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Will the Wii Work?
Posted by
Zonk
on Wed Sep 20, 2006 02:37 PM
from the like-a-charm-or-an-anvil dept.
from the like-a-charm-or-an-anvil dept.
Today BusinessWeek is running an article asking Will Nintendo's Wii Strategy Score? With the Tokyo Game Show this week, they run down the trials facing Nintendo's little-box-that-could both here in the States, and in Japan. From the article: "Few expect truly dedicated gamers to choose the Wii over the PS3 or Xbox. And ultimately, the advantage may go to Sony. Yuta Sakurai, an analyst at Nomura Securities in Tokyo, expects the PS3 to sell 71 million units by 2011, compared with 40 million units for the Wii. Microsoft, meanwhile, is planning a stripped-down version of the Xbox without a hard-disk drive and other accessories that will cost about $250 in Japan, where the U.S. software maker has endured disappointing results."
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Bogus (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Bogus (Score:5, Insightful)
I used to be a dedicated gamer (have a wife and kids, so I only play after 8pm on most days, now-a-days), and am eagerly waiting for the Wii...
Parent
Re:Bogus (Score:5, Insightful)
The Wii is in a great position to deliver exactly that. "Good enough" graphics and real, true innovation in controls for the first time in years. And since it's not an after-market product which only a small percentage of the owners will have (like the Power Glove or eReader) then developers will be able to confidently use the controller in new ways.
Parent
Re:Bogus (Score:5, Funny)
Funniest. Apple ripoff. Ever.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
That's the PS3 controller. Thanks to the sensor bar, the Wii has what's missing from the PS3: absolute positioning in space. Basically, it's a 3D mouse. And the nunchuk also sports a set of accelerometers & gyroscopes, which means that it has all the abili
Re:Bogus (Score:5, Informative)
Wrong. The nunchuk is included with the base system, so everyone will have at least one.
Parent
Re:Bogus - My turn to feed the Troll (Score:5, Insightful)
You are slightly off-base on two points. First, all Wii owners will have at least one nunchuk. It is included in the box. If they need more, they will buy more. Secondly, and more importantly, this is better than a third-party controller in the fact that it is a first-party controller that is included with the system. They are two different creatures. Dev's will be far more inclined (probably even required) to program for the Wiimote given the very fact that it comes with every system and is core to the concept.
Will there be crappy implementations tossed-off by barely competent developers? My Magic 8 Ball says, "Outcome likely." Will there be plenty of games that use it flawlessly and in ways that we have yet to consider? Let's ask the 8 Ball again, "Definitely Yes." Will playing with the Wii become a novelty or part of future interface schemes? "Outcome hazy. Ask again later."
Quit being such a troll, go enjoy your X-Box, and bugger off while others (like me) try the Wii. If it catches on, you'll either be playing with one yourself soon enough, or you'll be using some bastardization of the concept from MS or Sony. Hell, Sony already tried to borrow the idea before the full info was out and they're already appearing half-assed... if not quarter-assed.
Parent
Re:Bogus (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Bogus (Score:5, Insightful)
I still play a lot of Nintendo games, but they invariably end up coming off very kiddy, or rather "goofey". People often try to pass of "goofiness" as fun - it's not. Sure some games can be fun in spite of it, but it's not a good thing. Take Zelda: Wind Waker for example. The main hero is a pre-teen kid who is supposedly fighting monsters left and right (while adults stand around talking to this kid like he must save them). The base story is actually interesting, but it's interrupted by gimmicky things like a talking dragon boat. To top it off I'm watching this whole thing unfold via graphics that look like a Saturday morning cartoon.
Do I want any of this replaced by sex or violence? No. I want it replaced with a serious atmosphere. Try telling people that "Green Eggs and Ham" is just as good a book as "Pride and Prejudice" just because it's fun for all ages. You'll get some weird stares.
Parent
Re:Bogus (Score:5, Interesting)
The Dragon Boat was a bit silly, yes. The age of the hero- who cares? Its the gameplay that matters, and the gameplay was damn fun (except for the sailing parts).
You say to stop assuming people mean gore when they say mature. I've never seen any other definition put forth by those wanting it to be more "mature" other than blood and guts. Please tell me how changing the age and graphics style of Zelda would have made it more fun- because I honestly can't see it.
Parent
Re:Bogus (Score:4, Insightful)
"Pride and Prejudice" is an excellent book for adults; however, it's a downright awful book for pre-teen children, and most teenage children need to be "prepped" regarding the background elements of the story to actually enage in it. It REQUIRES maturity to be enjoyed.
Meanwhile, "Green Eggs and Ham" is enjoyable by children AND adults with a sense of whimsy and word-play - and also who enjoy beautifully-executed illustrations. Maturity is irrelevant to its enjoyment at any age.
You're reaching for a point regarding maturity (which is required for understanding P&P), but you're confusing "goofiness" (a style which shows up in many mature works - Thomas Pynchon, Davis Foster Wallace, Vonnegut, etc.) as being maturity's opposite. Sure, in particular contexts they can occasionally come to cross-purposes, but goofiness != immaturity.
Goofiness will often conflict with seriousness, but it's just as much a mistake to equate "maturity" and "seriousness" as it is to conflate "maturity" and explict gore/sex/language.
Parent
Re:Bogus (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Bogus (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Bogus (Score:4, Insightful)
Mario and all his buddies's games do not have any adult atmosphere to them. Aside from Mario stealing the occational kiss from Peach... Mario's buddies aren't really attractive to the 'adult theme'.
Then there's Link and the Legend of Zelda series. With the last iteration on the GCN (which was still an absolutely amazing game) they did 'kiddie-ize' the poor sword slasher. But they will make up for that with Twilight Princess. Talk to anyone and they'll probably tell you that Ocarina of Time was the best in the series. I believe it was too.
Next up, Samus Aran. You want a bad-ass chick, you've got her. Lara Croft can play with Barbie dolls and shoot at whatever and the DOA chicks can go get the breasts enlarged all day long, they'll never equal the cool of Samus. There are very adult-themed games with the Metroid series. Ever actaully read the journal entries in Prime 1 and 2? They start to inspire a lot of fear and suspense. Hell, I hated running through the dark world on Prime 2 because it got my nerves frayed every time (the only problem I had was the slow regen in the 'safe' areas, took a bit away from the suspence if you could just find a safe refuge in a hallway and walk away from the game for a few minutes).
Starfox... Poor Fox... He's really gotten the shaft. Nintendo tries to make him great, but the formula was only good in the first couple of games. I picked up the DS version and though the strategy part was very intuitive, I still don't really enjoy the combat. Here's hoping for an excellent Wii iteration.
I believe those are Nintendo's main four. But feel free to correct me if I'm wrong or I've missed something. Or just add some comments about the rest (Kirby, Earthbound, Harvest Moon...)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Bogus (Score:5, Insightful)
I disagree. "dedicated" gamers (as opposed to the ricer-type that just wants "mature" because games without blood are "for sissies") want fun above and beyond everything else. They want good, interresting, quality games.
If they're available on the Wii, they'll dig the wii, just as they're digging the DS because it has awesome game and because the stylus makes many games fun again.
Parent
Re:Bogus (Score:5, Insightful)
Four of us own Nintendo DS.
One owns a PSP.
The games are simple and fun - that's why I bought a DS (and it's much cheaper than a PSP!). I like games I can play for five minutes and then get back to work (Brain Training, Project Rub etc...). We're all in the 20-30 age range.
Parent
Re:Bogus (Score:5, Informative)
Well Squeenix very recently refocused it's handheld strategy due to FF3/DS: they tried to boss nintendo around so that they'll have a big batch of DS Lites ready fearing that low DS availability would cripple FF3 sales.
They readied themselves for sales of 300.000 on the first week...
FF3 sold 330.000 copies on the first day, the whole japan was out of stock within 4 days (with an initial shipment of 500.000).
The next week or so, squeenix announced 3 games in the making for NDS.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Graphics are good in theory, but new ways to play games work far better.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
If the Wiimote actually works as expected, then I think both the "hardcore" gamers AND the casual gamers will snatch this console up. The hardcore gamers will get it to experience a truly innovative gaming style (and for only $250, why not??) and the casual gamers will get it because a) it's cheaper than the others (again, only $250!), b) it's got Mario Brothers/Zelda/etc, and c) the Wiimote looks cool.
The Wii will Win. 'Nough said.
Re:Bogus (Score:4, Insightful)
I am all about the casual gaming, and the wii fits right into my mindset. Something that I can pick up, burn a hour or so and get back to work. Or something my wife can get into as well (hard to phrase that without inviting a lot of sex jokes).
But all in all, I see PS3 and XBox as teen status symbols and hard core gamer items. The People who do use the xbox and PS3 use it so much it is no fun to play with them unless you can keep up with the hours they put in. Dont want any part of that, waste enough of my life as it is on games.
The wii on the other hand is going to fit quite nicely into my entertainment center. From the games I see, I would have no problem inviting my friends in picking up a game of golf.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Here's the problem - I think us in the 'tech' community are a little biassed towards the Wii. Sure, we're hardcore gamers, but we also love rooting for the underdog. We're also more willing to be open-minded than most peopoe. Sure, everyone on Slashdot and Digg love the Wii. But if you know anyone who's not in IT and is not a 'nerd' they a)won't know what the hell the Wii is b)will dismiss it off-hand because of Nintendo's 'kids' reputation.
I wish p
I'd say yes.. (Score:5, Insightful)
As everyone knows the PS3 will be sold at a loss throughout most of its lifetime, while the Wii will be at an unknown profit through its lifetime. I'd say thats pretty successful if they sell anywhere in that area. Even if they only have $1 profit per console thats a lot more profit than -xx million.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:I'd say yes.. (Score:5, Funny)
"Yeah..."
"How does he make any money selling them below cost?"
"Oh, he sells a -lot- of them."
"Ah."
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Sony has a huge ulterior motive called blu-ray this round.
Re:I'd say yes.. (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Re:I'd say yes.. (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Dedicated Gamers (Score:5, Insightful)
Wii-doubting articles - the biggest thing... (Score:4, Insightful)
We're seeing quite a few articles in that style right now, and I predict we'll see several more before the Wii launches. Creating controversy is an easy way to get hits. And controversy is easily generated by suggesting that a point that was generally considered to be long-established ("THE WII WILL BE THE BEST THING SINCE SLICED BREAD!!!") may be incorrect ("...but will it work in the marketplace?!").
> Few expect truly dedicated gamers to choose the Wii over the PS3 or Xbox. And ultimately, the advantage may go to Sony.
The very point of Nintendo's strategy is that the truly dedicated gamer won't be their core audience and in fact only a small fragment of their audience. This seems like a non-issue to me.
Bad News (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Everyone keeps talking about Wii's multiplayer possibilities, but none of the launch window games are going to be online-enabled. This means you're going to have to play multiplayer with people ::gasp:: in close proximity to you!
Kidding aside, is anyone else worried that he won't have enough room in his living room to fit 2-4 people with arms flailing wildly as they try to us
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Of course it will. (Score:3, Informative)
The fact that Nintendo's console is selling for a profit also means that they don't have to sell a bunch of game titles to get into the black -- if a person never buys another product from Nintendo after the console purchase, they've already made money.
I think it will work for the price point (Score:4, Interesting)
A $250 Wii? HELL YES! The price point alone is what does it for me. That and the new controller just makes it a lot more interesting then the same old systems with new graphics.
I think this will work really well for them. This will be the christmas present to buy for years to come.
Wii gets the highly vied after commune contingency (Score:3, Interesting)
My four-point argument for the Nintendo Wii:
1. Legend of Zelda with sword-swinging.
2. Metroid Prime with controls that rival PC controls. (Oooooh! A slogan: "Metroid Prime: get inside Samus")
3. 4gb flash memory for under $50.
4. $250
I however do not really like any of the Mario Kart sequels nearly as much as the original. So yes, Nintendo can break my heart. Will they? I hope not. I don't even think it probable.
Sounds like an old DS critique to me.. (Score:3, Insightful)
It's getting old (Score:5, Informative)
and more: "Though the Wii doesn't boast all the features and processing firepower of its rivals, Nintendo believes its easy-to-use controller will give it an edge."
And finally: "There's also a danger that the Wii could cannibalize sales of the DS, which has been a smash hit with casual gamers thanks to its user-friendly design and titles..."
Acording to Wikipedia, total sales of the DS and DS Lite are over 26 million world wide. This is equal to their Gamecube sales and that has been out since 01. I'd say we can call the DS and DS Lite both successful. Seeing as sales for the DS Lite are still hot, I don't expcect that comined number to sit under 30 million for long. The author is full of it, or a fanboy. He obviously hasn't done a lot of research. Nintendo is no longer hoping that the DS will appeal to anyone. Now they know.
As far as the Wii goes, I know plenty of people who wouldn't buy a Gamecube because of its lack of 3rd parties. Though I own many games that are frequently requeseted when we get together like Mario Kart and even Robotech Battlecry. Well, ever one of these people is positively raving about how much they want the Wii. We'll see what they (and I) think after release. But I haven't heard one person say they don't want it. Reasons? Cheap, looks like fun, and "My [significant other] actually wants one too."
Nintendo won't have a problem with this gen.
Never owned a console in my life (Score:5, Interesting)
That said, the Wii is the first console I've actually considered buying. If the first 6 months look good for it, and someone makes a light-saber game that works with the Wii-mote, I just might buy my very first console.
What I am not interested in is a $3,000 system, which is what the PS3 or XBox is to me. $400-600 for the console. $1,4000-1,800 to replace my 48" projection with a similar sized HD projection. $200 for a few games and a controller, and $200 for new HD or Blue ray movies to take advantage of the HD tv and player.
For $250 I can hit the ground running with the Wii. Another $200 for a few games and a controller and I'll be pretty set for entertainment for the year.
-Rick
The Wii ha sa built in advantage (Score:3, Informative)
The 360 and PS3 may sell more consoles, and those people may buy more games. But you need a lot more more 360/PS3 games sold to compensate and surpass for the profit loss the companies are taking on the consoles.
I mean, look at the books of Nintendo vs. the Microsoft home entertainment division. Microsoft has way more boxes in the field, but is still way in the red. Nintendo is well in the black. And that's all that really matters in the long view.
This is getting really f-ing old (Score:5, Insightful)
AND I DON'T GIVE A FLYING FUCK ABOUT THE GRAPHICS ARMS RACE!! I WANT INNOVATION, NEW EXPERIENCES, QUALITY GAME DESIGN, AND HAVE A SHITLOAD OF FUN ALONG WITH IT!! THAT is why I can't fucking wait for the Wii to come out. It may not be the second coming, but the DS has proven to me that Nintendo means it when they're going for fun over graphics power. And if WoW, HL2, RE4, Shadow of the Colossus, and other games like them have taught us anything it's that you don't need the ridiculous power to have wonderful graphics.
So all those people saying "Wii won't sell to 'true' or 'hardcore' gamers" or "Wii is for casual gamers, non-gamers, and families only"...you can all fuck off. You wanna prove you're more hardcore than me? Let's hop in a Halo PC or Tribes: Vengeance server and I'll show you what a real gamer plays like.
And no I'm not bitter
Who says you can only have one console? (Score:3, Insightful)
Wii will make it (Score:4, Insightful)
Number 3 - PS3: The theoretical processing power in their 8 cells is fantastic. I've had it explained to me a few times by my friends (who also happen to be computer engineers), and it sounds like, if done correctly, *for the correct game*, it can be a real thing of beauty. 8 mini processors working in parrellel sounds great! However, if you know something about programming, you know that memory dependence is pretty important. For instance, if you do a simple loop, you have various operations dependent on one or two iterators. Let's say you assign these iterators to its own processor (yeah, stupid, but it's an example, k?) then that processor will be INACTIVE for LONG periods of time while another processor does it's thing. So in the most optimal circumstances, the cell technology is amazing, but in it's least optimal, you may as well be using a 386.
Now the problem isn't that the cell power can be optimized, it's just that there's NO TOOLS TO DO SO AT THIS TIME. That's right, it's up to DEVELOPERS to optimize their own code, and I'm going to be honest, the learning curve and time that's going to be spent doing so is just not going to help this system.
There's LOADS of other problems, too. Lack of units. High unit cost. Expensive cables that (opps!) aren't included. The fragility of the Blue Ray CRC (it's so dense that one tiny scratch can destroy an entire disc because it stops the error correction from even being able to do its job). And the lack of any real online system to be demonstrated.
No question, this complete LOSER this round is PS3. It's time to move Sony next to Sega at the E3 conference. I bet those two will have lots to talk about.
Number 2 - Xbox360: The Xbox is in a realm of its own. It focuses on games that are not innovative, but instead improves ever so slightly on older paradigms. In this, those "hardcore" gamers who enjoy playing the best shooters on a *controller* will enjoy the XBox (yes, I know they're coming out with new controls). Bloodlust, violence, action, and adrenaline are all emphasized in the XBox gaming system. Plus, it has a well established community of online players. Nothing new, nothing impressive, nothing to write home about, but very very consistent. Will not reach a wide interest, but reaches out to a market that is quite full of young angry males. And by quite full, I mean full enough to build an entire business off of them.
Number 1 - Wii: This is not because I was raised on Nintendo. It's not because I owned the Mario/Zelda Cerial, subscribed to Nintendo power throughout the 90's, got up early as a kid to watch Captain N and the Super Mario World TV shows, owned mario comic books, and even paid to see that crappy Mario Bros. Movie. I had all but abandoned that company after my two fav gaming companies, Squaresoft and Capcom, left Nintendo. I'm supporting Nintendo because after ALLLLLL these years of CRAP... I'm amazed to find a company that puts out a QUALITY PRODUCT, who gets THIRD PARTY SUPPORT for this product, who INNOVATES the market using this product, who will successfully INTEGRATE other products into this product, and who has made this ANGRY YOUNG MALE feel like a DOE EYED BOY again. Part of me wants to ask Santa for this machine just to relive the feeling of not being able to sleep at night, waking my parents up to go around the Christmas tree in my footies to open the biggest box first and show a level of enthusiasm that only a kid on Christmas day could muster at 4am.
Where to start? Old games. All of them. Downloadable (small price, price I'm willing to freaking pay). Eventual online play. Wifi. Wii controller. The most amazing Zelda game to date. DS connectivity. Reasonable price range. Company profit. Innovative games like Mario Galaxy. The return of third party support. And the list goes on and on and on and on.
Yeah, hey, this guy is clearly out of touch with what it means to be a gamer if he thinks that people are all about the PS3. In fact, fire this man. He's a bad reporter.
Re:Wii will make it (Score:5, Informative)
This is entirely inaccurate. They were demonstrating tools at GDC for this, and various vendors have engines already available. Also recall that the PS2 really was bare metal on release; it remains the most difficult of the last generation, and yet it was the top seller with the most games. And the PS3 is said to be very familiar to those who worked on the PS2, so...
Yeah yeah, it's the PS2 all over again. [salon.com]
Are you talking about HDMI? They're under $10 [mycablemart.com]. Which cables did you mean?
Well, since the Blu-Ray DURABIS2 can withstand steel wool [tgdaily.com], you'd really have to be mistreating that disc.
And XBOX Live! was going to kill the PS2.
The 360 is in the realm of FPS's and sports games, just like the original XBOX. Contrary to popular opinion, frat boys who play Halo are not hardcore gamers. They're casual gamers. Hardcore gamers are the ones that play all the games, especially the obscure and oldschool ones. They import the original before it comes out locally. They might have an XBOX, but only because they're completionists, not because having an XBOX makes them hardcore.
That is, you're a closet fanboy who has been waiting all these years to come out. Yeah, I grew up with Nintendo too, and read the magazines, saw the shows and movies, and didn't think much of anything else (Sega what? Sony who?). That said, "QUALITY PRODUCT" is premature, "THIRD PARTY SUPPORT" is hopeful, and "INNOVATIVE" is hype. Do you love your Wii? Is it bad? [youtube.com]
Actually, the virtual console launch list [play-nintendo.com] is only 26 games. 26 games I've played, too. This is ni
Parent
Lemme break it down for you... (Score:5, Interesting)
It's coming. And it will mean Wii will be the platform to beat. The Lucasfilm presentation at Comic-Con showed some of the other aspects of coming Lucas Arts games, like the Euphoria system which allows for truly unpredictable NPCs, and introduces a little bit of volition in the Player Character as well. The demo only made sense when you thought of it in the context of the Wii and its Wiimote.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjlFTihRwAk [youtube.com]
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Games like Zelda and Mario are going to be million-sellers on the Wii, no doubt, but the Wii will probably get its first "general consumer" surge once a Star Wars lightsaber game comes out. While a good deal of people know who Mario is, EVERYONE knows what Star Wars is. All it will take is seeing someone in a game store swinging the Wiimote wildly, seeing that their actions are being reflect on screen with a lightsaber, and their next thought will be "Holy shit, I have to get this".
Lightsaber
WTF are "truly dedicated gamers"? (Score:4, Insightful)
Come again? Who the hell are those "truly dedicated gamers" that prefer a 360 or a PS3 to the Wii?
I have in my living room right now about a dozen consoles - from the Pong to the Gamecube. I have about 30 more consoles stored in various places. I own tons of new and vintage consoles. I also own portables. I own a PSP, a DS, and every version of the GBA. I am a "truly dedicated gamer" if there ever was one. Guess what? I haven't yet bought a 360. When it came out, I thought I'd get one about a year after release, but so far, there's simply nothing which compells me to buy one. I probably won't get a PS3 until late in its lifespan, either. There's simply not a whole lot of stuff going on with those two "next-gen consoles" that excites this particular "truly dedicatd gamer." Same games with better graphics? Sign me up... Not!
I'll get both a 360 and a PS3 - as soon as some really compelling and interesting games come out for them, and as soon as the prices start to reach less absurd levels. For now, neither console interests me all that much.
I will, however, get a Wii the day it comes out.
Because I'm a "truly dedicated gamer," not despite of it.
Re:They're delivering what we want (Score:5, Interesting)
Somewhere along the line "dedicated gamer" seems to have been hijacked (by the media presumably?) to mean something like "compulsive graphics whore who will brainlessly follow whatever the newest trend is." Maybe it happened back when FPSs became the big thing when every "dedicated gamer" seemed to be upgrading their graphics card every other week in order to be able to play the latest game. Regardless of when it came about however i don't think that interpretation has ever fit me, and i like to consider myself a dedicated gamer, though perhaps one who has somewhat lapsed in recent years as i've had to learn how to balance gaming, a social life and a career. There may may be a few people out there that fit that negative stereotype but i really hope that the gamers who are actually _dedicated_ to their hobby are actually intelligent and thoughtfull people who will put more thought into their purchasing decisions than that. But perhaps i'm beeing hopelessly optimistic.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Yeah ... ... all had nothing
- The fact that the DS had games that were fun (and incidentally took advantage of the touch screen)
- The fact that the DS provided a huge library (or an amortized cost) since it played GBA games
- The fact that Nintendo was a virtual monopoly in handheld gaming when the DS launched