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Why Gaming Sucks On Linux
Posted by
Zonk
on Tue Oct 31, 2006 02:32 PM
from the penguins-without-joysticks dept.
from the penguins-without-joysticks dept.
lseltzer writes "Efforts have been made to improve the situation, but things have actually gotten worse for gaming on Linux rather than better. If you're a gamer you're just plain better off running Windows and dual-booting (or VMing) between the two operating systems than hoping your games will run in Cedega or some such product." From the article: "So where does all of this leave Linux gamers? One word: Windows. Yep, you read that right. If you're a gamer, do yourself a favor and just buy a copy of Windows and set up a dual-boot system. Why bother to torture yourself with the headaches presented by Linux gaming? Why should you continually not have the games you want to play? Why settle for half-assed solutions that might or might not run the games you crave so desperately?"
Related Stories
[+]
Linux: Why the World Is Not Ready For Linux 861 comments
eldavojohn writes "While many users reading Slashdot embrace Linux, ZDNet is running an article on why the rest of the world isn't ready. One note for Linux developers: 'Stop assuming that everyone using Linux (or who wants to use Linux) is a Linux expert.' While a lot of these topics have been brought up as both stories and comments on Slashdot, this article pretty much sums up why Vista could be absolutely terrible, and people would still believe there is no other option." From the article: "The one area of Linux ownership and use where it becomes apparent that there's an assumption that everyone who uses Linux is an expert is hardware support. Your average user doesn't have the time, the energy or the inclination to deal with uncertainty. Also, they usually only have the one PC to play with. Hardware just has to work. There's a very good reason why Microsoft spends a lot of time on hardware compatibility — it's what people want."
[+]
Linux: The Completely Fair Scheduler's Impact On Games 315 comments
eldavojohn writes "We've heard a bit about the completely fair scheduler previously, but now Kernel Trap looks at the implications this new scheduler has for 3D games in Linux. Linus Torvalds noted, 'I don't think any scheduler is perfect, and almost all of the time, the RightAnswer(tm) ends up being not one or the other, but somewhere in between. But at the same time, no technical decision is ever written in stone. It's all a balancing act. I've replaced the scheduler before, I'm 100% sure we'll replace it again. Schedulers are actually not at all that important in the end: they are a very very small detail in the kernel.' The posts that follow the brief article, reveal that Linus seems quite confident that he made the right choice in his decision to merge CFS with the Linux kernel. One thing's for certain, gaming on Linux can't suffer any more setbacks or it may be many years before we see FOSS games rival the commercial world."
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Because.... (Score:4, Funny)
Non-Karma Whoring Article on One Page (Score:2, Informative)
By Jim Lynch
Despite last week's article about running World of Warcraft on Linux with CodeWeavers' CrossOver, I can't help but feel a sense of despair when I think of gaming under Linux. It seems that over the last few years, with a few exceptions, things have gotten worse rather than better. Frankly, I've had it with gaming under Linux. It's not worth the time or the effort.
The Tragedy of Loki
You might remember that a while back a company named Loki Games tried to make a business o
Dual boot is okay, but can Windows read linux FS? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Dual boot is okay, but can Windows read linux F (Score:2)
Re:Dual boot is okay, but can Windows read linux F (Score:2)
Not THAT bad (Score:5, Informative)
Hmmm... (Score:2)
*sigh* Now I just wish I could take my own advice.
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It's not so great a suggestion if your goal is to play games.
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It's not so great a suggestion if your goal is to play games.[/blockquote]
Why do you seem to think these 2 things are mutually exclusive? My goal is to play games... on linux. Without having to reboot every time I want to and paying the microsoft tax just so I can (as well as paying the games companies... ) Long term, improving gaming on linux will help my primary goal of playing games...
Why not do what us Mac users do (Score:2)
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when the kids have grown and gone, maybe i'll return to trying to keep up with pc games but that's at least 15 year
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By that time, Vista will almost be ready to ship, so just wait a few more months.
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Considering I switched to Mac laptops to escape the horrors of getting Linux to work on random PC laptop hardware anyway...
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Strategy games and MMOs (Score:2)
What if you want to play MMORPGS? MMORPGs are predominantly a PC experience currently. Sure there is Final Fantasy on the Xbox 360 or PS2 and WoW on Mac but the majority of them are Windows only.
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If you want to play the kind of games that are the focus of the console market, that's a good idea; if you are into the kind of games that include some of the best selling PC games (like the Civ series, The Sims series, etc.), buying a console does you little good because console versions tend to lag far behind PC releases if they ever occur at all. And, of course, the console versions often lack capabilities that are in the PC versions, particularly as regards custo
OpenGL (Score:5, Interesting)
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* Sound on Linux is, well, "a debacle" comes to mind
* File I/O is different
* Input devices are handled differently
* Networking is ever so slightly different. (Go Winsock!
* If you thought DX capability flags are a nightmare, you need to spend more time with OGL vendor extensions
And I'm still waiting for a console actually using OGL. Where'd you get tha
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But in general, gaming sucks on Linux because the video card manufacturers have made it hard to get accelerated graphics working with the open standard, then on top of this is your very valid point a
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It isnt just possible, it has happened - frequently.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
as "the latest games".
Part of what destroyed Loki was they bit off more than they could chew, more than they could afford.
Each game published costs a given amount of money, typically anywhere from $10-50k for the privilege
to just simply see the code and port it. In some cases, even MORE than that (Just look at licensing
fees for the some of the hot engines out there- they can charge as much as a quarter mil...).
A
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How many times does it need to be said! (Score:3, Insightful)
OpenGL is close to what Direct3d offers, but Direct3d is offering a LOT more than OpenGL currently can. Even the latest additions to OpenGL do not bring it to what Direct3d 9.0, let alone 10.0 offer
Now if you want to include the fact that the DirectX suite has a tonne more functionality than just Direct3D, like DirectSound, DirectPlay, DirectInput, DirectDraw, there is no way in heck that OpenGL can compete with it. DirectX is exactly why developers have made the move to it (includin
OpenGL can't compare to COMPLETE DirectX packages (Score:4, Interesting)
God what a ramble.. But the unfortunate reality is that developing games for linux is a nightmare compared to windows. I want to ditch Microsoft as much as anybody. It is such a pain in the ass, the way they go out of their way, to make you go out of your way, just to get your pc to do what you want.. But what when I want to do is play a game with all the latest whiz bang features, there just isn't any other choice.
Parent
Re:OpenGL can't compare to COMPLETE DirectX packag (Score:3, Informative)
so, it sucks being able to play my favorite game- (Score:2)
Why Not Just Give Up?? (Score:2, Informative)
Getting worse? (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm not a linux gaming apologist. It sucks on Linux, I can't deny. I've not tried crossover, but I DO subscribe to Transgaming. I've only been able to get a couple of old games to run well enough to play after much tweaking. Lately I find it's easier, in fact, to get a CD crack and use regular-old-wine for most of the games I would play.
My examples are Fallout II and Planescape: Torment. Both reasonably old games. I was completely, and utterly unable to get either one to install under Cedega. Both installed, and after using CD cracks, played on regular Wine. Although it DID take considerable trying of different settings to hit on a configuration that was useable given my parameters: I wanted it to play in a Window, not take up the full screen. Both worked full-screen right off the bat.
I, personally, find the Cedega interface (point2play) to be nasty and difficult to use. But I admit they're trying very hard to make it easier -- the buit in updater/upgrader has always been nice, and the recent addition of a database of game settings for a variety of games is also nice -- although as usual none of the games *I* am interested in is on the list!
That's all I guess. I don't have any mystical insight... just my report as a user. I guess it might be interesting to some that Wine often works "better" than Cedega.
-Chris
Well, thanks slashdot (Score:5, Insightful)
It really drives me mad when slashdot refuses to post articles about the last 3 games we released, despite at least 30 or 40 people (that I know of) sending in messages about it, and then go criticise the state of Linux games. If they did their bit maybe our company would be in a better position to get the licenses for more games.
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Re:Well, thanks slashdot (Score:4, Insightful)
Maybe if Tux Games didn't charge $35 more [tuxgames.com] for Quake IV than Best Buy [bestbuy.com] does for the Windows version, they'd get more sales.
What do you mean by doing "their bit"? Should they keep their mouth shut about the problems they have running the games they want to play, yet shout from the rooftops when something actually IS released that supports Linux? Should they purchase games they don't want, to generate more sales for you, which is really the only thing that's going to entice developers to give your company licenses for more games.
Parent
Re:Well, thanks slashdot (Score:5, Informative)
> new functionality, but merely provides support for that game from LGP and the ability to install future
> updates, people would be more receptive.
Yessss and if you had RESEARCHED this properly you would understand. The update we sell is for the LOKI version so that to get support people dont have to pay and get a whole new game. We arent going to support the loki version because a) its not our game, we dont have the source, and b) its not our game. The update is sold so people get a supported game for LESS.
> Maybe if Tux Games didn't charge $35 more for Quake IV than Best Buy does for the Windows version, they'd
> get more sales.
We are in the UK, we have to pay a lot more for the games we buy. We actually make NO PROFIT on over half of the games we sell. We sell them at cost price.
> What do you mean by doing "their bit"? Should they keep their mouth shut about the problems they have
> running the games they want to play, yet shout from the rooftops when something actually IS released that
> supports Linux?
No but nor should they ignore any progress Linux gaming makes and criticise Linux gaming on a regular basis. Some of each would be nice.
> Should they purchase games they don't want, to generate more sales for you, which is really
> the only thing that's going to entice developers to give your company licenses for more games.
If slashdot reports on the games that are available, sales go up. Thats a fact of the slashdot effect. If we get more sales we can afford more licenses. That is the fact of licensing games. Companies that we license games from care about MONEY, and if we sell more games we license bigger games. I dont want ANYONE to buy games they dont want, but letting people know what is out there would allow people to know about them and buy them IF they want.
Parent
Why This Article is Missing Details. (Score:3, Informative)
LGP has stepped in to fill the void that Loki left. In fact, they've already outlasted Loki and still appear to be pushing on, and several of their games are excellent.
The author misses a few critical points when he looks at Linux games. First, many companies are porting in-house rather than having a third party do the work. Often, these binaries are downloadable from the companies website rather than shipping them on the CD (Quake 3, Neverwinter Nights, Darwinia, etc.). Also - Sometimes things take time. I wouldn't say that Linux gaming is "worse", but is perhaps "different" than it was when Loki was around. Companies are being cautious. Take a look at the slew of high-cost Activision games that Loki managed to score, only to run themselves into the ground. Think that there is perhaps a reason for their fall?
I don't believe that WINE is an appropriate alternative to having a dedicated Windows gaming system. But for those that casually game on Linux, or play more console games than Linux games, we can still find many excellent Linux games available without resorting to using WINE. I feel that the author's turn from discussing Loki ports to using WINE for gaming on Linux misses the bigger picture... Because it simply details his bad experience with using WINE for serious gaming. *NOT ONCE* was a modern native Linux game mentioned, and there are several games that are (in my opinion) MUCH BETTER than many of the Loki offerings. So, basically his gripe is about being unable to play Call of Duty on Linux. Good job on summing up how well a compatibility layer works instead of talking about real Linux games.
I must confess... It really pisses me off when I post announcements about legitimate Linux games from LGP and other companies, and Slashdot mods neglect to inform the community by rejecting the article, further perpetuating the cycle of "sucky Linux gaming" because people are ignorant of the games that *ARE* out there... Yet, crap like this ExtremeTech article manges to get front-page news. Good job mods!
That said, it's my understanding that LGP has a few AAA games coming up that will knock our socks off. Will they be ignored by the Slashdot crew like the last few great games were? I sure as hell hope not, because I'm sick of reading articles like this. IF YOU WANT MORE GAMES ON LINUX, STOP BEING LIKE THIS EXTREMETECH GUY AND BUY LINUX GAMES INSTEAD OF RESORTING TO WINE AND BITCHING ABOUT HOW IT DOESN'T WORK!
Since Loki's last game (Score:5, Informative)
Majesty Gold [tuxgames.com]
Return to Castle Wolfenstein [tuxgames.com]
Creatures Internet Edition [tuxgames.com]
Doom 3 [tuxgames.com]
Unreal Tournament 2003 [tuxgames.com]
Candy Cruncher [tuxgames.com]
Uplink [tuxgames.com]
Medal of Honor: Allied Assault [tuxgames.com]
Neverwinter Nights: Shadows of Undrentide [tuxgames.com]
Hyperspace Delivery Boy [tuxgames.com]
NingPo MahJong [tuxgames.com]
Soul Ride [tuxgames.com]
Savage: The Battle for Newerth [tuxgames.com]
Neverwinter Nights: Hordes of the Underdark [tuxgames.com]
Dominions II: The Ascension Wars [tuxgames.com]
Gorky 17 [tuxgames.com]
Software Tycoon [tuxgames.com]
Unreal Tournament 2004 [tuxgames.com]
Northland [tuxgames.com]
Postal 2: Share the Pain [tuxgames.com]
Darwinia [tuxgames.com]
Doom 3: Resurrection of Evil [tuxgames.com]
Robin Hood: The Legend of Sherwood [tuxgames.com]
X2: The Threat [tuxgames.com]
Quake IV [tuxgames.com]
Tribal Trouble [tuxgames.com]
Airline Tycoon Deluxe [tuxgames.com]
Cold War [tuxgames.com]
Dominions 3: The Awakening [tuxgames.com]
A lot of these games may be older, but not all of them, and most of them are top notch and FUN games. Go try some, and enjoy them! Natively, no need for emulators, or rebooting. Now if you can tell me that there is no way to play games on Linux, I think I'll have to just disagree.
Right now we are working on a number of deals for some games that will be far better than anything Loki managed to publish. Of course when we do, I am sure slashdot will ignore the release announcements and continue to report on the death of Linux gaming.
No games? (Score:5, Funny)
1. Extreme Man Page Reading
2. Obscure error puzzle palace
3. Mega Nmap Death Ping
4. Ksolitaire
5. sudo
6. IRC
7. Learning Emacs
I could go on and on!
Ok, let's close the sarcasm tag for now. This is not news. How did it get to the front page? It has been obvious for years.
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah - I think this is jsut an attempt to get a big argument going between zealots so that they can get some revenue for linking or something. Can't see much other reason for it.
Re:There are indies who support linux (Score:5, Insightful)
Gaming on Linux sucks because users need a reason to switch to Linux first to make it a viable platform. OSX is a success and it still sucks for gaming, why should Linux be any better? "Because it's free and open source and you should support open source" isn't really an answer...
Parent
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I do actually dual boot on my main gaming box. But I don't boot into Windows all that often, you might be s
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Has the Linux version of DEFCON actually been finished and released yet?
(Yes, I'm still waiting for the Mac release - so I can take proper advantage of the 'office' mode...
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I beleive this is starting to change, and to the detriment of the games producers.
Looking out there, there are quite a few FOSS games under development, and they also seem to fill each niche:
Vegastrike : Space sim
Wesnoth: Turn based strategy
Danger from the Deep: submarine sim
Racer: Car sim
etc.
I guess that sooner or later, all these projects will mature to the point they start displacing customers at the cheaper end of the games market, and big commercia
Re:Uh (Score:4, Interesting)
Are you stating that all linux users should be happy with their old games? I find it very worth while to have windows installed.
Parent
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YES. Name one non-console, non-MMO game that came out in the past, say 2-3 years, that is BOTH worth playing AND a PITA to run on Linux.
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Re:So where does all of this leave Linux gamers? (Score:5, Insightful)
any of the windows games on my Linux box and that
none (or nearly none) of the game makers would port
their games to Linux. It took me a long time to realize
what the problem was:
Simply put, the game makers can't keep up with the pace
of Linux. Let me try to explain what I mean. Take a look
for example at how many Linux distros there are out there:
something like 300 now or so based on distrowatch.org.
And some of those distros run on different hardware platforms
than just x86.
On top of that, not every Linux distro has the same versions
of the same libraries at the same time with the same patches
and compilation options.
There is no way that the proprietary software makers can
keep up. That's why Oracle only supports RedHat Linux and
only for certain versions. This is why Adobe's effort to
provide 1 flash plugin (version 9) for _all_ Linux distros
by doing some funky static compiling is at best misguided
and at worst massively brain damaged and stupid because it
won't work for any platform except for x86.
It's no wonder that the game makers prefer writing to windows:
It's not just that windows has 90% market share -- what kind of
profit oriented businessman would say: I could make 10% more
profit with a little bit more work --- but screw that, 90% is
good enough at most! And that's assuming they _could_ get massive
penetration when realistically all they could expect is at most
10% of the windows population.
The genius of Microsoft Windows is _not_ that it's ubiquitous.
The genius of Microsoft Windows is that it's stably obsolete ---
it's glacial in its pace of development. Five freakin' years of
the _same_ libraries! My God, that's hog heaven for proprietary
software makers!
Contrast that with the Linux world, where 6 months is a lifetime.
If you're software is older than 6 months, it's already obsolete
and might as well be dead. The only kind of software that could
survive that kind of testosterone laced Darwinian death-to-the-weak
Jungle is open sourced software, and only in the case that the
Linux distros maintain the downstreams versions of the software
package to guarantee it will work. So, it's no surprise to see
that the only (popular) games that run on Linux natively are
open source games: Tuxracer, frozen bubbles, gcompris, bzflag,
cube, nethack and all its variants, blob wars, etc.
The only counterexamples that come to my mind are:
Enemy Territory. Are there any others?
--Johnny doesn't use proprietary software if he can help it.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Enemy Territory is free (beer), but there are other examples. The best of those are Doom 3 (and its expansion, Resurection of Evil) and Quake 4. Bioware did a great job porting Neverwinter Nights for Linux as well but, unfortunately, Neverwinter Nights 2, which is made by another company and AFAIK due to be launched today won't run on Linux. Unreal-based games are also very portable (see UT and America's Army 2.5 and ear
Re:So where does all of this leave Linux gamers? (Score:4, Insightful)
1. Drivers. You have to include drivers for all the hardware that your game needs (graphics, sound, network, input devices), including future devices in these categories. I've heard some interesting ideas for ways around this. They're interesting, but lead to a complicated and lengthy install process. You need to get your OS to boot on everyone's crazy hardware configurations.
2. Networking and patching. If you're making a network enabled game you're asking people to put their computers on a network (likely even the Internet) with an OS that can't be updated without spinning another DVD. There will be security holes found in the OS. Lots of people running the exact same unpatched OS version will be playing these games. Just because the OS installation on the CD/DVD can't be modified, it leaves open an attack vector to data on the hard drive. Game manufacturers like the ability to easily patch their games for bugs, anti-hacking techniques, and other random things. Argue all you want that they should get it right the first time, they wouldn't want to give that up.
3. Rebooting. People don't like rebooting. It takes a long time. They have to disconnect from IM programs, they have to turn off their music players, etc. They lose their software stack and configuration info (think configurable input devices that require userland apps for configuration). Configuration that would be shared between multiple games must be redone for every game you buy. It's more difficult for people to minimize the game and post the video of their latest frag to their website.
4. Licensing. What OS would game developers use for this? Windows or some similar variant. The driver support and developer tools are there for Windows, and most PCs sold today have undergone QA on Windows. Paying the licensing costs would drive up the price of the game.
And what is gained? The day-to-day experience (that is, the experience outside of patching and installation) for Linux/Mac users would be the same as now: a reboot into an OS they use mostly for gaming; in fact, since a real Windows installation would be more useful than the game OS the experience would really be slightly worse. The day-to-day experience for Windows users would be much worse: two reboots to go from regular use to game and back. Reboots between different games.
Parent