Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments
Search

News for nerds, stuff that matters

Slashdot Log In

Log In

Create Account  |  Retrieve Password

Rockstar's Road To Ruin

Posted by Zonk on Thu Mar 29, 2007 04:29 PM
from the was-a-nice-ride dept.
Businesses Government Entertainment Games Politics
Via GamePolitics, an exerpt from an upcoming Wired print magazine article on Rockstar's slide from grace. The article outlines a number of the problems we've discussed here on the site, such as their numerous lawsuits, the 'Hot Coffee' scandal, and stock-option problems. At four pages it's only a teaser for the longer article in the magazine, but it's still very much worth taking a look. "The irony is thick: The company that defined virtual criminality is now associated with the real thing. Rockstar and Take-Two executives declined to answer questions for this article, but their rich and troubled story is revealed by official documents and former employees. It seems the blokes forgot that in life, as in Grand Theft Auto, there are repercussions for the choices you make."
+ -
story

Related Stories

[+] House Calls for Investigation Into Rockstar Games 215 comments
Spad writes "The BBC is reporting that the U.S. House of Representatives has overwhelmingly voted for an FTC investigation into Rockstar Games following the GTA:SA 'Sex scandal'. Their basic premise is that Rockstar intentionally deceived the ESRB in order to 'peddle sexually explicit material to our youth'." Gamespot has coverage as well. From the BBC article: "The release of Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas was widely anticipated, but an adults-only rating would have severely limited its sales in retail outlets...It appears that the publisher has blatantly circumvented the rules in order to peddle sexually explicit material to our youth, and they should be held accountable. A company cannot be allowed to profit from deceit."
[+] Rockstar Strikes Back 81 comments
Eurogamer is reporting on a little humor that Rockstar is having at Jack Thompson's expense. From the article: "Rockstar has just launched a new website for forthcoming PSP game GTA: Liberty City Stories, which features a spoof email from 'JT@CitizensUnitedNegatingTechnology'. 'The Internet is an unambiguous evil,' the email reads. 'The only things worse than the Internet are computer games and liberals ... Only last week, I was using the Internet to look up some information for my 15 year old niece, who is a keen water skier and state wide sailor ... Trust me when I say this - searching under the subject matter "Teenage girls water sports" is not for the faint hearted.'" The article goes on to describe some frantic arm waving from the parody's target.
[+] Rockstar Vienna Closes Its Doors 88 comments
slashflood writes "Rockstar has unexpectedly closed its Rockstar Vienna development office, particularly known for its Grand Theft Auto Xbox conversion, laying off more than 100 employees. Confirmation has come in the form of a weblog post by Rockstar Vienna employee Jurie Horneman: 'This morning, as I came into work, I was greeted by security guards. It turned out Take-Two has closed their Rockstar Vienna office, effective immediately, 'due to the challenging environment facing the video game business and our Company during this platform transition'.'"
[+] FTC and Rockstar Settle Hot Coffee Dispute 295 comments
kukyfrope writes "The FTC and Rockstar/Take-Two have reached a settlement surrounding the 'Hot Coffee' mod for GTA: San Andreas that will serve to prevent future incidents. The FTC has stated that Rockstar and Take-Two must disclose all content to the ESRB when rating games, or face an $11,000 fine per violation if undisclosed content is discovered. 'Parents have the right to rely on the accuracy of the entertainment rating system. We allege that Take-Two and Rockstar's actions undermined the industry's own rating system and deceived consumers,' commented Lydia Parnes, Director of the FTC's Bureau of Consumer Protection."
[+] Employee Exodus at Rockstar Games? 52 comments
hammersuit writes "GameDaily Biz is reporting on recent troubles at Rockstar Games. 'A difficult console transition, FTC investigation, re-rating of GTA: San Andreas and more have put Rockstar and Take-Two in an unenviable position. We've received word that in addition to people who left because of studio closures, even more either fled or quit. Are Rockstar employees jumping ship or is this just a result of cost-cutting at Take-Two?'"
[+] Rockstar Finally Wins a Lawsuit 30 comments
Eurogamer is reporting that Rockstar Games has finally won a lawsuit. It's an important one too, involving a strip club's objection to its appearance (in satirized form) in the streets of San Andreas. From the article: "Rockstar conceded that its artists worked from photographs of real life LA locations - including the Play Pen - when designing the game, but argued that they 'changed the names, building designs and overall look and feel of the locations... To make them fit the virtual, cartoon-style world of San Andreas and the series' irreverent tone.' Rockstar also referred to the lawsuit MCA Records successfully defended over the song Barbie Girl, when the judge ruled that trademark rights 'do not entitle the owner to quash an unauthorized use of the mark by another who is communicating ideas or expressing points of view.'"
[+] Take Two's Board Ousted by Shareholders 32 comments
Some would view it as vaguely ironic that, on the same day that the GTA IV trailer makes its debut, the Take-Two board is finally ousted in the culmination of a nasty inter-corporate feud. CNN's Chris Morris reports on the latest development in the company's saga: "The accounting and ethical quagmires that have bogged down the company for the past few years are likely to disappear. And Take-Two will almost certainly become a leaner company, shedding divisions and canceling games ... The arrival of a new board may also ratchet down the public scrutiny of the company a few notches - but that respite from the spotlight's glare might not last as long as they would like. You see, the thing that makes this game maker different from the rest of the industry is its rebellious streak. It's something that drives opponents insane and causes mass migraines in the boardroom, but without it, Take-Two wouldn't be the force it is today."
[+] News: Take Two Interactive Under SEC Investigation 13 comments
MrPinstripeCom writes "Take Two interactive is now officially under investigation by the SEC. They've agreed to allow regulators to subpoena and investigate their practices with current and former employees as it relates to stock options purchases and disbursements. 'The company was the subject of an informal, non-public, investigation into allegations of back-dating stock option grants last year, while a separate internal investigation by Take-Two also found evidence of improprieties. The scandal ultimately led to the departure of then chairman and CEO Ryan Brant, who was singled out by the SEC investigation and was forced to pay $7.3 million in "disgorgement, interest and penalties" at the New York State Supreme Court.'"
[+] Manhunt 2 Ban Fallout, Game Rated AO By ESRB 384 comments
In the wake of yesterday's announcement of a UK ban on Manhunt 2 , Rockstar has registered its disappointment at the BBFC's decision. The company simply stated that they 'respect those who have different opinions about the horror genre and videogames as a whole, but we hope they will also consider the opinions of the adult gamers for whom this product is intended.' Meanwhile, here in the US, the ESRB has given the game the dreaded AO rating, for adults only. If you're unfamiliar with this seldom-seen designation, it's essentially the 'kiss of death' for a title at retail; a number of popular videogame outlets refuse to carry titles with that rating. MTV's Stephen Totilo has a lengthy and considered discussion of these proceedings. "For 'Manhunt 2,' signs pointed to the title being both less and more extreme than the first. Gone from press previews were mentions of snuff films and Directors. Instead, a more traditionally violent video game premise: one man's struggle to stay alive in an insane asylum gone mad."
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.

Rockstar's Road To Ruin 50 Comments More /

 Full
 Abbreviated
 Hidden
More
Loading... please wait.
  • Rockstar.

    Live fast. Die young. Leave a good looking corpse.

  • Road to ruin? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by syrion (744778) on Thursday March 29 2007, @04:39PM (#18535513)
    As far as I am aware, Rockstar still makes blockbuster games which afford them a healthy income. How, precisely, does this constitute "ruin?"

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      I think the writer just chose the phrase "road to ruin" for the dramatic/alliterative effect. The article itself is more evenhanded, and does not imply the company is totally stuffed just yet.

      And for the record, Take-Two didn't make a healthy income in 2006, they lost over 100 million dollars (though one suspects they'll likely make it back in spades when GTA IV is released).
      • Take Two loses money because they publish nothing that sells outside of Firaxis (Civilization) and Rockstar games. Everything else is somewhere between the bargain bin and B-grade.
        • Right because Rockstar and 2K Sports don't sell anything...
          • 2K sports is actually not particularly successful compared to Rockstar and Firaxis. (If you notice, I included both of those in the post you replied to.) They come in second to EA on every title.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by PingSpike (947548)
      I was thinking the same thing. For all their controversy, it seems like they're doing fine.

      Plus, all that stink over hot coffee and the like probably made a lot of people want their games even more. The forbidden fruit always tastes sweeter.

  • Funny thing is... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by hrrY (954980) on Thursday March 29 2007, @04:41PM (#18535547)
    I don't know of many game dev house's that have succeeded in creating a game that can combine aspects of multiple genre's(racing, rpg, action, 3D 3rd person, sex) into 1 game seamlessly and have it be fun at the same time(see universal combat for reference about that approach failing)So whatevs, there problems are mostly based around their success(s)in that regard and that's what sell games. What's going on with them is a reflection how our society treats things that are successful against the better wishes of those who dictate the status quo.
    • I don't know of many game dev house's that have succeeded in creating a game that can combine aspects of multiple genre's(racing, rpg, action, 3D 3rd person, sex) into 1 game seamlessly

      I don't know of ANY game dev houses that have ever done that. The GTA series does some of those well, but there isn't much of an RPG aspect.

      The main thing that disappointed me when I finally tried GTA games is how surprisingly non-interactive the world is. 99% of the buildings you can't enter, the people are just scen
      • I never really got the GTA allure. I actually purchase Vice City, but never got hooked. KotOR on the other hand is thoroughly engrossing. I still haven't managed to successfully play through on evil though..

  • Blah. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by MeanderingMind (884641) on Thursday March 29 2007, @04:41PM (#18535555) Homepage Journal
    I wouldn't care if Rockstar lived or died, except that Jack Thompson would take the latter as a personal victory no matter the circumstances.
    • I'm sure Jack would take Rockstar living as a personal victory somehow, because he's a giant self-aggrandizing spinning ball of cook.
    • isnt it written somewhere that as people of the internet its our highest law that this can never happen? Jack Thompson cannot be allowed to win, that leads to the religious right of the force...
  • If owning a billion-dollar game franchise is ruin, I'd like to be ruined too.

    Take Two's management woes are not automatically Rockstar's problem. They're a subsidiary, not a department.

    • Re:Ruin, eh? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by badasscat (563442) <basscadet75@NOSpam.yahoo.com> on Thursday March 29 2007, @06:40PM (#18537161) Homepage
      Take Two's management woes are not automatically Rockstar's problem. They're a subsidiary, not a department.

      It's the same company. Read the article. Rockstar is not just a subsidiary, and the problems are not only Take 2's.

      I used to work there, so I'm saying this from first-hand experience as well. The article is pretty much dead-on, and while a lot of the "former employees" are not named, their quotes sound 100% believable to me (and I have my suspicions who they are).

      Implicit in the article but not fully explored is the fact that nearly 100% of the company has turned over in the past 4 years (including myself). Some of us left because we saw the writing on the wall, others for personal reasons. But almost all of the people that made that company what it originally was are now gone.
      • Did anyone ever leave because of how terrible the animators were? Or did the animators ever leave because of their own shame?

  • They deserve props, no matter what (Score:3, Interesting)

    by dave562 (969951) on Thursday March 29 2007, @05:18PM (#18536087) Journal
    I still remember playing the first GTA, initially in standard VGA and then with the mystical "new" 3dfx card. It was by far one of the most entertaining games out at the time. I completely hated GTA2, but everything from GTA3 onward just got better and better. The guys at Rockstar created something that gamers have wanted forever... a huge world that you can run around and do pretty much anything in. I'm still convinced that if anyone came out with an MMO like GTA where you could progress to the point of being a crime boss and running portions of the city, they'd have a huge hit on their hands.
    • It'd be a tough game to make though. It'd likely end up being mostly PvP gang warfare. Mostly because nobody would want to play the everyday normal people/businesses/etc that would have to make up the bulk of the population in a game like that. You could try and fill it out with NPC's, but I don't think the AI is there to make it really work. I don't think it's feasible to have a virtual city with a bunch of virtual residents realistically react to the actions of a sizeable amount of players.

      I guess you cou
      • I agree with what you have to say about the AI. It just seems like a huge coding challenge to get a bunch of AI NPCs to react in any sort of sane way to players who pull out guns and start blasting away at each other.
        • Well, you could always just have the NPC's panic and run away. But imagine having NPC's negotiate the sort of schemes that a crime boss might be interested in getting involved in. It can work in a single player game like GTA because there can be a pre-written script that presents certain choices to an individual and only has to react to one person, but that system can't really be scaled, because the game designers can't accurately predict interactions between different players.

          An example that might be helpf

        • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

          by zrobotics (760688)
          Personally, I think something like this would be fairly easy to do. The average pedestrian NPC's in GTA react to shootings in a perfectly sane manner-they scream and run away. Yes, it would involve a lot of pvp warfare, but that's the whole point of such a game. If there were different character classes-I.E. bodyguards, crooked cops, hitmen, etc., it would keep things fairly well balanced. If there were multiple 'gangs' in a city, the territory each gang controlled could be controlled by how much money they

          • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

            by dave562 (969951)
            What I would really like to see is a system setup where players are allowed to establish groups, buy property and then generate money from that property. The money generation should be tied to NPCs. Some NPCs could work at the property itself, where as others could be sent out on pre-scripted missions. The NPCs who generate money inside the facility should do so at a much slower rate than those who venture outside of the relative safety of the facility. For example, a property might come with a courier.
      • ...mostly because nobody would want to play the everyday normal people/businesses/etc that would have to make up the bulk of the population in a game like that.

        Yeah, and nobody would ever fish for hours on end to catch a specific type of fish in a video game either...
        • For the most part people don't fish because they like to fish. They fish because they need money, they need specific types of fish for buffs, or they're after Mr Pinchy.
      • People play in Second Life, and there are plenty of gold farmers in other online games. Make the role of an average citizen/shopkeeper in this world so that there is some miniscule financial reward, like the gold farmers get, and you'll have plenty of people willing to play!
    • No doubt they would have a hit. That would make for a great game and I'm sure a large chunk of the gaming community would hit euphoria over it. The problem lies in making such a game balanced for the muscle in the organization so that they are still entertained. You also need to figure out how to handle an MMO composed entirely of complex cityscapes with hundreds or thousands of players in close proximity. The GTA game design is a thing of beauty. I'm not sure how accurate it is to say that Rockstar is
      • You're mystified by the violence, I'm mystified by the sex. I can understand why people have an aversion to violence. In my own life, I started training kung fu about five years. The more I learn, the less I want to fight. I think some of my own aversion comes with age, and the fact that it takes longer to heal as you grow older. I think it's all to easy to cultivate a blaise attitude in kids where they don't respect someone else's mortality long before they have even begun to grasp how mortal they are

  • Too soon to call (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Belgand (14099) <belgand AT planetfortress DOT com> on Thursday March 29 2007, @05:54PM (#18536659) Homepage
    I think this is well before the time that anyone can say Rockstar has failed. Since the Hot Coffee controversy they haven't released any really high-end games. Sure there have been a few titles, but mainly just portable GTA3 spin-offs and other properties that aren't nearly as hot. Bully, their last controversial title, didn't make much of a splash when it finally arrived. It received generally above-average reviews (and is on my personal wishlist still), but the brewing complaints from the usual groups seem to have backed off.

    If GTA4 comes out and does poorly then there will be the argument that Rockstar is losing it, but otherwise... well, it's pretty heavily anticipated.
    • Since the Hot Coffee controversy they haven't released any really high-end games.

      Both Bully and The Warriors were supposed to be "high-end" games. (In fact, everything Rockstar releases is supposed to be "high-end" - they're the label Take 2 slaps on its high-end franchises. What isn't released under the Rockstar label gets the Global Star or 2K labels.) The fact that they didn't make much of a splash is a big part of the problem.

      Rockstar basically pays for its existence with GTA, which is what it was f
      • While I would definitely agree that GTA is the only series of note from Rockstar, I wouldn't claim that just because their PSP versions (and the PS2 ports of them) of GTA didn't do very well there's any problem with them in the future.

        I'll also gladly acknowledge that being tied to one single franchise isn't a good idea for a company. Even among other companies who have blockbuster success with a limited number of titles in a contiguous franchise iD kinda has two or three franchises and Blizzard has three (

  • I just saw the trailer for GTA IV (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Jeppe Salvesen (101622) on Thursday March 29 2007, @06:01PM (#18536753)
    .. and whatever they have done in the past: If the gameplay is as good as the trailer, then they'll become the new Google with unlimited money so that they can buy all the lawfirms and all the judges in the world!!!!

  • Hot Cofee "Scandal"? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by nog_lorp (896553) * on Thursday March 29 2007, @08:15PM (#18537985)
    I wouldn't call it the Hot Coffee "Scandal" so much as the Hot Coffee Farse. Disregarding that fact that ILLEGAL reverse engineering is required to view the Hot Coffee minigame, the original minigame itself contains NO NUDITY. If clothed people bumping into eachother should be marked 18+, kids won't be able to buy many videogames anymore. Nudity is acheived by editing the models as well as enabling the minigame in the first place. Saying RockStar is somehow at fault here means every software/game publisher ever is just as liabe - you can add pornography to anything. The whole deal is stupid for so many other reasons as well - horrific violence is ok but small amounts of sex isn't? What the fuck. How many people do you expect to beat to death with a baseball bat in your life? Now compare that to how many people you expect to have sex with. Point made. Also, no "concerned parent" can whine about this. "Oh my god, with GTA:SA and unrestricted internet axis, my children can see porn!". The internet has porn, RockStar is not at fault for that either, in case you wanted to claim it was. ~nog_lorp
  • Microsoft should least survive a slashdotting:
    http://assets.xbox.com/en-us/games/g/grandtheftaut oiv/grandtheftautoiv.zip [xbox.com]

    Rockstar, well their website doesn't usually:
    http://media.rockstargames.com/flies/1280x720.zip [rockstargames.com]

    Streaming the 720p trailer to an xbox360 looks really good, here's some more HD wmv files:
    http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/musi candvideo/hdvideo/contentshowcase.aspx [microsoft.com]

  • Let's check the mainstream media (Score:3, Interesting)

    by sesshomaru (173381) on Friday March 30 2007, @05:40AM (#18541221) Journal
    Ah, for an unbiased view (I kid, of course), let's check the mainstream media:

    SAN FRANCISCO (AP) - A feisty shareholder revolt at Take-Two Interactive Software Inc. this week offed nearly as many executives as virtual characters in the video game company's violent titles.

    Financial analysts and child advocates said only a thorough purging at the top would reverse the accounting and ethical lapses at the publisher of the popular, murder-your-way-to-victory video game "Grand Theft Auto." With a new CEO and several new board members now leading the company, that's what they got.

    "If you look at the content of what these guys have distributed, it's so offensive and inappropriate. It's not surprising to learn they had committed massive acts of fraud at the board and CEO level," said James Steyer, CEO and founder of San Francisco-based multimedia ratings group Common Sense Media Inc., a nonprofit that rates video games and other content for violence and other factors. "The chickens have come home to roost for this company _ and I say good riddance to these guys."

    ...snip...

    Financial analysts have criticized Take-Two for relying too heavily on relatively uncreative sequels, sports games and bloodthirsty "first-person shooters." While so-called hardcore games remain popular with teens and young men, new online genres _ trivia quizzes, word games and multiplayer role-playing games _ are catching on with women, older players and millions of mobile phone users.

    Child advocacy groups and legislators are Take-Two's biggest foes, complaining that the company produces the industry's most violent, mean-spirited games.

    In "Grand Theft Auto," players shoot pedestrians and police with reckless abandon. Another hit is "Bully," about a slingshot-wielding 15-year-old at Bullworth Academy boarding school, whose motto is "Canis Canem Edit," Latin for "dog eat dog."

    Take-Two is best known for a version of "Grand Theft Auto" that included a hidden, lewd scene that sparked a 2005 congressional uproar. -- Investors Laud Video Game Co.'s Upheaval [att.net]

    Let's see, this AP article could have been written by Jack Thompson. It is extremely poor journalism. Has Rockstar ever even published an FPS? These are the people (AP) who many people rely on for information on world affairs, and in helping to determine who to elect into office, and their "facts" resemble the ones that used to be put forth by Cotton Mather [wikipedia.org] at the average Salem witch-trial.

    Prediction, when Grand Theft Auto 4 comes out, expect these same "child advocacy" censorship groups to be saying, "Looks like Take Two didn't learn their lesson."

    I forget, what video games did Enron make?

    • Won't you please think of the children of the Rockstar employees?

    • Re:Ironic? I think not... (Score:5, Funny)

      by PylonHead (61401) on Thursday March 29 2007, @05:24PM (#18536181) Homepage Journal
      it seems to be a natural thing that a company that sells the glorification of violence and criminality would eventually become entangled in criminality.

      I don't see this. You're saying that when someone creates a work of fiction that glorifies criminality, it makes them more likely to engage in criminal activity?

      So by this logic, Martin Scorsese is probably up to no good? Perhaps he's beating someone to death with his Oscar as I type this?

      • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

        by Anonymous Coward
        Exactly. Scorsese beating someone with his Oscar is nothing, though. The shit is really going to hit the fan when iD Software manages to open that portal to Hell.
      • So by this logic, Martin Scorsese is probably up to no good? Perhaps he's beating someone to death with his Oscar as I type this?

        I dunno, but I hear Quentin Tarentino and Uma Thurman have been on an international killing spree for quite a while now!

      • So by this logic, Martin Scorsese is probably up to no good? Perhaps he's beating someone to death with his Oscar as I type this?

        Why do you think they took so long to recognize the man? Would you hand the guy who made Goodfellas a sharp metal object?
      • Well, after reading books like "The Forgotten Soldier" and "Panzer Commander" I found myself stealing a Tiger from a WWII museum and invading Russia.

        I just wish this "watching/reading about it leads to it" rule worked for sex though.

    • Result, not a cause... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by PhoenixOne (674466) on Thursday March 29 2007, @07:47PM (#18537779)

      Beware of putting the cart in front of the horse.

      These people had "colorful" pasts to begin with, creating and selling video games about criminality didn't make them more criminal. More likely, they picked a topic they understood and/or admired.

      Same thing with video game players. Look at the past of any crazy kid that shoots up a school. They didn't start with violent video games, more likely they had abusive parents, history of picking fights, violent friends, etc. These kids are obviously attracted to violent video games, but that's a result not a cause.

      Video games are a long way from being the brain-washing/reprogramming tool the media makes them out to be.

      • Video games are a long way from being the brain-washing/reprogramming tool the media makes them out to be.
        More like... Video games are a long way from being the brain-washing/reprogramming tool the media became decades ago.
    • OH wait... movies could NEVER affect real world behavior... I keep forgetting that... :rolling eyes:

      Call me when Hollywood executives start serving prison sentences for crimes committed after being encouraged by movies that glorified violence and criminality.

All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective owners. Comments are owned by the Poster. The Rest © 1997-2009 Geeknet, Inc.