Linden Labs Sends "Permit-and-Proceed" Letter

linuxwrangler writes "In sharp contrast to the incidents chronicled at Chilling Effects, Second Life creators Linden Labs have sent the parody site Get a First Life a proceed-and-permit letter. From the letter: 'Linden Lab is well-known for having strict hiring standards, including a requirement for having a sense of humor, from which our lawyers receive no exception. In conclusion, your invitation to submit a cease-and-desist letter is hereby rejected.' The letter also grants permission to use the parody logos."

pun intended

[macadamia_harold (947445)]

Second Life creators Linden Labs have sent the parody site Get a First Life a proceed-and-permit letter.

In other words, they're virtually going along with the joke.

Re:pun intended

[scumdamn (82357)]

Not to be a noodge, but they've enhanced the joke as far as I'm concerned. I would appreciate Get A First Life without the letter, but the wording in the letter is right on. I bet the legal dept. got with the marketing dept. for that one because the tone is just perfect. Dry, yet actually funny (you've seen companies try too hard I'm sure. This isn't the case.)

Its a great game.

[Frogbert (589961)]

I've always said second life is like four times better then half-life.

Re:Its a great game.

[Pyrex5000 (1038438)]

Or, according to Verizon math, Second Life is four hundred times better than half-life.

Re:

[AbRASiON (589899)]

Is that .5 or .05 of a life? and African or European lifes?

Re:

[the_other_one (178565)]

Is half-life 2 the first life that we are supposed to get?

Re:Its a great game.

[metlin (258108)]

Wait a while, and it'll be eight times as good! ;-)

IP and Fair Use

[DeadManCoding (961283)]

In an age of the MAFIAA and other organizations dedicated to maintaining stupid IP laws and restrictive fair use laws, it's nice to see a company realize that a parody only helps them more. After all, this is free PR, and good PR at that.

Re:IP and Fair Use

[lamasquerade (172547)]

...it's nice to see a company realize that a parody only helps them more.

Indeed, or even that behaving socially (as opposed to the MPAA's sociopathic actions) is more important that whether or not GetAFirstLife's action helps them. Reading the letter I was struck by just how ridiculous the expected behaviour of companies is. We expect them to act ultra-selfishly - and of course this is covered by the focus of a corporation, profit above all else. But to see a company have some humour, and even grant something it doesn't need to (possibly for a long term profit motive as suggested by parent, but also possibly just because it can and it's nice) shows that the all-profiting, knee jerk bullshit that we are used to is not at all necessary.

Re:IP and Fair Use

[GuyWithLag (621929)]

Actually, Linden Labs had to permit or deny use of their logo, or risk losing the trademark. This is a clever move by them both from the legal side and the PR it generates.

Re:IP and Fair Use

[Sique (173459)]

This is a clever move by them both from the legal side and the PR it generates.

There is nothing wrong with being clever and funny at the same time (even though the /. [slashdot.org] moderation system seems to think otherwise).

Re:IP and Fair Use

[miyako (632510)]

I see this complaint all the time, but if something is already modded funny (which doesn't give karma) can't you just mod it underrated- which will give karma and not change the label? That's what I generally do if something is funny enough to be worth karma, or largely funny but also insightful.

Re:

[networkBoy (774728)]

In fact you are very correct. (I was honestly blown away).
I've written about this on my site below in my sig, or specifically in the editorial section: http://www.farmersreallysucks.com/editorialgetafi r stlife.shtml [farmersreallysucks.com]

While the response from Linden Labs was permissive, in another editorial (the one why Arent Fox sucks) I pick apart the inherent error in judgment sending a stern C&D letter up-front. You can always send a nice letter and follow up with threats if necessary. In the meantime, anyone who woul

Re:

[veganboyjosh (896761)]

it always amazes me to read/hear about corporations that operate with the "profit first" motive. as opposed to some other companies, such as this one, who do something good/funny/charitable in lieu of heavy handing it right away. sure, they could have sent a c&d letter right away, but as other posters have already said, this is a neat way for them to retain their hold without being asshats. in the longterm, it now endears the company name to people (who also have a sense of humor) who know nothing abou

Re:

[arodland (127775)]

Acting in the "community" way is the selfish thing to do most of the time -- it's just a sort of long-term selfishness that many businesses can't seem to appreciate. It's guaranteeing that there will be an ecosystem for you to be part of down the road, instead of alienating/bankrupting/killing all of your potential customers and partners.

depressing

[qw0ntum (831414)]

How depressing is it that this type of thing would only happen in an online world? I think if someone did this to Disney they would send Mickey to come eat you or something.

Re:depressing

[by Anonymous Coward]

I think if someone did this to Disney they would send Mickey to come eat you or something.

Make that the little mermaid. She can eat me any time!

Re:

[ZorinLynx (31751)]

It's been a while, but I distinctly recall her saying she was 16 in the movie.

Of course, that's still "underage" in most states, but the concept is not as disturbing as if she were 12...

-Z

Re:depressing

[richie2000 (159732)]

I think if someone did this to Disney they would send Mickey to come eat you or something.

I can see the cartoon now: Minnie laying on the bed with the speech bubble: "Mickey, come eat me". ;-)

Re:depressing

[Baloo Ursidae (29355)]

You must be new, or you would have known The Internet's motto: "Yes, there's porn of that."

Yay linden labs

[ocelotbob (173602)]

Now if only other people could be so lenient towards copyright [livejournal.com]...

Re:

[Kelz (611260)]

One does wonder how one may patent a series of movements set to music :P (how many monkeys...)

Oh and that WAS a really good show.

Re:Yay linden labs

[Boogaroo (604901)]

Copyright and trademark are different situations. To protect your trademark(logo, company name, etc) you MUST take action to protect it. If you ignore it, you may lose your trademark protection. If you license/permit the usage to a group, this is seen as a way to protect your trademark since you've considered the usage and allowed the parties to use the trademark.

If they did nothing at all, that would cause potential problems. Their response is both classy, and covers their ass.

Re:Yay linden labs

[bersl2 (689221)]

Trademark law (at least, the case law) doesn't work like that.

If you do not take steps to protect your trademark by either threatening to sue or---apparently, because I've never seen it done like this until now---granting permission, then if someone does end up violating your trademark, no matter how flagrantly, they can argue (and successfully at that) that the mark has been diluted and is therefore invalid. You snooze, you lose.

Interestingly, a recent instance of this happening was when Sega Europe fired off a nastygram [ytmnd.com] to YTMND [ytmnd.com] regarding an instance of [ahem] unsavory treatment [link NSFW] [ytmnd.com] of a certain trademarked character. Sega can't do anything right these days. If you read the C&D, you can tell it's pure BS, but it's this aspect of trademark law (i.e., needing to defend marks in such an asshatterous manner) that gets it put on my personal proscription list, along with copyright and patent.

The Obvious Response...

[darkonc (47285)]

The Get A First Life people need to find a lawyer to slam Linden Labs for denying him work, and suggesting that he could get an injunction against the 'proceed and permit' letter under `restraint of trade` laws.

Re:

[jd (1658)]

Oh, I can think of others. Is the sense of humour strict? If not, then the letter is false advertising. Is the act of rejecting an invitation a cease and desist of the parody (for once rejected, it is no longer parody but being parodied)? Is it even lawful for a lawyer to have a sense of humour?

Isn't it sad ...

[gone_bush (578354)]

that we are commenting on the application of common sense.

Re:

[ookabooka (731013)]

What are you talking about? This is slashdot! Land of the geeks and nerds who spend hours formulating arguments to debate trivial things that can be pages long; anything from the difference between geeks and nerds, the proper use of a semicolon (is this sentence correct?) to Java vs. C++ (apples and oranges, there I finished it, don't bother debating).

In all seriousness, that is why I love slashdot, you get to see all sorts of opinions and as long as the arguments aren't inflammatory and make a bit of sens

Lighten up people, it's a joke

[melikamp (631205)]

What's with all the lawyer bashing and paranoia? These guys are clearly making fun of him. Just because the person is a lawyer, doesn't mean he is out to rip you off. There are plenty of good lawyers around. In fact, most lawyers wouldn't do something unethical just because it pays so handsomely well.

Because most lawyers are dead.

Ah, haha, I just couldn't resist...

brilliant

[illuminatedwax (537131)]

Trademarks need to be fought for, otherwise they are useless. This is actually IMHO a very brilliant move by Linden to maintain their hold on their trademarks without being a complete asshole about it.

Re:

[supersat (639745)]

Agreed. If you read the letter, at the very bottom, they grant a license to use the parody logo on products sold at the CafePress store, just in case one is needed. For example, someone wanting to use the proper trademark could convince the court that such commercial activity wasn't fair use, and that a license was needed, and since Linden Labs didn't enforce or license the mark, it should be invalidated. This covers their ass while still allowing the parody.

Good law, not just good humour

[john-da-luthrun (876866)]

This is actually quite smart from a legal point of view. Once Second Life had decided not to go down the road of trying to sue the parody site into oblivion - a wise decision given the PR meltdown such cases tend to cause - it then had a choice.

If it ignored the parody site, that could dilute or otherwise weaken its trade mark rights, making it harder to take action against truly problematic infringement in future. However, by sending a "permit-and-proceed" letter, it not only gets some positive PR for taking a pragmatic and humorous approach - it also transforms the parody site from a trademark-diluting independent endeavour into something that is, in effect, licensed by Second Life. This means they can still be seen to have asserted their trade mark rights rather than allowing the parody site to continue without any intervention at all.

A similar position can arise in relation to land, at least under English law. If someone encroaches on your land for a sufficiently long period of time (12+ years) and you do nothing about it one way or another, you can lose your rights in the land (many people living near railway lines have extended their gardens to the edge of the line by these means). However, if you say to the encroacher, "Oh, that's fine, carry on, I don't mind, you have my permission", then that turns it into a licence, and they cannot then claim "adverse possession" against you later.

Lawyers and Sense of Humor?

[JRHelgeson (576325)]

Corporations with a sense of humor, and lawyers with common sense? Wow: Second Life really is a fantasy world.

Anything is better...

[revolu7ion (994315)]

...than /. stories about flying genitalia

Re:Dangerous precedent being set

[deft (253558)]

something tells me you wouldnt be hired where they require the sense of humor.

Re:Dangerous precedent being set

[mrchaotica (681592)]

Maybe so, but he's got a point. The law doesn't have a sense of humor, so lawyers can't really afford to have on either.

Re:Dangerous precedent being set

[Tom (822)]

The law does have quite a bit of humour, you just have to be a lawyer or someone with legal training to appreciate it.

For example, a workers law here in Germany requires the top boss to talk to the elected workers' council at least once a month. Let me skip the why and boring details. One company persistently rejected to even acknowledge that elected body even existed, much less deal with them.

So one court case later, the judgement was to take the offenders into custody. It's called "Beugehaft" in Germany, the idea being that for minor crimes where fines aren't the proper punishment because what you want is someone to do something, you take him into custody until he says "ok, ok". Now here's the joke: The judgement called for this punishment to be levied on the entire board of directors, and immediately due to the danger of them fleeing. The people who thought they were above it all were in immediate danger of being put behind bars within the hour. And sure, they could call for revision, but they'd still be taken from their office by police and spend at least one night in jail.
A bunch of frentic phonecalls later, the CEO had binding instructions to cooperate fully with the workers council.

Lawyers laugh as much as anyone. It's just that most of their jokes are as puzzling to us as C++ jokes are to your grandmother.

Re:

[RealGrouchy (943109)]

I have a better sense of humor than this feeble attempt at attracting attention.

I don't understand. Are you grumpy because:
(a) They are succeeding at attracting attention;
(b) You are not succeeding at attracting attention, despite your grumpiest attempts;
(c) You discovered that www.getafirstlife.com is not actually functional

- RG>

Re:

[networkBoy (774728)]

I pick C, but as I read the authors blog I kinda understand why he only made one page.

As to the license (GP post) that was just a touch of the real lawyers CYA coming through.
-nB

Re:

[Thexare Blademoon (1010891)]

RealGrouchy is commenting on someone being grumpy. Let's think about that for a moment.

Re:Dangerous precedent being set

[Joebert (946227)]

I have a better sense of humor than this feeble attempt at attracting attention.

Not according to todays Slashdot moderators you don't.

Around here, a sense of humor seems to be defined as answering the question,

"What do you call 10,000 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean ?"

with "A good start !", not "Evidence !".

Re:Dangerous precedent being set

[delirium of disorder (701392)]

"FU and the virtual horse you rode in on" to Linden Labs in regards to this letter -- especially the final sentence This license may be modified, addended, or revoked at any time by Linden Lab in its sole discretion.

Lighten up, it's a joke!

Re:Dangerous precedent being set

[creysoft (856713)]

They acknowledge First Life's inherent right to parody several times, even jokingly stated that they were insulted by the idea that their lawyers WOULDN'T recognize such a right. The only "license" here is a license for the derivative trademark, which they note "may require a license." Notice they didn't say "does require a license." It's more, "Hey, we think this probably falls under fair use. But just in case it doesn't, and anyone ever hassles you about it, here's a license saying you can use it anyway."

The final clause is standard CYA language. If, for example, First Life started using their derivative logo to do something damaging to Second Life's reputation, Second Life's lawyers may look into it, and if, in fact, the logo is infringing, they may revoke the license. Surely you can't reasonably expect them to grant them a perpetual, non-revokable license to do anything they want with a very slightly modified logo?

The whole thing's basically a joke anyway, to let everyone know that they know about First Life, and are 100% OK with it. It's also a cheap jab at companies with less sense of humor.

Re:Dangerous precedent being set

[networkBoy (774728)]

It's also a cheap jab at companies with less sense of humor.

So, like all of them?

Re:

[suv4x4 (956391)]

The parody site operator of getafirstlife.com should reject this letter immediately. How many companies in the future will start referring to this action as a basis to stop "fair use"? i.e., "Hey, we didn't provide you with a proceed-and-permit letter.

You should get to know Jack Thompson. My gut tells me you'll do incredible things together.

Re:

[Falladir (1026636)]

"companies in the future will start referring to this action"

I'm no lawyer, but I aren't precedents set by courts? The actions of a company's legal team have no effect on the status quo.

Re:

[syousef (465911)]

Actually they'd be right to ignore it. If they accept it or reject or respond in any way they legitimise it. In any case being granted permission does not set a precedent that you MUST be granted permission. If my boss tells me I can go to the doctor if I'm seriously ill and need urgent medical attention it does not mean that if he doesn't give permission the next time I'm ill that I can't go. No license needed to be granted here. I believe parody is protected under US laws, though I'm not a US citizen and

Re:Dangerous precedent being set

[anagama (611277)]

The parody site operator of getafirstlife.com should reject this letter immediately. How many companies in the future will start referring to this action as a basis to stop "fair use"?

Wow. Layoff the paranoia pipe a bit. Everyone knows that parody is OK. It has been for years. Companies have been parodied on Saturday Night Live since the stoner age. If they were gonna get the fair use provisions relating to parody changed, they would have done it already.

Secondly, if we want companies to be good citizens and respectful of individual's rights, should not also individuals respect companies when the company does something right? I do. I went to second life from the first life page and signed up for an account. Who woulda thought they actually have a linux version (alpha) for the game?

What I see is a company that is not full of pricks, plus they supply a linux version of the game. Isn't that what (we linux users at least) have been saying would be great? I say that's worthy of my support so I flipped them a few bucks.

Re:Dangerous precedent being set

[vadim_t (324782)]

Bullshit.

1. It works. Everything but video works fine. Sure, it crashes once in a while, but so does the Windows one, so I don't think that's specific to the Linux version.

2. I have modified the source, and connected to the main grid using the compiled client.

Regarding whether they accept patches, not 100% sure there, but the latest version compiles on GCC 4.1 when the first releases didn't. It looks like they integrated fixes people made for that.

Re:Taken out of context

[Technician (215283)]

This license may be modified, addended, or revoked at any time by Linden Lab in its sole discretion.


This was taken out of context. It simply is in refrence to the online store selling items with the modified logo. If the site creator got out of line with the products with the modified logo, they simply reserve the right to revoke the license to use the logo. The fact they granted a license to use the mofified logo is without fees or royalty payments is very gracious.

Try using the Mickey Mouse logo in a modified form on your website in a paradoy and sell products with the logo. I doubt the Disney lawyers have a sense of humor regarding selling products with a Mickey logo.