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Jeff Minter on Sony's Arrogance

Posted by Zonk on Fri Jul 07, 2006 05:13 PM
from the anger-from-the-edge dept.
Sony The Media Entertainment Games
Regular Edge columnist Jeff Minter has lashed out at Sony over what he perceives as incredible arrogance on the console-maker's part. From the BBC article: "Mr Minter, writing in his regular column for Edge, said: 'They seem absolutely certain that even when they say it's going to be considerably more expensive than existing consoles... nevertheless us eager customers will rush out in droves to buy it because it's, hey, a new PlayStation.'"
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[+] Sony's Harrison on Sony Arrogance 136 comments
Joystiq had the chance to exchange a few words with Sony's Phil Harrison at the UK Develop Conference. They asked him some hard questions about the crazy comments that have been coming out of the company since E3. From the article: "There's always going to be a risk when you are market leader for ten years that we start to lose perspective; and we have to make sure that we don't lose perspective. But I don't think we're arrogant, I think we have to recognize that we're in a highly competitive industry and that anything that we say will be eternally editorialized by professionals and consumers alike. So we're always in the spotlight." After the tape was off he snarked that he hadn't been asked very nice questions. Poor guy, having to answer questions that aren't 'How awesome is the PS3 going to be?'
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  • Paying for Potential (Score:5, Interesting)

    by SanityInAnarchy (655584) <ninja@slaphack.com> on Friday July 07 2006, @05:24PM (#15679897) Journal
    Last month Mr Stringer said: "The price of the PS3 is high but you're paying for potential."

    Sorry, I'd rather pay for reality, in the form of real hardware, real games, and real fun.

    • Touché. Potential doesn't matter. The PSP had a lot of potential, but it wasn't taken advantage of, IMHO. I wonder if the PS3 will go that route too.
    • Well the ps3 hardware is worth 600, probably much more, but most gamers are unwilling to pay 600 for a gaming console.
      Real games and Real fun are up to developers. Sure Microsoft support for devs is better, so this could mean better games, but it isn't a contingency. Let's see how supportive Sony will be to the homebrew comunity and developers in general to decide if the ps3 is worth the extra development costs and if games are good enough for consumers.
    • odd to hear reality and games mentioned in the same sentence ;)
      just made me chuckle a bit the juxtaposition.
    • Yeah. I know what you mean. I paid for "potential" with the Atari Jaguar. And what did that get me?
      • Sony's biggest risk is the massive amount of people who will "wait and see," which is precisely what I will do. For added perspective, I'm still in the "wait and see" stage in regard to the Xbox (Not 360). I'm pretty sure I'll pick one up soon though. Haha.
  • PS and PS2 absolutely dominated their generation (yes I'm aware Nintendo may have made more money). PS3 strikes me as too expensive but then I'm not the average gamer so it's not up to me to decide if Sony's strategy is sound. If their strategy is right, then who are we to tell them not to do it? And if it's wrong, it's not my problem either.
    • Sony barely got more than half when fighting the N64. I wouldn't call it "Absolutely Dominated." They won, but not by that much.

      • Re:Sony has the right to be arrogant (Score:4, Informative)

        by jusdisgi (617863) on Saturday July 08 2006, @12:20PM (#15683686)

        Sony barely got more than half when fighting the N64. I wouldn't call it "Absolutely Dominated." They won, but not by that much.

        Hey, I've got an idea: why don't you just make shit up? Or, here's a better idea: you could actually look it up.

        Here's what Wikipedia [wikipedia.org] has to say on the subject:

        Sega Saturn: 9.26 Million (Japan: 5.74, Other: 3.52)
        Nintendo 64: 32.93 Million (Japan: 5.54, The Americas: 20.63, Other Regions: 6.75)
        PlayStation: 102.49 Million as of March 31, 2005 (Japan: 21.59, USA: 40.78, Europe: 40.12) including 28.15 Million "PS one" units (Japan: 4.19, USA: 12.7, Europe: 11.26)

        In other words, the Playstation more than tripled the N64's sales. When you sell three times as many units as your closest competitor, I don't think it's unreasonable to call it "Absolutely Dominating."

    • Re:Sony has the right to be arrogant (Score:4, Insightful)

      by thelost (808451) on Friday July 07 2006, @06:36PM (#15680320) Journal
      whether or not an individual or company (or Government!) has or does not have the right to be arrogant, this is usually the first step to a fall. I think people are beginning to become infuriated with Sony's attitude, I sure as hell would never consider getting a PS3, but that is beside the point.

      Good salesmanship and business starts with respecting your customers, Sony's attitude suggests they see their customers as sheep incapable of saying No! even though the product placed before them is overpriced, overhyped and underwhelming.

      Nintendo will be one of the winners of this next round of console wars, simply on the basis that they tend towards modesty and don't come off like such fucking jerks.
        • I agree with you on this. People will buy PS3s because they bought the PS2. However the kind of stuff that we get concerned about in our tech orientated gossip and daily news sometimes filters through into the main media, stuff like the PS3 pricetag. I've heard a few of my non-techy friends mention the pricetag of the PS3, so it obviously got through to them. Also, I've found that in the last couple of years the average joe has become much more capable of picking up alternative news sources using the intern
  • I know personally I will never buy another Sony product, it seems as if this company has completely lost touch with reality. Its like they have a corporate mentality that they are a government and we live by thier rules vs. our dollars determine thier fate. At least the White House/neo con republican movement trys to put a positive spin on bad policy for the people, Sony is just clueless. Next they are just going to put out one sentence press releases:

    PS3, suck it down bitches!!
    Viao, suck it down bitches!!!

    • Re:I wont buy Sony (Score:5, Interesting)

      by faust2097 (137829) on Friday July 07 2006, @05:59PM (#15680107) Homepage
      The fact that this was tagged "insightful" is pretty pathetic. Of course so is applying an "attitude" to a multibillion dollar multinational corporation.

      Sony is big because they have a reputation for making quality products. Whether or not they deserve that is up for debate but when they do get something right they tend to nail it. Sony went from a distant 10th in LCD marketshare to #1 in 2 years with the Bravia line. The Playstation and the PS2 have totally dominated the console space for the last decade. If I ran a company that had sold 200 million systems and 2 billion games in the last decade I'd be pretty proud of myself too.

      The problem right now is that since the games aren't ready to look at the PS3 mindspace is basically a giant echo chamber so the loudest shouter gets the most attention completely independat of the quality of their message.
      • Sony is big because they have a reputation for making quality products

        Problem: Sony is not doing now what it was doing before it became big. Isn't the definition of insanity doing two completely different things and expecting the same result?

  • They seem absolutely certain that even when they say it's going to be considerably more expensive than existing consoles... nevertheless us eager customers will rush out in droves to buy it because it's, hey, a new PlayStation.

    That is exactly what they're saying. The thing is, they may be right. I really don't see the 360 picking up a lot of ground in Japan, especially if Final Fantasy remains PS exclusive. It remains to be seen how much marketshare Nintendo can pick up in any region, since it's reall

  • Conflict of Interest (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Aim Here (765712) on Friday July 07 2006, @06:03PM (#15680136)
    Mighty respect to the Yak, n'all, and Sony are certainly a bunch of pisstakers, but Jeff did write the light synth that was bundled with the Xbox360 so he might not be a completely fair and unbiased observer here.

    You might want to bear that small fact in mind...

  • That's What I See (Score:5, Interesting)

    by MBCook (132727) <foobarsoft@foobarsoft.com> on Friday July 07 2006, @06:08PM (#15680181) Homepage

    I see this generation as pure arrogance. I thought the $400 price of a 360 stupid. But asking either $500 or $600 for a console is just insane. They aren't even offering anything great. The videos I've seen of the PS3 games look like 360 games. The interface is basically the same as the analog controller introduced during the PS1 life-cycle. They have basically NOTHING to justify the cost in my eyes. Those have no large line-up of killer games. Heck, I've yet to see a game that really makes me take notice. Some (Assassin's Creed) seem interesting, but many of those (like it seems Assassin's Creed) won't be exclusive.

    I bought a PS2 on launch due to "good will" with Sony. I knew they would come through. They did... but it took a long time. My PS2 has probably seen more use as a DVD player than a PS2 (thanks, mostly, to Netflix and TV show DVDs).

    I bought a PSP on launch due to "good will" but I now regret that. There have been basically 3 games for it that I found that I like. Burnout (beat it, tired of it), Hot Shots (beat it, tired of it), and Lumines (I've spent so many hours on it, I'm tired of it). At this point in the console's life, I expected to have liked more than 3 games. And you know what's coming up that I'm looking forward to? Lumines 2, and that's just "more of the same" so I probably won't even get it. What a waste of my money. The DS was slow to start but after about 6 months it took off flying with great games.

    They lost all their gaming good will. They would have a half-decent chance at $300. At $400 getting me to buy one would be a real stretch. At $500 it is a wait and see approach. At their $600 price, it's a wait and see what hits the used market 2 years later to see if it would be near my price point.

    So far, only Nintendo has announced games that I consider "must haves". It's it so odd that that keeps happening every generation? The PS2 had some, the XBox had one or two (Jet Grind Radio Future and Shenmue II). The 360 and PS3 are currently lacking such titles. I have a list of about 6 for the Wii.

    • Re:That's What I See (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Akaihiryuu (786040) on Friday July 07 2006, @08:16PM (#15680773)
      I was in EB Games at the mall today, and they had a PS3 E3 propoganda video (it was obviously produced by Sony) on...it was all I could do to keep from falling over laughing. Here is a direct quote: "They took the rumble feature out of the controller, that makes it lighter and more ergonomic. And it now has 6 degrees of freedom with NO EXTERNAL SENSORS REQUIRED! This is the most innovative controller I've ever seen! The 60-gig model is only $599, and the 20-gig model is only $499!!!" (it was obviously either a Sony PR drone or a media drone that Sony paid). Um...taking the rumble out makes it lighter and more ergonomic, so that's a good thing? They didn't even mention Nintendo, who blew everyone away at E3 and stole the show...Sony was virtually ignored, so it's likely that "E3 video" was really just Sony propoganda in disguise. That was the most arrogant piece of BS I've ever seen...even Microsoft hasn't put out propoganda that bad, and that's saying something.

  • The combination of late to market, higher price, and harder to develop for is a killer combo.

  • So much negative news... I smell astroturf (Score:3, Insightful)

    by nathanh (1214) on Friday July 07 2006, @06:12PM (#15680198) Homepage
    "Mr Minter, writing in his regular column for Edge, said: 'They seem absolutely certain that even when they say it's going to be considerably more expensive than existing consoles... nevertheless us eager customers will rush out in droves to buy it because it's, hey, a new PlayStation.'"

    Well, no, I'll be buying it to play the games.

    What amazes me is that an expensive console is nothing new. The Playstation was almost twice the cost of the next dearest console. The Playstation 2 was also the most expensive console from that generation. I bought both of them. Approximatedly 100 million people bought the damn things. Obviously cost isn't that important an issue.

    So what is the important issue? The games, of course. There are games on the PS3 that won't exist on other consoles. I'll be buying the console to play the games. I don't buy it because it's "new". In fact, I'm most likely to wait for the first price drop because there will be too few compelling launch titles.

    And what's this about price?

    when they say it's going to be considerably more expensive than existing consoles

    I don't care! That's not an issue. It might have been an issue back when I was a teenager and had to beg my parents for money, but I have a job now and I can afford to buy things. The cost of a PS3 pales in comparison to the cost of running my car. My "video game habit" is still an order of magnitude cheaper than the booze and cigarette habit that infects 99% of the population.

    These "analysts" need to realise that the video game demographic has grown up. The age group is no longer 5-15 years old, begging our parents to buy a Sega Master System for Christmas. The dominant demographic is 25-35 years old with gobs of cash. The price sticker on a PS3 doesn't bother us in the slightest.

    • the PS1 cost 100$ less than the saturn, the n64 wasn't out at the time. ps2 cost the same as the xbox.

    • Re:So much negative news... I smell astroturf (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Frac (27516) * on Friday July 07 2006, @07:42PM (#15680628)
      These "analysts" need to realise that the video game demographic has grown up. The age group is no longer 5-15 years old, begging our parents to buy a Sega Master System for Christmas. The dominant demographic is 25-35 years old with gobs of cash. The price sticker on a PS3 doesn't bother us in the slightest.
      I envy the fact you live out of your parent's basement and spend all your dispensable income on video games, but for those of us who pay rent or mortgage or save money to invest in, we don't care for a $600 console when the $200 one has more fun games to play.

    • Re:So much negative news... I smell astroturf (Score:5, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 07 2006, @07:43PM (#15680640)

      My "video game habit" is still an order of magnitude cheaper than the booze and cigarette habit that infects 99% of the population.

      Gosh, I like all three of those things- at once. I suppose I'm fucked.

    • There are games on the PS3 that won't exist on other consoles.

      Given. There will undoubtedly also be games like this for the 360 and Wii (especially the Wii.) The question is, will those games be fun enough to justify the costs, especially when compared to the 360's excellent online infrastructure and Wii's new controller, which are going to be delivering cutting edge experiences?

      It seems to me like Sony is relying too heavily on franchises which had very bad installments on their previous generation
  • > Mr Minter, writing in his regular column for Edge,

    That's it for Edge, then!
  • Part of me thinks "maybe they know how deep a hole they've dug themselves, but at this point the only thing to do is keep digging and hope you come out the other side"

  • How many Units do you think an average store will stock?
    Every Wal*Mart, every Target, every Sears, every Fred Meyer, every EB-Games...

    If I were in charge of electronics inventory for a major chain, I'd have to think long and hard... If they don't sell, will Sony reimburse? Should each store stock 10 Wii's 10 360's and 10 PS3's?, or 30 Wii's, 10 360's and 5 PS 3's?

    Which would make the store more profit? 30 Wii's plus 1-3 games each, or 10 PS3's with 0-2 game each? (If it comes with Linux, many will not be used for retail games)

    How many pre-orders will end up not being redeemed, because the customer can't afford it?

    Spending $600 for a game console is one thing, but if you're the guy who bought $60,000,000 worth for your company, and only 50% of them sell, who's gonna get blamed for the lost $30,000,000?

    But then, if you stock too few, and the competition gets all the sales profit...

  • Smug? (Score:3, Funny)

    by Megane (129182) on Friday July 07 2006, @09:43PM (#15681083)

    UK video gaming stalwart Jeff Minter has criticised Sony for being "smug" about its PlayStation 3 console. Smug? Right now, Sony have more smug than a batallion of Priuses, driven by OS X users, all playing iPods and using Netwons!

    Go, Yak, go!

    • I have not heard these millions. Where do they live? Certainly not in the United States, Europe or Japan. When the Japanese' eyes go big over the price of some electronic doodad, it's probably too expensive.

      That's not even starting with the other hundreds of Sony gaffes, a list of which would consume pages.

      • Re:... and? (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Durinthal (791855) on Friday July 07 2006, @05:43PM (#15680017)
        The vast majority of people that will buy the PS3 haven't been online to discuss it, and never will. They haven't heard about all of the stupid things Sony's executives have said, or heard any of the discussions about why the controller has certain features like tilt sensing. These people will know nothing about the console except what they'll see on the side of the box after they buy it.
        • Great, so the first time they see the sticker price will be in the store sitting beside the 360 for half the price and the Wii for a third. I am sure that will improve Sony's sales.
          • Most of the people who buy the PS3 won't pay $600 for it. The Xbox 360 cost $600 when it launched last year since many people who really wanted it at launch were prepared to spend $200 over MSRP for it. Prices fall over time for game consoles.
    • I've been a PC gamer for like... ever. But just knowing that I don't have to upgrade a component in a $600 gaming system to play the latest game every 6-12 months... hell there are video cards that run that much! In perspective, the PS3 IS a PC (cell processor yada yada), Blue-Ray whoopdie do, but consider the sheer amount of data they can throw on one of those discs? I am seriously considering picking one up. Now, give me a version of Linux that will run on it (with minimal hacking) and I'm sold!

      • Re:... and? (Score:4, Interesting)

        by Compholio (770966) on Friday July 07 2006, @05:31PM (#15679948)
        Now, give me a version of Linux that will run on it (with minimal hacking) and I'm sold!

        Wow, you haven't been paying attention - the more expensive version is supposed to have Linux pre-loaded on it from the factory.
        • both versions actually come with Linux pre-installed (it's to get around paying taxes), the $600 model comes with HDMI ports The Card reader and a 60gb hdd as default, the $500 model only has a 20gb model and you have to buy a card reader addon and there is no support for HDMI.

      • Re:... and? (Score:4, Interesting)

        by Aladrin (926209) on Friday July 07 2006, @05:36PM (#15679984)

        Maybe you missed the bulletin. The PS3 will be upgradeable. In the land of gaming, 'can be upgraded' is the same as 'must be upgraded.'

        From http://news.spong.com/article/10210?cb=894 [spong.com]

        we think it would be okay to [expand] the configuration once a year.
    • That's assuming that a PS3 can do everything a gaming computer can in terms of gaming. It can't, so it fails as a computer.

      And as a console, it doesn't have anything compelling over the 360 or the Wii, or even the PS2, to justify that price.

      Even with all that, I might be rushing to buy one if I had any faith left in Rootkit Sony at all. I'm sorry, did I say "Rootkit Sony"? I meant "Anti-homebrew Sony". Or maybe "crippled PS2 Linux for $200 Sony".

    • Re:... and? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Kesch (943326) on Friday July 07 2006, @05:35PM (#15679979)
      "Cheaper than a computer" has always been a feature of consoles, trying to justify the PS3 cost by comparing it to the computers is a bit of a strawman. Hell, if I buy a Wii, I can have $1250 left over for my "other things" machine.

      As for these mythical hordes of people slobbering to buy the PS3, I have yet to see them. Please direct me to them. Honestly, everyone I talk to sees the PS3 to be like pulling teeth, they want to avoid it for as long as possible. Most of us know that in the future we might break down and buy a PS3 once the number of good exclusive third party titles for it is too good to pass up and it has undergone a theoretical drop in price. Meanwhile, I want the Wii like no one's business and it will probably be the first console ever that I will stand in line to have at launch.
      • I've already got the money set aside for it, and I'm placing an order for one the first day that I can. I'm not a "horde" of people, but I'm sure that I'm representative of some group of people that doesn't care what it costs, and just wants the best game console out there.
      • "Cheaper than a computer" has always been a feature of consoles, trying to justify the PS3 cost by comparing it to the computers is a bit of a strawman.

        A bit!?! I just saw a Dell television commercial featuring a complete desktop computer (model B110 if I recall) for $299. What are folks (at least 'regular' people) going to think when mainstream computer setups are half the price of this new game console?

    • Re:Wait, There's more... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by goMac2500 (741295) on Friday July 07 2006, @06:47PM (#15680368)
      Either you're a Sony marketing bot, or this entire post is satire. Multiplayer gaming with a birds eye view from the PSP? Right. Like that's never been done before (Nintendo). Using your PSP as a remote control? How? Why? Who cares? What's wrong with a normal remote control? My media collection streamed to my PSP? Why would I want to stream it to a tiny stream when I'm going to be streaming it in my house with a big TV? PS3 DVR? How is that supposed to work? I haven't seen Cable card or a coax connector on the PS3. Normally a DVR does kinda need one of those. PS3 as a portable WiFi hotspot? Gee that's great, I'll haul around a $600 router with me. VOIP? Because the N-Gage didn't really well. Video calls? Yeah, that's a huge market there. A GPS? Right, because I'm going to take my PSP hiking with me with it's 10 hour battery life. Do I need to buy a solar panel too? 7000 PS1 games? First, I'll eat my sock if that many really are available. Secondly... why do I care? I can play PS1 games on a freakin 5 year old Macintosh. Use the PS3 to store my PSP downloads? So the PS3 has a hard drive. OOooooo. Impressive. PDA apps on the PSP? With what input? So far the only console succeeding at all as a PDA is the DS. Same for education.

      Sony has very little potential. They're wrapping up all these buzzwords trying to impress us, when in actuality, half the stuff they promise doesn't exist yet, and the other half they'll promise and never deliver. The entire Sony gaming division must be stocked with the same people in charge of Vista. Cramming yesterday's technology into something high priced, and filling it with buzzwords most consumers don't care about. I don't care whether or not I'm paying $600 for 600 buzzwords. It's not new, it's not original, and for the most part, those features don't actually exist. Seriously... a DVR? You're talking about things that require connectors that aren't even on the PS3.
    • Slashdot's games section has gotten to the point that makes me thankful I can buy my games online.* I'd hate to be at a store populated by people hovering near the PS3 case shouting "WRONG!" [google.com] at everyone who even considers buying a console of which they disapprove.

      * Disclaimer: I work at a company that sells games online, this does not represent my company's opinion, etc

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