PS3 Controller Flimsy, Wii Controller Fun

With the advent of new input styles in the PS3 and Wii, many gamers are wondering what it will be like to actually play with the new controllers. Via Aeropause, an article on IGN says that the SIXAXIS controller is flimsy and poorly designed. Meanwhile, via Joystiq, an article on British site Entertainmentwise reports that the Wii isn't physically exhausting at all, as some people feared. After two hours of playtime, in fact, they loved the experience. From the article: "Some gamers have shown concern that the activity level required to play Wii games, especially the sporty titles, may be too high. There are concerns that you have to stand for long periods of time and use body actions such as swinging your arm above your head or at the side of your body. After playing non stop for two hours, did this happen to me? No. I'm not exactly Wonder woman in terms of fitness and I can assure you, as a regular player there was enough action to warrant perhaps making sure one has access to a tap before playing (you're going to want a drink if you play for as long as we did!) and possibly ensuring plenty of moving around space in your living room. The key to the Wii control is that even the most active title on the launch line up, Wii Sports, doesn't require you to make large body motions unless you want to."

Good Title

[Shihar (153932)]

I love whoever came up with the title for this topic. Excuse me while I get into my flame proof bunker and hide this war out.

Re:Good Title

[by Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, it's even better if you read the PS3 article. It gushes. The author is in love with his demo PS3. You get the impression that he wants to marry it. There's a small bit towards the end where he says that, unlike everything else, the controller didn't quite live up to his wildest fantasies. And Slashdot pounces.

I'll be honest, I'm a born-again Nintendo fanboy. I desperately want a Wii, and have no personal interest in a PS3. But what's with the anti-Sony smear campaign? How does that make sense?

Re:Good Title

[RoffleTheWaffle (916980)]

My guess is that the Slashdot smear campaign against Sony is about a 50-50 mix of Zonk's blatant Nintendo fanboyism and Sony's string of recent and highly publicized failures and oversights, starting with or perhaps preceding the XCP rootkit scandal last year. At this point in time, Sony isn't being viewed by many people in an especially positive light, and with good reason. Frankly, I'm not especially confident in Sony's offerings either, especially after that whole flaming battery thing, but I digress...

Even if from time to time it looks like the PS3 will barely make it out of the gate, it's impossible to judge a product that hasn't yet been released. (It could wind up either kicking or sucking huge amounts of ass, or some bizarre combination of ass kick-suckery in between.) Yet, it would seem that this post was crafted specifically to make the PS3 look bad by comparing it's controller - which was mentioned in TFA-1 as being awkward and uncomfortable, though still usable - to the Wii's controller, described in TFA-2 as being comfortable easy to use, even though the remainder of TFA-1 showed that not only did the writer approve of the PS3, he fucking loved it. (On a slightly unrelated note, why the fuck would I want to take any site devoted to gaming journalism seriously anyway, when it's been proven time and again that gaming journalism might as well be considered freelance fiction work?) In spite of all this, it'd seem that whoever posted this stuff almost hoped we'd just take their word for it instead of R'ing either TFA, and just take their own 'flimsy' inference as gospel. None of it makes sense, until you look at who posted it.

I'm in the same boat as you, though I have much fonder memories of Sega. I love Nintendo as much as the next guy, and they haven't pissed me off nearly as much as Sony has over the past year, but come the fuck on. This is like Anti-Sony propaganda now, and almost all of it is spouted from the pen - or should I say keyboard - of Zonk. It would've been fine enough to post the articles individually. A mostly glowing review of the PS3, and a nice piece on the Wii's controller, but no. He just had to roll them all into one speculative clusterfuck of bullshit and fail in a thinly veiled fit of fanboyism disguised as reporting. It's this kind of shit that makes Slashdot look less like a news site and more like a retarded fanclub.

Seeing as he can't do it himself, I think someone needs to put a cap on Zonk's shit, or at least give him a stern talking to about the virtues of shutting the fuck up until he has something intelligent to say.

Re:

[DrXym (126579)]

On the other hand, there has been a lot of speculation on whether the PS3's controller would be any good,

I expect that vast majority have expected the PS3 controller to behave virtually identically to the PS2 controller. About the only reported differences to the layout are the more trigger like L/R buttons, wider range & precision on the analogue controller and a Sony button instead of the analog button. The Sony button probably takes you back to the system menu.

The lack of rumble is the most pecu

Re:

[bunions (970377)]

> And Jon Katz, we loved ya.

That's a goddamn lie and you know it.

Wow, you're not kidding

[bunions (970377)]

That's actually pretty disgraceful.

Henceforth, along with the worthless whatever.com is, like slashdot, an OSDN company disclaimers, every time Zonk posts something game-related I'd like a Zonk is incapable of performing his function as a reasonably unbiased editor on this topic. And I think it's important that the disclaimer stays there when he dupes the article the next day too. At least that'd tell people something they might not know.

Re:

[heinousjay (683506)]

I can tell you've stopped. Your post proves it beautifully.

Re:

[ThePhilips (752041)]

I desperately want a Wii, and have no personal interest in a PS3.

Wii is targeted at different audience. There are some games not available for Wii - but available for PS2/3. As well as Xbox.

Wii is targeted at non-gamers. Bit like Nintendo DS is targeted at kids - but also has appeal to wider range of audience. Games there aren't just dumb - but funny. But on PS3 you get more serious gaming with serious titles. Compare e.g. PS3's "Gundam: Target In Sight" [ps3-gundam.net] v. Wii's "SD Gundam" [channel.or.jp]

I have quite a dilema

Smear campaign?

[jotaeleemeese (303437)]

Are we talking about the same company that tried to 0wn our computers by means of infecting them, that also put people at risk with their badly designed batteries and that releases a new version of firmware for the PSP every other week because they get annoyed that people may actually dare too use the device they bought to hve somecomputing fun?

The same company that sold MP3 players that did not play MP3 files?

Or maybe we aren't andI am getting confussed.

Maybe you are talkig about Zony, Soni, or Sonee.

Sorry

Re:Good Title

[badasscat (563442)]

Sure, it seems to satisfy his techno-fetish, but is it actually any fun?

It's fun if the games themselves are fun. That's not really entirely up to Sony.

What is up to Sony are things like the touch-sensitive power and eject buttons.

I will say that I played some Minna no Golf and some Gran Turismo on the PS3's Sony has set up in Ginza last week, and I was pretty blown away by the system. No, those two games aren't anything we haven't seen before (though they've never looked that good). But the system looked and felt extremely polished, and if these are first-gen games, then I can't wait to see what's coming down the road.

I left with the distinct impression that a lot of people bashing the PS3 simply don't know what the hell they're talking about. Maybe there aren't any games you like yet, but the PS3 itself is an extremely well-designed system that exists now, you can play it now, and that seems like it's got room to spare in the power department. That's pretty much all Sony can do.

As for the controller, it's very light. Otherwise, it feels just like the Dual Shock, a controller that even just a few years ago a lot of people were saying was the best game controller ever designed. I never really felt that way myself, but I never disliked the controller either... still, I don't get how you go from loving the Dual Shock to hating the Sixaxis. It's the same controller, just minus a few ounces. And that weight savings comes completely from the motors being removed; it's not like the plastic itself is even any different.

Let me just reiterate - the PS3 exists and is sitting there waiting to be played in Tokyo. So there's really no reason for any of these myths to be flying around at this point. If you can't play the system for yourself (I'm looking at you, Zonk), just listen to the people that have.

Re:

[buffer-overflowed (588867)]

Exactly. You're an idiot if you buy a PS3 on the strength of Sony's brand. Or banking on enough other idiots buying it to make yourself have an effective crystal ball.

After all, what matters is the games, and that is basically in no way up to Sony(unless you really, really love gran turismo. Or PS1/PS2 titles, in which case buy a PS2 and save yourself $120-$480). It's all up to us. Hence the console wars on the internets.

Pick your poison. We'll see how things turn out.

Pick your side. The one that say

Great News

[kmhebert (586931)]

Everyone I have talked to about Wii was concerned about the need to constantly move around in order to interact with the system. Frankly people seemed concerned that they would look "stupid". I can't wait to try these games, I believe that the Wii Remote and Nunchuck controllers will allow real 3D control over 3D environments for the very first time, it seems like it's going to be nonstop fun.

Re:Great News

[twistedsymphony (956982)]

I think the stupid stigma has long vanish for anyone who's ever played Dance Dance Revolution or Guitar Hero... best prime those friends who still have fears.

Re:

[Mayhem178 (920970)]

God forbid that people should have to get up off their fat asses and move around a bit.

Next thing you know, Richard Simmons and Tony Little will be endorsing the Wiimote.

Re:Great News

[AKAImBatman (238306)]

Frankly people seemed concerned that they would look "stupid"...

...all while bouncing around on a Dance Dance Revolution machine.

The double-standard of this "I'll look stupid" and "it's too much exercise" argument kills me. DDR was one of the most popular games in history (greatly improving PS2 & Dancepad sales), yet people worry about holding a remote control? The way I figure it, most couch warriors are used to holding remotes. There's not much on TV, so it's *flip* *flip* *flip*. Plenty of exercise for warming up to the Wii. ;)

The one part of the article that really stuck out at me, though, was the comment that "large motions is how you have fun". I don't know how many people here have played Laser Tag-type games, but the sweeps and motions you make with your weapon are quite different when you're relaxed and when you're pumped. When you're relaxed, your reaction time is extremely slow. You tend to use extremely fine movements in attempts to aim, and may even tilt your wrist quite a bit. Yet when you're pumped, you work the floor, dodging, sweeping, and rolling. Your arm is primarily used for targetting, and you gain quite a bit of precision because of it.

It's just a lot more fun to get up and exercise. It releases a lot of good hormones that make you enjoy yourself. Besides, there's nothing quite like professionally strapping on your gear, just to have the guy next to you asking, "Have you ever played this before?" Oh yeah, bring it on. :D

Re:

[CastrTroy (595695)]

Another thing. Have you ever watched someone play video games with a regular controller. Most people look pretty stupid. The simple answer is that you may look stupid if someone peers inside your living room window, and sees you playing on the Wii. However, nobody really cares how stupid they look to their friends when they are sitting around playing a game. Even in games that require tons of movement (DDR) most people aren't worried about how they look because every in the room is looking at the scree

Re:

[antifoidulus (807088)]

That is why you need to factor alcohol in the mix. Then people just stop caring. In fact, being able to play tennis drunk without getting the cops involved is the only reason I can even think to play wii sports(off topic rant but if it is so much like tennis why not actually play tennis? Unless you are drunk then see above)

Re:

[poot_rootbeer (188613)]

off topic rant but if it is so much like tennis why not actually play tennis?

Because
1) I live in a city of 8 million people, where actual tennis courts are usually unavailable, and
2) Because I suck at actual tennis. I spend more time chasing down and picking up errant balls than playing the game itself.

So this isn't a direct comparison?

[hal2814 (725639)]

This post is grabbing one review for one piece of hardware and comaring it to a completely different review of another piece of hardware? That's just silly. Somebody let me know when there are some side-by-side comparisons of both controllers actually comparing the featuresets and performance of each.

Re:

[Captain Splendid (673276)]

So what you're saying is you have a problem with an "apples and oranges"-type approach when discussing an apple and an orange?

Re:So this isn't a direct comparison?

[hal2814 (725639)]

But we're not looking at apples and oranges. They're both gaming controllers. They have an awful lot in common. A single review (or even two reviews that review the same metrics) would be a much better defense of the headline than the rather disjointed reviews they've used up here.

Re:So this isn't a direct comparison?

[hal2814 (725639)]

"So if you wanted to get a reveiw of cars, would you completely ignore any review by a site that only did a review of one of the cars you wanted?"

No, but automobile reviews contain actual measurable data more often than not. I can get actual metrics from one vehicle and compare it to the same metrics gathered elsewhere for another vehicle. I sure wouldn't go take one person's personal impressions of the car and put them up against one other person's personal impressions of another car, especially if one of the cars in question wasn't even the focal point of one of the reviews but merely a side commentary.

For the Slashdot editors to trot this crap out as some sort of legitimate comparison is deplorable.

Re:

[powerlord (28156)]

Nah, I just have a problem when the headline, and Zonk's blurb make it seem like a Grapefruit to Grapefruit comparison, instead of the Apple to Orange comparison it is.

Re:So this isn't a direct comparison?

[i kan reed (749298)]

I started to agree with you. Then I realized that these are games we're talking about. They should be fun. Well constructed controllers are great, but if it feels or seems wrong, then, in terms of what a game system needs, it is wrong. A feature for feature comparison will never tell you that.

More damning news

[UbuntuDupe (970646)]

I also heard that the SIXAXIS controller ... only uses three axes :-(

Re:

[UbuntuDupe (970646)]

I agree, that explanation does bite. The three rotational axes are about the same axes as the translational.

Yeah, and...

[ivan256 (17499)]

...PSP UMDs come flying out like throwing stars during normal gameplay all the time...

Forgive me if I'm a bit skeptical of a negative review of a Sony product before it is even released. I'll wait until I see a demo unit and judge for myself.

Re:Yeah, and...

[ciw42 (820892)]

They may not be available to the general public yet, but these guys have actually played with the respective controllers, so it's hardly speculation, and with production lead times being what they are, they'll have been playing with actual release revisions of the hardware and not just protoypes as those who made pretty much the same comments months ago were.

Granted, if it were your mate from down the pub telling you the same thing then you'd be quite right being sceptical, but I don't think so in this case.

Re:

[Chris Burke (6130)]

...PSP UMDs come flying out like throwing stars during normal gameplay all the time...

Forgive me if I'm a bit skeptical of a negative review of a Sony product before it is even released. I'll wait until I see a demo unit and judge for myself.

I know, man. Those fanbois will come up with anything based on zero knowledege at all.

For example I myself was skeptical about the "PSP disks shoot out like ninja stars". I'll tell you I was quite dissapointed and ended up deciding not to purchase a PSP when I discove

Funny how..

[Colourspace (563895)]

The UK is in the last of the major regions to get these consoles, yet both articles originate here. How odd.

whiiiiii!

[grapeape (137008)]

I can't wait, im actually one of the ones who liked the idea of the controller for the need to move around. My kids love their gamecube and the idea of combining their "entertainment" with more exercise could only be a good thing. They dont spend too much time on their current console but with winter coming gaming becomes much more of a time waster. I am so glad Nintendo decided to include Wii sports as a pack-in, it looks to be a good title and a fun party game. Who cares what you look like, i cant play a good game without dodging and leaning anyway so this just means I will be doing it for a purpose.

I wonder if the bad feedback of the ps3 controller continues, if it will spark a redesign? Its not like it hasnt happened before, the original dual shock came out years after the lauch of the original playstation if I remember correctly. I wouldnt mind seeing the "boomerang" controller they showed off early in the design. Is the flimy feel a real problem or is it simply the loss of heft from the rumble motors?

Lazy Gamers

[pembo13 (770295)]

Of all the things to be worried about in a console, getting some physical activity in (for the average person) should be the _least_ of ones concerns, and should instead be welcomed. Most should be able to come to grips with the fact that they likely don't get enough physical exercise as it is. I'm more worried about what the multiple purchases will do to my account than my arms. In the worst case scenario, think of it as a thermostat of sorts: when you spend too much time playing, you have feedback in the form of pain so you know its time to do something else.

Thank you, Zonk

[earbenT (992594)]

...as always, for your honest and responsible reporting of videogame news from a totally objective and unbiased point of view.

Of course it's going to be flimsy!

[Channard (693317)]

After all, half of the weight in the PS2 controller, the regular one, was down to the heavy vibration motors. The absence of these in any device would make it lighter than a device with the motors.

Re:

[twistedsymphony (956982)]

I would think that batteries would add that weight back...

Weight doesn't always contribute to making something feel high in quality. There's also...

• Tacktile feedback of buttons
• size of the split in the plastic shell
• consistancy of the split size in the plastic shell
• amount that the controller can flex in areas where it shouldn't
• Consistancy of linear feedback across the entire range of movements in the analog sticks and triggers
• noises the controller might make that it shouldn't (creeks when flexed, or

this is actually good

[sxpert (139117)]

it shows Nintendo acting for the good of the community,
I suspect playing th wii will get those overweight americans back in shape

Useless without pics

[szembek (948327)]

I would really like it if I could see an image of this controller. If you are like me here is an image of the ps3 controller:
http://www.engadget.com/media/2006/05/ps3-controll er-final.jpg [engadget.com]

Correct me if this is out of date, it looks like it's from May. Same style/feel of the PS2 dual shock.

Oh my

[MichailS (923773)]

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/738/738858p2.html [ign.com]

You carefully position the disc-based media of your choice against the PS3's front-loading drive slot and the magic fairies deep inside suck it up like a particularly enthusiastic four-quid whore.

o_Ô

2 hour Wii test...

[kabocox (199019)]

Um, I'm not sure that was a fair test for the Wii. I mean how many games do you only play for 2 hours? If they really wanted to fairly test it, then they should have had 4-5 hour testing times every weekday and then two 15-18 hour weekend sessions. Come on who only plays for 2 hours at a time? During school, I'd play video games from 4:00-9:00 thats about 5 hours with about 30 min for dinner somewhere in there and homework during the hour of 9:00-10:00 during Star Trek.

As an adult, I don't play nearly as much. I get home around 5:30-6:00 and it takes 30 min to an 1 hour to fix dinner and eat. So say 6:00-10:00 or 6:00-11:00 is left for video game time. That's 4-5 hours. I've been drooling over the Wii, but will I kill over after getting it and Zelda or Mario?

On a side note, if I don't die from over excerise, I might get fit.

Wii controller fun

[Trogre (513942)]

PS3 controller functional.

It seems the Wii controller is still having problems working in a room with sunlight [warcry.com], or fluorescent [ign.com] or halogen [digg.com] lighting.

I think I'd rather have a controller that worked properly and could be change if desired.

Wii controller not as good as the hype either

[grumbel (592662)]

Reading this little review [2old2play.com] of the Wii and its games shows that the Wiimote isn't without fault either, especially when it comes to games that only got adopted to the Wii and not written from scratch and yes, that includes Zelda.

It however doesn't stop with this, its not just a problem with badly adopted games (very bad sign for multi-platform titles and thus third party support), but there is also another "problem" with the Wiimote that seems to have been largly unnoticed. Unlike early rumors have indicated the Wiimote isn't a true 3D device that can detect its position in space, instead it can only detect relative motion and tilt, just like the PS3 controller, the only different is that the Wiimote has a lightgun-like sensor that allows aiming at the TV/sensorbar. This pretty much destroys a lot of game ideas, like for example everyones favorite, the realistic sword fighting. Sure, there can still be sword games, but it won't be a 1:1 mapping from Wiimote to sword. Red Steel for example is even after the cleanup limited to basically 8 predefined sword moves.

That of course doesn't mean that the Wii will be a bad console, but after all the hype some people should better adjust their expectations to reality or they will have to deal with a huge disapointment.

I liked the PS3 Controller

[chrisd (1457)]

I got to try one out recently, it was light as hell, which I thought was a good thing, responsive too..

Re:

[Reapman (740286)]

Yeah, on other sites I do actually read some pro PS3 stories, but Slashdot's agenda doesn't allow for that. Most other sites are negative too most of the time, but at least they do throw the odd positive in. Me being the type to go against the flow is really wanting to get a PS3 more and more.

Re:

[by Anonymous Coward]

It's not that they pick negative PS3 stories... if you RTFA, you'll find that it's actually overwhelmingly positive about the PS3. Slashdot summaries just ignore the positive parts, and blow the negative bits out of proportion.

Re:

[DrXym (126579)]

The answer is yes Zonk does pick and choose stories and it's incredibly childish. A site like Kotaku.com is far better for gaming news which hasn't been tainted by the editor's hard-on for one particular console. Every platform gets praise and damnation as the site sees fit and there's enough to go around. Alternatively 1up.com has an excellent weekly video and radio cast where you get some very animated discussion from all view points.

Re:Bring out the 'zonked' tag - never said "flimsy

[cowscows (103644)]

Zonk is just upset because they canned their original "boomerang" shaped controller. He loved that thing.

Re:Bring out the 'zonked' tag - never said "flimsy

[DrXym (126579)]

It doesn't even say it's a final production controller either. From the sounds of it the machine and the controller were some late prototypes that Sony drones are dragging around and not necessarily indicative of the final product.

Attach the "Zonked" tag for such a blantant re-writing of article content.

Quite. See how far you get if you submit an article about alleged problems with the Wii and sunlight, or Wii consoles locking up.

Re:Bring out the 'zonked' tag - never said "flimsy

[tonywong (96839)]

I'd mod you down, but then no one would know why. If you had bothered to read the article until the end, here it is:

FTFA:

"Personally, we can't help but feel that the SIXAXIS (as it's now known) has been sadly neglected when viewed alongside the rest of the PS3. Compared to Microsoft's uber-comfortable Xbox 360 pad, the SIXAXIS feels cheap, plasticky, uncomfortable and disconcertingly light - almost as if it's going to fly out of your hands during those more extreme gaming moments.

More worrying still, the newly-designed lower L and R shoulder triggers feel more like they belong on an early controller prototype than the near-final model. Replicating the 360 pad, rather than being simple shoulder-mounted buttons, the triggers are now hinged horizontally along the controller, with pressure forcing them inward along the bottom - like triggers then, really. Trouble is, they're placed almost unnaturally low meaning we found ourselves operating them by jamming our fingers in between the hinges to apply pressure, rather than using the buttons themselves. What's more, the triggers are convex, with no grooves to keep your fingers in place - an issue further compounded by their smooth finish, offering no resistance against your finger tips. Invariably we found our digits slipping off with the triggers snapping back to their default position. Bah. Of course, the PS2's Dual Shock pad wasn't without its faults either but we still learned to live with it. It's just a shame that Sony hasn't used its resources to bring its controller up to next-gen standards along with its cutting-edge hardware."

Re:Zonk Articles Flimsy, Actual Journalism Fun

[k_187 (61692)]

if you're still working with early controller prototypes a month before launch, you've got problems.

Re:

[clu76 (620823)]

The Japanese weekly games magazine Famitsu did a survey of over 4000 attendees of the Tokyo Game Show:

Nintendo wasn't even present TGS.