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PS3's Lack of Rumble May Disappoint
Posted by
Zonk
on Tue Sep 26, 2006 10:44 AM
from the all-tilt-no-rumble dept.
from the all-tilt-no-rumble dept.
Immersion Corporation, who you may recall from their rumble-controller suit against Sony, has released a study. Engadget reports that (somewhat unsurprisingly), it indicates gamers will miss the rumble feature in PS3. The 'SIXAXIS' gamepads planned for the PS3 will only have the 'tilt' feature, as far as is known so far. From the article: "Not only does the (completely unbiased) poll report that 72% of the 1,075 respondents agree vibration feedback enhances their game experience, it goes on to note that 59% of those surveyed would prefer rumble on the PS3 controller, while only 8% care about motion / tilt sensing (sorry, Nintendo). As if these numbers didn't paint a clear enough picture of the message Immersion is trying to convey, two further questions spell it out even more explicitly: when asked if the lack of rumble capabilities would affect their buying decisions ... 5% said that it would definitely cause them not to buy a PS3 and 32% claimed that they were less likely to pick one up for this reason and this reason alone. " GameDaily has a further, more detailed exploration of the study.
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Why Can't Motion and Rumble Get Along? 113 comments
LifesBlood writes to mention coverage on GameDaily of a contentious controller-related issue. Kaz Hirai, SCEA's president, is claiming there is no rumble in the SIXAXIS controller because of prohibitive cost issues. President of Immersion Corporation Victor Veigas, on the other hand, disagrees. As the company holding the haptic controller rumble patent, he says that the technology could be included for a very reasonable price. From his statements: "If you remember, the day after they announced they were going to take vibration out of their controller I said that we'd be happy to work with them to solve the technical problem, and our engineers in less than a day had come up with three solutions; one is filtering and the other is processing and neither one is incrementally an increase in the cost. Both are using software to filter out the different commands--tilt vs. vibration--so that both can work side by side, and neither solution will add an increase to the cost of the system... We knew how to technically solve their problems and now we know how to do it without adding any incremental cost."
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Sony Defends Rumble Loss 145 comments
Eurogamer reports on comments from Sony defending the loss of rumble in the SIXAXIS controller. "'I think the caveat to that statement always has to be based on the fact that when we make a pad, we're making maybe 150, 200 million of them,' Harrison explains. 'So it has to be done at a price, and it has to be done at a volume that fits our production requirements. I think the decision that we've made to build in the SIXAXIS functionality, and Bluetooth wireless, and great battery life, and all the other functionality that comes with it, far outweighs the chatter that we're getting on vibration. And, it's incredibly light! Just pick it up!'"
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PS3 Finally Ready to Rumble? 99 comments
An anonymous reader writes "Sony has finally settled its longstanding legal dispute over infringement of Immersion Corporation's force feedback patents, which reportedly led to Sony's decision to remove rumble technology from the PS3 controller, by agreeing to pay Immersion at least $150.3 million in damages and royalties. The agreement presumably will result in rumble and perhaps other of Immersion's force-feedback technologies being incorporated in future Sony controllers. Microsoft previously settled a similar lawsuit brought by Immersion, but Sony hung on tenaciously despite complaints about its controller products and disappointing PS3 sales." There's no guarantee that the tech will show up in the Sixaxis controller, of course. After all, rumble is a 'last-gen' feature.
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I agree (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I agree (Score:4, Interesting)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I agree (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Sorry, couldn't resit.
Tilt detection sucks (Score:3, Interesting)
Oh How True (Score:2)
Press releases are boring. We go through literally hundreds of them a day, and for the most part, they're self-serving documents full of half-truths and inflated claims about products and services.
Reasoning? (Score:3, Interesting)
Seriously, they've fscked up every single aspect of the publicity, popularity and launch of the PS3 through trying to make this system do everything. They even said as much. And then they leave out the rumble.
Fucksakes.
Re:Reasoning? (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
That's why. (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm suspending judgement until it comes out, but I'm telling everyone I know -- I don't care if you buy a Wii at launch, but wait a month or two after the PS3 comes out before you buy one. Then you'll know how much games will actually cost, you'll have a better idea all around if the console is worth it at any price, and
Stop the Presses! (Score:5, Insightful)
Personally, I didn't find much value in the rumble packs in the PS2. I've always hated how they call it "Force Feedback" too, since it's no such thing. I usually leave them on, but it's not like having the controller vibrate in my hands has really enhanced the game experiance. I think the tilt sensors will be far more interesting, although most likely just used as an occasional novelty by game designers. I'm expecting fighting games where you can duck left and right by tilting the controller (which would be more natural than the shoulder buttons they use now) and lots of use in minigames.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Stop the Presses! (Score:4, Funny)
True, and I never saw how a vibrating controller could enhance immersion. Immersion is different reactions for different actions, with the rumble, if my character gets shot, my controller vibrates, if my car runs into a wall, my controller vibrates, if I summon an aeon, my controller vibrates, if something explodes nearby, my controller vibrates... heck, just make it "if something happens on screen, my controller vibrates", and put the controller to auto-vibrate all the time.
Parent
There are three types of lies... (Score:5, Interesting)
Considering that this survey was done by the same company that sued Sony over their rumble feature, I'm not at all surprised that the numbers for rumble are coming out high while the numbers for tilt sensors are coming out low.
That being said, I have heard a lot of disappointment being expressed over the PS3's lack of rumble. Most people don't seem to think the tilt sensors are a good replacement, and mostly think it's a gimmick ripped off from Nintendo. (Which would explain why the numbers are so low for the tilt sensor, while most people I've spoken with are very positive about the Wii-mote.) Yet I don't hear enough that I would consider the lack of rumble to be the feature that's going to kill the PS3. It seems to me the price tag, lack of games, and console shortages are all far more problematic.
If Immersion is trying to prove to Sony that they should have licensed the technology, well this (as in "suspect numbers") is the wrong way to go about it.
Re:There are three types of lies... (Score:5, Insightful)
I foolishly registered my slim-line PS2, so I now receive the Official US PlayStation Magazine. They ran a similar article this month.
They came to basically the same conclusion: most gamers would miss the rumble and that some would not buy the PS3 for that reason. This is the official magazine, endorsed by Sony. They're expecting gamers will miss the rumble and may not buy the PS3 because of it.
Yes, the Immersion study is probably biased, but I know that one of the many reasons I'm not getting the PS3 at launch is because they removed the rumble feature. I'm sure they'll add it back in, eventually, and I'd rather put off buying a PS3 until they do. (And HDTV comes down in price. And good games are released for it. And it costs less than $300. And...)
But, anyway, the results aren't as suspect as you'd think. The Official PlayStation Magazine agrees with them.
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
Interesting. The question is, where are these 32% of people who aren't going to purchase a PS3 just because of the rumble? You'd think a few would be popping up here and saying, "Yeah, that's me. I'm not going to purchase a PS3 just because of the rumble. The other factors like price and availability have nothing to do with it."
It just seems... odd.
I don't really like a rumble feature (Score:5, Insightful)
So, I for one will not miss rumble. Not for how it could be used, but for how it was too often misused.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:I don't really like a rumble feature (Score:5, Interesting)
1 Sony are lieing when they say that the rumble interfers with the gyroscopes (as they stated in E3 conference)- rumble has been removed purely because of the patent case with "these guys". 2 "These guys" are producing a case for why Sony should license the technology off them. 3 Despite the "I hate rumble" comments here - it is clearly unfair to say rumble is unwanted. It can truely add to games. But on current generation consoles the effect has never been truely "essential." Hence the sucess of the wavebird (which lacked rumble). 4Despite this Rumble is inherintly important for gyroscope control - Wario Ware Twisted for the GBA is probably the closest relative to what Sony are offering - being that you rotate a two handed controller. It uses rumble to create "tension" and "steps" in the virtual object you are rotating. This is so *very* important but so *very* hard to describe (for people like myself at least). It conveys the weight of the object brilliantly. For instance it really makes moving a heavy object (Planet Earth, Piano, Hammer) feel so different to controlling a light object (pin, pencil, leaf) - despite the fact you are moving the same controller in both cases. 5 Because of this, and this alone, it is great shame that the PS3 does not include rumble.
Parent
rumble with wireless controllers (Score:3, Insightful)
Um (Score:4, Insightful)
I get 20-30 hours of use out of a charge of batteries on them.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
And for some games, Rumble is required.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Mixed feelings (Score:2)
Some games definitly won't be the same without the Rumble feature. Project Zero for example. Most games don't really need it though. Mind you, most PS3 games don't need the tilt feature either. None of the games I played at TGS used it and some (Resistance) could have done with rumble.
It's not a big bother really. If the Rumble feature is needed to enhance the experience, then the game should just be made for the other 2 consoles.
all about immersion (Score:2)
on the other hand, with the GameCube I don't care much about the rumble. on SSB, for example, I have it turned off because it just doesn't add anything.
I expect rumble to be important for the Wii though since the
Some background please? (Score:3, Interesting)
Why is it that only Sony has stoped with the rumble packs?
Are N and MS paying for the right to use a motor in their controllers?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Completely Agree (Score:4, Insightful)
Best example I can think of is Halo. Firing weapons produces vibrations, and when you're in the warthog's gunner seat and taking advantage of the unlimited ammo on the backseat cannon, it can throw off your aim a little bit as your hand starts to go numb...
But, I think I speak for everyone when I say that I will miss the rumble pack, if only because of that whole Rez vibrator thing
Backward compatibility (Score:4, Insightful)
What that means is if you have an older game that you are used to playing with rumble, it will feel very different on your PS3 (without the rumble). In fact, since the system won't be designed for rumbling, I'm not sure if it can even developed by third parties (in the form of a new controller). It kind of takes away some of the allure of backward compatibility doesn't it?
Re: (Score:2)
You don't have a choice. (Score:2)
The article seems to be /.ed, but...
8% care about integrating motion/tilt sensing in a standard controller. The Wii requires you use its motion/tilt sensing technology in its controller. It's not a good idea to po
Tiger Woods (Score:2)
Players prefer tech they're familiar with? (Score:3, Insightful)
Why sorry Nintendo? (Score:2)
My favorite quote had to have been Sony saying they couldnt put the two in for technical reasons shortly before Nintendo said, "oh BTW these things will have rumble and a speaker too"
I bet it was technical... as in technically they wouldnt pay the money.
I call bias (Score:2)
(completely unbiased) poll
Is there such a thing?
ispell for aspell (Score:2)
Did you mean: disappoint
Spell-checking these article submissions is a very easy task for the editors compared to evaluating their content - why isn't it done?
Heheh (Score:2)
This survey funded from Immersion, the company whose rather iffy patent in my opinion (dual-actuator rumble first appeared in the Hard Drivin' arcade machine as I recall, so if anything Atari invented it then these guys patented it? please!).
I won't miss rumble, mainly because I hold a joypad for long portions of my working day and rumbling pads annoy the shit out of me 99% of the time. Few games have ever used them imaginatively (yes, I inclu
Kid a toy store. (Score:4, Insightful)
I would think a respectable company would take Sony aside in the courts and say "Look, if you put rumble in the PS3 and license with us, we'll back off this PS2 issue a bit." This just seems to me like a shady company trying to wring out Sony's pockets. They may be right, but in the interest of their public image, and in this case, the amount of licensing money they stand to lose by not being included in the PS3, they should be trying to compromise, not stealing Sony's wallet.
Wow these Immersion guys won't give up! (Score:3, Insightful)
While some claim it's a gimmick and or annoying, I feel that on a sublminal level it adds substantially to games with good feedback - infact it's one of those things you simply don't realise it was good until it's gone.
Anyone need only play Rallisport challenge 2 on the Xbox 1 to see it was very very well done in that game, combined with the good noises in the game it really did sound and feel like slipping around on either rocks, grass, dirt and so on - very very well done.
Also Halo made fairly good use of rumble too.
So for the record, I WANT rumble in the PS3 quite badly actually I'm really really sad to see it go.
That being said, these Immersion people are nothing sort of being a bunch of fucking assholes.
Not only do they have a patent on something which is INSIDE MOST WOMENS BEDSIDE DRAWERS and is as simple as a weighted motor,.... they have the nerve to enforce their bullshit patent on Sony.
To add insult to injury this is the SECOND time they've antagonised Sony / the media with bullshit comments like this.
They are essentially saying "nyah nyah nyah, we won!" trying to present themselves as innocents fighting for the gamers, when it's assholes like this who cause gamers problems in the first place.
They beat Sony and now are antagonising them with this "gee people will miss the rumble that SONY TOOK FROM YOU" that's what they are saying, in an effort to try to convince Sony to license their "technology"
This article is likely true in the fact that hey we will miss rumble, hey don't we all wish Sony would impliment it but the flaw is it comes from immersion, anyone else handling this study makes this a perfectly good article but being handled by Immersion? It's just antagonism and bullshit, fuck these assclowns, I really do wish they'd disapear.
Fingers crossed there IS rumble somehow on the PS3 because I certainly want it myself - we'll see what third party manufacturers will do.
Re: (Score:2)
turned out to be pretty incorrect. Sure it didn't outsell the other consoles, but the Xbox sure became a part of the gaming community and titles like Halo sure garnered a lot of mindshare. Gamers are willing to cough up for good technology (and whatever gives the best Madden experience), and the more i think about it, the more i realize that PS3 won't be an exception. People will buy it.
as for the controller itself.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Or, more to the point... (Score:2)
Hey Slashdot Editors! I know hunting for dupes takes up all your time, but how about occasionally NOT posting trash marketing pseudo-surveys as news stories?
Jolyon
Re: (Score:2)
Rob
That's the official explanation, but... (Score:2)
That was the official explanation, IIRC, but it seems pretty weak to me. Why would they remove a feature that has been used in all the consoles since the N64, to throw in a feature that seems so hastily dropped in, for no good reason, with no planned solid applications for it? With the Wii, the motion/position sensing is the center of the design for the whole system, it's the reason
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)