Microsoft Sued Over Alleged Xbox 360 Defects

richdun writes "Reuters is reporting that a Chicago man who was lucky enough to purchase an Xbox 360 has filed suit against Microsoft over the overheating and crashing some users have experienced. The man is seeking unspecified damages, litigation expenses, and replacement or recall of all Xbox 360s. While more suits or a class-action is probably on the way, others have sought less litigious solutions."

Fire

[PacketScan (797299)]

Xbox Burn your house down edition.

Re:Fire

[scottennis (225462)]

Xbox 451?

Re:Fire

[dswan69 (317119)]

This is just pathetic. Things go wrong. Life isn't perfect. Products have kinks. People who bring childish lawsuits should be sent to live on the sun. If they don't like the conditions there they can sue me.

Re:Fire

[genericbrandname (936369)]

yeah if anything turn it over and put a piece of chicken on it and not only do you have a gaming maching but a grill too

Sweet.

[twofidyKidd (615722)]

The George Foreman Grill: XBox 360 Edition. Fraggin' and fryin' galore.

Self inflicted?

[MoonBuggy (611105)]

Yes, these lawsuits are stupid, but there are two things to consider here (speaking in general, I don't know the specifics of this case, but I can say that this person _deserves_ no more than a replacement Xbox and maybe $100 or a few free games to make up for missing out on the launch day fun. What they'll ask for/get is, I'm sure, another matter): firstly, if any of us can make a significant amount of money from doing very little work - why not? The system's broken anyway, others are exploiting it, so maybe we shouldn't be so hard on these people for joining in. If someone told you that you could have $1000000 for nothing except exploiting a system that's getting fucked over anyway, would you really be that bad for taking it?

That leads to my second point: whose fault is it that the legal and social structures are fucked (i.e. a judge doesn't throw out ridiculous cases _and_ a jury sides with these people)? Could it be the big evil corporations that tell people what to think? I honestly don't know, but the likes of Sony, MS, McDs etc. who generally get hit by these lawsuits are all partially responsible for the state of the 'developed' world anyway.

Maybe I'm feeling extra cynical today, but it just looks to me like the system's screwed anyway, so just make the most of it. Corporations are the epitome of selfishness, and many people are going the same way. Perhaps it's time to give up and go with the flow, because I'm losing sight of any other way to 'win' here.

Re:Self inflicted?

[damsa (840364)]

Most comsumer products class actions, you end up with some coupon which is not really worth much. The persons that win are the lawyers.

Re:Fire

[TheViffer (128272)]

No .. actually this suit, as many others need to be filed.

If a company pushes out a faulty product, they should be legally obligated to correct the problem. We seem to have very high standards for say auto manufactors whenever there exists a problem. Why shouldn't a company who is pushing a electric consumer product be under the same scrutinty.

Bottom line, were are be bombarded with crap. Dell and there "bad" capacitors, Apples scratching nano screens, Sony's PSP and now Microsoft's overheating XBox 3-POS-0 powersupplies ... and this has been in the past 18 months.

Interesting enough the later three were suppose to be "big releases". And if these four "small underfunded" companies can not put quality products, who can?

I say sue them all. Teach them that pushing crap is not going to be had and if they continue to do it, they will have to continue to replace it.

Re:Fire

[tshak (173364)]

Bottom line, were are be bombarded with crap. Dell and there "bad" capacitors, Apples scratching nano screens, Sony's PSP and now Microsoft's overheating XBox 3-POS-0 powersupplies ... and this has been in the past 18 months.


Many of these cases have to do with user issues. Nano's are small enough to put in the same pocket as your keys, do you're scratching them more often - you didn't do this as much with your bigger iPods. XBox 360's are working fine in the vast, vast majority of cases. There maybe be a few faulty units, but for the most part it is well known that these power supplies are hot and can not be placed on thick carpet. I'm all for the improvement of quality overall, and to an extent I share your sentiment that we need demand higher quality as consumers. On the other hand there are tolerances for faulty units and these tolerances are fairly low. They seem to affect so many people because you don't have 900,000 artciles on how the XBox worked, you only have one or two about a few people who are having problems. Without some tolerance for lower quality we would be paying through the nose for these products. Maybe the bar needs to be raised a little, but I personally do not want to be paying $1200 for a military grade Nano.

Re:Fire

[jonfelder (669529)]

Yet all of these things have happened. Not too mention a person's xbox locking up has much less dire consequences then the things you have listed.

Come on...sure it sucks to get your xbox home and find out it's broken, but really all you have to do is take it back to the store (that is if you don't trust Microsoft to fix it, which they are doing).

Try taking a bridge back to the store.

Re:Fire

[Fiznarp (233)]

Whatever, calm down. I've been playing mine for sometimes 6+ hours a day since Nov 22nd with the power supply sitting on the carpet. No lockups ever, online or offline. The brick on the floor barely gets warm, hardly enough to notice much less start a fire. Those folks who are having problems probably have defective consoles that should be replaced, but by no means does this mean that they all are broken. Most of the 360s sole are working just fine.

Fiznarp

Re:Fire

[j79 (875929)]

From all the media coverage of Microsofts "overheating" 360, it's obvious what the issue is. YOU got a defective unit! That's right. Somehow, a unit which doesn't overheat slipped through Microsofts QA, and was sold to you. If I were you, I'd turn around and SUE Microsoft for not allowing you to enjoy trying to rig up the Power Supply with string, so it doesn't overheat. Heck, that could be the first game included in the box! A big ole Power Brick, and a 12" piece of thread. Can you get it off the ground? Will it stay?? WHO KNOWS!?!?!? :)

Failing Units

[everphilski (877346)]

... run about 3% and are being replaced for free; please read http://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=170258&c id=14188093 [slashdot.org] and shut up...

-everphilski-

Responsibility

[Eohl (40739)]

I love that the submitter's comments seems to imply that it is somehow more noble for consumers to take the responsibility for defective products on themselves, as opposed to holding the manufacturer accountable.

Re:Responsibility

[TheFlyingGoat (161967)]

The manufacturer should be responsible for fixing the problem, not paying damages and legal fees. If the man is awarded damages for some strange reason, every company that unknowingly releases a faulty product is going to get screwed. As a result, testing costs and corporate insurance costs will skyrocket and those costs will be passed on to you and me. Hope you look forward to paying 10-20% more for your next car.

Re:Responsibility

[ucblockhead (63650)]

If the company is only responsible for fixing the problem, then there is little incentive to get it right the first time. If it's not much more expensive to release a broken product and fix it later, then it may well be in a company's best interest to release early (like before Christmas) and then fix things after the fact. (Especially since many customers won't get around to getting some of the problems fix.)

This is exactly what we see in software. Company's have little incentive to get it right the first time because they can just "release a patch". The result is that it becomes the norm for things to not work right when released.

If you want companies to make sure things work when released, you need to make it significantly more expensive to release something broken so that the free market rewards companies that take the time to make it work before releasing.

Re:Responsibility

[timeOday (582209)]

The manufacturer should be responsible for fixing the problem, not paying damages and legal fees.

That's what I want to happen when I bounce a check:
"Oops, sorry, it was an accident. Here, I'll cut you another one."

Or when I return a rented movie late:
"Ooops. sorry, it was an accident. Here's you movie, no harm, foul?"

Or when I miss a credit card payment:
"Oops, sorry, it was an accident. Here's the money. You won't fine me or anything, will you?"

Man, I only wish I could slap companies with fines every time they screw me out of some time and inconvenience. Of course in the real world it only works the other way 'round.

Re:Responsibility

[everphilski (877346)]

Remember, in each of those situations the company in question is going out on a limb for you. When you bounced that check they fronted you the money. When you returned the movie late, you denied them a potential sale. When you paid your credit card late, you withheld money that was rightfully theirs. Your basically taking out a loan in each case; you signed an agreement and that's what you get...

-everphilski-

Re:Responsibility

[timeOday (582209)]

Remember, in each of those situations the company in question is going out on a limb for you.

Forking out $400 for an XBox 360 is going out on a limb. When I fork out $400 and get nothing (but a broken XBox) for 2 months, Microsoft is witholding money that is rightfully mine. All of this is going on the assumption that I eventually pay my bills and Microsoft eventually delivers a working product. If you can't see the symmetry of the situation, it just shows how indoctrinated you are.

Re:Responsibility

[ch-chuck (9622)]

More nobel?

To sue, or not to sue: that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The quirks and crashes of an overhot X-box,
Or to file suit against a sea of lawyers,
And by suing, correct it? To wait, to call;
To call: perchance to connect: ay, there's the rub;
For in that call to support what help may come
When we have shuffled off the automated attendant,
Must give us pause: there's the respect
That makes calamity of so long wait;
For who would bear the whips and scorns of support,
The oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely,
The pangs of despised love, the law's delay,
The insolence of office and the spurns
That patient merit of the unworthy takes,
When he himself might his quietus make
With a bare bodkin? Perhaps I should just
purchase a Playstation?

Re:Responsibility

[Eohl (40739)]

Normally I'd agree with you 100%, I'm non fan of excessive litigation. The problem as I see it is that this seems to be an actual hardware defect...or at least a design defect. In any case it isn't something that would be fixable via a patch. A responsible company would recall defective hardware, which seems to be the main thrust of the lawsuit.

Re:Responsibility

[ScentCone (795499)]

What kind of wanker do you have to be to make the leap of logic from, "This Xbox sucks, I wish I hadn't bought it" to "This Xbox sucks, and microsoft owes me a million bucks"?

The kind that hates Microsoft for the usual semi-hypocritcal idealogical reasons (but really want to play the games) and are not-very-secretly delighted that an MS product has a problem. It's a chance to publicly whine about MS, paint them as somehow evil for not making a carpet-proof power supply, and to enter the lawsuit lottery. He's not expecting to actually win a lawsuit, he's just hoping for a settlement that will net him a few thousand bucks for being the squeeky wheel. Why he didn't just ask for his money back used to be beyond me, but juries of no-job-having-hate-The-Man idiots have been demonstrating again and again that (no matter how ill-conceived), any suit against a large company is a likely cash cow.

All of the poisonous anti-corporate/business rhetoric actually gets to some people and they begin to think that companies actually owe them something just for existing, and owe them a lot more if they are in any way inconvenienced. This is a cultural problem, made worse by a media-based celebration of victimhood and misfortune-as-fortune. The prevailing sense of entitlement is truly astonishing, and this is just another sorry example.

Of course, it also says a lot about the loser gamer involved that he had so much of his personal happiness tied up in whether or not he could run is XBox's power supply on the carpeting. Of course, that's BS - he's just reaching for cash.

Stop global whining before it's too late.

This is one thing I don't like about this country

[the_humeister (922869)]

Anyone can sue anyone else no matter how stupid it is, and there won't be any repurcussions except more money for the lawyers. What we really need is some system in place where the loser pays to further discourage stupid lawsuits.

I think there's some sci-fi book where the loser and his lawyer dies. That might work too, but I don't think most people would go for that.

If you think making the loser pay is a good idea..

[CyberLord Seven (525173)]

then try this on for size.
The RIAA takes you to court, pays outrageous legal fees (which they can afford), files for extensions, appeals and whatever until you run out of money and can no longer defend yourself.
Then you lose.
Now you have your legal fees, plus theirs!
Do you still think making the loser pay all legal fees is a good idea?

Why not just return the thing?

[aflat362 (601039)]

If you aren't happy with the 360 why not just take it back? Why does everything have to resort to a law suit?

Re:Why not just return the thing?

[by Anonymous Coward]

Money.

Re:Why not just return the thing?

[SA3Steve (323565)]

So you would sue because you had to wait in line and decided to fight with other customers? Should you sue Best Buy then or wherever you bought it from? How about the customers who decided to start fighting? Did you spill some coffee during this fight? You could probably sue for that.

If I purchases an XBox 360 and it wasn't working, I'd be pissed...and I'd call Microsoft and demand a replacement. If they rejected that, I'd put a stop order on the credit card payment or I'd just return it to the store. Is this guy sueing for emotional damanges or something pathetic like that?

Re:Why not just return the thing?

[Ced_Ex (789138)]

I guess it depends on circumstance. If I just walked into a store, got a 360 and took it home and it didnt work, sure I would return it. But if I waited in line 6 hours, fought customers just to purchase a broken item for my kid who is crying, then if I called Microsoft and got the run around, hell yeah I would sue. Of course I dont have the whole story, so he could just be wanted to cash in.

Maybe those kids are spoiled and should be brought up not to whine and cry because they don't always get what they want.

Re:Why not just return the thing?

[Gulthek (12570)]

You would sue out of annoyance? You would be understanding if someone sued out of annoyance?

It would take severe bodily harm resulting from normal, advertised use of the product to get me to sue.

Like, if, the XBox 360 randomly rockets forward out of the entertainment center at my head. Or if the controllers spiked your hands, or emitted powerful electric shocks. Something, you know, that's actually serious.

oh they have...

[axonal (732578)]

"...others have sought less litigious solutions."

Oh they have [smashmyxbox.com]

don't do this!!

[akhomerun (893103)]

come on people! you know that by suing microsoft for admitting mistakes, you are only going to encourage them to cover up future problems instead of addressing them!

while I am not a fan of our "sue-happy" society...

[GReaToaK_2000 (217386)]

I think it is about time someone took a stand against companies pumping shit out to the customer before it is ready. Especially since it is obvious this was done to beat the Xmas season...

In addition, I don't like the way it was posted... "a Chicago man who was lucky enough to purchase an Xbox 360"... OH PLEASE!!!! "lucky enough" You make out to be some amazing thing... It's JUST a GAME BOX!!! Hello!!!

WoW!! When playing games is THAT important life must be truly sad.

To Paraphrase:

[DoctorPepper (92269)]

"You smell that? Do you smell that?... litigation, son. Nothing else in the world smells like that. I love the smell of litigation in the morning."

Software Beta, Hardware Beta

[fembots (753724)]

First iPod Nano then Xbox 360.

Am I seeing a commercial trend where hardware companies are increasing confident to roll out their products even if they are not thoroughly tested, simply because these companies know they have enough fanboys to buy anything they sell?

It's also interesting to see that these hardware companies are also software companies, who are regularly rolling out "beta" software to the public.

Class Action

[ehaggis (879721)]

Unfortunately it is a class action lawsuit. The individual(s) will recieve a $1.25 check 10 years from now while the lawyers rack up $400/hr fees. Microsoft will issue a non-mea-culpa and continue life as usual, short $100 million, a drop in the bucket.

The Manual

[TubeSteak (669689)]

Robert Byers, who brought the suit, said the power supply and central processing unit in the Xbox 360 overheat, affecting heat-sensitive chips and causing the console to lock up.

I'm guessing he didn't RTFM. It tells you where not to put your Xbox (carpets, enclosed spaces, etc.)

Is it a design defect if you're specifically told what the 'problem' is and how to avoid it?

FYI I'm not talking about chainsaws that can accidentally cut your face off, more like a car owners manual that says "keep your radiator topped off or else your engine will overheat." Or in this case, don't put your Xbox in certain places, or it will overheat.

MS Should Just Recall

[TheFlyingGoat (161967)]

If Microsoft just recalls all of the power adapters (which seem to be most of the issue), and replaces them with a different design that allows airflow underneath, they can basically stop this lawsuit and any others that are bound to come up. The other option would be to provide a free plastic base to all XBox360 owners that would snap on the bottom of the system and raise it up an inch from the surface.

People who sue over this stuff are worse than companies that unknowingly release a faulty product. There are better resolutions than calling a lawyer, like returning the system, waiting on a recall, or hacking it up with a string.

The perfect exchange

[AutopsyReport (856852)]

So in exchange for an overheating and crashing Xbox 360, he will be facing the wrath of an overheating Balmer (sweaty armpits, soaked forehead) and his crashing chairs in the courtroom? :)

This is getting ridiculous

[crass751 (682736)]

Have things really gotten to the point when everytime we don't like a product we sue the manufacturer? What happened to the days when if a product wasn't what we expected it to be we simply told our friends not to buy one and didn't buy from that manufacturer again? Are companies required to produce products that every single person in the world likes otherwise be victims of a lawsuit? Are standard defects valid causes for suits? We (well Slashdot population) all know that no process is 100% defect free, even a 6 sigma process still has 3.4 defects per million opportunities. Are we that litigious? How long before someone sues a restaurant because their steak was medium instead of medium rare?

This is absolutely insane.

The Man?

[gatekeep (122108)]

The man is seeking unspecified damages, litigation expenses, and replacement or recall of all Xbox 360s.

Why is that 'The Man' always has to ruin it for us?

Oh please

[radish (98371)]

You get bad units, it happens with any products. Microsoft are replacing all units which exhibit any fault, for example overheating. They overnight you an empty box, you put the defective unit in and overnight it back, then they overnight you a new unit. Total time elapsed: less than a week, total cost to you: zero dollars. That's better than most return policies in my experience. So far MS have been saying that the return rate is around 3%, which is below industry average. So again - what's the problem here? A company produced a product which has lower than average failure rates and is happily and rapidly replacing any defective units for free.

This guy doesn't wany justice, he wants free money. He's a greedy ass and should be brought to book for encouraging this insane litagation culture to feed his own pocket.

And the last thing I want is a recall - mine is working perfectly.

And

[Sycraft-fu (314770)]

That's for a non-critical item. That's better service than we get on some computers here at work, and those are at least somewhat important. A console is entertainment only. If this was a life support device, yes lawsuit. If this was a critical server, maybe. A game console? Hell no. If the company is offering less than a week turn around on reparis, I'd say you have nothing to whine about. You can either accept that, or simply take the unit back (all units are less than 30 days old).

Talk about a lot of fuss over an entertainment device.

As much as I hate Microsoft

[xutopia (469129)]

Suing every chance you get is silly. Especially since MS is replacing all defective 360s at no charge with express shipping.

I think there are too many lawyers in the world.

What's a defect?

[YesIAmAScript (886271)]

Now, I know some are just plain defective. That'll happen when you ship hundreds of thousands. There might even be more defective units than would normally be expected. That could happen to, due to manufacturing difficulties.

But a design defect? I just don't know if we're there.

I know it gets hot http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=169465&cid=141 24290 [slashdot.org]

But it gets hot because it does so much. Its regular level of consumption is 160W. That's a lot, and it all turns into heat. Despite this, the Xbox 360 has a great cooling system. It really keeps itself cool.

But, like all devices, a cooling system just moves the heat somewhere else, in this case ouside the case. So if you put it in a confied area or block the vents, it will be unable to cool itself. There is NOTHING MS can do about this.

Perhaps you'd like Xbox to take less power (PS2 uses 50W). I can understand that. But it's not going to happen. PS3 will be the same. These super-capable game machines are pushing the limits of technology and so they use a lot of power and generate a lot of heat.

So, lawsuit aside, when you evaluate your problems with 360, make sure you're not expecting MS to defy the laws of thermodynamics.

BTW, I got together an EXECELLENT cooling system for my 360 in my stereo/video game cabinet now. I'm considering writing it up. Costs a fair bit, but instead of 116F inside there with the front panel cracked an inch, now it gets to 78F (67F ambient in the room) in there with the front panel completely closed. It's so much quieter now.

Let's be fair!

[mister_llah (891540)]

A friend of mine made a post on our IRL pals forum that I thought I'd share...

"""
Lets be fair here - i'm no fanboy, but even I have to admit its not just Microsoft.

Sega Genisis - Crashes games

SNES - at launch batteries were being drained faster from cartidge then supposed to (not sure what this means)

N64 - At launch wouldn't read some cartridges

PSOne - Wouldn't read some games, laser would lways fall out of alignment, and system would overheat

Dreamcast - Overheating

PS2 - Scratch the hell out of people's DVD Movies as well as some games, majority of systems at launch would overheat

XBox - Overheating problems on some systems

XBox 360 - CPU not functional, overheating, scratching disks
"""

Glitch or Design Flaw???

[FerretFrottage (714136)]

Microsoft sued over alleged Xbox 360 glitch [headline]
"A Chicago man who bought Microsoft Corp.'s new
Xbox 360 has sued the world's largest software maker, saying the new video game console has a design flaw that causes it to overheat and freeze up...."

My car has a glitch/design flaw as well. If I start it and leave the keys in the ignition and then get out of my car and lock the doors, I can't get back into my car without modding my car's window or calling in "experts" (legally registered tax paying business, or the type registered by the sheriff's department).

I have a 360 and it does run hot....they need to have proper ventilation, probably more so than any other computer or A/V component I've ever owned. I'm not sure how well the manual states this as I never read them (hey this is /., who reads manuals), but if you take a 360 a stuff in a location that doesn't have good air flow then I'm not surprised the unit is crashing. FWIW, I have mine in an open AV rack that has plenty of ventilation and I've had the thing on for over straight hours at one point and it didn't crash on me. Not all that time was playing games--the last 2+ hours of was playing it and MCE 2005, but when you can justify the purchase to the wife by streaming HD pr0n onto the HDTV, it's worth the time.

Now was it wise of MS/partners to design it this way (to run as hot as it does and require so much ventilation)? Who knows what their design specs say. But just image taking your tower PC, shrinking by a factor of 4-5 times and then cranking up the CPU/GPU full throttle and think about how much heat would be generated. I'm not saying it's an excuse, but owners of some of the new high powered high tech toys may need to be educated on how well this ptoys work as a space heater.

Re:now way

[Twisted64 (837490)]

Bill, is that you?

Re:When in doubt...

[AuMatar (183847)]

Its called the warranty of merchantability. It basicly means that when you buy something, its supposed to do what its claimed to do, without known hazardous side effects. The Xbox360 may fail this due to the overheating.

Liability and suing

[aepervius (535155)]

Actually as far as I understand you can be liable for a product you manifacture & sell if either 1) it has knowingly a default 2) it does not respect the local norm/standard 3) it does not work as described in the manual/package (please notice that I do not say it does not work as adverstised!). Liability can involve depending on the country from replacement of the unit, partial or complete refund and in the most extreme case, recall or even severe fine and damage (mostly in case of default endangering a life).

Now this US situation is this : you can sue ANYBODY. Naturally a judge might throw your claim out, or even kick you out of the court for contempt, your claim might not even go beyond a first hearing or whatnot. Suing does not guarantee you have a claim, it only means you THINK you have a claim. See for example each year the tax protester suing the federal governement (NONE get beyond the judge throwing the claim out or even laughing and in one documented case calling the claimant a fool). So in that case, since a solution already exists (replacement of the unit) then the lawsuit won't probably go very far. That is, unless he can prove 1) that he can't get a replacement or a refund from MS/reseller or/and 2) the overheating unit involve a life risk and/or already damaged a person and/or possessions(items).

Re:It was only a matter of time.

[ezberry (411384)]

It seems that ever since going to law school, all I see on Slashdot is people incorrectly claiming knowledge of the law. The parent is a good example.

The Second Restatement of Torts, Section 402A Special liability of seller of product for physical harm to user or consumer, states:
1)A seller of a product in a defective condition is liable if
  a) the seller's business is to sell that product, and
  b) it is expected to and does reach the consumer without modifications
2) Section 1 applies even though
  a) the seller has exercised all reasonable care, and
  b) the sure or consumer did not enter any contract with the seller.

This results in a situation of strict liability.
There is also an implied warranty of merchantability, as seen in Henningsen v. Bloomfield Motors, Inc. (NJ 1960, 671).
Further, this is not about to go away in the near future as the draft of the third restatement includes clause (see the section on products liability).