Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments
Search

News for nerds, stuff that matters

Slashdot Log In

Log In

Create Account  |  Retrieve Password

The 64% Violent Pacman

Posted by Zonk on Thu Jul 27, 2006 02:48 PM
from the hah dept.
Government Entertainment Games Politics
DreamWinkle writes "During the recent Senate hearings on video game violence, one expert claimed that the ESRB underrated violent games. They went on to say that Pacman was 64% violent. To some, this means you shouldn't play Pacman; to others, it highlights what's wrong with Senate hearings. Whether a game is violent or not depends on how you classify violence, and the ESRB has the job of doing just that. They're not regulated by the government, they let the game makers recommend their own ratings, and don't play every game they rate. Is the ESRB to be trusted?"
+ -
story

Related Stories

[+] ESRB Ratings Unfairly Targeted? 53 comments
John Callaham writes "The US video game ratings system created by the industry and the ESRB has come under attack in recent months, but is it really all that bad? FiringSquad decided to take an informal retail survey and compare how the ESRB rates games to how the movie and TV industry rates DVD releases." From the article: "One person who has been highly critical of the ESRB system is Leland Yee, the California Assemblyman who authored the bill that was signed into law last fall in that state that would ban the sales of certain games with violent content to minors (the law is currently not being enforced pending the conclusion of a court case started by the video/PC game industry). When the study of content descriptions in M-rated games was issued by Harvard earlier this month, Yee was quick to send out a press release ..."
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.

The 64% Violent Pacman 50 Comments More /

 Full
 Abbreviated
 Hidden
More
Loading... please wait.

  • 42 (Score:5, Funny)

    by davevt5 (30696) * on Thursday July 27 2006, @02:50PM (#15793922) Homepage Journal

    Saying Packman is "64% violet" is like saying the meaning of life is "42 [techtarget.com]".

    • Re:42 (Score:4, Insightful)

      by crystalattice (179900) on Thursday July 27 2006, @02:57PM (#15793995) Homepage
      I'm curious how they came to such an accurate "violence rating" of 64%? Do they have a list that they check off as they play? If it was a TV show, how would they classify it? TV13, TV7, TV7-FV(Fantasy Violence)?

      I think the whole ratings system needs an overhaul, and it needs to stay out of Congress. They can't even describe the Internet correctly or decide on a definition of "pornography"; how can they decide how violent something is?

    • 64% violet? (Score:5, Funny)

      by sharkey (16670) on Thursday July 27 2006, @03:03PM (#15794053)
      Actually, I thought he was 100% yellow.

  • I see you (Score:5, Funny)

    by kyouteki (835576) <kyouteki@g[ ]l.com ['mai' in gap]> on Thursday July 27 2006, @02:50PM (#15793925) Homepage
    I'll say Pac-Man's violent. Have you ever seen what he does to those poor ghosts? Eats 'em and leaves nothing but the eyes. Gruesome stuff, man.

  • Waka (Score:4, Funny)

    by Sweeman (980241) on Thursday July 27 2006, @02:52PM (#15793942) Homepage
    Of course it's violent. Power pellets have feelings too!

  • This Just In... (Score:5, Funny)

    by nsmike (920396) on Thursday July 27 2006, @02:52PM (#15793950)
    "...US Government declares eating violent."

  • I've seen... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by MorderVonAllem (931645) on Thursday July 27 2006, @02:52PM (#15793953)
    ...G rated movies that are more violent than pacman...what was this guy smoking? This definetly highlights what's wrong with the Senate.

  • int or long? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Doches (761288) <Doches@noSpAm.gmail.com> on Thursday July 27 2006, @02:53PM (#15793955)
    If they're using int for that number, I suspect that games like GTA come in with a rather nice ranking, somewhere around -17%...

  • So what happened...? (Score:5, Funny)

    by steveo777 (183629) on Thursday July 27 2006, @02:56PM (#15793983) Homepage Journal
    What happened to the other 44%? Is that just the start and hi-score screens?

  • Anyone have more information? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Jerf (17166) on Thursday July 27 2006, @02:57PM (#15793998) Journal
    Obviously, the context-free statement that Pac-Man is "64% violent" is pretty silly. I doubt you can really measure a game's violence that way. "Percent" implies certain mathematical properties, like Pac-Man is exactly twice as violent as a 32% violent game, or that each individual thing that contributes a given number of percentage points is equally violent, and perhaps most entertainingly, that it is impossible for a game to be more than slightly over 50% more violent than Pac-Man. (Bet you didn't know that Grand Theft Auto is only ~50% more violent than Pac-Man!)

    Numbers should not be assigned to fundamentally non-numeric entities, that way lies a number of cognitive and rhetorical traps.

    But I am curious, does anyone have more information on where that number may have come from precisely, however flawed it may be? Ideally, some form of "violence checklist", where you check off various attributes of the game and add up the "score".

    I'm sure it will allow us to all-the-more effectively collectively mock the number, but hey, who knows, maybe the list will have some redeeming value.

    • Re:Anyone have more information? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Guuge (719028) on Thursday July 27 2006, @03:19PM (#15794210)

      I managed to dig up a little from a site by the creators of the study [harvard.edu]. Here's the juicy bit:

      One author (Kevin Haninger) reviewed and coded all of the recorded game play, noting the starting and ending times of each incident of violence toward other characters, the type of weapons used for violence, whether the violent incident resulted in injury or death, and the number of character deaths attributable to the violent incident. The JAMA article contains a table that lists each video game we played, as well as the genre, console, release year, ESRB-assigned content descriptors, and our measures of violence.

      So it seems that the number refers to the percentage of time that the game is violent. Now, how is violence defined such that Pacman gets such a brutal rating?

      We defined violence as acts in which the aggressor causes or attempts to cause physical injury or death to another character. We did not include damage to objects, accidental actions that unintentionally harmed another character, the effects of natural disasters, or the presence of dangerous obstacles that could not be attributed to the actions of a particular character. We also did not count as violence any intentional acts of physical force that represented normal play in a sports game (e.g., tacking in football or checking in hockey), because the intention of the player is technically to stop the other player without causing injury. We did count excessive physical contact in sports games, such as punching or otherwise attacking another player (e.g., after the football play was over).

      If Pacman's ghosts were replaced by rolling boulders, it would have nearly no violence. Discuss.

      • Re:Anyone have more information? (Score:5, Interesting)

        by Jerf (17166) on Thursday July 27 2006, @03:29PM (#15794313) Journal
        Ghosts are, by definition, already dead.

        Can you really commit violence against them?

        Moreover, it's not immediately obvious that Pac-Man is alive either. (Discuss. :) )
        • Maybe Pac-Man isn't really harming the ghosts. He's not eating the Ghosts, they live on. He's eating their clothing. The so called ghosts simply return home and don another sheet when Pac-Man catches them.

          Maybe Pac-Man is really just a creature that enjoys the taste of clothing worn by a dark skinned creature. Eating the clothing seems to be enjoyable to Pac-Man, but receiving a whip crack to the ass from the mystical material transports Pac-Man back to his starting position.

          How do we know the Ghosts don't enjoy chasing Pac-Man! They get to smack him on the rear if they catch him, but if he catches them they have to go home naked. It could all be in fun and jest, and us dolts of the human race have misinterpreted the entire ritual!
      • We did count excessive physical contact in sports games, such as punching or otherwise attacking another player (e.g., after the football play was over).
        This is a compelling statement. It implicitly states that violent sports aren't violence, in the eyes of the study. Tackling a football player inside a computer game isn't violent as long as its in the context of the game. Why is this? What are football, soccer, and rugby if not mock combat? Where do they get their free pass from being considered violent? If you look at the spectrum of mock combat activities, ranging from Chess to Football to PVP in World Of Warcraft, you have to admit that Football is the ONLY activity where someone is actually liable to be hurt in the normal course of the game. And yet computer games seem to be the target of all the ire.

        Next time a politician starts taking pot shots at violence in 'games', join his campaign and try to expand it to include Chess and Football. See how it goes.

    • Re:Anyone have more information? (Score:4, Funny)

      by soft_guy (534437) on Thursday July 27 2006, @04:30PM (#15794825)
      If you take the binary of the original arcade pac-man and disassemble it, you will find that 64% of the assembly instructions contain the so called "violent bit".
  • Baseball -- People whack the heck out of an innocent little ball with a large wooden club.
    Football -- People kick the heck out of an innocent ball.
    American Football -- Two teams blitz, bomb, and violently tackle each other.
    Hockey -- Nuff said.
    Basketball -- People bounce an innocent ball repeatedly against a hard floor.
    Pong Pong -- People whack a very small ball back and forth.
    Golf -- People whack a very small ball, often wounding it and/or sending it into water/sand.

    They all sound unacceptable violent to me...

  • Ahh, nostalgia.... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by sesshomaru (173381) on Thursday July 27 2006, @03:00PM (#15794025) Journal
    When I was in grammar school, I can remember the teachers complaining about violent videogames. "Space Invaders is just about killing things," they'd say, "And in Pac-Man you are eating them up."

    I'm not kidding around here, I believe I was in 6th grade. Another thing I remember about 6th grade was live white mice being fed to the class snake for the edification of our young minds.

    So, Pac-Man eating Ghosts==Evil and Wrong

    Real Snake eating Real Mice==Edumacational.

  • Remaing 36% percent... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Valdrax (32670) on Thursday July 27 2006, @03:06PM (#15794075)
    The remaining 36% percent has been determined to consist of:
    15.08% squeely beeps
    18.00% necrophagy
    27.71% drugs
    24.02% gender ambiguity
    10.62% spin-offs
      4.08% blue period
      0.57% unknown... scratch that... tar

  • They don't play every game they rate? (Score:4, Informative)

    by ObligatoryUserName (126027) on Thursday July 27 2006, @03:22PM (#15794234) Journal
    they don't play every game they rate? !??

    My understanding is that they don't play any game they rate.

    Have things changed? Their description seems a little off. I'll highlight what they seem to get wrong in the quote from the article below.

    Instead of having members of the ESRB sit down and play the games in order to decide a rating, developers must submit a written report of everything the game includes. They must also compile a video that is representative of the content a gamer will find in the game when they purchase it at the store. Additionally, the game is played by a number of people who are unaffiliated to the game industry, and who then recommend the game's rating. All three elements, as well as others, are taken into consideration when the rating is assigned.

    For the first highlight, it's a little misleading, "representative of the content a gamer will find" makes it sound like a representitive cross-section of the content. So, for a game like Animal Crossing you would expect hours of gathering fruit and catching fish. But actually the footage is of selected acts and elements (there is a list) and of those acts or elements carried out the the greatest degree present anywhere in the game. So, for Animal Crossing you would have footage of the character getting bitten by Tarantulas and Scorpions, showing the greatest degree of violence in the game.

    They make a point of saying that they don't care about the context of the event, because a parent glancing over at the screen won't care either.

    This system is why Rockstar is liable in the eyes of the ESRB for not disclosing the content on the disc - they shipped those animation paths, models,et al. They provided footage that was supposed to show the greatest degree of sexuality on the disc and it was probably just kissing and a bouncing car. It doesn't matter that it required a hack to access because the ESRB doesn't care how the shipped content is played, they just care about the content.

    For the second point, "the game is played by a number of people who are unaffiliated to the game industry" -- maybe I just don't remember the process correctly and maybe it's changed, but I don't think that you ever send the ESRB actual code. After all, a lot of games recieve their ratings before they're complete.

  • Poor Duke... (Score:5, Funny)

    by creimer (824291) on Thursday July 27 2006, @03:24PM (#15794254) Homepage
    It's a sad day that the King of American Macho Violence, Duke Nukem, is cast from this throne to be replaced by a pill-popping, ghost-seeing Japanese pizza missing a quarter-slice. Only if Duke Nukem Forever was released would things turn around for our beloved hero.

  • Ratings are a Guide (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Xibby (232218) <zibby+slashdot@ringworld.org> on Thursday July 27 2006, @03:27PM (#15794293) Homepage Journal
    It is impossible to create a mathematical model to quantify any creative work. What may work for one movie won't work for another. What will work for a coffee blend won't work for a painting. What will work for an abstract painting won't work for a impressionist painting.

    A rating isn't anything based in fact or science. Any rating, including those for movies, games, 4 starts, 5 stars, etc. isn't based in math and science, they are based on opinion and criteria deemed important for the medium.

    The MPAA and ESRB are just a bunch of critics who happen to use an established set of criteria to establish a somewhat consistent system of judging the content.

    As with any critic, you have to be in an educated consumer. Not everyone agrees with Ebert and Roper, but Ebert and Roper have a track record that you can depend on which allows you to make decisions based on their opinions. The same can be said for the MPAA and ESRB. Content is reviewed and critiqued based on the board's criteria for material appropriate to age group X, Y, and Z.

  • this just in (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Some_Llama (763766) on Thursday July 27 2006, @04:02PM (#15794618) Homepage Journal
    "65% of the population will believe any quote as long as the name that accompanies it is held in high regard." -Albert Einstein

  • Big win for P3!! (Score:4, Funny)

    by kinglink (195330) on Thursday July 27 2006, @05:13PM (#15795097)
    We, the People for the Protection of Pellets have struck the first blow. Now our oppressor, who calls himself Pacman will feel the wraith of the government. No longer will our pellets be required to get help from ghosts to stop the evil yellow menace from attacking them. No longer will we have to worry about the "Power Pellet" who have betrayed us. All we ask is freedom for our white brethren!

    DEATH TO THE HUNGRY ONE!
  • I happen to know a lot about Senate hearings. They are a series of connected tubes, and when you get 3 or 4 violent video games moving through these tubes, they get clogged up. Just last week, my staff sent me a Senate Hearing, and it took a whole day to get there.

    • Re:Show Me! (Score:5, Informative)

      by Guuge (719028) on Thursday July 27 2006, @03:39PM (#15794419)
      You joke, but they're dead serious. Of the 65 games studied, Super Mario Brothers ranked #5 in the death rate. It earned a whopping 4.8 deaths per minute! This "Mario" guy must be some kind of mass murderer. Read it & weep. [harvard.edu]

      • Re:Nice attempt at not connecting the dots. (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Turn-X Alphonse (789240) on Thursday July 27 2006, @03:40PM (#15794435) Journal
        No we don't expect you to play through a game, but being remotely informed on the topic is a good idea. Is it really so difficult to slap the games name in Google and look at the reviews, trailers and screenshots? We live in an era with free research in effect, make use of it and spend five minutes checking the game out.

        While it may not cover every little cut scene and detail it will cover 90% of the content or at least give you a good idea of the context. Plus some times something which challenges YOUR view is good for your kids, it lets them see that mummy and daddy arn't always right and to think for themselvs a bit.

        While it may not be popular with the Slashdot crowd who seem to want 100% freedom for everyone but kids who need to be handcuffed to the parents constantly, you have to remember to challenge your kids and their ideas/opinions/ideals at times. It lets them develope ways to deal with it and become a real person rather than a mini version of you built to follow instead of lead.

      • Re:Nice attempt at not connecting the dots. (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Atzanteol (99067) on Thursday July 27 2006, @03:45PM (#15794480) Homepage

        Do you expect me to purchase a game and play it through before I give it to my children?

        Good lord no! I fully expect you to do as little as possible and yet maintain your expectation that your children will not be exposed to things you don't care for.

      • Re:Nice attempt at not connecting the dots. (Score:5, Insightful)

        by vertinox (846076) on Thursday July 27 2006, @05:02PM (#15795032)
        Do you expect me to purchase a game and play it through before I give it to my children?

        No.

        Because if your children become mass murderers, drug addicts, or sex offenders when they grow up... Then chances are it wasn't because they played Doom or looked at a Playboy magazine.

        I'd say it will have to do something to the fact you did not take interest in their lives or didn't love them unconditionally. That and teach them a good moral framework and the ability to discern fantasy from reality (and the importance of higher education and getting a job)

        Many of us 20-30 somethings today as kids played D&D, listened to "satanic" heavy metal, looked at playboys, played violent video games (Wolf3d and Doom), read really violent comics, and even tried to smoke a cigarrette before we were 13 back in the late 80's and early 90s... Yet today 99.99% of us slashdotters are well adjusted people who are very successful in what we do who are starting to have families on their own.

        You could let your kids play GTA all they want (as long as it doesn't interfere with sleep, school, and social activities) and they won't turn into criminal or evil person.

        The reason kids do turn out bad is because video games are often used in lieu of a parent. It doesn't matter if it Pac Man, Doom3, Mortal Kombat, My Little Pony, EQ, Barney Loves Kids, or Mario Brothers.

        If you think raising kids means simply means putting your kid in front of a TV or computer and letting them sit there forever without ever being involved in their life... Then well... You are going to be suprised when they don't come home after 3 in the morning and are failing every class they have in school.

        At the same time... A kid who plays Doom and GTA can still have good grades and social skills if you moderate his playing time and have him do other activities like chores, reading books, and schoolwork.

        Even then you still can make those things fun... Give your 12 year old the Lord of the Rings trilogy book and after he reads them let him watch the movie. Your 8 year old passes his grade with flying colors... Go buy him a video game... Don't be as much concerned about the content of the game as how he reacts to it. As in... Just because he sees people behave in a certain way or say certain words that it isn't ok for them to say it or do those things.

All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective owners. Comments are owned by the Poster. The Rest © 1997-2009 Geeknet, Inc.