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Warhawk PS3 Server Clusters

Posted by Zonk on Mon Aug 13, 2007 02:35 PM
from the off-the-rack-racks dept.
PlayStation (Games)
News for nerds writes "The official Sony Playstation blog posted the game server details of the upcoming online shooter game Warhawk. Interestingly the game's Ranked Dedicated servers, available in addition to user-hosted PS3 servers, are hosted in rack-mounted PS3 clusters."
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Submission: Warhawk PS3 Server Clusters by News for nerds (448130)
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  • Queue the usual (Score:3, Funny)

    by Dancindan84 (1056246) on Monday August 13 2007, @02:40PM (#20215693)
    "Imagine a Beowulf clust... oh wait."
  • Hmmm, not a bad idea in all honesty, I wonder what the cost trade-off is? Worse case they shut them down and sell the clusters to medical research or power computing.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by fistfullast33l (819270)
      I think the article summary/article itself is a little misleading - my understanding is that these machines aren't necessarily creating a distributed network of nodes in one server as we would think of it. Instead it's just a bunch of PS3s running their own dedicated Warhawk servers individually. They're put in racks and spread around the globe to provide low latency connections to many different dedicated servers so that no matter where you are, you have access to at least a few dedicated servers that ar
  • Can anyone not behind a retarded proxy post any specs on why PS3 clusters, besides geek value? I'd be interested in knowing more about heat issue, what type of actual performance, etc. Game consoles are one thing I honestly never expected to see a cluster of done outside of a basement.
    • If one thinks about it a bit, it's not that bad of a proposition. PS3 has a powerful main processor and a GigE network link. If they make a version with a regular CD or DVD drive for clustering uses, then they can probably have an infrastructure of very compact, inexpensive, yet potent server systems.

      • Replacing the Blu-ray drive with a regular CD (or no drive at all) would make it cheaper to build but wouldn't reduce the end-user cost. Part of the reason Sony can sell the PS3 at a loss is because they see it as an investment in the HD-media war (Blu-ray vs. HD-DVD, iTunes video vs. Sony, etc.).

        There are already Cell Based Servers [terrasoftsolutions.com] on the market. But, given that you have to ask for a price quote, I expect they cost more than $600 (and don't come with "Motostorm" ;)).

      • The PS3 can read CD and DVD disks as well as Blu-ray disks (I am amazed people don't know this). You can install Linux from DVD or CD if you wish. In addition you can play PS2 (DVD/CD) or PS1 (CD) games, not to mention playing PS3 games on Blu-ray. You can even play DVD movies and it will upscale them as well.

        The only thing the PS3 drive cannot do is burn disks but put on Linux and plug in a BD/DVD/CD burner via USB and it should work (I have not tried this though). I am not sure about HD-DVD but if you h
        • You didn't understand the parent. He didn't claim the PS3 can't read dvds or cds. And frankly, it's not that impressive that the PS3 can do so. Yes, USB peripherals, be them HD DVD players or dvd burners, do work fine.

          The parent thinks that skipping the components in the PS3 not related to this game would save money. IE, no need for the optical audio output or the flash card readers or any optical disc reader. Makes sense, but it may be cheaper not to go through the customization trouble since Sony has
    • ... PS2 clusters have been used for calculations by the NCSA [uiuc.edu]. And supooosedly (insert grain of salt) Saddam Hussein was buying up PS2's to get around those pesky export restrictions to build a computing cluster for a weapons program.

      But it makes sense. There are a lot of parallels between scientific and game/graphics computing, intense mathematical operations namely. So it would make sense that a processor optimized for gaming would be good for scientific research. Look at the folding at home project, for
      • And supooosedly (insert grain of salt) Saddam Hussein was buying up PS2's to get around those pesky export restrictions to build a computing cluster for a weapons program.

        Erm, despite all the other whoppers we were told, that one actually was a hoax. Of the joke kind. Of the hah-hah could anyone possibly take it seriously kind. Um, lemme think some more and try again.

    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by faloi (738831)
      The best reason is that there are plenty of PS3's sitting around collecting dust on store shelves. Should get some use out of them, anyway :)
    • Warhawk comes with the server code built into the game (so that users can host a game if they want). My guess is the developer saves time and money by not having to write and test a seperate server application to run on a different architecture (most likely a bunch of x86 servers). So it makes sense to just use the server code already built into the game and just host dedicated servers using a bunch of Playstation 3s.

      Also, Sony has lots of extra Playstations laying around that they can turn into dedicated s
      • Well ... the other benefit of the included server is that it allows more flexibility to the end user.

        - Have a Clan and enough bandwidth and want to host a server for your clan? No problem (you can host a game and play on it at the same time).
        - The number of servers should (theoretically) scale with the number of users, since any user can host an "official game" (locked parameters).
        - There is little(to no) danger of someone shutting off the servers (such as was done recently), since even if all the official
        • - There is little(to no) danger of someone shutting off the servers (such as was done recently), since even if all the official servers went away, there would still be the unofficial ones.

          Only true if it uses a P2P sructure or player-run masterservers to tell people about the servers that run, otherwise once the masterserver goes down all your player servers won't do anything because the client cannot connect to them (directly entering the IP of the server might be supported but don't count on it).
          • You're absolutely correct. If there is a master server to list then you are right. The cost required to operate/maintain a master server though is probably quite a bit less than maintaining dedicated servers, which should provide less incentive for a company to "pull support".

            The game itself supports LAN play so I would assume that directly entering the IP of the server should work though.
            • Warhawk uses a master server for authentication and matchmaking services. The game uses a client server architecture for in-game play. PS3 systems can be run as a server, or dedicated server. The number of players allowed on a server depends on the machines bandwidth. They do not allow entering an IP address directly. LAN play uses a broadcasst so all machines in a lan game have to be on the same LAN segment.
              • They've been ways around things like this for a long time.

                Take a look at things like Kali [wikipedia.org].

                It might take setting up some sort of routing software on a local PC for each person involved in the game, but it should be very doable to make the PS3 think its playing locally against people from across the country/globe. Wether the LAN game can support the response times and how bandwidth requirements will be impacted is a different question.
    • The thing to understand here is that cell blades are difficult to get a hold of and cost $18k. Even the
      linux on cell group at IBM (where I currently work) uses ps3s for their development as a result. I know
      IBM is developing cell big iron to market as mmporg host. I wouldnt be surprised if this was part
      of that effort. Performance per watt and reliability I was told was quite favorable when compared to
      traditional x86 clusters.
    • Well PS3s do have the option to install Linux on them out of the box, my guess is that's what they did. In terms of price, I'm pretty sure to build a machine as powerful as a PS3 would cost more then $500. IBM and Mercury sell Cell Processor server blades, however I can't find a price or specs page. (Didn't really try all that hard.) However need more info about performance to determine if it is a "better" option for servers.

      • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

        by Weslee (1118943)
        No linux on those PS3s. If you read the article, you'll notice that the game ships with a server mode. I'm guessing they just load a modified version of the game that ships (one that skips the graphics and runs in only dedicated mode), and just let it run.
        • Touche. Teach me to post before reading.

          Though the possibility remains for other games. Or even Sony itself to setup dedicated clusters.
        • I wouldn't be surprised if the shipped game could run as a dedicated server as well. Boot up the disc, do some weird "combo-move" on the controller (so you won't need to plug in a TV), and dedicated server mode starts. Would probably be cheaper than building, testing and publishing two separate releases, no matter how similar they would be.
        • Since when do we "know" that Sony subsidizes them? Last I checked, the only people that said that were clueless analysts.

          • When it's all said and done, Warhawk is a Peer-to-Peer network game, and the "Servers" have to be running Warhawk, and the only real way to do that, is to run them on actual PS3 hardware.

            Uh, no. Tbey have the source code, they can port/recompile/test on any system they want. Sure, that has an associated cost, but running it on commodity hardware - or even just on hardware that'll rackmount better - will pay for it eventually.

            Well ... there IS something to be said for only having ONE codebase to have to tes

  • Well... (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    They had to do something with all the PS3's that no one's buying.

  • This explains a lot! (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I was wondering how Sony were selling as many PS3s as they are!

    • Err... I don't think it counts when they sell them to themselves because... nothing actually changes hands, so it's not legally* a transaction...

      * - IANAL

      • In accounting terms, it might actually be a sale, depending on the laws and how the company is set up. I don't know how Japanese accounting works, but in the US, I don't think one subsidiary can just "give" its products to another subsidiary, it has to count as a sale and the accounting must show that money was taken from the accounts of one subsidiary to another. It's still empty paper work in this case.
        • There are 180 PS3s in that picture (15 per rack side/30 per rack. 6 racks). If they build one of these "clusters" for each region, or even a few per region, you're still talking less than 1000 PS3s. That's hardly a blip in the sales numbers either way.
  • Warhawk was a great shooter on the C64.

    Surely this game represents prior art and the trademark and so on is the property of the company/individual that originally developed it?

    Or is Sony pulling a Disney or something?

    I thought companies like Sony were supposed to respect copyright.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Thanks Sony Fanbot!

      As we all know, the only reason you put up such FUD filled posts all the time is because there aren't any decent games out for the PS3, so you have nothing to do with your time.

      Its going to be mighty fun seeing your ass handed to you when sales of the 360 and the Wii go through the roof with Halo 3, Mario Galaxy and Smash Bros come out.

      Retard!
      • If they log in we can tag them as foes (and their karma would go down for the constant insults), if they don't we have to rate ACs down to avoid them.

          • No, I want someone to not be a pussy and show their name. Is that unreasonable?

            What's your name?

            • Re:Sony Giving Microsoft A Lesson In Online Gaming (Score:4, Insightful)

              by Pojut (1027544) on Monday August 13 2007, @03:52PM (#20216665) Homepage
              Number one, I couldn't have modded him down and posted in the same article.

              Number two, I NEVER ONCE said he was right or wrong. You find where I said he was either right or wrong, or where I support one system more than the other, and I'll clip my balls.

              Number three, you cannot sit there and honestly tell me that you think that post was constructed out of someone's own personal opinion unless they are either A. a raving fanboy (which you yourself even spoke against in your own post) or B. are a payed shill.

              The AC that posted above me was correct though. Had that very same thing been posted by a logged-in screen name, I would have simply responded to his claims (which, as you have already addressed, are indeed accurate) and treated it as a person's opinion. But seeing a post with that style of formatting and wording posted by an AC...come on.
              • Well, it could be legit. I mean, as the other AC said, those are all valid points for Sony's and against Microsoft's online plan. I actually didn't know some of that, if true (does Microsoft really have no dedicated servers? That seems like quite the cheesy deal to me, when you're paying for the online service), so it's interesting to read.

                On the other hand, you could be right, too. I imagine that the low player counts of GoW and Halo 2/3 are deliberate, and not a technical limitation, and I certainly thi

                • Well, it could be legit. I mean, as the other AC said, those are all valid points for Sony's and against Microsoft's online plan. I actually didn't know some of that, if true (does Microsoft really have no dedicated servers? That seems like quite the cheesy deal to me, when you're paying for the online service), so it's interesting to read.

                  Actually - that is true. All Live connections are peer-to-peer. Which is cheesy in a for-pay service, I agree. Supposedly Halo 3 will be the first to have dedicated serve

              • You're truly a psycho paranoid. I'm sorry, but you really think attacking people as paid shills is effective? Argue with the merits of his claims. I think that shouldn't be hard to do, XBOX live is very popular and that speaks for itself. But dedicated servers, 40 man games, and free access are all cool. Home is probably cool too (not really relevant, but it's free and online and second life is popular with weirdos, so sort of)

                Also, some people don't want to bother registering if they don't have to. S
                • ::sigh:: once again, find somewhere in my post where I said he was wrong.

                  You won't, because he isn't. I own every console/handheld Sony has released, just like I own every Microsoft console (all two of them, lol) just like I own every Nintendo console/handheld (yes, even a virtual boy)

                  Once again, look at the way his post was worded, formatted, and constructed. You cannot sit there and tell me that was an everday joe-blow kind of post unless, once again, it was either A. a payed shill or B. a raving fanboy
    • You XBOX shills need to calm down and take a breather. This is a great PR move, and this again highlights that the Cell is a great and versatile processor. Yeah, I know this is probably just a PS3 running a PS3 game, but from a PR standpoint, using the PS3 as a server makes it sound like a computer and highlights that it has a neat processor. And frankly, the fact that it has a fast processor is a good reason to own a PS3, even if it doesn't translate into better games (though I'm sure it does). Cool te
      • Cell is a nice processor and the PS3 can function as a server, but that doesn't mean that the XBox 360 can't.

        I wonder if the 3-core CPU in the X360 reflects the ideas represented in the 3-way AMD server story. I hadn't thought of the one-hop idea. I can't tell if the X360 has a Gig-E jack on it (PS3 has Gig-E), but otherwise it appears that the X360 can be used to do pretty much the same thing.

        • I wonder if the 3-core CPU in the X360 reflects the ideas represented in the 3-way AMD server story. I hadn't thought of the one-hop idea. I can't tell if the X360 has a Gig-E jack on it (PS3 has Gig-E), but otherwise it appears that the X360 can be used to do pretty much the same thing.

          Yeah ... IBM has been doing 3-way chip design for a bit, and since the 360's chips are from IBM ... I wouldn't be surprised if this is part of why they went that route.

          On the other hand I think the XBox 360's reliability wou

        • Cell is a nice processor and the PS3 can function as a server, but that doesn't mean that the XBox 360 can't.

          You're absolutely right, but I think you missed the GP's point. The GGP got modded -1 troll for saying that the Cell processor is cool. Anyone who moderates like that has to have some other reason for doing so, maybe a personal grudge against the poster (Slashdot is serious business, after all), or maybe they're a hardcore Xbox fanboy. I really don't know what that moderator's reason was, but it can't have been actually based on the post. That's what the GP was bitching about, not saying that the 360 isn't

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