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Square and Blizzard Drop The Banhammer

Posted by Zonk on Thu Jul 27, 2006 02:10 PM
from the splat dept.
Role Playing (Games)
Gamespot has the news that Square has banned some 2000 accounts from FFXI, and Eurogamer reports that Blizzard has banned 59,000 accounts from World of Warcraft. The bans come as game publishers continue to attempt to crack down on Real Money Traders in their titles. From the FFXI article: "The news follows Square Enix's crackdown of 250 accounts in June over money-farming and real-money trading, which is the practice of selling in-game currency for cash in the real world. Concerns over real-money trading prompted the Japanese government--particularly worried about large-scale money-mining operations in video games--to launch its own investigation last week."
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  • Wrong Headline (Score:5, Funny)

    by Drogo007 (923906) on Thursday July 27 2006, @02:14PM (#15793546)
    Should be something like: Game companies expect revenue increase as banned gold farmers buy new accounts...

    Same Crap, Different Day

    • Re:Wrong Headline (Score:5, Interesting)

      by GundamFan (848341) on Thursday July 27 2006, @02:17PM (#15793575)
      Yeah really... The one thing I have to give to Eve is it's mature attitude towards PvP... players actualy hunt down the farmers and disrupt there trade. I would like to see a WoW player care that much about the health of there game.

      • Re:Wrong Headline (Score:5, Interesting)

        by mrxak (727974) on Thursday July 27 2006, @02:20PM (#15793616)
        There was some of that on my server, back when I played. But certainly not enough. It didn't take long before it was simply too dangerous to go into the farmer's territory. If you tried to tag mobs before they could kill them, they'd call in their farmer friends of the other faction to start killing you over and over.

      • Re:Wrong Headline (Score:5, Insightful)

        by milamber3 (173273) on Thursday July 27 2006, @02:23PM (#15793641)
        A lot of WoW players do care about the game and farming just as much. Unfortunately the game is not setup the same way EVE is and there isn't a mechanism to allow anyone to go out and kill/impede the farmers. Some PVP servers may allow for a small amount of policing but the majority of servers don't even have that.

        • Re:Wrong Headline (Score:4, Insightful)

          by SatanicPuppy (611928) * <[Satanicpuppy] [at] [gmail.com]> on Thursday July 27 2006, @02:37PM (#15793796) Journal
          To police effectively in WoW, you have to be able to police your own side. It's too hard to tell who's farming on the other side when they're immediately hostile, and you can't talk to them anyway.

          I've been on guild "Squish the Farmer" events, but all to often it turns into a pitched battle because people on the other side misinterpret your assault on the farmers. Anyway, that's of extremely limited utility anyway, because the economics of the sides only impact each other through the little-utilized neutral auction houses.
            • Or have the foot of God come down from the heavens and squash the farmers to a fart sound, show the farmers "and now, for something completely different..." and put them on a farm where all they can do is farm vegetables with no connection to the outside world.

      • This would only be possible on a pvp server, where farmers often farm in cross faction teams and just kill anyone who gets close. Maybe with overwhelming numbers you could stop them for a short time but they'd just move elsewhere or stop for as long as it takes for people to get bored.

        • This would only be possible on a pvp server, where farmers often farm in cross faction teams and just kill anyone who gets close.
          thats not correct.

          The typical farmer controls 10 or more PCs and uses cheat tools to get to impossible positions from where he can shoot on mobs, e.g. Because he controls so many PCs je usually uses a hunter or a rogue, in very shitty gear. The rogues are usually 2 sword rogues and just do autoattack on mobs. Hunters usually also only send pet, without mark, and use autoshot.

          Some
              • The problem is that WoW does not have complete open ended PvP in that you cannot kill members of your own side, alliance or horde, who are farming or generally being jerks. The duel is crap because you have to issue the challenge and they can always refuse. The loser of the duel doesn't loose very much either so that makes the duel doubly unappealing. They need to have a server where anyone can kill anyone else at any time for any reason. That may sound like a bad idea, but really some of the best MUDs back
      • I haven't played EVE in a while, and I've never played WoW, but doesn't farming have a different effect on the economy in Eve? Rather than inflation, doesn't it make things cheaper? If there is a huge influx of minerals, the price of them goes down and items get cheaper to manufacture. Where as in WoW you get raw gold coming in and devaluing the current gold that people have. Or am I way off here? What is the real problem with farming in Eve?

        -matthew
        • I haven't played EVE in a while, and I've never played WoW, but doesn't farming have a different effect on the economy in Eve? Rather than inflation, doesn't it make things cheaper? If there is a huge influx of minerals, the price of them goes down and items get cheaper to manufacture. Where as in WoW you get raw gold coming in and devaluing the current gold that people have. Or am I way off here? What is the real problem with farming in Eve?

          -matthew

          The basic problem is the same, the devaluation of the curr

          • The basic problem is the same, the devaluation of the currency. The farmers in EVE sell the minerals in-game for ISK, the equivalent of WoW gold. Then they sell the ISK for real-world money, thus de-valuing the currency in-game. The deflation of mineral prices (which adversely affects players who have chosen mining as a profession) is a secondary harmful effect of their activities.

            But isn't the devaluation of ISK in EVE offset by cheaper hardware? When I played EVE, I was into manufacturing. When I could ge

          • In EVE, farmers have to sell their minerals to other players who have put up buy orders. This means that no currency is being created in the transaction, unlike most games where farmers sell their loot/whatever to NPCs which generate money out of thin air.

        • I haven't played EVE in a while, and I've never played WoW, but doesn't farming have a different effect on the economy in Eve? Rather than inflation, doesn't it make things cheaper? If there is a huge influx of minerals, the price of them goes down and items get cheaper to manufacture. Where as in WoW you get raw gold coming in and devaluing the current gold that people have. Or am I way off here? What is the real problem with farming in Eve?

          EVE's economy is so in-depth and profound... "macro-miners" in EVE
    • Lets see here...

      59,000 X $40.00 = $2,360,000

      Damn, time to invest in blizzard stock....

          • Re:Wrong Headline (Score:4, Insightful)

            by Incoherent07 (695470) on Thursday July 27 2006, @03:41PM (#15794448)
            Except that in order to play on the WoW US realms you need a US account, and you can't interact between the different segments of the world (US/EU/China/Korea/etc.), so in order to farm gold for US buyers they'd need a US box.

  • Good, Ban Them (Score:5, Interesting)

    by mrxak (727974) on Thursday July 27 2006, @02:16PM (#15793560)
    Back when I played WoW, the server I was on was pretty much owned by gold farmers. They drove up the prices on everything, and unfortunately a lot of players just went along with it. People would buy in-game currency with real money to pay for things in the game sold by those selling the in-game money they got from those inflated sales. A vicious circle, but I guess some players felt it was worth it.

  • Oh Noes!!! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Scott Lockwood (218839) * on Thursday July 27 2006, @02:16PM (#15793564) Homepage Journal
    Now what will I do?? - Oh wait - I know, I'll keep ignoring WoW like I have been since it first came out! How ANYONE can support Blizzard after the whole Bnetd thing is TOTALLY beyond me. Screw them. Screw them right in the ear.
    • Care to explain what you're referring to? I've never had a problem with battle.net...
      • For Bnetd information:

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bnetd [wikipedia.org]

        I don't buy anything from Blizzard based on this idiocy and support of unconstitutional laws in order to control content. No thanks.

        • Re:Oh Noes!!! (Score:4, Interesting)

          by syntaxglitch (889367) on Thursday July 27 2006, @03:05PM (#15794073)
          I really don't see the point of going nazi over one of the few cases where it was actually semi-legitimate.

          1) Arguing that bnetd enabled piracy is dumb; pirated copies could still be played offline, over a LAN, or through other workarounds. Furthermore, the bnetd developers offered to add support for verifying CD keys against a Blizzard server but were ignored (yes, individuals running bnetd could hack the source to disable the check, but that'd make it pretty obvious what they were up to, and Blizzard could've nailed them, not bnetd itself).

          2) People are banned from bnet for other things, such as cheating, and there's a fair population of jerks on bnet. Someone with a valid license may want to play online but be unable or unwilling to use bnet. I own a legit copy of war3 but I'd definitely rather play with friends on a private server.

          3) Blizzard's (well, I think it's Vivendi's) management and legal department already had a reputation among a lot of people for being grand assholes, so people weren't inclined to give them any benefit of the doubt.

          I'll agree it's not the WORST use of the DMCA, but it's still pretty indefensible. People have a reason for holding this particular grudge.
          • Considering the uses the DMCA is commonly put toward, a game company using it so say, "If you're going to play one of our games over the internet, you've got to use our free service" is so low on the list so as not to register.

            I'd love to see that crappy law thrown out and copyright intelligently reformed, but this is hardly the place to pick your fight.

    • Re:Oh Noes!!! (Score:5, Insightful)

      by dada21 (163177) * <adam.dada@gmail.com> on Thursday July 27 2006, @02:27PM (#15793700) Homepage Journal
      How is this a troll? This is a very important opinion and one that I support 100%. Blizzard used the DMCA to blow an open source company out of existance (and take over their domain name and property). The attitude here should not be "Blizzard is doing this and that" it should be "Blizzard, the company that used the unconstitutional DMCA against individuals committing no property crime, is still in business. Let's remind each other not to ever buy anything by Blizzard or Vivendi again."

      I'm always shocked how pro-freedom geeks forget their morals when it comes to a game or a product they like. Blizzard is Vivendi, folks, and Vivendi is evil based on their corruption of Congress. Why are we still caring what they do to players who forgot they're evil?

      • Re:Oh Noes!!! (Score:5, Interesting)

        by Have Blue (616) on Thursday July 27 2006, @02:52PM (#15793948) Homepage
        Standard answer: Slashdot is more than one person. There are people out there who watched the whole Bnetd mess and really are not buying Blizzard or Vivendi products right now. There are people out there who ignored or missed out on the whole Bnetd mess and are buying Blizzard or Vivendi products solely on their own merits. There are even people who watched the whole Bnetd mess and decided the outcome and the issues it raised were not important enough to make them give up the experience of playing future Blizzard products.

        Also, it wasn't just some random company blown away because Blizzard felt like being mean. Bnetd was intimately tied to Blizzard's products and business model and they created this relationship without any cooperation or even permission from Blizzard.
      • As with most things, there are some heavy shades of gray with the bnetd thing.

        Most people were using bnetd not only to emulate Battle.net servers, but pirate the games. There is no DRM on any Blizzard CDs. People were logging into bnetd because there was no CD key check like batt.net.

        Slashdot users cleverly ignore the fact that the majority (nay, nearly all) bnetd users were using it to get around buying the games from Blizzard. I personally get rather tired of this "Blizzard/Vivendi is evil" crap when t

        • How is the DMCA unconstitutional? (I'm not trying to be contrarian here; well, OK, maybe I am, but I'm honestly curious as well.)

          Good question. The U.S. Congress has very specific enumerated powers as listed in the U.S. Constitution. Anything that isn't specifically enumerated for Congress to govern/make laws for is considered a right of the State or the Individual.

          The DMCA has no provision in the U.S. Constitution. I believe that the law passes muster only because individuals of today have accepted an o

            • Re:constitutionality? (Score:4, Informative)

              by dada21 (163177) * <adam.dada@gmail.com> on Thursday July 27 2006, @07:25PM (#15795759) Homepage Journal
              No, DMCA has nothing to do with copyright. DMCA is about reverse engineering, not about duplicating or distribution.

              Also, it could be well argued (not by me as I repudiate copyright entirely) that DMCA has not been enforced by "authors" nor "inventors" but by distribution cartels. Again, not within the meaning of the Constitution.

              The DMCA has zero to do with copyright and everything to do with enforcing actions of others that any free thinker would deem legal. Figuring out how something works is part of making a new device that will be better (and not potentially disturb any patents). The DMCA prevents you from figuring out how something works -- it doesn't actually enable or disable copying.
    • Hm,

      Blizzard is one of the best game companies, for me at least.

      Bnetd is a clone of Battlenet, disrupting blizzards way. It was completely leagal for them and in my eyes completely appropriated to go against Bnetd. And if the poor (my pitty) developers of Bnetd had any clue about anything they did have not done that stupid project. Everyone working as creator (programmer) should have some basic idea how copyright works.

      How ANYONE can support Blizzard after the whole Bnetd thing is TOTALLY beyond me. Hm I'm n

  • Who cares? It's nothing new. (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    First off, no one cares about FFXI outside of Japan. But even pretending anyone does:

    No one cares about Blizzard doing it, either. Why?

    Because they've been banning accounts all along. It's not news. Blizzard bans more gold farmers, twice as many spring up. It's not going to go away just because some accounts were banned.

    Now, if this were news about how Blizzard was planning on redesigning their MMORPG to make gold farming a non-issue (and, to be honest, it really is already: the best stuff is gotten th

    • The news with FFXI is that the Japanese government [gamespot.com] is looking into gold farming. (That's the link from the Slashdot summary, you might want to read the entire thing.)

      Plus, if you actually read the articles, they mention that the banning activity has greatly increased this month.

      So, yes, it's news: MMORPG companies are banning more accounts over gold selling activies than they have been.

  • i report farmers (Score:4, Interesting)

    by SolemnDragon (593956) * <solemndragon&gmail,com> on Thursday July 27 2006, @02:19PM (#15793602) Homepage Journal
    Inflation in games is a lot easier to trace than inflation in the real world. It's a much smaller economy- until you drag the 'outer' economy into it.

    I think we should be banned from BUYING gold, too.

    Report sellers, report bots, the next time someone whispers to you ingame to visit their WoWgold site, report it under the behaviour tag in the reporting options. This becomes especially important for casual players, who just can't compete.

    I know, isn't that just an artificial control? No, it's more like cracking down on forgery- this is wealth that was created for the purpose of selling it, which makes it an otherwise unnecessary element in the economy that hurts the whole.

    I say yay, keep up the farmer bans.

    On an unrelated note, every time i clean out my bookbag, i wish vendors in real life bought the trash...
        • Sorta, but if there's 10x as much gold, you can usually make money off doing things a player with two years in the game and a bunch of upper level characters wouldn't want to do. Everquest did a good job of this by requiring low-level mob drops in a bunch of crafting recipes and as spell reagents. They were just inconvenient enough that a level 60 wouldn't want to go out and farm themselves, but plentiful enough that as a newb you could make decent money off them.

          And especially in today's quest-based games
            • For Kesmai, all i have to say id: asak nungi irga lubluyi.

              And i probably spelled it wrong.

              Here's the problem with farmers. A casual player can make gear that sells for 10g in the auction house. This will enable them to equip their character pretty well, not great but not bad, with a new item that someone else produced or looted.

              But wait! Gold farmers mean that for a little real money, everybody who is willing to pay can suddenly have as much gold as they need.

              This means that prices go up, because the standa

  • Another day another GP (Score:5, Insightful)

    by entmike (469980) on Thursday July 27 2006, @02:22PM (#15793624) Homepage
    (Bannings) -59,000 * $15 = -$885,000/mo
    (New acct) 59,000 * $40 = +$2,360,000
    (Monthly fee) 59,000 * $15 = $885,000/mo

    Looks like the business model is working for the farmers and Blizzard. Kind of like a farming tax. :)
  • I would like to congratulate the Japanese government for solving all of its countries other problems. I mean, they must have solved everthing else if this is somehow now a priority to them, right?

  • Lesson to be learned (Score:3, Interesting)

    by thelost (808451) on Thursday July 27 2006, @02:28PM (#15793706) Journal
    There's a lesson to be learned from this, banning gold farmers and the people who buy from them doesn't work. 59k accounts banned in WoW? That's ridiculous. It tells me the economics are still not working (I played WoW for a year and saw how bad they were). If games companies want to solve this they will have to come up with some stronger defence. such as:

    a) better economics.
    b) no tweaking.
    c) tie characters to credit card details (will cause problems with gamecards).
    d) better economics.
    e) allow gold/character selling, but moderate and oversee it.

    Blizz and any other games company who thinks about doing another MMOG better get this sorted before they write the next blockbuster, as otherwise I foresee thousands of bald programmers in darkened rooms pulling out their hair and screaming as they have to deal with the intricacies of propping up dying economies and stopping farming rather than writing stuff they actually are interested in.
    • Every time someone starts screaming about the game economics being utterly broken, I have to wonder about their actual evidence. I've played seriously on about 5 servers, and I currently play the auction house on two, and all I see are very predictable supply and demand fluctuations. Stuff goes up today, and down tomorrow. Prices run up on the weekends, and taper off during the week.

      Sure you see items that are overpriced, and sometimes those get purchased. More often, however, you see the same item up for sale for a week or more, and get to watch its price trending gradually down until someone buys it.

      It's not rampant inflation. It's exactly the sort of cyclical activity I would expect given variable supply.

      So give me some data on this completely broken model, because I'm not seeing it.

  • It IS something new (Score:5, Insightful)

    by JavaLord (680960) on Thursday July 27 2006, @02:29PM (#15793723) Journal
    About 2-3 months ago Blizzard really started to crack down on the buyers and the sellers of gold in World of Warcraft. Before that they would sometimes ban farmers if they caught them. What they've started to do is take back gold from the buyers when they ban seller accounts. This led to a large jump in the price of gold. Where gold was selling for around 2000G for $125 USD a few months ago, it's back around 1000G for $169 USD. That is a huge jump.

    I've actually heard of people quitting WoW over this, because the only way they thought they could compete with full time players was with buying gold. Between the growing gear gap, and increasing price of gold, it's making some people reconsider playing.
    • Between the growing gear gap, and increasing price of gold...

      I think a lot of politications would do pretty well in November running on a platform to eliminate the "Gear Gap".

    • You are a part of the problem (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      1. It is a _game_.
      2. No matter how big someone else's equipment is, yours is good enough to play, have fun, and be happy.
      3. Trying to compete with others for time, money, or equipment size is always going to leave you lacking.
      4. Trying to play with "full time players" if you aren't one is a waste of time. Find "part time players" and play with them. The full time players aren't having more fun.

      Please, if you have to compete by purchasing gold to "catch up" then don't play.

  • Gold farmers (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2006, @02:30PM (#15793730)
    I always thought the best way to remove farmers was to create a game that's fun to play in ALL regards; farmers only exist because part of the game is so tedious that many players don't want to bother with it. Personally, I'd be insulted if people were paying money NOT to play my game...

    • That's a very good point (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Von Rex (114907) on Thursday July 27 2006, @03:03PM (#15794059)
      I wish I had mod points today. You are exactly correct, people buy gold so they can skip a lot of the game. The reason they do this is because WOW is perhaps the most boring RPG ever created.

      I borrowed a friends discs once and bought a month's worth of access just so I can see what all the fuss was about. I simply couldn't believe how bad this game is. All of the quests were of the "find ten of these useless things and get back to me" or "kill that asshole over there" variety. My seven year old son's Putt-Putt and Freddi Fish games have more depth.

      And I really hate how everything seems to "charge" you in time. Cast a spell, wait a few seconds. Open a chest, wait a few seconds longer. It's like the whole mechanic of this game is to make me sit here wasting my life watching progress bars while charging me $15 a month to do so. And then there's the fact that half the game experience is watching your character's back while he trudges slowly across the landscape.

      And there's other really dumb things in the basic interface. You click on a guy attacking you from behind with your sword and it says "facing wrong direction". Well no fucking shit, man. I thought I communicated my intention to turn around and whack that fucker when I right-clicked on the monster. The game is filled with stuff like this. I had far, far more fun playing Diablo online.

      I'm just not getting why this is the most successful game of all time. Maybe it gives obsessive-complusive people something to do? Seems like the best play here is to just not get involved in it in the first place.

      • Re:That's a very good point (Score:5, Insightful)

        by brkello (642429) on Thursday July 27 2006, @05:06PM (#15795057)
        Actually, no, neither of you are correct. It doesn't matter how fun the game is, there will always be people who want to get ahead of others by any means possible in an MMO. As long as some person with more money than sense wants to be greater than other people, this will be the case. If there is no economy in the game and characters progress on their own merits, then the accounts will be sold. Buying gold has nothing to do with the boredom, it has to do with getting ahead.

        You played a little of the game. You are right, a lot of the quests are fairly boring kill and fetch sort of things. But for the most part, you have no idea what you are talking about. Abilities you have take time because this game has PvP elements in it. If everything was instant, then it would be overpowered and make playing against other players less interesting. The same with the turning and facing your enemy. If there wasn't PvP, fine...make you turn and face and whack away. But this game was designed with PvP in mind. Controlling you chracter is essential when competing with other players.

        Beyond this, the best items in the game can not even be purchased with gold. All of it has to be done through working with other players to down interesting bosses that require teamwork and strategy. This is really where the game begins. Whacking a few bunnies at low level isn't going to show you anything.

        It is more successful than other games because it is more accessible to people who don't have a lot of time. Other MMOs force you to group up and spend hours online just to level. With WoW, you can solo your way up to the highest level at your own pace.

      • Re:That's a very good point (Score:5, Interesting)

        by coldtone (98189) on Thursday July 27 2006, @06:03PM (#15795374) Homepage
        I just hit level 40 and wanted to get a mount. That would take about 90 gold, and I figured it would take me about a month to save that much. (I'm a casual player, maybe 5 hours a week). For $12 I got all the money I needed, in an hour.

        New the game is fun again, and I travel / level faster.

        Why is this wrong?

        • I just hit level 40 and wanted to get a mount. That would take about 90 gold, and I figured it would take me about a month to save that much. (I'm a casual player, maybe 5 hours a week). For $12 I got all the money I needed, in an hour.

          New the game is fun again, and I travel / level faster.

          Why is this wrong?

          Which brings us full-circle to the point made by the GP - the game is setup in such a way that players are forced into long hours of tedious tasks in order to get enough goods/gold/equipment/levels be ab

        • Because you're supposed to have to make hard choices. I knew I wanted my mount the instant I hit 40. Therefore I saved my gold as I levelled. You didn't and as such you should have just suffered. Instead you contributed to the inflation of the in-game economy. Personally I hope they finally start banning the accounts of people who buy gold, not just the farmers/sellers.

  • preferred solution (Score:5, Interesting)

    by aapold (753705) on Thursday July 27 2006, @02:41PM (#15793831) Homepage Journal
    Blizzard has probably banned more players than the peak populations of most other games... What would make more sense is just to transfer the characters over to a "banned" server. Let that economy fight itself out... Just need a good name for it....
  • In FFXI land not all the 2000 accounts where banned (most got 3 day suspensions) and most where not for RMT. The users in question had been using flee/pos/warp hacks and or engaged in MPK or other offences. A large portion of them happened to be endgame players who where using cheats to steal or easily beat high level monsters instead of playing fairly. SE is now flagging accounts for punishment if they are caught cheating and depending on the level of your offence you could be subject of a ban.

  • Gold farming exploits (Score:5, Interesting)

    by wadevondoom (961477) on Thursday July 27 2006, @07:36PM (#15795797)

    I used t play WoW. I am quite bored with it now but I played for about a year. I played through to lv 60 twice and enjoyed everything but the buying and selling. Epic items cost way too much for me (a hardcore gamer to my wife but actually a casual gamer to the Slashdot crowd no doubt) to get many.

    In the last two months of playing I made a discovery that just about blew my mind. For those not in the 'know', Blizzard allows a certain amount of mods to be used in game. These do various things such as map enhancements, custom button grouping etc. Now one of these is called auctioneer [auctioneeraddon.com]. What it does is make you money. Not just a little bit but a whole CRAP PILE of money. This mod will NOT get you banned from WoW that I know of either.

    How does it work, you ask? Glad you asked. Its very simple. If you have ever heard the phrase "Buy low. Sell High" well no truer words have ever been spoken about this addon. It scans the auction house for items that are being sold under the mean asking price. So if the average price of a stack of gold bars is 2g (for instance) and there are 5 auctions with bids below it will flag them and allow you to bid on them. You can say show me items with a bid

    I struggled with the morale of using such a tool, but as my subscription was running out I wanted to see how much gold I could make in my last 30 days. I tried to do this on paper for a few weeks early in my WoW career but it is a tiresome process. I had about 6G in the bank. I would run this once a day and by the second to last day I had over 1000g in the bank! Broken or what? It was then I realised I would never play again. What is the point? If its that easy and I can buy whatever I want then there certainly is little use in playing.

    Oh well. y other $0.02 is that I don't think I can support Blizzard too much any more. I loved Diablo2 and WoW for a time but I can't stand it when companies treat their customers like criminals. Close the loops you idiots! Don't blame the guys that spent possibly $100(s) on your @$%^ games. Its THEIR (read: Blizzard's) fault.

    End rant.

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