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Galactic Civilizations II Breaks DRM Mold
Posted by
Zonk
on Sat Mar 11, 2006 04:59 PM
from the who-needs-drm dept.
from the who-needs-drm dept.
Machitis writes "A recent news item at GalCiv2.com says, 'Our license allows you to install the game onto as many machines that you own that you want as long as only one copy is being used at once. How many sales are lost because people want to have a game on their laptop and desktop and don't want to drag CDs around so choose not to buy the game? [...] we were quite disturbed to discover that the company that makes Starforce provided a working URL to a list of pirated GalCiv II torrents. I'm not sure whether what they did was illegal or not, but it's troubling nevertheless and was totally unnecessary.'"
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Copy Protection Firms Encourage Piracy? 90 comments
Ars Technica has a reflection on the revelation that StarForce had linked to pirated versions of Galactic Civilizations II. From the piece: "It's not hard to see why the publishers use the stuff; after all, no one wants to spend a couple of years on a project only to see their efforts rewarded by flat sales and a robust pirate market. Still, in the quest for better protection, these copy protection schemes have grown in both sophistication and invasiveness. Some schemes now install their own hidden device drivers that monitor your computer's optical drive access, trying to prevent copying and other unapproved uses. (If this sounds familiar, it should. Game copy protection, after all, is just another form of DRM.)"
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Lawsuit Against Ubisoft for Starforce 106 comments
Cyber Akuma writes "Due to Ubisoft's intentional use of the highly controversial copy protection scheme Starforce, despite user protests and purposeful deletion of any forum discussions about the protection, Christopher Spence has filed a 5 Million Dollar lawsuit against the company for use of the crippling DRM in their games. Starforce has been reported to cause system instability, slowdowns, and possible damage to optical drives. As well as questionable business practices when dealing with customers and other companies, which has been reported on Slashdot before."
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what assholes... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:what assholes... (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
So lets do the decent thing (Score:5, Insightful)
thats clearly illegal so...
http://www.theesa.com/piracy/index.php [theesa.com]
I've already reported them, the mroe who do so, the better.
Parent
Re:So lets do the decent thing (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Yeah (Score:4, Insightful)
Their half-ass copy protection is easly bypassed and if don't have IDE optical drives it's like there is no protection at all.
Parent
I think their customers should sue them (Score:4)
From what I understand, it's one of the easiest copy protection schemes to break. If I'm a company that paid good money to implement Starforce into my product to help curb piracy of my game, I'd be majorly pissed off because:
A. It doesn't stop piracy at all and is easy to break.
B. I would be getting a ton of complaints from legit buyers of my game that Starforce has broken their CD or DVD drive capabilities in one way or another.
They should sue them for not delivering a product that works. It's money out the window.
Parent
Re:Yeah (Score:4, Interesting)
Parent
Re:what assholes... (Score:5, Interesting)
Previously, I have defended starforce on the basis that it does do what it advertises; hell I have seen warez forums where people actually complain about how hard it is to get around it. Its not terribly difficult to get past, but most people are too lazy to go through that much effort to play a game, so their approach does work to an extent; they cant stop piracy but they can make it a real pain in the ass. But having bought GalCiv2 the day it came out via their online-delivery system, this type of shit makes me regret my prior defenses. I have no problem that SF wants to make a copy protection, even if its invasive and overbearing, but once they go out and then take a fairly independant game like GalCiv which doesn't have major publisher backing and then hold it out on a stick as an example of the failure to copy-protect, complete with torrent links, that just means you're a giant asshole who gets no sympathy when people attack your products, legitimate or not.
Parent
Re:what assholes... (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:what assholes... (Score:4, Informative)
Careful there. Sersious cracking groups are not dumb by any means. They had to destroy the first two generations of Starforce protection, along with pretty much everything SecurROM and Safedisc has come out with.
Parent
There you have it, perfect proof (Score:5, Insightful)
Starforce encourages piracy.
Re:There you have it, perfect proof (Score:5, Informative)
What he did might not be illegal over there.
But yea, talk about being an A-Hole.
Screen shot of the StarForce thread: http://www.galciv2.com/temp/starfo2.jpg [galciv2.com]
Parent
Re:There you have it, perfect proof (Score:5, Insightful)
What he did might not be illegal over there.
Legalities aside, what he did is certainly extremely hypocritical considering later in the thread he points to the forum rules and says anyone else posting links to pirated materials will have their posts deleted.
http://www.star-force.com/forum/index.php?showtop
Parent
Re:There you have it, perfect proof (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:MODs! What the heck are you thinking! (Score:4, Funny)
"You must be new here..."
Parent
Even game demos! (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Even game demos! (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't know that it makes that big of a difference if somebody's going to reverse the copy protection. I imagine protecting each successive patch a different way makes for a bigger headache. They've gotten so clever that they occasionally fail to permit my use of the games after I buy them, so I've mostly stopped buying or even playing them (although I did buy Galactic Civilizations, which is among the best games I've played, and shall buy Galactic Civilizations II because its creator doesn't engage in this wankery.)
Parent
Re:Even game demos! (Score:4, Interesting)
Anyway, that's how I understand it based off what another slashdotter said.
Parent
UT creators remove CD-Checks shortly after release (Score:4, Interesting)
Nice touch
Parent
Makes me wonder... (Score:5, Insightful)
I was an early adopter (Score:4, Informative)
Re:I was an early adopter (Score:5, Interesting)
Well what you say makes a certain amount of sense, but here's an alternate view:
First, both good reviews and good developers sound like good reasons to consider buying a game. Good reviews for the obvious reason, good developers because i like to support such behavior. One can make a good theoretical argument that one should judge the merit of a piece of art solely on the basis of the work itself, completly isolated from the context of the artist(s) who made it. Although i understand the reasoning behind the argument i do believe that the actions of the artist should influence your judgement to some degree. If the artist is actively working to bring about changes to society that you disagree with then any interest you have in their work should be mitigated by the knowledge that supporting them will support a cause you disagree with. Likewise if the artist is working to support views you agree with then choosing to support their work in preference to other artists whose work may be technically superior but who are not "fighting the good fight" is a completely valid position.
Furthermore, those who played the first GalCiv already know that Stardock has a history of not only listening to feedback from the players but incorporating those changes into completely free patches and add-ons. Everything they've said so far indicates that they plan to do the same for GalCiv2 as well, which greatly mitigates any fears i have about purchasing an unplayable or even just unenjoyable game. And if you did play the first GalCiv, consider how much you paid for it (about $50 in my case i believe) and how much enjoyment you got out of it compared to other games of the same price. In my case the amount of time i spent playing it and the enjoyment i got out of those hours far exceeded what i gained from many other games that i paid just as much for. Personally i feel i "owe" Stardock more than the original $50 i paid for the first game, and as such paying another $50 for the second game is well worth the risk. If the second game turns out to be mediocre or worse then i can consider my karmic dept for the first game to be repaid and be more wary when and if they release a third game in the series.
Parent
Re:I was an early adopter (Score:4, Interesting)
In other, shorter, words: Judge art solely on its artistic merits, pay for art based on a whole view of what your money gets you and what will be done with it by the person you give it to.
Parent
Good on them (Score:5, Insightful)
The trust model can work.
Gaining the trust of your user base WILL be beneficial.
If you treat them fairly, they will pay you back.
As long as the torrent sites follow the DMCA rules (as it suggests the one in the article does) then the piracy can be tamed (and having lots of well intentioned customers warning them of torrents will help)
Word of mouth will get this game far, I wonder just how many torrent downloaders will purchase this game vs an EA game?
Does high downloads turn into high profits?
I see something similar happening with Serenity, I saw it months ago after downloading it, but today went out and bought a copy.
I want to tell Wheldon and the backers I support it and want more.
talk about sour grapes ... (Score:5, Informative)
And it is the most effective way to prove his point that I'm aware of, so I'd like to give the Starforce guy the benefit of the doubt (as odious as I find copy protection and DRM and similar things), even though he probably should have considered how his comment would be taken -- piracy of a program that's sold by somebody who is not their customer is NOT ANY OF HIS BUSINESS, even if it does suggest that his software is great or something (it's not, but I digress.) (And really, even if this were a customer of his, posting a link like this is bad form. A screen shot of how many people are involved in the torrent would have proven the point almost as well, and get him a lot less flak.
However, the point that he's trying to make is easily rebuffed by simply posting another link (or many other links) to software that was protected by Starforce and yet people are still downloading it, because the protection has been cracked, either via things like SecuROM or a cracked binary that removes the Starforce checks. Copy protection negatively affects those who paid for the software the most -- the pirates just emulate it, or use cracks to bypass it, so it doesn't really affect them at all.
Re:talk about sour grapes ... (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't think anyone browsing the forums of a copy protection product is actually needing proof that web sites involved in piracy exist, much less via direct links.
Parent
Re:talk about sour grapes ... (Score:5, Informative)
Firstly, I'm not sure what you were making it out to be, but SecuROM is a competing copy protection. EA, LucasArts and several other major publishers use it. On to Starforce.
Starforce is an in some ways really effective copy protection. First of all making a 'cracked exe' is a lot more work than just stripping the copy protection, as the Starforce protection produces heavily modified and obfuscated binaries, this is why you practically don't see backup CD cracks or 'NoCDs' for Starforce protected discs.
Additionally, Starforce refuses to load the CD from a SCSI drive if an IDE CD/DVD drive is present in the system. That includes the popular virtual CD programs, as they emulate SCSI drives (there's the not-released-yet Daemon Tools IDE version which apparently shares release date of Duke Nukem Forever). Older Starforce versions required you to disable the IDE controller in Windows to use a virtual drive for a Starforce game. Recent versions go to the level of requiring you to physically unplug the drive. However, anything that prevents the PC from having a standard IDE drive will, currently, let virtual drives run Starforce-protected games. This includes PCI raid controllers and USB CD drives. As such it's a fairly easily beatable protection but requires different hardware.
However, the really funny thing here is that most burners can burn working copies of Starforce games given a proper source image. So it fails at the most base level of preventing copying of the CDs. However, copying fails if the Starforce protection drivers are present in the system doing the burning. Yes, the Starforce drivers monitor all the CD drive access. Luckily, there's an offical tool to remove the protection drivers.
Parent
Re:talk about sour grapes ... (Score:3, Insightful)
Oops, you're right. I must be thinking of something else. Ahh, here it is -- `securom loader' [daemon-tools.cc]. This thing hides tools like daemon tools from things like SecuROM and Starforce, allowing one to use the game even without cracking it at all.
Wow. (Score:5, Interesting)
But if I ever needed a tangible reason to not use Starforce products, this [star-force.com] would be enough.
Re:Wow. (Score:5, Interesting)
www.positech.co.uk
There is enough choice to buy the DRM-free games that you enjoy, this game isn't the only option.
That said, galciv 2 IS a superb game, and one I've been addicted to since the day it was released. All power to them.
Parent
Re:Wow. (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Wow. (Score:3, Insightful)
The companies pushing strict DRM need to remember that they are providing entertainment, not our only source of
Proof of claim? (Score:3, Informative)
Not too surprising... (Score:5, Insightful)
If only more game companies would just follow the leaders and dump this Starforce DRM crap...
Re:Not too surprising... (Score:5, Funny)
Of course, DOOM II is a trademark of id Software,
copyright 1994-95, so don't mess with it. Remember, if you
are playing a pirated copy of DOOM II you are going to HELL.
Buy it and avoid an eternity with all the other freeloaders.
If you have any problems playing DOOM II, please call our
technical support line at (212) 951-3126.
Maybe Starforce are thugs who promote software theft if you don't do business with you, but at least they're not sending you into the Inferno...
Parent
Excellent game & company, Starforce can suck m (Score:5, Interesting)
It's a great game by a great company and I pre-ordered it and have been enjoying it for a while now.
The point is though that they're not treating their customers like criminals by default. This is something that we really should all support. Mutual trust between company and buyer is something that's been almost eradicated over the past few years by rape-artists like Starforce and Sony.
The proof of what Starforce is all about is right there in front of you. "They didn't pay us loads of money to crap all over their customers, so DAMMIT WE'RE GOING TO PROMOTE PIRACY OF THEIR SOFTWARE." You know, does this remind anyone else of mafia-like tactics? That's because that's exactly what this is. It look for all intents and purposes like a protection racket.
Starforce are saying by their actions - "Give us money or we'll encourage and make it easier for people to take from you."
Support Stardock, Screw Starforce.
Games are pirated, news at 11 (Score:4, Funny)
GalCiv2 'Genuine Advantage' (Score:5, Informative)
On top of there being no DRM, the game is also $10 cheaper than most retail games, which makes up for there being no multiplayer in it (at the moment.) The guys over at IGN reckon there's multiplayer architecture hidden in the game at the moment, and think they'll incorporate the multiplayer later on as part of their 'geniune advantage' scheme. Who knows, it may boost their game sales up a notch after the initial release sales have died down. Good on 'em!
Sell me the CD key (Score:4, Insightful)
People will download the games, piracy isnt going to go away. But alot of games have awesome online play, that you can access with a stolen copy (usually).
So allow these people, who downloaded the game, to just buy a real KEY from you. Sell the retail box, a download copy, or just the CD key, users choice.
personally, It is very difficult for me to GO OUT and buy a game. My work schedule and living situation, plus where I am simply doesnt permit it more than once every three months. If I could download a torrent copy of a game, then purchase the CD key. Boy, we'd be in business.
Re:Sell me the CD key (Score:5, Informative)
IT sems to me that they're giving you exactly what you're asking for, and that's great. I did it and I have never had to touch a CD. I have a backup stored on my HD, and can re-downoad it from them whenever I want and all I have to do is supply them with the serial number to do so.
Oh, if I lose the serial number too, if I can prove ownership (via registered email address, receipt, etc) they'll give me the serial number I lost so I can get playing again.
Pretty neat, eh? (Not a fanboy, just VERY impressed with a company where supporting the customer is priority)
Parent
Re:Sell me the CD key (Score:5, Interesting)
Personally I almost bought it purely for this enlightened attitude but it's also a really good game so..
Parent
Good for them! (Score:5, Insightful)
The net dongle (via Steam and their ilk) is OK for multiplayer games, but it still pisses me off when I want to do single player. I got HL2, but don't plan to buy any more stand alone games that have to call home every time they start up.
Lastly, the StarForce stuff can badly munge up a system. I can't see any titles worth building a SCSI only box for just so my other software continues to run after they try to rewrite system drivers. I hope the support calls bury any profit those who opt for this type of 'protection'.
Two can play that game... (Score:5, Informative)
http://thepiratebay.org/search.php?q=king%20kong&
Prince of Persia: The Two Thrones: (action/adventure, Ubisoft)s &audio=&video=&apps=&games=on&porn=&other=&what=se arch&page=0&orderby=se [thepiratebay.org]
http://thepiratebay.org/search.php?q=two%20throne
Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory (stealth action, Ubisoft)r y&audio=&video=&apps=&games=on&porn=&other=&what=s earch&page=0&orderby=se [thepiratebay.org]
http://thepiratebay.org/search.php?q=chaos%20theo
Brothers in Arms: Earned in Blood (first person shooter, Gearbox)a rms+earned+in+blood>
http://thepiratebay.org/search.php?q=brothers+in+
X3 (space sim, Enlight Software)a mes=on [thepiratebay.org]
http://thepiratebay.org/search.php?q=x3+reunion&g
enjoy.
Congrats... (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
SF == limited evil (Score:5, Interesting)
Check: X3, a game I considered buying until I found out it's got SF in it. No sale.
Check2: GalCiv2, a game I might buy when it becomes more affordable (sorry, 50 for a game isn't fair. Let's talk again when it's 35). No stupid copy protection is a good argument - my main machine is a notebook...
Also, there's literally tons of tools out there to circumvent SF. Most of them appear to be a PITA to use, but they're there. The largest group of gamers who copy regularily are kids with not enough money and more than enough time, so they won't mind.
Plus, of course, the cracker groups who'll break any new SF game in a day or two.
Nah, to me SF and its likes are a big scam designed to rip off software companies who should better spend the money on making their games less buggy.
forgot the limit (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:SF == limited evil (Score:4, Informative)
Parent
Galciv and DRM, and lessons learned (Score:3, Interesting)
No, they don't, RTFA (Score:4, Informative)
Please RTFA. There are two main points to it, A: Stardock, the company behind GalCiv, uses virtually no DRM and particularly doesn't use third-party customer-unfriendly DRM such as that provided by Starforce, and that the heavy sales of the game may seem threatening to companies whose primary buisness is selling DRM software (again, such as Starforce.)
B: A Starforce employee posted on the Starforce forums a link to a site where pirate torrents of GalCiv2 could be downloaded. Ostensibly this was to provide "proof" that GalCiv/Stardock were suffering from piracy. (Presumably with the intent to encourage other companies to purchase Starforce software.) As noted in other comments however some people are viewing it as a mafia-esque tactic to harm Stardock by increasing piracy of their game. (Presumably with the intent to intimidate Stardock and other companies into purchasing Starforce software.)
Parent
Re:Well, heck! (Score:5, Informative)
Parent