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Final Fantasy vs. Oblivion

Posted by Zonk on Fri Jun 09, 2006 11:27 AM
from the ready-fight dept.
Role Playing (Games) Entertainment Games
An anonymous reader writes "bit-tech has up a short comparison between Final Fantasy VII and Oblivion. While Oblivion is touted as the latest and greatest PC-based RPG, Final Fantasy VII is held in the minds of many gamers as the best RPG of all time. From the article: 'At the time of its release, nearly ten years ago, FFVII received rave reviews from the press and the public, and it has a claim to being the best loved Final Fantasy game ... In a Top 100 Games of all time, it would be up there in the single digits. It is, by all accounts, Sergeant Pepper-Citizen Kane great. If something is great, it should be great whenever you pick it up -- buy a fresh copy of Pepper or Kane now and they'll still blow you away: they were great in '67 and '41, and they're great now. Is the same true of FFVII?'"
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  • Short answer... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by chrismcdirty (677039) on Friday June 09 2006, @11:30AM (#15503134) Homepage
    No. The graphics aren't as great as they were perceived when it first came out. I'd much rather play a great sprite-based game (FFVI) than a game with early 3D graphics.

    Then again, graphics aren't everything. But FF6 beats it in the story department, too. And the gameplay department.
    • I'd venture to say that it's in the eye of the beholder. I loved both FFVI and FFVII, and honestly I thought both stories were very intricate and well developed. FFVI was more complex, to be sure; there were over a dozen characters, each with a believable (for a fantasy game) back-story that tied in to at least one other character's back story.

      But on the other hand, FFVII had more than just evil villains conquering the world by force; it had a hero battling with himself, discovering the truth about his pa
      • I find Kefka far more evil than Sephiroth, who seemed more like a bad caricature of a villain. ANd except for the Aeris parts of the story, the FF7 story just seemed contrived. When you put everything together at the end, it still didn't really make sense.
        • I find Kefka far more evil than Sephiroth, who seemed more like a bad caricature of a villain. ANd except for the Aeris parts of the story, the FF7 story just seemed contrived. When you put everything together at the end, it still didn't really make sense.

          You might want to take a look at the Final Fantasy VII Ultimania Omega [ign.com], which was a book published in Japan that explains the story. After reading that, especially seeing exactly how Jenova, Sephiroth, Cloud, and Zack all are connected, it makes a whol
          • If I wanted to read a book to get the story, I'd read a book! Video games that have intricate stories (especially RPGs) should not need to be augmented with a book just to understand the storyline.
            I could, however, see supplementary books with the Halo series. Not everyone cares about the story, it is kind of a mindless FPS.
          • That's exactly why I disliked Sephiroth and why he seemed like a caricature. He was pretty much and over-powered superhuman. Plus (if I remember the story correctly) he had a good reason for wanting to destroy the earth. Sometimes I felt sympathetic for him.

            Kefka, OTOH, was a seriously messed up human. He was a genocidal maniac who killed for no good reason. I could look at him, and liken him to Hitler or other despotic leaders who use mass murder to rise to and keep their power. But, yeah, he did look like

      • Re:Short answer... (Score:5, Insightful)

        by chrismcdirty (677039) on Friday June 09 2006, @11:49AM (#15503315) Homepage
        I completely agree with you that it's in the eye of the beholder. And I do agree FFVII is a great game. But it seems a lot of the people who proclaim FFVII is the greatest game ever are the ones who started playing with FFVII (the Playstation generation of gamers) or haven't played it since it came out. I thought it looked great when it came out. I also thought Chrono Cross looked great. But when I went back to play it a year ago, I realized the frame rates were chopppy and the models were extremely low-res.

        • I also thought Chrono Cross looked great. But when I went back to play it a year ago, I realized the frame rates were chopppy and the models were extremely low-res.

          You lost me here. Though the framerates weren't stellar, I'm going to have to disagree strongly about the lowres models. Chrono Cross, IMO, has the best graphics of any Playstation game. The movements are so smooth and realistic, and the details are excellent.

          But more importantly: why exactly do the frame rates and models have ANY bearing

      • > it had a hero battling with himself, discovering the truth about his path and his very existence, his identity. Think "Fight Club" and "Memento."

        The main character in Memento never did discover any truth about his self. At least not for longer than ... hey that's pretty...

    • FFVI is really weird.

      The first half of the game is great. Terrific. The story moves along, has interesting characters, great scenes. The whole nine yards.

      Then the story just falls apart. When the linearity of the game is removed, the writers need to stop character interaction, because you may not actually have a character when you get a different one. As well, you don't actually have a storyline anymore. The game is reduced to a series of individual character scenes.

    • Short answer: You can't compare them, except on a superficial level. They're two different genres of game.

      Oblivion is a classic "western" RPG: "Here's a world. Go forth and do things."
      FFVII is a classic "eastern" RPG: "Here's a story. Go forth and complete it."

  • FFVII the greatest? Please. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by AuMatar (183847) on Friday June 09 2006, @11:31AM (#15503139)
    FFVII isn't even the greatest of the final fantasy games- 4,6, and 9 blow it out of the water.

    That said, I'll take even 7 over Oblivion any day- RPGs are about the story to me, and sandbox RPGs have way too weak a story.

    • Eh Nine was crap (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Nazmun (590998) on Friday June 09 2006, @11:52AM (#15503348) Homepage
      The story line in nine was quite weak and I had a hard time getting attached to any of the characters. Plus the character design was weak, the main 16 year old princess looked like she was 9.

      The game play was it's redeeming factor but I loved the flexibility of the materia system much more.

      • Re:Eh Nine was crap (Score:5, Insightful)

        by AuMatar (183847) on Friday June 09 2006, @01:51PM (#15504351)
        The materia system is one of the things that ruined FF7. It made it so your best melees were just as capable at magic as your worst. This means there was no reason to use most of your characters- just your 3 best at all times. THe inflexibility of FF9 was a strength- it made characters have strengths and weaknesses.
    • Hum yes, Its not fair for Oblivion to compare it to FF4-5-6-7-9 because they're just all better in my opinion.

      But lets not mix apples and oranges. FF & Oblivion are not the same type of RPGs. They're both beautiful games (in terms of graphical eye candy - for when their time anyway).

      Oblivion is more about freedom, exploration and interactivity while FF is more about your classical RPG where the hero saves the princess from the raging dragon.

      But i have to admit that square enyx has done a good job at dis
    • If you think Oblivion and Morrowind (and BG and BG2 and all the other great non-linear RPGs) have too little story then you are playing them too linearly. Yes, if you play the main quest of Morrowind and finish the game in 20 hours then you will encounter less story than in an equivalent 20 hours of FF play. But that isnt how the game is supposed to work. I have spent THOUSANDS of hours on Morrowind, and never even beaten the game. There are *BOOKS* of backstory in the game. Entire villages full of voc
        • I think I'm one of about four people in the world, but I actually rather liked the junctioning system. It did feel as if it allowed much more customization of your abilities than, say, the materia system.

          My only real objection was that that idea of actually casting any of your spells was ludicrous, since they were so much more effective when just junctioned to your other abilities. It would have been nice to see more balance between those two uses.

  • Errr... Not a fair fight. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by GundamFan (848341) on Friday June 09 2006, @11:35AM (#15503183)
    Nostalgia makes everything old seem good. FFVII was a great game (perhaps the greatest) in it's time but any flaws it did have fade from our collective minds over time. I say the video game press should let people keep there fuzzy memories and stop this endless stream of lists of top games and apple orange caparisons between the modern popular games and the classics. If this is the only way to fill the pages of a gaming mag (or blog or site) that should tell us something.
    • Screw you hippies! FinalFantasy on NES FOREVER! :) I still play it on my EMU, among other games. Most of which are way more entertaining that todays PS2 releases (for me atleast). Plus they don't cost me $20-50/game.
      • Don't get me wrong I am not passing judgement here... it is all about your taste really, I tend to prefer games like Oblivion to games like FFVII but it is not comparing apples to apples.

        Plus why exactly do we care about a reporters opinion or the outcome of a poll? It won't lessen you love of Final Fantasy style RPGs or my love of Elder Scroll style RPGs.

  • KOTOR (Score:5, Interesting)

    by RonnyJ (651856) on Friday June 09 2006, @11:35AM (#15503187)
    Personally, I think SW:KOTOR is the best PC (and Xbox) RPG in the last few years. Oblivion had such an open world, but just about everything was linear in it - dialog choice was pretty much fixed, and about the only player choice was whether to sneak or not for each quest. With KOTOR, there was multiple choices for practically every quest, with the 'light-side/dark-side' system. Sure, it wasn't perfect, but it certainly made it more entertaining and gave the game more replay value.

  • Heh (Score:3, Interesting)

    by aftk2 (556992) on Friday June 09 2006, @11:37AM (#15503201) Homepage Journal
    If you took someone new to gaming, and said, "tell me what an RPG is," and gave them Oblivion and and FF7 as examples, I doubt they would really be able to complete the task. Seriously - Japanese RPGs and CPRGs (I guess, for lack of a better term) are so different there really isn't any utility in classifying them in the same way. Don't get me wrong, I like them both (haven't played Oblivion yet - really liked Morrowind, in spite of its weak main story - and I loved FF6) but such a comparison just seems to me like a way to either drum up page hits or start a fanboy war.
    • Oblivion could be called a Role Playing Game. At least, it allows for and arguably encourages that kind of gameplay.

      Final Fantasy games are adventure games with a leveling system, just like Deus Ex is an FPS with a leveling system.

      You don't "role play" in either of those games, any more than you do in a conventional adventure game or FPS.

      It doesn't mean that any of the games is better than the others necessarily, I just think it's silly to automatically label anything with a leveling system and involving s

  • What is the point? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Suddenly_Dead (656421) on Friday June 09 2006, @11:39AM (#15503217)
    They're pretty dissimiliar games. Final Fantasy 7 is pretty linear, has turn-based combat and a more traditional leveling system. Oblivion is mostly non-linear, has real-time psuedo-FPS style combat, and has a less traditional skill based leveling system. Comparing the two is almost like comparing Command and Conquer to Civilization because "they're both strategy games".

    No, I havn't RTFA, and don't intend to.
  • The article is not a real comparison between two completly different games but about why the author prefer a game more than the other...
    IMHO, the whole article is biased, just take a look at the screenshots, do you see any of Oblivion ?

    For me, a really interesting article would have been build around the differences between eastern RPGs and western RPGs. Trying to analyse the reason why each genre is fun in its own way, trying to improve them in mixing concepts but still respecting the specificities...

  • What? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by th1ckasabr1ck (752151) on Friday June 09 2006, @11:41AM (#15503239)
    What kind of article is that? All it does is talk some general stuff about nostalgia and then compare graphics and how FF7 is linear and Oblivion isn't.

    I enjoyed both games, but non-linear games don't really do it for me. First of all, I don't have time to put a million hours into a single game when there are so many out there to play. That's why I decided to give up MMOGs completely - or if I try one I only play the trial month and then quit (as I did with World of Warcraft and Everquest 2).

    Also I just personally prefer linear games over non-linear ones - especially when it's an RPG and the story is the reason that I'm playing. Everything can be so much tighter and efficient in a game that has you follow the story closely.

    For the record, I liked FF7 more than FF6 but not as much as FF9.

    • I feel the same way about linear vs non-linear but Oblivion isn't that free form. Sure you can put off the main quest as long as you want, but at the same time the directions to finish quests makes it extremely easy to stay on track and not have a lot of just wandering around looking for that one thing to do.
  • But I doubt the majority of longtime gamers would defend FFVII. Personally, I do think it's the best RPG I've ever played. I personally liked the story, however immature it might be. The graphics were good enough to let you know what was going on, so I'd say they're adequate but not inspiring, even then. The game had some minor flaws, but in general was quite slick, and it just had a certain level of depth that you don't tend to see. But then, I haven't played oblivion yet - my budget doesn't include new ga

  • Bah... Fallout 2 is the best RPG of all time. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by vertinox (846076) on Friday June 09 2006, @11:56AM (#15503380)
    Oblivion nor FFVII can hold a candle to FO2.

    Although, I get teary eyed everytime I want FF:Advent Children mostly over Aeris's death. I think that is the only game that has ever made me cried.

    For some reason FFVII made me very emotional throughout the game, but I don't know if it was because I was young or if it was the first game to do that.

  • Citizen Kane comparison... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by thebdj (768618) on Friday June 09 2006, @12:01PM (#15503419) Journal
    it should be noted that the same people who say Citizen Kane is the best movie ever are the same people who say it is the most overrated movie ever. And before you ask here is one source [bbc.co.uk].

    So, it wouldn't be outside the realm of possibility for FF7 to be the same way, afterall when something is hyped up so much, it is bound to be viewed down a bit too...

  • Best RPG? Nah, A widely accepted cult classic. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Vistaer (978511) on Friday June 09 2006, @12:25PM (#15503635)
    Final Fantasy wasn't the greatest RPG per se. Most RPG fans will say there are other games which stand out far more such as Final Fantasy VI, Chrono Trigger, Ultima VII, or Fallout. It was simply an RPG that for some strange reason was loved by so many, even those who hate RPGs in general. I would say that its the same thing as what happened with World of Warcraft. Most expected WoW to be a success, but it's instead been a monumental achievement the likes of which investors dream of when they invest in a company.

    I wouldn't call FF7 the Citizen Kane of RPGs or games, but rather I'd call it the Star Wars of the gaming industry. Noone I think really expected it to explode into the success that it was and reach such a larger audiance (I dont think anyone who had a PS1 didnt have FF7). On top of that, like star wars it seems each recent sequel can't find the same place in people's hearts that FF7 found. It was strange indeed, but I think its success can largely be attributed to many little things. Things ranging from marketing and publicity down to the twists in the story and Characters in game (Sephiroth is still by far one of the greatest villains ever). I can still remember working on leveling my characters up all day just so I could beat the Ultima creature.

    As far as keeping it fresh and would FF7 still stack up today? No... I don't think so. Unfortunatly games have made moves in recent years that are so major it can't be helped but not feel impressed by games like FF7. Sure FF7 will always carry the nostalgia love with it, and while its story and characters are still top notch, you cant help notice some things that have been improved on since (graphics aside) and perhaps wish that PS3 tech demo at E3 was actually being made into a FF7 remake =)
  • I think, to grossly generalize, linear games will be looked upon more favourably in the future than open-ended games. Linear games have a narrow, well defined goal. Open-ended games strive to do things a little better than the last open-ended game. For instance, I can't even play Vice City anymore now that I've played San Andreas.

    Oblivion is definitely an evolution in some aspects over Morrowind in some aspects, but some features are a step down (the made-for-TV interface is worthless on a PC monitor
    • Oblivion bored me to tears before long (granted, pretty long - 50 hours).

      Haha, same thing's happening here. I've put in ~50 hours doing most of the town-related sidequests, all of the Dark Brotherhood quests (best so far, definately), and I'm working my way through what appears to be the only other set of interesting guild quests (Mage's guild). I've also progressed maybe 25%-30% of the way through the main storyline (though with a character that I've stopped using because he sucked).

      I'm getting REALLY bo
      • The stupid Oblivion gates are one of the main reasons why I hate this game! You have to close how many of them? Like 15? And they're all pretty much identical! I can only kill those whirly stone guys and spider chicks and sword douches so many times (3 - that's how many gates I put up with) until I get bored.

        And I found the main story really weak and uninteresting. Saving whatshisname from the burning city was the dumbest crap I'd ever seen in a game. Our 15 escorts in plate mail all got killed, bu
        • But this big budget game couldn't afford more than 3 lines from him, so my only motivation to play is to escort these morons VERY SLOWLY to some mountains.

          You know that you can fast-travel with companions, right? Do lots of minor side quests and exploring so you find (as in actually go to, not just get the map markers) almost every major place on the map (or at least enough places so that you can get NEAR anything that you can't fast-travel to directly) and THEN do the guild quests and main quest.

          It's what

  • Console RPG (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Dolly_Llama (267016) * on Friday June 09 2006, @01:06PM (#15503999) Homepage
    While Oblivion is touted as the latest and greatest PC-based RPG, Final Fantasy VII is held in the minds of many gamers as the best RPG of all time.


    Console RPG, yes. There's no clear winner in PC RPGs with contenders like Planescape:Torment, Fallout, and Ultima IV.

  • Now this is spin at its best/worsed (Score:5, Insightful)

    by SmallFurryCreature (593017) on Friday June 09 2006, @01:09PM (#15504038) Journal
    The problem is that the reviewer ain't comparing FF7 with Oblivion at all. He just critizes Oblivion to make FF7 look good.

    If we assume for a moment this guy ain't a shill then all he is showing that he prefers adventures over RPG's.

    The simple fact is that the western RPG ala Baldur's Gate is a totally different genre then the japanese "RPG" ala the Final Fantasy series. The biggest single difference is that you do NOT have a choice in the japanese "RPG". Why do I use quotes? Because I am a westerner and as such think that RPG's originate with the D&D Pen & Paper style games. These games were not just about fighting and levelling up or being told a story. They were about making choices. The dungeon master would tell you the situation and then the game starts with, what do you do.

    The western computer RPG usually tries to give you choice, choice as to what you play, choice as to how you play and choice as to well what choices you make. There are costs involved. The non-choice character Planescape Torment gives you a far stronger story then say Icewind Dale where you create your own party. Yet PT is as free as a bird compared to the on-rails gameplay of Final Fantasy.

    If anything the Japanese "RPG" in western eyes is closer to an adventure with stat based fighting. Adventures are great games but usually not known for their free form story telling. Linear is the word most often used. I amazed to see games like Fire Emblem labelled as an RPG. Exactly where is the RP element?

    You therefore in my eyes can't compare the Final Fantasy with Oblivion (although Oblivion does suffer from a lot of linear quests) because fundementally they belong in different genre's.

    To me, a western CRPG lover Final Fantasy doesn't count as a great RPG, a mediocre RPG or even a bad RPG. I don't count it as an RPG. Doesn't mean it is a bad game. It just ain't a RPG.

    I am not totally alone although I realize it is hard to come up with enough labels to eh label all the various game genre's. Lets just settle for Japanese RPG and Western RPG. Most people here would know what is meant by that including that comparing games between the two is futile.

    This reviewer probably hasn't learned that distinction and was either burned by Oblivion thinking that ALL RPG's are like Japanese RPG's. Either that or he is an idiot.

    As for this being posted by Zonk, well big supirse there.

    • Just because a game doesn't let you make many significant choices doesn't mean it's not a role-playing game. It's entirely possible to play a role without making choices -- look at centuries of theatre, for example. Plays have a set script, and actors are expected to go through the motions and read their lines. The play will turn out basically the same every time, but nobody would argue that the actors aren't playing roles. One could argue that they do make choices -- they can move differently, put diff
      • 1) By your definition, DOOM is a role-playing game.

        2) You miss the point; in Oblivion, you have the choice not to play the "main quest" *at all*. When you "win" the "main quest", the game doesn't end... the only reason it's really even the "main quest" in the first place is that it's a long quest chain that happens to start with the very first quest you receive. If you want, you can play Oblivion as if the assassin's guild quests were the "main quest", beat that chain, and declare it won. That's true fre
    • I suppose it depends on what one defines as "role playing". In the D&D sense, it means making your own "role" which isn't so much role playing it can be argued as "role making" while in a more structured environment, your role is given and you must "play your role" to complete the game.

      The best analogy I can give is Classical vs Jazz. While there's room for some variation in Mozart (dynamics, articulation, tempo, and cadenzas) it's not like a Duke Ellington chart where what's written is almost a sugge
  • it's amazing, but copies of FFVII go for 80-100 USD these days...

  • Tell me your age... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by fujiman (912957) on Friday June 09 2006, @03:59PM (#15505509)
    ... and I'll guess at your favorite game.

    Every gamer has a momemt, sort of like losing your gamer cherry. You never forget the first time a game moves you to tears, makes you laugh out loud, or scares you so much you have to turn on the lights and turn off the computer.

    I didn't get FFVII, but I was 30 at the time. I had already played Ultima Underworld, Lots of Wizardry, and more traditional CRPGs. I'm sure if I was 13 and I had a Playstation, things would be very different.

    I don't begrudge anyone their favorite game. I think it's great that people are passionate about it, and want to share the experience with others.

    For the record, my "first game" was Ultima Underworld II. There's a portion of the game where you need to raid the tomb of a king, and his ghostly court tried very hard to stop you. When you reach the king, you realize they weren't trying to stop you from stealing his treasure, but were trying to keep you from letting him realize he was dead. At that moment, I had a feeling that I had done something very wrong... much worse than just stealing a trinket.

    • 4 Copies? Get the bad copies resurfaced at a used music store, and sell 'em on ebay or something. They just stopped taking trades on them at GStop / EB, so know in advance that wont work. But seriously, you're sitting on some possible value there.
    • Exactly why I was never able to finish it. I can't decide, which is the worst FF I've ever played, 7 with Cloud, or 10 with Football. I think FF1(US) was the best. Plain, simple, and didn't force you into BS. Oblivion is good, very sandbox though, but enjoyable. You can stop the main storyline and go have fun. In FF7 you have to continue, or go fight, there's little else to do.

      And what is the japanese obsession with Fishing and pointless mini games? Is it only brilliant US developers who thought up the idea
    • It's interesting how many people say this, then loads of people say "No, I preferred this one". I've only completed 7 & 8 myself, and I'm not sure which one I like more - though they both get a bit silly towards the end.

      FFVII is actually my favorite RPG (calling it "the best" I think is a little much), so it's true for some people. Personally, I thought FFVIII was awful. The game itself was alright, but I hated Squall. I kept playing the game and going, "Why am I still playing, Squall is the one I
    • Seriously, to hell with that system. It breaks down all characters to what Materia they have equipped; there is no character variety. All of them have similar statistics, weaponry and armors (I'm aware of the slight differences, but they don't provide any actual variety). The only thing setting them apart is their Limit Breaks..and even then..

      What ever happened to good old classes? Or what about (in my mind) the greatest ability system of all, the Job systems present in FFV and FFT?

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