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Sony Defends Rumble Loss
Posted by
Zonk
on Thu Oct 26, 2006 12:40 PM
from the we-didn't-want-to-pay-the-money dept.
from the we-didn't-want-to-pay-the-money dept.
Eurogamer reports on comments from Sony defending the loss of rumble in the SIXAXIS controller. "'I think the caveat to that statement always has to be based on the fact that when we make a pad, we're making maybe 150, 200 million of them,' Harrison explains. 'So it has to be done at a price, and it has to be done at a volume that fits our production requirements. I think the decision that we've made to build in the SIXAXIS functionality, and Bluetooth wireless, and great battery life, and all the other functionality that comes with it, far outweighs the chatter that we're getting on vibration. And, it's incredibly light! Just pick it up!'"
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Sony's Harrison on Sony Arrogance 136 comments
Joystiq had the chance to exchange a few words with Sony's Phil Harrison at the UK Develop Conference. They asked him some hard questions about the crazy comments that have been coming out of the company since E3. From the article: "There's always going to be a risk when you are market leader for ten years that we start to lose perspective; and we have to make sure that we don't lose perspective. But I don't think we're arrogant, I think we have to recognize that we're in a highly competitive industry and that anything that we say will be eternally editorialized by professionals and consumers alike. So we're always in the spotlight." After the tape was off he snarked that he hadn't been asked very nice questions. Poor guy, having to answer questions that aren't 'How awesome is the PS3 going to be?'
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PS3's Lack of Rumble May Disappoint 201 comments
Immersion Corporation, who you may recall from their rumble-controller suit against Sony, has released a study. Engadget reports that (somewhat unsurprisingly), it indicates gamers will miss the rumble feature in PS3. The 'SIXAXIS' gamepads planned for the PS3 will only have the 'tilt' feature, as far as is known so far. From the article: "Not only does the (completely unbiased) poll report that 72% of the 1,075 respondents agree vibration feedback enhances their game experience, it goes on to note that 59% of those surveyed would prefer rumble on the PS3 controller, while only 8% care about motion / tilt sensing (sorry, Nintendo). As if these numbers didn't paint a clear enough picture of the message Immersion is trying to convey, two further questions spell it out even more explicitly: when asked if the lack of rumble capabilities would affect their buying decisions ... 5% said that it would definitely cause them not to buy a PS3 and 32% claimed that they were less likely to pick one up for this reason and this reason alone. " GameDaily has a further, more detailed exploration of the study.
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Why Can't Motion and Rumble Get Along? 113 comments
LifesBlood writes to mention coverage on GameDaily of a contentious controller-related issue. Kaz Hirai, SCEA's president, is claiming there is no rumble in the SIXAXIS controller because of prohibitive cost issues. President of Immersion Corporation Victor Veigas, on the other hand, disagrees. As the company holding the haptic controller rumble patent, he says that the technology could be included for a very reasonable price. From his statements: "If you remember, the day after they announced they were going to take vibration out of their controller I said that we'd be happy to work with them to solve the technical problem, and our engineers in less than a day had come up with three solutions; one is filtering and the other is processing and neither one is incrementally an increase in the cost. Both are using software to filter out the different commands--tilt vs. vibration--so that both can work side by side, and neither solution will add an increase to the cost of the system... We knew how to technically solve their problems and now we know how to do it without adding any incremental cost."
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PS3 Finally Ready to Rumble? 99 comments
An anonymous reader writes "Sony has finally settled its longstanding legal dispute over infringement of Immersion Corporation's force feedback patents, which reportedly led to Sony's decision to remove rumble technology from the PS3 controller, by agreeing to pay Immersion at least $150.3 million in damages and royalties. The agreement presumably will result in rumble and perhaps other of Immersion's force-feedback technologies being incorporated in future Sony controllers. Microsoft previously settled a similar lawsuit brought by Immersion, but Sony hung on tenaciously despite complaints about its controller products and disappointing PS3 sales." There's no guarantee that the tech will show up in the Sixaxis controller, of course. After all, rumble is a 'last-gen' feature.
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A Poor Tradeoff (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:A Poor Tradeoff (Score:5, Interesting)
Everything else Sony has done is boneheaded (going for overpriced design, trying to impose BluRay through the PS3, arrogant statements, E3 screwups, poor production management), but on the rumble patent, I do feel for them.
Parent
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I have to agree, the Rumble feature, while I feel is an important tool for gaming, would not attribute much to poor sales alone, if they happen. I would predict that it's all about price point, no matter how 'great' a system is. Just look at the NeoGeo.
Actually, I also believe it's n
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You are engaging in equivocation. There are six logically orthogonal dimensions or axes in the SIXAXIS system. The state it returns cannot be fully specified in three dimensions. Yes, it exists in a space with three spatial dimensions, so what? Its state is more than a position in those dimensions.
No, wrong. Pitch refers to rotation around the horizontal axis,
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That does actually make sense, I didn't realize that the controller supported translation and rotation (I was actually under the impression that transation wasn't recognized, and that it basically sensed tilt only).
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Let's assume that our object is a sphere 1 unit in radius, centered on the origin. Applying a force [0, 1, 0] (a unit vector along the Y axis) centered on the origin will cause the sphere to accelerate along the Y axis without turning. However, applying the same force at the edge of the sphere where it intersects th
Since when? (Score:5, Insightful)
Talk about desparate...
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Which is why the Xbox is the platform of choice if you're prone to do that. Both my controllers (one super-size original and one smaller S model) both get thrown regularly (and with mucho spite), and, well, you should see the other guys!
same ol same ol (Score:3, Funny)
Same reasons stated every time some one brings up why thy didn't include both "well, uhh, we can't! umm, money, and weight, umm, yah"
I still like the 150-200 MILLION units being made. because each PS3 realy needs 150-200 controllers.
Chatter? (Score:5, Insightful)
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I've said before that when a company or country gets to the 1.0e7 or 1.0e8 scale, the whole idea of "vote with your dollars" or even plain democracy just simply breaks down. Any negative news is chatter, compared to the background 95-99% of complacent sheeple.
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What "widespread customer outcry"? Doesn't the console need to, y'know, be RELEASED before there can be any "widespread customer outcry"?
A lot of the people who write about the PS3 on the Internet consider the lack of rumble to me a big minus, this is true. But a lot of the people who wrote about the movie "Snakes on a Plane" prior to its release were really positive, and that didn't seem to matter much.
We
That wasnt defending (Score:2)
Its kind of like buying a new fancy lexus with all the bells and whistles and that they took out power stearing. Has all the other fancy things to show off to your friend, but just not power stearing.
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Could be wrong though.
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Holy crap (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh, and Microsoft and Nintendo have rumble and great battery life. I'm not worried. What I might be compelled to worry about is randomly exploding controllers, but maybe that's why they expect everyone to have so many spares. Does make multiplayer seem a lot more interesting, though.
Re:Holy crap (Score:4, Funny)
...because, you know, after Nov. 19th, all units will have been sold, and they'll never need to make a PS3 ever again.
Parent
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I'll give you credit for one thing, not posting anonymously, other than that, your Sony fan selectiveness forgot to point out, he mentioned BOTH competitors, not only Nintendo. Are Sony fans really that scared abo
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Rumble not that important (Score:2, Insightful)
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Yeah, mark my words! (Score:3, Funny)
Rumble is over-rated (Score:2)
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Weight and design philosophy (Score:4, Interesting)
This is exactly what I'm concerned about, there is such a thing as having a controller that's "too light". After a point, it just feels flimsy and cheap, and becomes a constant reminder that it's a toy. The Dualshock controllers were quite good, just the right amount of weight, any lighter, and it begin to feel cheap. I do use Wavebird GCN controllers, but those are a little larger, giving them a bit more weight than the SIXAXIS will probably have, and I still wish (for all their greatness) they had a little more heft to them.
The PS3 is a $600 console, it's being marketted as a media entertainment center, and as something slightly more sophisticated than JUST a game console (supposedly), having a really light-weight controller is sort of going against their overarching image.
Which brings me to another point. What is Sony's overarching philosophy for this console? They don't seem to have a very unified idea in mind: art-deco looking console, utilitarian interface, lightweight controllers with motion sensors, with an Xtreme Gen Y sounding name... all these things really don't fit together to create a unified whole. If it has no unique feel in mind, then why should I buy it over the other guys' consoles? Nintendo spent YEARS developing a finely crafted gestalt that followed their unique philosophy on gaming, so much that the Wii almost has a living, breathing, personality. Microsoft a bit less so, but they've at least met the status quo in terms of having a unified feel (it's just not that original). But the PS3 just seems schizophrenic, it has no gestalit. It's as if each piece was designed completely independantly and the thing was just thrown together. Seriously, why should I get excited about something that was built with such an unprofessional looking attitude in design philosophy? While Joe Public may not be analyzing it like this, it comes across, subliminaly, as being unsure of itself and unable to deliver a really solid feel that will win people over.
Seems like death throes to me. (Score:2)
Translation (Score:2)
NATURE'S HARMONIC SIMULTANEOUS 6-DAY SIXAXIS (Score:2)
Sixaxis Creation Power,
then you are android dumb,
educated singularity stupid
and unworthy of existence -
with your death as positive.
Killing you is not immoral -
only unlawful by WiiMen.
Has everything to do with litigation (Score:2)
fwiw, Microsoft also infringed in the XBox controller, but chose
Defend, but successfully? (Score:4, Interesting)
When Sony was first asked why rumble was missing, they told us it was technically impossible/too difficult to do with the new tilt sensing. That wasn't infeasible, but highly disappointing. Then the lid was blown off of that.
Now Sony has changed their tune. It's a matter of price. The cost of $.01 over 150 million controllers is non-trivial. That seems feasible, why didn't you say that in the first place? Why does your controller cost $50 when you're saving us money? How is it that Nintendo's more advanced controller that features rumble, motion sensing, and even a speaker is $10 less than your controller until you start buy an addon which also features motion sensing? (Microsoft, you've got some explaining to do too)
The waffling about this doesn't alleviate the suspicion that Sony remove the rumble because of the lawsuit against them. We're not convinced you're trying to save us money when you're charging $500 to $600 for your system, in excess of $60 for games, and $50 for controllers. The original suspicion, that you're too arrogant and sour to suck it up and pay someone else for their proprietary technology, sadly fits the facts far better than anything you've told us yet. Given that the settlement for the lawsuit was around $100 million for years worth of controllers and games it doesn't strike me that the cost of working with Immersion is really so terrible a thing.
This isn't a defense, it's an excuse. I've never gotten the impression from any Sony representative that they are actually sad to see rumble go. The words of Sony aren't the sad, but necessary statements that game and hardware designers make as reality defeats cool concepts and ideas. They are distractions and red herrings from a ugliness Sony had hoped we wouldn't see.
Honesty will get you a lot farther than lies "chatter"ing through your teeth.
Give us functions we don't need instead of rumble. (Score:2)
Sony is trying to hype again. They claim they didn't take down Lik-sang, now they are trying
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Yes wireless is important but Blue tooth again isn't something you need to trade for rumble. 360 has wireless AND rumble. Wii has wireless, motion detection and rumble. See where this is going? Sony is missing a valuable piece. It might not be important but acting like it's a good thing they skipped rumbl
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That's exactly why one can be excited about the Wii and not the PS3's motion sensing. The whole concept is different.
The Wii offers a 'wand' that allows usage like every-day object. Golf clubs, tennis rackets, swords, guns, etc. You get more of a feeling that you are in the game.
The PS3 version allows... Uhh... Oh wait, they haven't really sai
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It's obvious how to hold the Wiimote to make it act like a golf club. But how to hold the sixaxis? This is just a dual-shock-shaped controller. Do I hold it by one of the 2 handles and hope I don't accidentally let it go, since I can't really get my hand all the way around it? Do I have to let go of it completely and then re-grip it in the middle? Do I hold it like normal, where the flexibility of the
not a big deal for me (Score:3, Insightful)
with enough customer grumbling, sony will eventually get rumbling.
(wow that was horrible :-P)
Easy Example: PCs and CounterStrike (Score:3, Insightful)
Take a look at gaming on the PC side and it is devoid of rumble and trust me when I say Logitech and Microsoft would like nothing better than to sell you something that "rumbles" especially a gamer thinks they need but it never took off. I don't think World of Warcraft needs rumble and if CounterStrike players don't notice it and The Sims can't use it effectively, just how "important" is rumble? These are some of the most played, highest selling games in the history of gaming running rings around some of the best console titles and yet none of them are eager to have rumble. I guess the PC side of gaming has been missing out on...something.
So what are these games that really need rumble? The only reason to keep rumble in would have been "it is cheap". With Immersion, there is really no surprise it is gone.
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If by "most next-gen controller designs", you mean "Sony's next-gen controller design", then I guess you're correct. However, both Microsoft and Nintendo are still doing rumble and wireless. Nintendo's even doing the whole "tilt" thing that Sony slapped into their controller at the last minute. So tell me agai
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Lack of Rumble is not a feature (Score:3, Insightful)
That's a load of BS.
Reading through the comments, it's obvious that there are many people that like it, and many people that don't. And you know what? They all know how to turn it off in the settings. Simple enough.
Now you can argue that it should be off by default, but most folks LIKE the feature. So the majority overrule your person
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On many games I will agree that the rumble feature is a tacked-on gimmick. Usually, it is a used to physically "punish" the player for receiving damage. However, one well-reviewed game that used rumble effectively as an integral gameplay feature was Rockstar's Table Tennis. There are no visual or audio cues to tell when you are aiming your shot out of bounds. It is done completely with the intensity of the rumble in the gamepad. This is an extremely intuitive use of the rumble feature that allows a minimal
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Axes. These pseudo-Latin plurals are really getting on my nerves (at least "axii" isn't quite as bad as "virii" where people, invent not one but two "i")