Is World of Warcraft More Than Just A Game? 339
walnutmon writes "Newsweek has published a three page article asking whether World of Warcraft is more than just a game. Though some spend their time in WoW grinding, others take a break from the monotony of gaming to interact with others from the community in a meaningful way. From the article: 'Generally, though, players of the game enjoy a form of community rarely seen in the real world; higher-level players go out of their way to tutor newbies and accompany them on quests. Deep friendships are forged. Relationships begin that flower into marriage, with Tauren brides and Undead grooms tying the knot in some virtual tavern in Thunder Bluff.' I guess the question is, does a game become more when people do more than play to win, or is this just an added feature?" Raph Koster has been of the opinion, for quite some time now, that all MMOGs are virtual worlds; it just so happens you can play a game inside many of them. What's your view on this? Are Massive games just another kind of game title, or are they something special?
Nothing (new) to see here (Score:5, Insightful)
WoW is more inclusive than D&D. (Score:2, Interesting)
Let's face it, D&D players are looked down upon by most other people. I'm sure we've all seen scenes in malls, at D&D shops, where a group of teenage jocks or punks start yelling at the customers and employees of such stores. They'll call them a variety of names, from "n
Re:WoW is more inclusive than D&D. (Score:5, Interesting)
1985 called, it wants its sterotype back. Seriously, this just isn't the case. My D&D group consists of three cops (one of whom is an officer, two are from very tough urban beats), a corrections officer, a tow truck driver and me. Vin Diesel is perfectly comfortable going on TV and proclaiming his love for D&D. There's been a mainstream D&D movie with mainstream actors (even though it sucked).
I'm sure we've all seen scenes in malls, at D&D shops, where a group of teenage jocks or punks start yelling at the customers and employees of such stores.
This is just ridiculous. I've never seen such a thing in my 25 years playing D&D. School kids bullying the geeky kids who played D&D? Sure, but not because they played D&D (some of the bullies played too at my school), but because they were weak and easy prey. Although if you live somewhere where a mall can support an RPG store (not just a GW store), you're already way ahead of the rest of the country.
WoW, on the other hand, has a far more widespread acceptance.
Accepted by who? I've never met an adult who played WoW who wasn't already a gamer. WoW gamers are looked down on by other "real" gamers (those who play face to face) as the true losers who have no lives and so have hours and hours to grind. You've got your stereotypes 100% backwards.
Re:WoW is more inclusive than D&D. (Score:3, Insightful)
2006 called (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:WoW is more inclusive than D&D. (Score:2)
And we know how normal things are THERE! *snikker*
Re:WoW is more inclusive than D&D. (Score:2)
You can see this illustrated clearly in how the rest of the country fell in line behind California's political picks, their average cultural values (Watch out for those wild and crazy heartland states and their wacky gay marriages), the way no one illegally downloads songs or movies (california says not to in front of most of their movie exports these days)
I'd keep typing, but I'm in texas and if I don't head east in the next couple minutes I'm
Re:WoW is more inclusive than D&D. (Score:2, Funny)
Re:WoW is more inclusive than D&D. (Score:3, Insightful)
If we are going to play the stereotype game, let me inject a thought here. When I meet someone who says "I play WoW" I immediatly lump them in the pile of "junkies, addicts, and freaks". Really, 40% of all WoW players are addicts, and addicts are inherently untrusty folks because their addiction over powers their reason.
Additionally, WoW reinforces the computer geek stereotype... people leading solitary lives, sheltered from the sun, staring at their monitors. Zero human contact; all lost in a fictional
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Some people have very short memories.
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MUDs (Score:2)
I think that any large enough, virtual world that actually functions (regardless of graphics/text or theme) will become a virtual community.
How much one loses him/her serf in this is up to the player, I've seen quite a few people lose themselves in a MUD.
No. (Score:5, Funny)
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Why would that be a problem?
Just another kind of game (Score:5, Funny)
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I've seen a lot of amateur porn. If mating is what humans do best, we're doomed.
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I used to play WoW. I don't think I was a casual player, but I wasn't heavily into it either. My GF also played, and in fact was the person who introduced me to it. We were part of a small guild, that later turned big (named "Morbo", after the Futurama character of the same name), and I got to know a few of my fellow players.
Nowhere did I see addiction. I don't just m
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Your friend was "addicted" to the free food, shelter, and entertainment you gave him. As long as he had all three, he didn't need a job ^.^
Yes, but.. (Score:3, Insightful)
I've had to institute a no-WoW rule for some gatherings, since it's simply too annoying for the small number of us who don't play WoW to be excluded from having conversations with these people who are theorhetically our friends because they don't talk about anything else for hours on end.
WoW seems cool, but seriously, try talking to your WoW friends about something other than WoW and see if you would still be their friend without it.
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I can't speak for the people playing WoW, but from EQ experience, yes they are. I still keep in touch with people who havn't played in years, went to clubs with them, had them stay at my place when they needed a place to crash. Shared pot and beer with them. Cheered and cried with them.
Sure, only talking to people over IMs or mail causes you to drift apart. So friends you don't see in game grow distant just like friends who move to another state or cou
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It's social. Demented and sad, but social.
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Critical Mass... My Mage fire spec has 5 talent points in critical mass... mmm... nerdly...
Is that the kind of thing you are trying to keep out of your party?
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Replace 'WoW' with 'work/bowling/school/stamp collecting/any other shared interest' and your sentence makes just as much sense. IF you meet people through a common interest, when those people gather that common interest is generally going to dominate the conversation. For example, I know several architects, and whenever they are in a group the dominate subje
Its just like a MUD (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Its just like a MUD (Score:5, Insightful)
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There was an equivalent story 12 years ago in one of the UK broadsheets. I got cash for it..
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She slaps you: "No you won't"
Her slap misses you.
Your slap misses her.
Her slap hits you.
Your slap misses her.
Woooouuh
Bar
The tables are covered in pints. Dim light shines over the attractive
female figures in the room. Enjoy your stay
Excuse me? (Score:5, Insightful)
Its pretty conceited to think that only WoW would have a 'community' feeling to it... I call BS, not because I think WoW or other online gaming communities deserve being called BS, but because the story is BS. There are literally hundreds, if not thousands of real world places and activities (not that slashdot readers or WoW players would know about real world) to find community experience, and develop relationships through a common interest.... fer christsakes, that is what the world did BEFORE the Internet....
All I can say is that it MUST be a slow news day... geez!
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Honestly, I have very few friends online, and have not met any friends through warcraft, but I beleive it happens, and there is no reason to think their friendship is any less meaningfull than any other friendship. There are several reasons for this...
1. If you meet someone through WoW, there is an astoundingly good chance that you happen to have something else in common, most likely many things. How is a bar, or a coffee shop, or a sporting eve
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I didn't say it was. I said it wasn't the same as a "real world" communication.
Are you saying that all real friends must only speak of topical real interests?
No, I didn't say that either.
Most importantly, you can not tell other people that their friendship is less valid.
Why not? But it's not like I was getting in anyone's face, it was a response to the remark quoted. If you like, it refers specifically to my personal experience, which is
yep its just a game (Score:3, Informative)
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THANK YOU. Glad to see some common sense arround here.
MMORPGS are crack to some people.. (Score:5, Insightful)
I got hooked on Shadowbane more than once in my college career. It's an mmorpg like wow where you just go around killing everyone pretty much (and you can knock down their cities too). It took a long time.. but eventually I had all the best gear for my character. Then I made a new character and got into the politics for the game. So eventually I ran a city.. then I ran a guild.. then I ran a whole entire alliance of guilds that comprised of half the server. Then I got burned out.. I must've played 14 hours a day at that point. I would go without food for hours until I was certain my alliance could function for 30 seconds without me.
So you'd think after all that I'd learn my lesson? No.
I went back into Shadowbane.. because it gave me a sense of accomplishment. Every day, I could find something new, kill someone new, find a new unique viable character build, etc. There is ALWAYS something new to do in an mmorpg. No matter what, you have NOT seen everything. I must've made over 40 max-level characters with the best possible gear. Granted, it only took about 20 hours of game play to get a character to max level once you were good at it - but still it was WAYY too much of a commitment. I began to think of 4-hour game-play blocks as expendable time. Now that I have an 8-5 job, I realize how ridiculous it is to just say "hey.. I can blow the next 4 hours helping a friend get XXX potion to make YYY item."
I'm glad I learned my lesson with just one mmorpg. I think I put multiple college degrees worth of effort into that game.
That game was seriously crack for me. When I was 'addicted' to it, I couldn't imagine my life without it. It depressed me to think of quitting that game.
So ya.. MMORPGs, imo, are more than just a game. WoW just happens to be about the gayest of mmorpgs one can get addicted to - but it still has all the addictive qualities of any mmorpg. If you can't beat it, DON'T PLAY IT (otherwise, you join it.)
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Is Second Life a game?
/. & Fark churn out the occ
It is a virtual world. It is massively multiplayer.
I don't think anyone would call it a game, yet it fosters the exact same type of community.
IMHO, if you throw enough people together (online or off), for long enough, you're going to get a community that helps* people out and the occassional marriage. Even sites like
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How exactly do you quantify that? Is there a repressed experience from WoW that you'd like to share with us?
You have some SERIOUS problems (Score:2)
This above sentence of yours, sire, implies that you have or will be having problems with MANY things in your life that include, but not limited to multiplayer gaming.
To name a few; your work environment, your fellow employees, the people you play golf with at weekends, your children, friends of your wife, your father, the cab driver, your local grocer, guy at th
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Snow Crash (Score:4, Interesting)
-Neal Stephenson
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The real cultprit: Depression (Score:4, Interesting)
There is never really an end to the world like there would be in a book, or a game. Therefore, those trying to escape find the perfect place to escape to; A place that never really ends.
This goes a long way in explaining the attitude when the servers would go down often ( do they still? ).
I'm not saying this is how it is for everyone, or it's the same level of escapism for everyone. Just that the majority of the addicts are depressed in one way or another, and this is their way to escape from it.
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There may be a certain type of gaming addict who fits
But Then So Are A Lot Of Things... (Score:2)
WoW a Community? Sure, kinda like Prison is. (Score:5, Insightful)
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However, there's something I don't like about the prison analogy. There's no doubt the game is habit-forming, but it is not like prison in some very important ways -- you stopped playing by choice, for example.
In fact the ways in which the WoW community is like a prison community are some of the reasons I like it. You come in contact with all kinds of people you would not have come into contact with in the outside world. It is a great equalizer - whether you are a doctor or j
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I'm on Malygos and have no idea what you're talking about. Which side was this on?
Also, what do you mean by "turned"? Accepted
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Since I've quit the raiding scene, Warcraft has been a lot more fun.
it's like real life.. (Score:5, Insightful)
What I think is ironic is that people play these games to escape the mundanity of everyday life; the boring, daily grind. And yet, a huge part of a lot of these games is just that, repetitive mundanity that's no different than the world already around us, save for the exotic window dressing and some fancy costumes.
Anyone who's been on second life for five minutes can see that... in a game with limitless possibilities and potential, what do you get? a distilled, amplified re-creation of our own superficial consumer culture.
WoW ihas a lot less community than most (Score:2, Interesting)
WoW has no community (Score:2)
That is very very sadly true. The crafting system is worthless, grouping causes such a significant drop in exp that most forego doing so and the chat system looks like something out of an early 90's game. Guilds are very volatile since players reach level 60 so quic
Sure - but it's nothing new (Score:5, Insightful)
It's somewhat amusing to think that computers and the internet somehow is creating new "stuff" that has never been before seen; when often all it does is increase accessibility.
Addicts have no future (Score:2, Insightful)
In 20-30 years those deep into crack like WoW will have no influence on the real world whatsoever. There are still real life tangible resources (energy for example) and living i
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Oh I have that experience.- before I laid off MMORPG crack pipe I wasted a fair share of my time on them . And not only in raiding vs scripted mobs when all yo
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Of course it's more than a game.. (Score:2, Funny)
A Full-On Society with Cultures and SubCultures (Score:5, Informative)
There's politics, currency, responsibilities, governments, charters, social contracts, friends going on outings, etc. IThey're nothing short of microcosms of societies that bring out different characters or enhance the characters of real life people.
An example: I'm an EQ addict. I belong to a "family guild" (a guild who doesn't want the focus of their organization to be raid "work" on a nightly basis) who is party of an alliance of "family guilds" whose joint efforts are to do "raiding guild" things. Consider it neighborhoods banding together for a common goal.
Recently, scandal arose when a full-on raiding guild engaged a target that belonged to the alliance. One of our alliance members, very angered, ensured that the target would be unkillable by the raiding guild force and thus brought severe shame on the alliance. Our member, after a "town hall meeting" in the forums, has chosen to disband from his guild and thus the alliance, while his guild decides what's to be done.
Furthermore, some are questioning the value of our raid leader and there is mumbling about asking him to step down.
Friends leave guilds. Guildies left behind are saddened. When a guild who enjoys its members witty banter and opinions disbands, people are actually sad.
People are social animals -- social meaning they require communication. These MMORPGS are 10% game, 90% communication. That's what sucks people in and that's why MMOs are closer to virtual political bodies than checkers and tic-tac-toe.
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Problem is exactly that those pointless activity suck people in -like drugs
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Problem is they are all waste of time - they are virtual politics and virtual communities. And while social and community aspects might be very real, said communities cannot accomplish nothing and are essentially meaningless. Who will remember uber guild XXX from game NNN who did "that first" , "owned" server or other such BS? -Really nobody in a few years .
While I basically agree with you, this is also true for about 90% of all leisure time activities. Who's going to remember the time you eagled the 9
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Aye. I got stuck into EQ just so I could talk to my wife once in a while.
Two L70 characters later, we're still talking. It helps. But she still won't rez me if she's not logged on & I do something stupid, like carrying on a nice long chat session with friends across the world while sitting in Harbinger's Spire when my invis pops.
Have several friends in various spots in the world (being in Australia it's nice to keep in touch).
a better question (Score:2)
But then, by this definition, Myst was a virtual world too.
The question makes no sense: "Is it more than a Game?"
Basically, ALMOST EVERYTHING in the real world can be framed as a game. Going to school and getting a degree is a "game", getting a job is a "game" - wearing the correct clothing to the prom is a "game". Driving a car: a game. Klondike, Tennis, Chess, Rubics Cubes, Programming, Reading, Singi
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Nothing to see here (Score:2)
It's new for games - but not for online community (Score:2)
It is no surprise at all that WOW (being an online communications mechanism AND a game) promotes human-to-human interactions in exactly the same way that communities that just happen not to be ga
Re:It's new for games - but not for online communi (Score:2)
Two Words (Score:2)
Whether that be WoW, Second Life or your friendly local grocery store. The fact that people meet and forge relationships on WoW is irrelevant. People are always trying to develop friendships with anyone. WoW, Second Life, MUDs, Myspace, Blogger,
BUCKS (Score:2)
It's also (and possibly most importantly) a BIG BUSINESS.
Barely A Game (Score:2)
Chess, Checkers, Magic: The Gathering, Morrowind, Dungeons & Dragons, Tetris, Zelda, Quake... all those are games. World of Warcraft is not a game. WoW might have a lot of members, but that does not make it a game.
A game allows players to make non-trivial choices that affect the outcome (positively or negatively) according to an established ruleset, and make progress towards a win or lose condition.
Every choice in World of Warcraft is trivial and there is no lose condition. All choices lead to
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A game allows players to make non-trivial choices that affect the outcome (positively or negatively) according to an established ruleset, and make progress towards a win or lose condition.
You seem to be describing a game of strategy. There are many games of luck which allow few if any non-trivial choices, and games of skill where the only strategy may be who you select as your opponent.
Games have a much broader definition that you give them credit for. Even some of your examples are questionable.
How do
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I'll concede my definition was narrow, not accounting for games of chance. Although I think my definition would include games of skill.
The second point, winning at D&D for example, is more complicated. It depends entirely on the ruleset you're given. If the ruleset, as defined by the GM, includes win scenarios, then it is possible to win at the game. At the very least everyone is aware that the game has lose scenarios, when your character dies or fails to accomplish a task, there can be significa
To some extent true (Score:2)
Well, I have a life outside of WoW. I have a job, a wife and two kids. I'm going to spend part of today in a probably nasty discussion with an outside vendor after a major fuckup this weekend. I'll go home and deal with my youngest who is having a major asthma incident r
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Exactly!
Go see how things are done with elementary scool age children. All games are rigged to that everyone wins. Every competition includes ribbons or certificates just for showing up. Little league sports don't include scorekeeping. Kids are so drowned in affirmat
Just games don't foster friendships? (Score:2)
If you think 'just games' never foster deep friendships.
However, other 'just games' seem to do pretty much the same. You could have poker buddies, bowling buddies, soccer buddies, chess buddies, darts buddies etc. etc. etc.
In none of those 'just games' (and sports), newbies are left entirely to their own devices. People help out newbies. And sometimes people get married.
You might as well say "Hey, this couple I know met AT WOR
Plague in the digital age.. (Score:3, Interesting)
I think that they should enforce laws, like in china where your account only lets you play 3-4 hours a night max. Even though I have heard of people there opening 2 accounts just so that they can get their full fix.
I feel sorry for anyone that starts playing this game. I used to be an avid video game player but have kinda steered myself away from games like this just because I know what the result is. Just like I have tried alcohol or pot , but like another
People that play this game for more than 2 hours a night are just gross and need help immediately. Take up yoga or meditation or anything. Anyone that does any single activity for 4-8 hours a day outside of work should be asking themselves, "what the hell am i thinking". WOW is a sickness, a plague in our digital society. I do security software development for a living and the only single activity I would consider concievably doing for 4-8 hours straight when i get off work, is writing some WOW worm using new exploit/security hole that would use their contacts list and corrupt their registry and give these people a night off. =) although it would be a futile attempt, cause you know they would spend the evening just reinstalling everything.
Honestly though, if you play this game, take a month off and see if you can go without it. If you can't then do yourself a favour delete all your contacts associated with this virtual world and remove the software from your computer (microwave the damn CD).
"Get a life, you only get one!". People in 3rd world countries would give anything to have the opportunities these people have. Instead you rot away in your basement playing shit like this just to make blizzard a profit hahaha.. That's the real joke, someone is making a profit off you rotting in your basement.
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So you like China's way of regulating what people do in their free time? So, if China is so good, why not move there? Hmm? Because you only like when you get your way totally. You are what people call a "busy body" - the type that run HOAs that measure the neighbors grass and charge people 3000$ when their driveway has a crack in it.
Be careful what you wish for. I think people like you spou
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After that I got sad about thinking of my mother, sitting at home watching "House" and "Oprah". Then I got sad thinking about my sister, cleaning her room. And people who make model planes, and people who write books, and people who go to college.
Think about people, sitting at home, alone in their houses, writing posts for slashdot...
But
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Preventing people from playing longer than x hours is not the problem. The real issue is people who cannot type /logout or willingly leave the computer. A casual player might end up being on for more than 3-4 hours because some of the longer missions, raids, quests, etc. are time-consuming. If t
How come social interaction online has to be? (Score:2, Insightful)
Dizase of Western Education System (Score:2, Insightful)
Because they want to be prove their values.
So in real world there was not enough wars to prove themselves, then they jumps virtual world. WoW was best of the best.
Ps:Please do not argue my english, I just learn that much by myself...
Weee! My story! (Score:3, Interesting)
One of my favorite things to do with my LVL54 mage was to go back to the lower level areas, and just help the people asking for it. It was my way of giving back to the community. Plus, there is a real ego boost (yeah... I know I sound like a giant nerd) from laying waste to groups of elites by yourself.
There was also some girl I met (according to her... at least) that was really cool, she helped me learn the game for no real reason, other than she was being helpfull, she also had a cool handle, Nemesys. It is fun to play these games, because other people see your accomplishments, and the time doesn't feel wasted. Uhh... for the people who get married on WoW, I think that is kind of weird (I woudln't agree to meet any chick I talked to on WoW, for some strong stereotypical reasons) but it does go to show that this game has real life implications.
Any game that has direct influence on your life, other than the time played, is more than a game, it is a virtual reality of sorts.
So how much do they pay? (Score:2)
Monotony of gaming? (Score:2)
I have never played it but when I always hear terms like "monotony" and "grinding" I don't think I will ever have a reason to try it.
I play Eve Online, there is so much stuff in the game and the universe is so big it will literally be years before I see it all.. if that. I am glad the game I play is fun and the people who enjoy it understand that a fun video game does not need to be built around monotony
Tragic (Score:2)
Now get off my lawn before I hit you with my basalt sword.
Castronova has a great book on these points (Score:2, Informative)
This is a surprise and something new then, IS it ? (Score:3, Interesting)
Golf clubs, gun owners associations, bridge clubs, local bingo people, curling enthusiast
almost EVERY single type of shit, and im not only talking about games, have caused people to form communities, for the last known 10000 years of history. And so it is going to be from now to eternity.
So whats there to wonder and amaze about communities being formed in games ? Internet, games over internet form a much more easy way to form communities than the examples i said in above paragraphs.
Yes (Score:2)
hello? (Score:2)
This isn't news to anyone that's been playing RPGs.
It's only news to the mass media because so many 'normals' are now getting involved/hooked.
The Internet is for Pr0n!!! (Score:2)
Mawiage (Score:2)
Do the laws governing interstate/international gambling that specify "where" a distributed transaction takes place, and under which laws, also govern "Internet marriage"? Can two men get married "in" Wow, but both physically in, say, Massachussets, and be legally bound by the vows? What if the players are a man and a woman, but they're both playing men?
Since America now sees a private, voluntary group of activists working to define the country's legal definitio
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Why do you care so much about gay marriage, Anonymous homophobe Coward? Looking for another excuse you can't get a date?
Ever since the first muds... (Score:3, Interesting)
I used to be on one of the first muds, only available via dialup. The dialup part added to the sense of community since most of us were local. We ended up meeting, having parties, and spent the better part of a decade together on and off.
A few marriages were created and destroyed, children created and destroyed. Really the same kind of thing that happens anywhere where youngish (15-25+ yr old) people unintentially spend a lot of time together.
The military forges similar long-term, deep relaitonships, as does school some office environments and even (to a lesser degree) summer camp.
The trick is spending long ammounts of time with the same group of people.
Having gone through that, I have questions as to how healthy such an environment is. In many cases you have young, under-developed people 13-16 interacting with emotionally immature older people(from 17 to 40!). I'm not sure this combination HAS to be "Bad", but looking back on years of it, I can say that it almost always is.
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Re:Snow Crash is a work of fiction (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm not saying that WoW==metaverse, but a) you're trying to dismiss it on grounds that were acknowledged by the original author and b) there's certain parallels that are actually pretty damn close. The structures and methods of interaction (eg. object trading, avatars walking through each other, online meeting places, etc) in WoW would be familiar to someone who read Snowcrash 13 years ago. That's pretty impressive given the state of online communications back then.
My brother-in-law (for want of a better term) doesn't know my phone number or email address, if he needs to reach me, he'll just send mail to my WoW character. It's not quite an alternative reality, but it can serve as an appoximation of a social setting.
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In Soviet Russia, WoW plays you.
Oh wait ...
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