Microsoft Explains the Lumines Live! Mess 57
1up has up a discussion with Microsoft's Greg Canessa, Group Manager for Xbox Live Arcade. There, he attempts to explain what's the deal with Lumines Live!. Specifically, why are they charging us an arm and a leg for a rerelease of an already well-sold portable title? "That's actually done by the developer. As a platform, we provide a list of available price tiers. And we work very closely, of course, with the developer. We provide suggestions and it is a consultation between the two companies, but ultimately it is up to the developer to set the price." I'm looking at you, Q!.
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I agree.. up to a point... (Score:3, Insightful)
So sure, Q! got greedy... but the gatekeepers let it happen. And the ultimate reflection is on the publisher and service provider. Microsoft.
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What are your options?
* Ask nicely for them to reduce the price.
* Tell them to go shove it.
* Accept their terms, hope someone buys it.
Saying Microsoft let it happen for setting the price on points is like saying that the US Government let gas prices get high because they print money.
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One of the things that constantly amuses me are the print articles comparing the cost of gasole in the late 70's to now, using inflation adjusted figures. Of course it isn't going to look like the cost of gas has risen much -- you essentially just performed a calculation designed to factor out the changes in gas price over time...
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Then look for the answer to this question: How has the mean value of 2,000 hours of labor in CPIs changed over the years?
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Well you get the picture...
(And are you saying that nobody complains that the US Government has let gas prices get too high?)
Re:I agree.. up to a point... (Score:4, Insightful)
MS does not -have- to put anything on XBLA that they don't want to. They could have said 'Sorry, no, that's bullshit' when the deal started and none of this would have happened.
The truth is, MS knew this was a sleazy way to sell the game. They wanted to see what would happen if they tried to sell something like this, and they found a scapegoat company to try it on.
So yeah, as well as those options you gave above, add:
* Make them sign a contract and THEN tell them how much they'll charge.
* Convince them to sell it for too much, and in a sleazy pay-for demo version, and watch what happens, in case it's a good way to do business in the future.
Re:I agree.. up to a point... (Score:5, Insightful)
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Exclusive my backside. The homebrew clone [pineight.com] was available on the Internet before the PSP was out in Europe. Commercially, perhaps.
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I also disagree with your contention that Microsoft is the publisher for Lumines Live. They only control the distribution medium. If a publisher has an exclusive deal with GameStop for some game, does that make GameStop the publisher? I think not. Microsoft isn't going to take as much heat as you'd thi
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Publishing is putting something on a distribution medium.
Content Providers (Score:2)
Oddly this is reminiscent of the UMD fiasco with Sony.
SCE provided the tools and ability to create movie UMDs without setting any standards like price, or special features.
Movie houses jumped on the format and offered crappy movies, without commentary, for an outrageous price.
Sony is going to try to relaunch the format, but they are also going to set standards for price-points and what has to be on the disk.
Likewise
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http://ce.seekingalpha.com/article/17895 [seekingalpha.com]
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plays with words. . . (Score:4, Insightful)
look at how he plays with the words, his answer to every one of those questions is "It's a complete game, you can buy more levels" I've played it already, and it is not the complete game. I could see it as making sense if they decided you get v and w game modes if you buy the base package, and if you buy the addon pack you get game modes x y and z. They actually give you multiplayer and one single player mode, then one level of the other modes, which on completion tell you to buy more if you want to continue playing.
Personally, I think that's absolutely wrong. They should say something more along the lines of "Congratulations! You've won! If you want additional challenges buy the next package!" For some reason, it seems better if you're told there is more to play if you want, not that you must buy more to finish the game. This is a problem in semantics, that is all. Q! comes off as greedy in this deal, and Microsoft comes off as ignorant, it truly is a pity. I was going to buy Lumines Live until I found out about this, hopefully our wallets will let Microsoft and Q! know that this is unacceptable.
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I can understand splitting up the game into a couple of chunks. IIRC one of the "rules" for selling an Arcade game on Xbox live is that it must be
While I really want to play this game, and I would be more then happy to pay $20 for this ti
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Yeah I agree. When I first saw Lumines on the PSP I really wanted the title but I wasn't about to buy a PSP just for it. when I heard it was coming to the XBLA I was excited because I already own an Xbox 360. The really dirty tactics here have made me avoid this title.
I can understand splitting up the game into a couple of chunks. IIRC one of the "rules" for selling an Arcade game on Xbox live is that
Stuff like this will get worse .... (Score:5, Insightful)
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6160388.html [gamespot.com]
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Happy Happy Joy Joy =) (Score:2, Insightful)
So, what you're saying is that we're supposed to think that everyone's out to make us (the consumers) happy and realize that Microsoft and the Developers are all really generous and caring or
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There's nothing there about the motivation of the developers except for the profit motive... I dunno where you're pulling the idea of try-to-make-the-consumer-happy bit from.
Yes, please.
It's very simple... buy|notbuy. As a consumer, you have that choice, I don't know what you're getting so upset about.
Phase 1: Don't Buy Till Price Drops (Score:2, Insightful)
Phase 3: Consumer Benefits, Developer Profits!!!
Yay economics 101!
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Lumines, schumines. The real Live mess is... (Score:2)
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There were also patches for Splinter Cell, WrestleMania 21, Unreal Championship, Stacked, and Rainbow Six 3.
Mind you, that's not very many patched titles considering the number of releases for the Xbox, but it does suggest that patching Xbox games was not verboten.
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Let me get this straight... (Score:5, Interesting)
If Microsoft is actively influence the developers and making more money when developers raise the prices and/or split software into multiple pieces, then yes, we are justified in blaming MS for being too greedy.
It looks to me like MS got caught with their hand in the cookie jar, and is now trying to find a scapegoat to pin the blame on.
so which is it? (Score:2)
Bullshit. It's still their marketplace. (Score:5, Insightful)
Let's look at it another way, Assume I now have those 4 stores. Store four is not doing well, they decide to drop their prices to half the price of the other stores. This is troubling because then everything becomes sales and in fighting. But again I run the mall, if the contract/lease says so (and you better believe Microsoft can do this), I can remove that store from my mall.
I'm sorry Microsoft, you own the marketplace. If you disagree you pull support. There's a lot of competition to even get ON the marketplace, and guess what. You run it so you decide who gets on. Pull support from Lumines, and give it to someone better. Stop allowing people to over charge for games on your service because it has ruined what was a giant boon for you.
Microsoft also charges companies for ever thing on the marketplace (whether it's a share of the profits or a flat rate for patches). I'm sure they are getting rich off the over price because how ever many units sold I'm sure they get a couple bucks. It benefits them to make us pay multiple times.
" You know about Arcade, but, you know, for Marketplace, we have over 1,500 pieces of content in Marketplace; we have over 70 million downloads. " Again we use weasel numbers. 70 Million DOWNLOADs. notice he doesn't meantion purchases. How many people download a demo? I'd be willing to put it in the 200K on the first week (Saint's row got 300K at record highs).
Microsoft realizes they don't have to be competetive any more. They can back anyone they want, just like they do with their OS business, because they are the only ones out. Sony has lost a huge amount of faith from consumers so what does Microsoft have to realize.
And realize not a single game has dropped in price on the Marketplace since it's been released. Why should they? There's not used games out there to compete with, there's no other way to get this game. They actually have a monopoly on it to the point you no longer can get it elsewhere. Why do you think people have been so anti download service consoles. Because of this exact situation, you'll no longer have an alternative then to pay the price Microsoft demands.
In a related news, I wrote microsoft talking about the fact that this is a horrible move. Guess what I got back. Instruction on how to connect my Xbox 360. I'm not even joking. Don't think this is the end, because Microsoft will continue to screw customers on the Xbox Live Marketplace until we say "enough", we've seen it with Windows, Office, and now they have pulled back their lips and shown what they have started on the console market.
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The thing that makes me mad and the reason I bring it back is my email had nothing to do with getting my system online, and that's the only response I ever got. I didn't expect a response even though they promised one. But giving a co
Re:Bullshit. It's still their marketplace. (Score:4, Insightful)
Microsoft owns the "store" not the "mall". Publisher says they will sell a game in their store for $x, this game will bring people into the store so they charge a premium for it. MS says no, we don't want to sell the game for that price, publisher says okay, we'll just take it elsewhere, any traffic associated with our game will now go elsewhere. MS says okay, you win, sell it at that price.... people whine that the store owner is being a jerk because they are selling it at what the publisher says.
Here is another example, Office Depot makes a whole profit of $5 per laptop that they sell, most profit comes from accessories. Are they the jerks because their laptops are still pricier than say, Future Shop? Well I guess they could sell it at a loss, the maker still makes all the profit and they lose shelving space, sales person time trying to sell it and all other costs associated with selling something in their store.
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Yes, poor helpless Microsoft -- totally at the mercy of the publishers who take advantage of their Live service.
Or, maybe what would really happen in that situation -- if Microsoft said "no" and the publisher said "too bad" -- the game would never be sold *anywhere*.
Or, most likely, if Microso
Zonk breathes a sigh of relief (Score:2)
Rob
Poor expectation management (Score:2)
Nobody reasonable is pissed off about Lumines being broken up into downloadable content packages. I think the general consensus all around is that selling the game in this way is an interesting and totally acceptable way of doing business. But the base package for Lumines sells for $15, which is a premium price, more than any other piece of content in the XBox Live arcade at this time. For a premium price, people expect a premium
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Also, when I buy something labelled "Full game", I don't expect it to tell me I have to pay extra to play
I just want 1/3rd of the game.. (Score:2)
Oh... what? I'm pretty sure everyone prefers MORE content in their games, rather than less. What the hell? I can see it now... "DUDE this is fucking SWEET I beat the game in 8 minutes! Man I own! There's only 3 levels but whatever, right? This shit is CRAZY!"