, that actually says (paraphrased) "WARNING: If this unit becomes wet, unplug it, let it dry fully, and have it inspected by an authorized service technician before attempting to use it again". And what purpose does this lid, with so dire a warning, serve? You lift this particular lid to... FILL THE THING WITH WATER!
Virtually the entire warning section in most manuals exists solely for the purpose of helping the manufacturer fight off product liability suits. In the case of the box fan, some moron probably tried to use one in a window in the rain, and got zapped or burned his house down. That doesn't mean that I can't put a fan in the window on a nice sunny day, it just means if I do something stupid Lesko can say "see, we told you so!". For the humidifier, I don't quite know what they had in mind, but I have 100% confidence it involves covering their butts in some way.
So when the XBox360 says not to use it on a bed or sofa, which I expect accounts for where 99% of people would use it... Even those who read the warnings will tend to ignore it as just another sad attempt to protect Microsoft from morons.
Parent
Re:All MS jokes aside (Score:5, Interesting)
If they want to compete in that arena, where VCRs, DVD players, stereos, and the last generation of consoles lived (and every console before that), then they better make damn sure their hardware works in that environement. After all, *they* are the ones that want to compete in the living room. The console must conform to the entertainment center, not the other way around...the $400 purchase simply won't drive the design of a living room for 95% of the people buying one (that number was made up...but I'm sure it is a vast majority).
If this is not the case, then the XBox360, PS3 and whatever else just become another type of PC, with an entire area set up to accomodate that particular piece of hardware. Trust me when I say that this is not what most consumers want, and is certainly ot what MS (Sony) wants. If we are going to do that, just get a nice PC and game there. At least PCs are upgradeable as you go along to accomodate new requirements as games come out.
The solution? Design a friggin' power supply that doesn't overheat when it sits on a carpeted floor, or in the back of a entertainment center. It's been done thousands of times before, and we need to see this for what it is: a defect. Just like the release of the PSP, just because the manual says that "8 or fewer dead/stuck pixels are normal and not a defect." doesn't *actually mean* that 8 or fewer dead/stuck pixels isn't a defect. MS can tell us that the power supply should be placed in the bottom shelf of your freezer to "properly" set up the XBox360, but that doesn't mean that it isn't a problem with the unit.
NOTE: I am not a bitter Xbox360 owner (I don't own one at all), just simply observing from the sidelines. I agree people should do their research, but that doesn't mean the company can make whatever demands they want on the consumer in the manual and they become reasonable.
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Obligatory Simpsons Quote (Score:5, Funny)
Could you explain your model, young man?
GRIMES:
What's to explain? He's an idiot!
LENNY:
Pipe down!
HOMER:
Well basically, I just copied the plant we have now.
BURNS:
Mm-hmm.
HOMER:
Then, I added some fins to lower wind resistance. (pointing) And this racing stripe here I feel is pretty sharp.
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Re:If You Think It Is A Problem Now... (Score:5, Funny)
Sorry, pal. This is a Microsoft product.
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Re:What a fucking disaster (Score:5, Funny)
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Chances are they bought the supplies in.... (Score:5, Informative)
The main reasons for the prevalence of external power supplies or "wall warts" are that they shift regulatory compliance (UL, CSA, TUV, or whatnot) onto a third party (the power supply vendor), and enable the same basic product to be sold worldwide with different external supplies provided to accomodate local variations in line voltage/frequency/receptacle type.
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