PS3's Smart Back-Compat, PS4 Doesn't Play Discs 164
Good news for Sony fans looking forward to the PS3. Eurogamer reports that the system will feature backwards compatibility with memory cards as well as games. From the article: "An update to Sony's PlayStation 3 website has revealed that you will be able to use older PlayStation memory cards with PlayStation 3 - providing you buy an adapter. An entry in the official PS3 FAQ states: 'To use saved data on a PlayStation 2 memory card, you must copy the data onto a virtual memory card within the hard disk.'" Microsoft could have really used something like that for the Xbox/360 switchover. Relatedly, Sony is looking ahead ... way ahead, even to their next console. Wired has a piece looking at the future of downloads in the games industry. From that article: "Microsoft is releasing an HD-DVD drive for the Xbox 360. Both companies are even touting the ability of these new discs to play movies in even higher hi-def. That struggle, however, is ultimately meaningless. 'I'd be amazed if the PlayStation 4 has a physical disc drive,' [Sony's Phil] Harrison says."
Now if only they would cut the price (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Now if only they would cut the price (Score:4, Insightful)
plus have the ability to download and play older games, so I don't see why Nintendo should bother looking. In fact, you don't need an adapter to use the GC memory cards (like you do PS2 memory cards apparently), so this appears to be more of Sony looking at Nintendo than vice versa.
Re:Now if only they would cut the price (Score:2)
Now if only somone could invent a device to allow me to transfer my saved games from my brothers PS2 to the Wii...
Re:Now if only they would cut the price (Score:1)
Re:Now if only they would cut the price (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Now if only they would cut the price (Score:2)
It's not exactly cost-free for Sony to be developing a software system capable of 100% emulation of the PS2 hardware on the PS3, you know. That's a job that's going to cost millions of dollars in development costs, assuming it's even possible at all.
Sony may publicly be hoping to be able to take the PS2-on-a-chip out of the PS3 case at some future time, but personally I don't believe the prognosis is all that
Re:Now if only they would cut the price (Score:2)
Eh yeah because the gamecube was compatible (Score:1, Troll)
Hate Sony all you want but they are the only console maker to really make their next generation console capable of playing previous generations. Granted it is far fewer generations and they didn't have a media shift but still.
I think this time it is definitly Nintendo who is the one doing the
Re:Eh yeah because the gamecube was compatible (Score:1, Insightful)
-except for Atari, and Nintendo's Gameboys, and Sega Genesis powerconverter...
Re:Eh yeah because the gamecube was compatible (Score:2)
So you can look at it this way too: both Sony and Nintendo have opted for full backwards compatibility in each generation of their home consoles that utilize CD/DVD technology.
Re:Eh yeah because the gamecube was compatible (Score:1)
As far as Consoles go; Atari [wikipedia.org], Did it first.
Re:Eh yeah because the gamecube was compatible (Score:2)
Well, the Intellivision was backwards-compatible with Atari VCS games first, via an add-on unit. So were the Colecovision and Atari 5200. The 7800 may have been the first console to support a previous-generation console's cartridge library right out of the box -- a feature that up until this generation has only been duplicated by the Gameboys Color and Advance, PlayStation 2, and the Nintendo DS.
Re:Eh yeah because the gamecube was compatible (Score:2)
All of those add-ons (for the Intellivision, the Colecovision, and the 5200) were literally the Atari 2600 hardware (or a copy of it) in a box that used the power input and video output of the console they connected to. AFAIK all of them even had seperate joystick ports, so you had to have 2600 joysticks too, in addition to the ones for the main console (although with the Colecovision you could swap over the Cole
Re:Eh yeah because the gamecube was compatible (Score:2)
Note that the Sega Genesis contained a Z80 chip for the purposes of a) doing sound processing for Genesis games, and b) providing backwards compatibility for Sega Master System games, much like the PS2 contains a PS1-onna-chip. You required a physical adaptor to take the Master System carts/cards, but it did nothing but the physical conversion.
Re:Eh yeah because the gamecube was compatible (Score:2)
Re:Eh yeah because the gamecube was compatible (Score:2)
Hate Sony all you want but they are the only console maker to really make their next generation console capable of playing previous generations. Granted it is far fewer generations and they didn't have a media shift but still. "
I either have the previous generations or don't give a shit. I'm by
Retail support (Score:2)
But what's this going to do for retail support? EB, Gamestop, Best Buy, WalMart, etc. They make nothing on consoles, and make their money on the games. Just like the Console manufacturers themselves often do. What's the incentive for retailers to carry a product they make no money on, that gives them no f
Re:Retail support (Score:2, Insightful)
None whatsoever. So the manufacturers will have to give them higher margins.
Re:Retail support (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm with you (Score:2)
Theres no way I'm going to move to a primarly online based subscription service.
Re:I'm with you (Score:2)
Re:I'm with you (Score:5, Interesting)
I use the internet, the internet, the internet and the internet.
And she can do a lot of things you can't. Namely, look up a phone number in a power failure. USE her phone in a power failure. Read the news while sitting on the crapper or in the subway.
More importantly, she knows to diversify her information sources. You rely on one data path. That data path goes down, for any reason, and you're officially screwed.
Those of us who have been around long enough - even those of us who are just young enough to not really remember the days before the internet - all know the benefits of this data diversification. We also know the benefits of tangible goods vs. virtual goods, because we've all experienced the headaches that come from "losing" your virtual goods - even though we may still have the media that may contain them.
You're underestimating the number of people who would just never buy a console that didn't support physical media. I wouldn't, the guy you're replying to wouldn't and the guy he's replying to wouldn't. There are a lot of us out there. Add in the fact that there will probably always be at least one competitor willing to shuck the current convention and provide what the other systems lack, and I doubt any console will ever succeed without physical media support. I'm serious. Even if we're talking DS-size (or smaller) memory chips... there has to be something you can hold in your hand that contains the game on it, separate from the game console. Something you can buy in a store, trade with friends, borrow, collect, re-sell, back up or whatever. That's just for starters. I'm sure there are people who, like you, are perfectly willing to trust the internet and their connected consoles for all their gaming needs, but the fact that even a number of people here on tech-centric
(It can be *part* of a larger successful strategy, but it is not a strategy unto itself. Games have to be available on physical media, end of story.)
Re:I'm with you (Score:2)
Power outages tend to last until after whatever weather condition caused them has passed. In much of the country, a blizzard lasts more than a few hours, as does a hurricane. A tornado ten miles away can take your power out for a few hours. A flood takes the power out for a few hours.
Re:I'm with you (Score:2)
Cell phones also have days of stand-by time. In power outage you probably don't need to be using your phone constantly and a laptop is available when you need it, for as long as you need it. The difference is during a power outage, I can go buy a paper, I don't restrict myself to a paper when I have other options.
I agree (Score:2)
I agree. If it's supercheap, I could possibly live with it. I'd pay a few bucks for Super Mario Bros on the Wii, for example. But I would never buy a game for 20 bucks or more if I couldn't burn it to a CD myself. I don't want to pay 50 bucks for a new PS4 game which then gets "attached" to my console. The reason is simple:
I own a VCS 2600. I still play it from time to time. All my old games still work. If it breaks, I buy another 2600 from eBay. I can go to a flea market and buy old 2600 games, even thoug
Uhm... (Score:2)
Uhm, isn't that even worse? Not only can't I sell those games or buy them from other gamers, this also means that once Microsoft stops their Online Service for the 360, I can't play those games anymore?
Do you think I'm stupid? I know I'm not buying the rights to the compiled code. I have ne
Re:Uhm... (Score:2)
Okay, if the game keeps working even if Microsoft kills Live, I guess the terms are somewhat acceptable if the games are cheap. However, I'm w
Re:Retail support (Score:2)
Re:Retail support (Score:1)
Re:Retail support (Score:5, Informative)
We don't lose money on any of the consoles (unless they go clearance at the end of the life cycle, or it's a failed console like the Jaguar for instance, but that's not an ordinary situation). But we also don't make money on consoles. We cary them for a simple reason. We make about $5 on the average new game. Not to mention accessory sales.
Re:Retail support (Score:2)
1) Home theater shops like Tweeter and Magnolia may be the *LAST* place that would want to carry low margin stuff like this. You can walk into one of these places, drop $4000 on one (1) speaker and be assured that it has 20-40% margin on it. They don't do volume there, they sell complete home theaters that cost their customers tens of thousands of dollars. Tweeter has opened up it's assortment in recent years,
Re:Retail support (Score:2)
Most people want to be able to go to a store and buy a thing. There are a signifigant number of people who won't buy these things if they're only available online. Probably more sagnifigant than the percentage of people that feel like you or I do.
If you're a subscriber, check my post history. I'm a big proponent of online delivery when it's done well, and it works for me. I know a lot of people don't agree, but I love Steam. I've
PS4? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:PS4? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:PS4? (Score:1)
Re:PS4? (Score:1)
Re:PS4? (Score:2)
Re:PS4? (Score:2)
Re:PS4? (Score:2)
Re:PS4? (Score:2)
I figure there are two categories of buyers:
1) must have first adopters
2) follow-on sales
If you fall into category 1, you are probably going to get one, provided that Sony even partially comes through (how many of this category own a Dreamcast?).
If you fall into category 2, then you aren't going to get a PS3 before next march or june. You might be more likely to get an X-Box 360 (they've been out for a while and are a
don't make the mistake (Score:2)
..of thinking the vast majority of the PS3's intended audience actually pay attention to things like E3, post to slashdot, or even GET obscure humor related to "gigantic crabs."
The videogame hardcore audience has essentially already made up it's mind, but it amounts to little more than a vocal minority. Most of those Sony is banking on to buy the Ps3 know little more than that they enjoyed the Ps1 and Ps2 so the Ps3 is likely a safe bet. Will the price give them pause? Maybe. But Price is almost never an
Re:don't make the mistake (Score:3, Interesting)
You're mixing up cause and effect. Though the hot product has sold for hundreds of dollars in previous years, the reason it was so expensive was because it was selling so well that it was
Re:don't make the mistake (Score:2)
You should also be wary of making the mistake of thinking that the vast majority of the PS3's intended audience is likely to buy any console at or near launch. The PS3 may indeed be a "hot item" this Christmas, but I consider that more likely to be due to hardware shortages than demand (much like the Xbox 360
MS Memory Card Support (Score:2, Informative)
Re:MS Memory Card Support (Score:2)
The smart way would have been to do this transfer through live. Upload from your old Xbox, download to your new 360.
Re:MS Memory Card Support (Score:2)
If Sony's got a foot left, they'll be shooting it. (Score:4, Interesting)
Considering the reaction to the PS3 thus far, I don't think it's safe to make ANY predictions about the PS4. There will almost definitely be one, yes, but who knows what Sony will have to do to make it successful?
Actually, scratch that - it's an idiotic idea. No longevity once Sony moves on to a new console, no physical ownership, no used games market to help make the hobby more affordable...and there's that fact that broadband still isn't widespread enough or fast enough to support the massive game downloads that this generation of consoles, let alone the next one, is going to demand.
Something tells me that, if Sony eliminates the disc drive, it'll be an even bigger blunder than anything they've done to date.
Re:If Sony's got a foot left, they'll be shooting (Score:2)
But I'm sure Phil is talking out of his butt. Or I hope so. I have no intention of relying on an internet connection to play games. Either to download or verify ownership. It would be nice to see manucaturers move away from disc-type media and back on to solid state RAM/ROM. Just for the sak
Re:If Sony's got a foot left, they'll be shooting (Score:2)
I take it you don't play any Valve games then, eh?
Re:If Sony's got a foot left, they'll be shooting (Score:2)
Still waiting...
Re:If Sony's got a foot left, they'll be shooting (Score:3, Insightful)
Worse for Valve? I'd like to play Episode I, but I've put off buying it, because I've got unpleasant memories of large downloads and inconveniently-timed, seemingly-pointless Steam updates. A
Re:If Sony's got a foot left, they'll be shooting (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:If Sony's got a foot left, they'll be shooting (Score:2, Informative)
It's annoying, almost (*almost*) on the same level as Bonsai Buddy.
Typical experience:
Me: Huh, haven't played CS:Source in a couple of days. I t
Re:If Sony's got a foot left, they'll be shooting (Score:2)
You know what the worst part is? I have a copy of Half-Life one (and TFC, etc.) that worked perfectly well on WONnet, but Valve hijacked it to force me to use Steam even though I never consented to that at the time of purchase!
Re:If Sony's got a foot left, they'll be shooting (Score:2)
I've got HL1 plus both expansions. Great games. I'd be pissed if they ever stopped working for any reason.
Re:If Sony's got a foot left, they'll be shooting (Score:2)
Well yeah, single player still works, but that does me a fat lot of good when my favorite parts are Team Fortress Classic and Day of Defeat! And it also doesn't help that if you install any patches, the first thing they do is "update" it to use Steam instead of WON.
Re:If Sony's got a foot left, they'll be shooting (Score:2)
It's just not worth it.
Re:If Sony's got a foot left, they'll be shooting (Score:2)
Not long ago he upgraded his computer and reinstalled it and assured me that everything was fine, but it still took a few minutes to get to it. Absolutely zero reason for me to own this. And the same amount of desire.
I've been tempted to own games that go online in the past. I've got WoW on
Re:If Sony's got a foot left, they'll be shooting (Score:4, Interesting)
They also could use something akin to Sony's MagicGate (tm) format, where the data is encrypted in the drive itself, except that the content is somehow tied to a TPM chip in the PS4. This would give them the advantage of a solid state memory design, combined with tying it to their platform and "securing" the data from piracy. I would be surprised if I'm the first to think of this.
The only reason, I think, that consoles moved to optical media was because of the density increase and price to produce. If solid state memory improves enough and is cheap enough I see no reason to think colsole manufacturers wouldn't jump back to making carts.
I just hope they throw in an add-on Optical Drive so we can play our PS1/2/3 games/movies on there as well.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:If Sony's got a foot left, they'll be shooting (Score:2)
And now for the disadvantages (Score:2)
It would also give them the disadvantage of people not buying it because they can't take their copy of Halo 3000 to a friend's place for a few matches. They can't sell their used gam
Title (Score:1)
Re:Title (Score:2)
Between high-speed internet connections and the ever-decreasing cost of high-capacity flash RAM, it's absolutely conceivable that "disks" won't be the primary *portable and removeable* storage medium in the not-too-distant future.
Man, that would be nice. Discs are a pain in the ass, and they aren't very durable. Of course, many of those problems could be solved if they simply put the disks into some k
Re:Title (Score:2)
Sony's big push in this console generation is that your 4-9GB DVD discs aren't sufficient anymore, you need to 25-50GB capacity of BluRay in order to experience gaming to its fullest.
Currently, a fair price for Flash RAM is around $24/GB. Assuming that the cost per gigabyte halves
You know they're getting really desperate.... (Score:5, Interesting)
This is hardly a major positive for the PS3, but they're trying desperately to dressing it up as one.
If you've got a memory card with game data on, then I'd say it's more than a little likely that you've also got a PS2. Why not just save yourself the effort (and additional cost) and run your old saved games on that?
PS2 consoles break (Score:3, Insightful)
Did you mean "you've also got a PS2", or did you mean "you've also got a working PS2"? Remember that Sony consoles tend to break down more often than Nintendo consoles, especially in the first twelve months after launch of a console.
Because I bought a PS3 to replace my broken PS2 (and to pl
Re:PS2 consoles break (Score:2)
I'm not claiming yours did not break, for I have to take you at your word that it did. I just think you might be being a little harsh on the hardware by projecting yours breaking onto other people and therefore seeing a trend that they "ten
Re:PS2 consoles break (Score:2)
My first two GameCubes can't read discs anymore. (But my original NES and SNES both still work with occational cartridge slot cleaning).
Why? That was a major point of concern (Score:2)
This was a major point of concern for me I had seen no information on, a very practical matter that every PS2 owner would care a lot more about than any squabble over Blu-Ray succeeding as a movie format. I guess you've forgotten the PS3 is pri
There has to be a better way. (Score:2)
My checking account hurts... :( (Score:1)
Bad math (Score:2)
What makes you think you'll not be able to transfer data to the $500 model?
No Discs... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:No Discs... (Score:2, Offtopic)
Re:No Discs... (Score:2)
"I'd be amazed if the PlayStation 4 has a physical disc drive." - Sony's Phil Harrison.
"I'd be amazed if the Phantom Console has a physical embodiment." - overheard.
Bill told him so (Score:2)
I guess that's the end of backwards compatibility. (Score:3, Interesting)
I think Sony should focus on making a cheaper console when it comes time to design the PS4. I think Nintendo will do quite well with the WII partly because it's the cheapest and partly because of the access to old games. Old games aren't as much fun as they were when we first got them but a lot of them still have many hours of fun left in them. Sony and Nintendo both seem to understand this, although this is the first time that Nintendo has offered anything like this. Sony knew backwards compat was important with the PS2. It's a damn shame MS missed the boat on this. I know the 360 is somewhat compat but I've heard everything from some games don't work at all to they all work great so I don't know who to believe. I have a lot of XBox games but they weren't all mainstream games that were uber popular so I've no idea if they will work. I never had a problem with any of my PS1 games in my PS2. Here's hoping the PS3 doesn't dissapoint in that area.
Re:I guess that's the end of backwards compatibili (Score:1)
Mod me off topic, but for some reason I read that as "I can understand Sony wanting to move to a dickless system."
And to keep this from being totally off topic... you mention that this is the first time Nintendo has offered any sort of backward compatibility. Maybe with consoles, but the new GameBoys have almost always been able to play old GameBoy titles. My GBA can play every single one of my old original GameBoy carts.
Re:I guess that's the end of backwards compatibili (Score:2)
My understanding is that the Wii will offer an external unit to provide GameCube compatibility. ... why couldn't a (theoretical) disk-less PS4 offer an add-on Optical Drive? (for backward compatibility or for viewing movies?)
Re:I guess that's the end of backwards compatibili (Score:2)
The only external connectivity is wireless connectivity which allows the Nintendo DS to be used with some games.
No disc drive..? (Score:1)
Re:No disc drive..? (Score:3, Informative)
Thanks Sony! (Score:5, Funny)
I guess I'll just hold on to my "plain old" DVD's and non-HD TV until then, or show patronage to another company's products/standards.
Ten years (Score:2)
However that still does not render Blu-Ray as a movie medium obsolete as if everything goes diskless you'll just be able to load your movies into storage - Blu-Ray is just a container.
Re:Ten years (Score:2)
That is the plan (Score:2)
I guess it does work that way anymore.
Re:That is the plan (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Ten years (Score:3, Insightful)
The PSone lasted ten years in the sense that they were still selling it (and are still selling it?) 10 years after the 1st Playstation became available and at the same time that the PS2 was also in stores. I'm sure that the PS2 err PStwo will still be selling 5 years from now in stores and that when the PS4 comes out, they will still be selling the PSthree.
The PS3 may be "futureproof
Re:Ten years (Score:2)
Not so sure... (Score:2)
I'm not sure about that, the PS2 is apparently still outselling the 360 month to month - even in the US, the 360's strongest market.
Good point about the PSOne selling well into the current model market, I think they are still selling it. I wonder if we will see a PSTwo in the same way.
Re:Not so sure... (Score:2)
the PS2 is apparently still outselling the 360 month to month
As the PS1 did to the PS2 for the first year or so. I imagine the PS2 will outsell the PS3 for a while too. It is a lot cheaper after all.
As more games get released for the next-gen systems, more people upgrade to HDTVs that show them off better, and developers get more comfortable with the new hardware, PS2 sales will decline, as the PS1's did. But given the price difference, it's entirely likely that PS2s will continue to sell in small num
Re:Ten years (Score:2)
As a consumer I am focused on what is practical and possible, not what a company wishes I would do.
Re:Thanks Sony! (Score:2)
You might as well stop buying regular DVD's.
After all, that Blu-Ray disk is just an improved version of this DVD, which is just a stop-gap device for a diskless content delivery system.
But if the PS4 has no disks... (Score:2)
PS4 codename... (Score:2)
Re:Backwords compatibility (Score:1)
Re:Backwords compatibility (Score:2)
Useful feature (Score:4, Insightful)
Lastly, the PS2 could slightly enhance graphics in PS1 games. If a simialr feature is offered for PS2 support it could be kind of nice to revisit some parts of older games.
Re:i've never much cared for backwards compatibili (Score:3, Interesting)
I would much rather have the one console that can play all my old stuff, than having 2-3 power strips, a heap of cables, consoles everywhere, a heap of switch-boxes, etc.
Maybe having electronics crap everywhere looks impressive to your nerd friends or something, but personally I think that a minimal amount of equipment in my living room to get the job done looks far less cluttered (and thus, better).