Valve Reevaluates Episodic Gaming

Dr. Eggman writes "CVG has a recent article on Valve's future plans for episodic gaming. After the third episode of Half-Life 2 is out, Valve plans to sit down with the community and figure out what is working and what's not. Gabe Newell also wants to spend time with Telltale Games and Blizzard, both developers of episodic and episodic-like game content. It it worth it to try to release content on an episodic basis? 'We just want to sit down with three examples in front of us and talk it over with gamers to find out what they would like us to do next.'"

The problem with episodic gaming...

[nojjynb (1003593)]

... isn't that we aren't getting a full game, or that they're spreading out the story over 3 or 4 games. No, the problem is when they say they'll release them between 9 and 12 months apart, and they don't release the second episode for 2 years.

I'm a fan of the quick, 8 hour episodes, released yearly. I'm not a fan of having to wait 2 years for that type of content when many games put out full blown sequels. Honestly, either work on upgrading the engine, or work on the episodic content, not both at the same time. Besides, why should what is essentially an overgrown expansion pack run on a different engine than the original? Bang out the new content while you have another team working on upgrading the engine, then you could go back and make the old content run on the new engine, or not, as you please.

Re:The problem with episodic gaming...

[*weasel (174362)]

Exactly.

Valve re-evaluating episodic gaming is like me re-evaluating my relationship with Salma Hayek.

Re:

[dyslexicbunny (940925)]

That's pretty much the same problem I've had with the episodic gaming. They promised new content every 6 months, which was nice since I got to play new parts to the franchise every 6 months instead of every two years. I always considered the perk being that I never really forgot about the series and kept wanting to play.

Like you, I always saw episodic content in the sense of we release episodes on release A. Keep working on release B and integrate it for a major release (like HL3). I think Valve lost foc

Re:The problem with episodic gaming...

[happyemoticon (543015)]

I am really skeptical of any engine improvements for one big reason: HDR/Bloom slows my computer down to a crawl. Yeah, it looks awesome, but I can't justify spending the money to get a system that handle that level of graphical glitz.

You bring up an important point, though: do engine improvements make a game better? No more than special effects improve a movie's plot. In fact, if I had a dime for every time showing off some CGI bullshit actually made a movie's cinematography worse, I'd have about ten bucks thanks to the Star Wars prequel trilogy alone. I'd say that graphical glamor should never be so grandiose that it slows down a game's user interface (if it has one as such), and that, in many cases, cartoonish graphics and fewer frills actually make a game more playable, and thus a better game. Other elements of a "blockbuster" game, such as extensive plot development and cutscenage, are also anti-game in the sense that they distract you from the actual point of the game which is to, uh, play the game. I was playing FFX for the first time earlier this week, and I just couldn't stand it. You take away all the atrocious yammering and soulful gazes, and all you're left with is too little of a fairly banal game.

Of course, the caveat to this is that, in many cases, engine improvements can contribute to sales, and a game can't really sell itself on its gaming merits. And, as Ken Levine pointed out on that talk show he was on recently, politics can lead to business decisions being made for purely b2b-related reasons, and I'm sure it only gets worse when you're a titan of a company like Valve. This isn't too hard for me to imagine:

Valve Exec: ... Yeah, so we're not too hot on the whole "Bloom" thing. I mean, it's cool and all, but implementing it properly presents a challenge, and it adds another variable for the level designers and artists to think about, and it's just going to slow down production.
Nvidia Rep: Oh? Really? Gee, that's really disappointing...
Valve Exec: What do you mean?
Nvidia Rep: Oh, I don't know. I mean, you know, if all of the game companies in the world stopped pushing technology, we'd basically be out of business.
Valve Exec: We're not talking about bloom never, just not for this quick episodic release business plan we're having. When we come out with our next major title, it's definitely got bloom.
Nvidia Rep: Yeah, and when's that gonna be? 2010 or 2011 if we take into account your last hit. Look, you're one of the big developers. One of the only big developers. Who's going to do it if you don't? Bethesda? Shit, come on. And we do a lot of nice things for you in terms of features and API support. I mean, I guess we might just have to stop doing those if you're not going to play ball. Valve Exec: Okay, hang on. *picks up phone* Yeah, hey, you know, I'd really like you to try to get that bloom stuff into Episode 2. What? Yeah, I know it'll delay it, that's fine. But we're just talking a few months, right?

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[Xian97 (714198)]

is the same problem I had with episodic novels. A prime example was Stephen King's "The Green Mile". You ended up paying more for 6 paperback novellas than the hardcover containing the full story would have cost you up front. I didn't like getting involved in the story then having to put it on hold waiting for the next episode to come out either.

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[GeckoX (259575)]

Don't think it has to be that way, but Stephen King is a particularly good example of the wrong way to do it. The Green Mile was definitely a milk job. The other was the gunslinger series. OK, not exactly episodic, but similar...started off ok, but he clearly had NO idea where it was going, just a hook to get through the first few 'episodes' knowing fans would want closure to the story and would basically buy anything. The rest was complete and utter crap.

I haven't read a single thing from SK since he royal

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[GeckoX (259575)]

Sorry, you're right:

Step 1: Come up with general idea for grand magnum opus.
Step 2: Decide it'll be in 7 parts.
Step 3: Plan out first 3 parts.
Step 4: Write and sell first 3 parts.
Step 5: ?
Step 6: Profit!

I DO know quite a bit about it. I was a HUGE SK fan thank you very much. It is well know that other than a very loose idea of the 7 books, there was almost no initial planning beyond the first 3 other than an overarching idea.

Reading the entire series, it's all but impossible to miss this. There's the first

Re:The problem with episodic gaming...

[Lord_Dweomer (648696)]

Not to mention that episodic gaming as a whole has been one thinly veiled attempt at milking more money out of consumers "per episode" than it would normally cost for the game. Remember way back in the day when companies used to release free content patches? Yeah, that'll never happen again. Episodic content will ensure you get nickle and dimed for everything you've got.

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[Guspaz (556486)]

The episodes cost $20 each. There are three of them. Together they constitute what, ~18 hours of FPS gameplay? That's about the length of a full game. Three episodic games, $60 total. That's also about the cost of a full game.

So, all told, you're getting about the same amount of gameplay as a full game for about the same cost. How is that "milking more money out of consumers"?

Besides, Valve tends to also release episodes with other content bundled in. Episode two, for example, will also be available in a pa

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[ShadowsHawk (916454)]

Except their NOT $20 each. Ep1 was $20 and Ep2 will be $30. We're already at $50, so unless Ep3 is $10, we're not getting what was promised. As for the 'Orange box'; I already own Half-Life 2 and Ep1. They should be rewarding loyal fans rather than punishing them.

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[BeanBagKing (1151733)]

I for one will not chastise a company that pushes a release date back, even this far, in order to make a quality product. I've played far too many games that are bugged, crash, some won't even install correctly. I've played several that are easier to pirate because piracy removed a lot of the problems I was having (I still own a copy however). I've said it before and I'll say it again. If the product is worth it (as half-life 2 certainly is), I'm willing to wait the time it takes to make it perfect. Do I w

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[JayDot (920899)]

So far my favorite "episodic" release has been Guild Wars. They've released three major, stand-alone titles in 18 months, plus a high-level "expansion pack". All have been top-quality.

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[RealErmine (621439)]

either work on upgrading the engine, or work on the episodic content, not both at the same time

You're right on the money here. The story mentions Valve meeting with Telltale and Blizzard like there's some secret weapon to releasing episodic content on time. There is no secret weapon, Valve, there's just common sense and effective time management. In both cases, the companies stuck with an established engine and concentrated only on content between episode releases. This obviates the need for numerous, ti

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[The MAZZTer (911996)]

I think Valve's main problem is that they were working on OTHER projects too (Portal, TF2).

I mean, I PREFER having more games from Valve, but I think the proper way to do episodic content is to channel as much energy (ie staff working on it) as possible to shorten the development time. But like I said, I'm really looking forward to Portal and TF2 is a lot of fun. Quite frankly, it's harder to do episodic with a FPS rather than something like Sam and Max. Sam and Max reuses some of its main locations, w

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[Guspaz (556486)]

Valve isn't a small company. They have multiple teams, and they work on different projects. TF2 was ready before Episode 2, and it would seem that Portal was finished quite some time ago. Episode 2 is what has been holding everything back, so it would seem that not having TF2/Portal probably wouldn't have sped up the release.

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[GeckoX (259575)]

Why do the bundles frustrate you? You can buy the episodes without the bundle, or get a great deal on the bundled content. I fail to see the problem. $45 for an 8 hr episode, TF, and Portal is a very good deal.

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[SpryGuy (206254)]

Let's see... I only want Episode 2. I don't want Team Fortress 2, and I already have Half-Life 2 and Episode 1.

"Portal" is a nice bonus, but still, I'm having to buy this huge bundle, half of which is redundant, and a big part of which I don't want and won't play (TF2).

Having to wait 2 years for them to put all this together, and pay more for it, when I could have/should have gotten just Episode 2 a year ago, at a much cheaper cost, is frustrating.

You don't think that's frustrating?

I've heard this one before.

[DarrenBaker (322210)]

Valve plans to sit down with the community and figure out what is working and what's not.

Are... Are you breaking up with me?

Re:Maybe

[sethstorm (512897)]

I wouldn't call that relationship sultry by any means. The stockholders seem to think it was nothing more than a torrid affair.

The Orange box insult to existing HL2 owners.

[Trevelyan (535381)]

All I can say that the Orange Box promotion is a slap in the face for those of us that already have Half-Life 2 and Episode 1.

I see no sign of a Episode 2+Portal+Team Fortress (ie no HL2+E1) promotion (and pre-order discount), and who wants to pay for the same content twice?

I maybe wrong, but if so, then Steam has done a poor job of advertising any alternative promotions. Especially considering it already knows what games I own.

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[W2k (540424)]

When you buy the OB, you get gift certificates for HL2 and HL2:Ep1 if you already own those games. I would probably have bought it even if it meant paying for those games twice; the $45 it cost are easily worth it for HL2:Ep2, Portal and TF2 alone.

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[W2k (540424)]

I'm certain they'll offer Episode 2 on its own once it's out. Likely it'll be priced the same as Ep1 was on release, which was about $30 if I remember incorrectly. So some people will no doubt whine that they are being ripped off when TOB, which contains the full game in addition to lots of other goodies, is only $15 more.

So let them whine. It's a bundle; the whole point of a bundle is that you get more value for less money. If this includes some stuff you don't want, do a simple cost/benefit and decide

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[bateleur (814657)]

In general I agree with your point, but in this case what happens if I want to play (say) Team Fortress 2 but none of the other stuff in the box? Is there another way to buy it? Because if not I can see how that might annoy some people.

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[Macthorpe (960048)]

I did check this out - you can buy each part of the box seperately on Steam for $19.99.

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[toolie (22684)]

I did check this out - you can buy each part of the box seperately on Steam for $19.99.

Not quite [steampowered.com].

HalfLife 2: $29.95
Episode 1: $19.95
Episode 2: $29.95
Portal: $19.95
Team Fortress 2: $29.95

Individual price $129.75
Package price $49.95
pre-purchase discount - $5.00
Cost to you $44.95

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[Sosarian (39969)]

You know that's all number games and mechanics at some level. It's obvious that the real price of those titles is way less then what they are selling them for.

The real price of those titles is closer to half of of their listed prices. It's about $10/game, if you agree that TF2 and HL2 are worth more then those are worth about $15 and the rest are worth about $6-7 each. Even marking them up unbundled so they are $19.95 and $9.95 it would be about $70. That's the price they really should be selling these

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[desenz (687520)]

They are available separately on steam. Episode2 and Team Fortess2 are $29.95 each. Portal goes for 19.95 by itself. If you wanted just one of them, go for it. But the bundle isn't so bad...its currently $45. They also give you a free license for HL2 and Episode 1 that you can give away(assuming you already have a copy), so there must be someone you know who could use one.

Re:The Orange box insult to existing HL2 owners.

[Aladrin (926209)]

It's only an insult if you let it be. You -knew- that the price would come down if you waited. If you wait long enough, the price comes to down almost nothing. In this case, it came down to exactly nothing, if you purchase the Orange Box. (Orange Box is $50, the price of a new game, and includes 3 new games, even if one is just an episode.)

You paid to play it when it came out, and all the time up until Orange Box is released. If you feel like you were cheated, DON'T BUY NEW GAMES. This will happen every single time. The price ALWAYS comes down eventually. You will, of course, miss the best years of the product's life, especially online. That's up to you.

So buy it or don't, but don't claim you've been cheated. No, the truth is, the people that waited have a small bonus.

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[Darundal (891860)]

You were aware of the black box and what happened to that BEFORE you wrote your post defending the Orange Box, weren't you?

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[Aladrin (926209)]

No, but I don't really see that it matters. At the time Black Box was cancelled, Orange Box was scheduled for $60. Now it's $50. (For PC, which is the only place Black Box was going to exist anyhow.)

The fact that you can't buy just Ep2 does show that either Valve has given up on episodic content, or they really have no bloody idea what it means. Since this article is about them begging customers and competitors for information on what they're doing wrong, I'm going to guess it's the latter.

I don't like

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[Guspaz (556486)]

You can buy just Episode 2, or at least you will once it's out. Steam lists the price as $30. That would seem to invalidate your main point.

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[SpryGuy (206254)]

We were promised at the time EP1 came out (and was purchased) that a separate, individual EP2 would come out in 6-9 months for the same cost (under $20).

So yes, it is an insult. We were lied to. They failed to keep their promises. And if we had known that our choice would be limited to just this "orange box" back then, I woudln't have bothered buying EP1 at the time.

They're out to screw their loyal customers, pure and simple. There's no other explaination for it. Why the hell did they cancel the "black

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[Aladrin (926209)]

Go ahead, but don't bitch when nobody follows you. The rest of us find the prices acceptable and will continue to pay them. That's how the free market works.

I was tempted to find your post to be sarcastic, but that would mean you hadn't bothered to actually read more than a few words of mine... So I had to choose ignorant and sarcastic, or just plain stupid. I chose the latter.

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[Kelz (611260)]

Meh, I've pre-ordered it and I can say I'd personally pay $50 for just TF2 (being a broke college student, that does kinda have some weight). Its fun, and its a lot of fucking content for $50. Can't wait for portal.

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[Pharmboy (216950)]

I was thinking the same thing, that TF2 is worth the $50. It is weird that everyone is bitching so much. TF2 will cost $60 by itself on the consoles, so would Portal if released for consoles. I may not like the way they bundled the games, but the fact is, the price is cheap for everything you are getting. Damn cheap, AND you can give away two games and yes, so they can drum up new biz.

Still: What you pay vs. what you get, it is a very good deal. Perhaps their marketing of the price is bad, but the dea

Re:The Orange box insult to existing HL2 owners.

[adagioforstrings (192285)]

Well, unlike the other folks here, I agree with you. The "Black Box" was the set that contained only the three games you mentioned. Valve eliminated it because stores apparently didn't want two SKUs for basically the same thing. The list price for the three we don't have is $80, but consider that Episode 2 is priced $10 (50%!) higher than Episode 1, and the other two games are arguably $5-$10 higher than similar products in the past. I probably won't play TF2 much just because I don't have time for multiplayer anymore. Who knows how much of a game Portal is. I've prepurchased all the new Valve games in the past, but this time it's just a little hard for me to swallow. I may actually wait for reviews this time before purchasing. If someone else feels like they get the value out of it, then fine, but I'm not sure I will.

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[Darundal (891860)]

I somehow don't buy that argument because of Vista/XP.

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[antdude (79039)]

I posted a newgroup thread about this recently. You can see the conversation on Google Groups [google.com]. I am going to hold off my purchase unless I see it for really cheap. I am also upset with this bundle.

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[east coast (590680)]

I just want to go on the record and say that Lost Coast hardly counts as a game or an episode. Any semi-talented HL2 player could run the entire map in under a half an hour. It was more like a demo and, IMHO, I think that's what Valve meant it as; a demo of their new rendering techniques.

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[_xeno_ (155264)]

It was more like a demo and, IMHO, I think that's what Valve meant it as; a demo of their new rendering techniques.

Try playing through with commentary enabled. That's exactly what it is, they're completely transparent about that. It's a tech demo of their new "high dynamic range" engine. The location and event are intended to show off the new engine and really nothing more.

In fact, I'd say that there's no point to playing it without commentary. It's very short and does nothing that effects the story. It's literally a tech demo.

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[Lord Crc (151920)]

Not being able to play a game because I don't have internet that is Single Player is evil.

Apparently they have this offline [steampowered.com] mode which allows you to do just that...

Regarding distribution

[sethstorm (512897)]

As long as there's a full no-Steam way to get/use it, frequently updated (or just less than the TF to sequel) content is fine.

Its a difficult question...

[PJ1216 (1063738)]

In my opinion, fewer original games are coming out. Episodic content for great games is fine. Half-Life is an example of this. However, I think thats an exception in an ongoing trend in video games. I think fewer and fewer games are coming out that are even worthwhile purchasing as opposed to renting. There just aren't that many games that are coming out that are newsworthy. Bio-shock and Halo 3 are some examples of games worth buying. PS3 hasn't had any yet in my opinion (and if they don't real soon, they might as well go the way of sega). Even Wii doesn't have that many (It's doing so well just because of the gameplay, but when it comes down to it, it just has a bunch of games that are fun, but not that many that are as engrossing as Bio-shock or to name a classic, Final Fantasy VII.)

It just seems like gaming has gone the same route as movies. Yea, some sequels are decent, but a majority of the ones that come out are never as great as the original. Then on top of that, there are fewer and fewer movies being made that are worth seeing more than once. yea, they're entertaining the first time, but no replay value.

Unfortunately, I think we've hit a downward slope in terms of games as an art.

I think they need to get to more original content. yea, some people might be upset because some of these continuing stories are really great, but I can't see anyone ever keeping that up. Eventually they'll start making bad ones because only so much can happen in a storyline that is exciting. Writers eventually run out of ideas. Then the franchise is ruined and everybody will complain. Its better leaving on a high note, then dragging it out until no one wants it.

Hopefully I got my point across. Kind of tired and I may have rambled a bit. =P

My input

[Xenolith (538304)]

Six month release cycle. Three hours of content. $10 / episode. Stand-alone (no package deals).

Telltale has it right

[spyrochaete (707033)]

I much prefer the way Telltale did their episodic series to Valve's. If I recall, the second Sam and Max episode came out a little late, but all the rest were either on time or early. A month between episodes was the perfect length - my excitement from the last episode hadn't cooled by the time the next one came out. Having the option to buy all episodes in advance for a greatly reduced price was a much better idea than Orange box, which would have been a great deal 3 years ago. Telltale even made a gorgeous retail DVD box available to season subscribers for merely the cost of shipping, and it was packed with tons of content not included in the digital downloads. Very timely, classy, and professional.

I love Half Life and I really love Episode One. I hate how long it was in development and would rather have played it a year sooner with no HDR. The again, Valve's releases are near-immaculate and the developer commentary hints at how much painstaking care they put into their games, so I've learned not to wish too hard that they rush their releases. Still, it's been YEARS since the last episode and if for some reason Episode Two never came out I'd hardly miss it at this point.

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[Bieeanda (961632)]

I imagine that Telltale is also a smaller outfit and coming up with jokes and storylines aside, the S&M engine is easier to bolt things onto and script for. Scene-based adventure games are doubtlessly easier to develop on a technical level, since there are far fewer places for the player to sneak under the world or exploit AI.

That said, something like S&M, or the CSI games that Telltale puts out too, are [i]perfect[/i] for episodic gaming. Shooters have gone so far beyond the days of Wolf3D and Do

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[GarfBond (565331)]

Uh, it's been only a little over 1 year since Episode 1 came out, and Episode 2 comes out in under 2 weeks.

Episode 2 was promised to us on a much more aggressive schedule, but if you've played TF2 you can see the amount of care they've put into it. Well worth the wait IMO, even if the TF2 wait was agonizing.

Gave episodic a chance?

[Bob-taro (996889)]

Now don't get me wrong. Valve is great, HL and HL2 are my all-time favorite games, and I don't even mind the "orange box" package. That said, given the long wait for ep1 and ep2 (shorter, I admit, than the wait for hl2), and the bundling with ep2, I think it's a stretch for Valve to claim they have much experience with episodic releases. Maybe the discussion should be more centered around whether Value can even do episodic releases.

I love episodic gaming

[Baldrake (776287)]

I love episodic gaming, and am very much looking forward to Bioware's release of Witch's Wake episode 2 [bioware.com].

It's perhaps instructive to think about some of the things that happened in the world since episode 1 was released in Dec. 2004:

• W. Mark Felt was confirmed to be Watergate's "Deep Throat"
• Michael Jackson was found not guilty of child molestation charges
• Lance Armstrong retired after winning his seventh Tour de France
• The Xbox 360, PS 3 and Wii were released

And for those Bioware boys in Edmonton:

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[Creepy (93888)]

a newer version of DirectX probably won't fix many crashing problems - usually the installer will make sure you have a valid minimum level and that's been tested fairly thoroughly. Try to find a newer version of the graphics driver for your system (from nVidia, ATI, Intel, etc). A DX error doesn't always mean DirectX itself failed, as DX interfaces with various hardware drivers.

I had similar issues with Oblivion caused by bugs in the nVidia driver that were fixed in a later driver (relati