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Can Games Make You Cry?
Posted by
Zonk
on Thu Jul 27, 2006 12:30 PM
from the recently-only-when-patching-doesn't-work dept.
from the recently-only-when-patching-doesn't-work dept.
Ground Glass writes "'Can games make you cry?' is a ridiculously simple question to ask about a hideously complex issue. Worse, it's possible that the very question itself muddies the answer. Next Generation's approach is a little more thoughtful; by figuring out what questions each medium tries to answer free of the art issue, it cuts to the heart of what games can do. With the tools made clear, it then theorizes what said tools can do emotionally." From the article: "In film, you can show a character staring at a point before him and then change perspective to show what he was staring at; it is the proximity and timing of the imagery that lends significance to the second shot. In painting, you can play with the two-dimensional space and qualities of the material at hand to create similarly suggestive juxtapositions of imagery, color, symbolism, perspective, lending greater insight into the workings of the medium, the subject at hand, the painter herself, and - ultimately - the viewer and his own perspective on the world around him."
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Starfox 64 (Score:4, Funny)
Games make kids cry all the time. (Score:4, Funny)
Hell, it happens with adults too. If you've played Battletoads or Ghost and Goblins you know what I mean.
Re:Games make kids cry all the time. (Score:4, Funny)
No crying though. Too angry.
Parent
Re:Games make kids cry all the time. (Score:3, Interesting)
You'll love Max Payne 2. I liked the first one, but the second was about 100x better.
It's kind of short, which got it a bunch of criticism, but IMHO it doesn't matter. In fact, it helps; I thought that MP1 got REALLY boring around the time of the parking garage level. 2 never gets boring. The story is at least as good as the first one, and the characters are even better.
And its best attribute? The level design. Top-f'ing notch. Among the best that I've ever se
One Word... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:One Word... (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:One Word... (Score:5, Interesting)
Parent
Re:One Word... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:One Word... (Score:4, Informative)
And the trailer hints to some loss in HL2: Ep. 2 that could be pretty sad.
Parent
Re:One Word... (Score:2)
Re:One Word... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:One Word... (Score:5, Interesting)
The question posed here is can a *game* make you cry. Not a video stuck into the middle of a game, but from the actual gameplay. How many times have you cried while actually playing a game as opposed to sitting there with the controller in your lap watching some CGI whose trigger and resolution you had absolutely no control over? Not many, I'd wager.
Parent
Re:One Word... (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Re:One Word... (Score:4, Insightful)
Initially, I was on the same train of thought you were on. All the actual in-game interactions develop a sense of connection with the characters, specifically Aeris, who dies, and Cloud, who catches her in his arms when she collapses. Up until this point in the game, you'd played with Cloud as the main character throughout the story (or close to it), and it's almost like you ARE Cloud, watching Aeris die. (stretch your imagination a little, people)
But on the other hand, how much interaction is there with this game, really? Sure, there's long conversations between the characters, and they go deep into their past... but it's all forced. You don't get to make-up Cloud's past, that he thinks he's a SOLDIER and that he likes Aeris, etc. It's all forced upon you, just as much as the story of any movie is forced upon you. (Exception: You get to "pick" who you're going on a date with in the Golden Saucer. Sort of. Can this be enough to justify a more "connected" feeling with the characters of a game than the characters of a movie? Maybe, in someone's opinion.)
So what's my point? I don't think I have one, other than to say that I can understand and argue both sides of this debate. In the end, I think it comes down to how much you LET yourself feel like you're part of the world you're playing in. People cry in movies because they let themselves feel like they're in shoes of the person watching their war buddy die, or seeing their true love pass away of cancer, or whatever you cry about when you watch a movie. Just the same, if you feel like you're standing in front of Sephiroth, watching a 7 foot sword stab through a girl you like/love, you are probably more prone to feel emotion than if you think "it's just a game."
Parent
Re:One Word... (Score:3, Insightful)
How often have you cried in an action sequence in a movie? Not so often I would guess. Isn't the nature of those cry-moments in movies that they are all slowly paced and filled with little or no activity and in addition to that don't almost all cry-moments get initiated by some non-hero controlled force (Titanic sinks not due to the actions of any of the protagonist)? And if so, isn't it rather unfair to judge cry-moments in games by their amoun
Good point (Score:5, Insightful)
Perhaps games need to evolve into a more 'all or nothing' mindset. Currently all games are based on the idea that you can restart at any time and try again. Maybe the game that finally causes us to evoke major emotions will be one where you can't just 'try it again'. Maybe 'the next great game' will start you on a quest to save the world, give you teammates that you grow to care about, and not let you get them back when they get killed. Imagine playing a game and getting careless and having one of your teammates killed. The emotional impact could cause you to take the consequences of your actions much more seriously. You will start to think about characters as much more human if they stay dead.
That said, it doesn't mean it's impossible for a current game to evoke such strong emotions - just harder. I was playing 'Brothers in Arms: Earned in Blood' some time ago and had grown attached to my squadmates. In one level we were ambushed and one of my men couldn't get to cover fast enough and screamed out as he was riddled with bullets. My heart stuttered and, for a moment, I froze. It wasn't enough to make me cry, and it was only momentary (I reloaded the level and kept him out of harm's way), but I certainly felt a very strong, very real emotional shock.
Can a game make you cry? Yes. They can, and they will.
Parent
Poor poor Barny. Sniff... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:One Word... (Score:3, Funny)
Can games make you cry? (Score:3, Funny)
Seems the answer's easy... (Score:5, Insightful)
Sure (Score:2)
Ok, it wasn't quite that bad. I almost cried in Starcraft when (spoiler) that bastard guy left Kerrigan behind to die. Especially since my base was in absolutely no danger whatsoever of being overrun at that point.
Re:Sure (Score:2)
Duke Nukem Forever (Score:2, Funny)
Can they? (Score:2)
Re:Can they? (Score:5, Insightful)
This kind of underscores the link between surprise, fear, and humor. I thought it was pretty funny until the very end. Then I just felt bad for the kid, and kind of angry at the person behind the camera.
Parent
Re:Can they? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Can they? (Score:3, Interesting)
Yeah. Not only that, but movies themselves tend to warn kids -- the dramatic music, the mere fact that it's a movie allows the viewer to distance themselves as much as they want. Tricks like this game (and the related videos and animations) rely on the exact opposite -- they're usually trying to get you to spend all your attention on something, usually something that promises to be very faint, which makes the ultimate surprise vastly m
Console adaptions make me cry (Score:5, Funny)
Of course they can (Score:5, Interesting)
It's difficult to pinpoint what it is, until you turn the sound off. It's the music. I can watch (FF7+10 spoilers) Aerith die and Cloud's reaction, Tidus fading away as Yuna tries to hug him and falls through (end spoilers) without the sound on and barely batter an eyelid. Put the sad music in there and I'm blubbing like a girl. The emotions are there with or without, but the music is like a magnifying glass.
Re:Of course they can (Score:4, Informative)
That's my big problem with the FF series and games like it; they've become movies. Sure, you can hit a few buttons here and there to make you think you're "playing", but really it's just to get you to the next cut-scene.
I certainly know that games can frighten. Playing Metroid on my NES in a dark room at midnight finally getting to the Mother Brain freaked me out. 'Course I was ten, but still, that was scary.
Parent
Re:Of course they can (Score:5, Funny)
Thank you for demonstrating the subtle difference between "male" and "man".
Parent
Re:Of course they can (Score:4, Informative)
Boys try not to cry to prove they're all grown-up. Men don't have anything to prove.
Parent
Came close once... (Score:2)
(hey, I was just a kid then...)
Absolutely (Score:2)
Usually it begins as dismay when the installer crashes.
Followed by confusion when the developers message boards are bursting at the seams with people complaining about the same handfull of issus. Of course the front, and support pages mention nothing.
Perhaps a bit of joy that I find some obscure board that the workaround usually involves using virtual drive software to get around the copy protection.
Sadness when I find that my CD rom drive doesn't support the
Games Are No One Thing (Score:2)
A much worse question, since insofar as gaming is a "medium" at all it is not a unified one with a single purpose or style.
As far as "emotional maturity" in games goes, we'll see more of it once the game design process becomes more about game design and less about physics and graphics and character/world modelli
Not a new question, but still a good one (Score:2)
Hmm.
Ouendan! (Score:2)
Of course they can (Score:2)
Yes, been there done that (PS:T just now) (Score:4, Interesting)
As someone who just completed Planescape: Torment [wikipedia.org] for the first time about an hour ago [klopper.net], I can say YES.
PS. Best. Game. Evar.
How i see games. (Score:3, Interesting)
I think that illusion sort of breaks your identifiability with the character, there sort of an ambiguity for me between me as the character and me as the guy playing the character and i sort of find it easier to identify with a character that's not supposed to be me.
Examples for games that i can think of right now that stirred emotions for me are:
Fallout - I remember the end especially, when the hero saves the vault for the second time he is told he can never return to his home because he changed too much and would be a bad influence on the vault dwellers.
Homeworld - I love it how they added a whole spiritual side to what could have been just a space strategy game, and the music in the second one really contributed to the atmosphere.
Planescape Torment - The whole "What can change the nature of a man?" theme, search for identity.
There is a place for games that concentrate on skill developmenet.
But i think that as a form of art, a story-based game that doesn't stir emotion in you is missing its purpose.
"Can love bloom on the battlefield?" (Score:5, Insightful)
Ultima 7: Serpent Isle (Score:2)
Grim Fandango (Score:3, Interesting)
Also the flashback in the sensorium in Torment. And that was just text.
Serpent Isle was trying to be a tearjerker in the scene where Dupre dies, but since most of my party had died and been resurrected dozens of times before, it's just too hard to get attached. That and LB really just can't write drama (as U9 showed us)
Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater (Score:3, Interesting)
Two weird answers (Score:3, Insightful)
To quote the Bard of Avon (Score:3, Funny)
Gentlemen, make your time!
For great justice!
Sorry (sob) I just can't go on!
The Longest Journey (Score:3, Interesting)
Any recommendations on titles?
30 Aeris replies later....an indepth look at the Q (Score:3, Interesting)
Yes Final Fantasy VII may have made you cry but one game in 500 making you cry doesn't prove the theory. The question is can they make you cry, not which one.
And even worse, thanks for NOT reading the article, he clearly discusses Aeris' death and why he doesn't feel it really matches the standards he sets.
However at the same the question is "duh". Games can be beauty and are portrayed with stories, how can they not be impactful. It's the same as reading books, or watching movies, but even more involved. I would be willing to say games can have a large impact on our emotions. It's not just crying.
Rage, and fear came to me early, through a game called System Shock. Shock and despair in Chrono Trigger (the major character dying? not saying who). Happiness and Joy comes from many games.
So why focus on Crying, it's obvious games while interactive are just as story driven as any industry. It's true stories are not required (see madden or other sports games) but at the same time for a book or a movie you don't need a story. (See Comedy, books of stats, and a few movies that just show images rather then tell stories)
But if you want to know can games make you cry, ask any serious gamer. One who tries all types of games, they'll tell you, yes. For me it was Final Fantasy VI, tears of sadness when Cid died in the world of ruin, tears of joy when you find all your friends, tears during the opera scene (truely great).
There's others too of course, but that's one of the major ones. Chrono Trigger's reunion. The FFIV where rosa rejoins the group. Legend of Zelda Ocerina of Time was wonderful. Shadows of Colussus. Metal Gear Solid (more of tears of rage when I realized what had happened to Meryl).
So yeah the answer is yes. It's true almost all these things are non interactive but that's the point. If you really want to see if something interactive can make you cry that's fine, there's a couple games when a friend dies in a battle, but at the same time it's either extremely scripted so it's like a cutscene or it's a chance happening and a random guy dies you have little connection to.
If you want an example of interactive versions look into things like Knights of the Old Republic. However it's uneffective in getting people to tear up because they always seem to give an obvious way out, and the fact is you probably arn't going to get people killed unless you're trying to go down the evil path, and if you're evil you're not going to be crying, you're going to be cheering the death.
So the long story is yes, games are emotional and can move people to tears, however we are not yet at the point where a game can have a true moment of sorrow with out it being completely planned out to drive the maximum impact to the player. This is not because of bad game design but because we have yet to have true "freedom" even in open-world games.
Can Games Make You Cry? (Score:5, Funny)
What gives a game emotional power? (Score:3, Interesting)
It's hard to make a game that truly uses the medium to create powerful emotional scenes. Take one example, the death of Aeris in Final Fantasy VII. Most people acknowledge that it was a powerful scene, and with good reason. In some sense, you'd grown to know her character throughout the game, and so seeing her die was an emotional moment. Still, how does that use the nature of the medium? If I'm watching a good movie, I'll have the same reaction. If anything, the Mines of Moria scene in Fellowship of the Ring was more powerful. Might it be possible to use the interactivity of a game to create a branching path, with powerful and resonant consequences, no matter which way you choose?
I'm not saying this because Final Fantasy VII was so heavily FMV-based, either. In fact, it would be possible to create a game which was 95% FMV, but still used the interactivity present in a game to create emotional impact. The difference lies in the fact that FFVII had very little in the way of hard moral decisions. What if it were possible to save Aeris, but it ultimately meant the destruction of hundreds of other, innocent lives? Imagine this:
You're given two options. One, you can use some kind of evil materia you've picked up earlier in the game. It summons the life out of hundreds of others, and uses it to channel some sort of force which turns Sephiroth's blade aside, and drives him away. Cut to a scene of a small child desparately crying for his mother and father, who have died simply so your friend can live. Pull back and see the devastation - hundreds have died so that you could save Aeris, you selfish bastard. She stays with you, but never sees you in the same way. Or, choose option two: Cloud enters and watches Sephiroth kill Aeris, knowing that he (and you) could have done something, but that the end couldn't ever justify the means. Neither one is satisfying, but the choice defines who Cloud is, and what he's willing to do for his cause and his friends.
It's difficult to create a game which can allow you to make weighty moral decisions, but the result of a game which does this well is nothing short of incredible. Consider Planescape: Torment, or, to a lesser extent, the Knights of the Old Republic and Fallout games. They're all truly role-playing games; you can create your own character, with your own moral code. If you're out to save the world, might that justify shaking down peasants when you need the cash to buy that +57 Super Armor? After all, if you die, then they're doomed; better that they be short some cash rather than souls trapped in the Ultimate Doom Machine. On the other hand, aren't you fighting for these people? Heck, maybe you're just power-mad and psychotic, looking to take control of the Ultimate Doom Machine for yourself.
To me, a really emotional game would allow me to step into someone's shoes and make these decisions. In the real world, if I were to be some kind of super-powered hero, I'd have to make hard choices. A game which wants to make a strong emotional impact should force you to make hard choices as well; if the game makes your choices for you, then it can only ever operate on the emotional level of a movie. That's not a bad thing, but as a game, it's possible to use the nature of the medium to go further.