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Rock Band As the Costly New MTV?

Posted by Zonk on Wed Apr 04, 2007 03:34 PM
from the we-are-indeed-getting-the-band-back-together dept.
Entertainment Games
With the announcement of Rock Band, fans of the Guitar Hero series are well and truly pleased. Despite the fact that GH controllers will work with the game, with all the peripherals the game is going to be ridiculously expensive, assuming you want to get an entire band together. "Specifically, the 'Rock Band Wireless Guitar Controller' will retail at $79.99 (40 quid approx), the standard 'Rock Band Guitar Controller' at $59.99 (30 quid approx), the 'Rock Band Drum Set' $79.99 and the 'Rock Band Microphone' at $39.99 (20 quid approx)." Beyond that, though, Kotaku's Brian Crecente takes a look at the game in a broader context, wondering aloud if the game will be a new version of MTV ... or at least, a new version of the way MTV used to be. Introducing new bands, songs, and sounds to consumers via videogames seems like a fairly natural way of trying things.
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[+] Guitar Hero Developer Announces Rock Band 71 comments
figgen writes "Gamers and music fans have been waiting on details for the next Harmonix project, now that the company has been purchased. The development team behind Guitar Hero announced Rock Band via USA Today. The title is coming to the PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360, and will expand on the concept by adding singing and drumming into the mix. 'With MTV as a partner, Harmonix was able to sign deals with the major forces in the music publishing industry and has access to the master recordings of music from popular artists. Electronics Arts is also involved, and will use its global reach to help distribute the game.' GameSpot had a chance to sit down with Harmonix's Alex Rigopulos and EA Partners' David DeMartini to talk about the upcoming title."
[+] Rock Band Bundle Only Option Available This Year 68 comments
Via 1up, an interview at the site bits bytes pixels and sprites with the folks at Harmonix clarifies a great deal about Rock Band . The co-op multiplayer rhythm game is due out before the end of the year, and at least in 2007 the only way to get it will be the $169 bundle pack. There's also some information on the game's downloadable content, which sounds like it will be considerable: "Harmonix is committed to providing gamers with a wide selection of new content and promises that one week from launch The Who's famous album "Who's Next" will be made available for download. Harmonix has also scheduled new content to be released every week until the end of 2007 to keep the game fresh throughout the holiday season."
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Rock Band As the Costly New MTV? 50 Comments More /

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  • I don't think this is specific to Guitar Hero. EA has been including/promoting new music in this way for years through their EA TRAX series (Yellowcard, the bravery, etc) which are included in games like the Burnout series.

    Videogames and interactive media in general are the new MTV, not just one game.
  • I'm really interested in the game, since I play drums and guitar. It could be a lot of fun.

    If it's just another dressed up "Simon" like Guitar Hero is, screw it. If it's more "real", then I'm all there. I do hope they allow midi hookups, though :)
    • I play drums and guitar, and I cannot imagine why anyone who can do so would want to do so "fake" in front of the TV.

      Sure, these games are good for the market of people who would normally buy a $50 guitar and never learn... but really...

      They're even more pointless than sports games. At least there are physical, social, and weather barriers stopping you from playing real basketball...

      • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

        by Seumas (6865)
        I can't understand the excitement over these games either. If you're going to put hours and hours and hours into pretending to play an instrument, why not put those hours into actually learning to play the instrument?

        On the other hand, pretending to play an instrument and "is this the new MTV" really are a couple sentiments that belong together.

        • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

          by jandrese (485)
          On the other hand, it's a way for someone like me (who is tone deaf) to pretend to play a guitar and not sound completely horrible. If 4 years of band practice didn't solve my tin ear, but I can still rock out in Guitar Hero.
      • I play 'real' bass, but I like guitar hero because I find it's a really good way to work on timing and rhythm without having to worry about the rest of the physics of the guitar. And it's fun too.
      • I tend to agree...GH seems like more of an exercise in reflexes set to music, but if you are either 1. not a guitar player or 2. are, but don't consider this an extension of playing guitar, then I can see how it could be enjoyable (caveat: this opinion was formed playing GH at Best Buy for 10 minutes).

        There was a game a decade or so ago called, I think, Mr Bones? It had 6 or 7 stock riffs that you controlled with the keypad, and you had to hit the buttons in a sequence that was musically 'pleasing' (the tim
        • That's not what I said at all, and I even addressed the point you make, but nice flame AC! Keep up the good work!

              • Why Guitar Hero is fun, from a former musician (Score:4, Insightful)

                by jchenx (267053) on Thursday April 05 2007, @04:00AM (#18617803) Journal

                1. I don't see why anyone who knows how to play these instruments would want to play fake instruments. That was my main point.
                2. I can only understand playing fake instrument games if you are the type who wouldn't want to learn the real thing. Inferred from #1.
                3. I explicitly pointed out the difference between other games and instrument games.

                That was my original post in a nutshell.

                If you're going to sit indoors moving your hands on a fake guitar, why not do the real thing? To play paintball or do kung fu you need physical stamina, you need to get off your fat ass, and you need to find people (aka friends) to partake in the activity with you. You need absolutely none of that to learn an instrument.
                The big thing you're missing is the time involved in having fun with these activities.

                As someone who knows how to play various instruments (having been in band/orchestra for many years), I will say that playing an instrument when you're good at it, can be a lot of fun. However, there's also the years upon years of experience of practice that it takes. And even then, it's obvious that most folks just won't ever have the talent that rock stars have.

                On the other hand, with much less practice, I can play a video game that simulates the skill involved in playing a musical instrument. It's immersive (crowds cheering for me) and I'm playing actual songs that I like (versus "Row row row your boat" for the first few weeks while learning a real instrument). Furthermore, since it's easy for me to pick up and learn, it's probably easy for my friends as well. So, in short time, my buddy and I can get in some awesome, and fun, guitar duos.

                Of course Guitar Hero II should not be an actual replacement for learning guitar, but it was never meant to be. Just because it's impractical in that sense, though, doesn't mean it's a stupid idea of a game.

                On a personal note, I have noticed that a lot of my fellow former-musician friends also have taken a liking to Guitar Hero. Your comments seem to imply that we'd be the first to realize that a game like Guitar Hero is a waste of time. It's actually the opposite. Since we've all understand how much time and energy it took to master our respective instruments (for myself, it was the violin and the trumpet), we know that it can take months, if not years, to get good enough at the guitar to even come close to playing some of the well-known rock songs. The decision ultimately becomes quite simple. I'll take rocking with Van Halen in only a few hours, thank-you-very-much.

    • Re:Depends... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Mathonwy (160184) on Wednesday April 04 2007, @04:07PM (#18611823)
      Ok, two things.

      Number one: You KNOW that they're not going to allow midi hookups. Or at least I feel you should know, if you're thinking about it much. Given the history of gaming and peripherals, I'd rate that as VERY wistful thinking.

      But on to your other point, of hoping it is more "real"... How "real" is it exactly that you want? That you have to actually play a real instrument well? (Which is what it sounds like you're moving towards?) If you are a person capable of doing that (which it sounds like you are) then you don't NEED THIS as a game.

      The purpose of most games is for a chance to pretend that you are something you're not, and act under a different set of rules than normal. Counterstrike, you get to pretend to be a swat-team member or a terrorist. Normally society frowns on people running around with guns and shooting each other. But here's a make-believe way we can try it out and have fun!

      Well, guitar hero is for people to pretend that they can play guitars and are rock stars. It serves its purpose remarkably well. It is SQUARELY aimed at people who can't play guitar, but enjoy the fantasy of being on a stage, "wailing" on their "axe". I think it is safe money that "Band" will be similar, allowing some game-mechanic that maps well onto music, so that people can pretend to be playing in a band. (The only toss up is the vocal, which I'm expecting will be sharing a lot of technology from kareoke machines.)

      The thing though is... The fact that its not more "real" isn't its weakness, but its strength. It puts a plausible, rock-feeling experience into the hands of a bunch of people who wouldn't otherwise get one.

      If you actually ARE one of the people who can play drums and guitar, then you don't NEED this game to be more real. If you want the next level up for reality, then all you have to do is go find a couple of similar people and make a REAL band, which as people seem to never tire of pointing out, is far more rewarding anyway.
      • You have some valid points there -

        I know midi is way out there - but it would be fun :D

        I'm looking for something that's more like the experience of playing Tekken at an arcade, less the experience of playing it at home. The GH controller is cheesy, but still sorta gets the idea going. Like the duckhunt gun, it gets the job done and it's sorta fun. Playing FPS games with a standard controller is really lame. I just have this dread thinking of the rockband drum kit. What, is it a little controller with 4 or 5
        • What, is it a little controller with 4 or 5 brightly colored buttons, ala Simon or Mastermind? That would suck.

          I have trouble imagining it being much more, maybe something as sophisticated as the Donkey Kong Konga bongos with one little drum as the snare and a couple toms little bass drum. I have a hard time believing it would even resemble a drum kit's true diversity at only $80.
          • You could probably get at least a basic drum kit [wikipedia.org] going at that price using the cheap parts they use already. Three toms, a snare, a bass, high-hat, and crash and ride cymbals. Just think along the style of electronic drums except they won't be as extendable obviously.

            Now if they did allow extensions or at least a MIDI input, us musicians could plug in and have even more fun! :D

      • Well, guitar hero is for people to pretend that they can play guitars and are rock stars. It serves its purpose remarkably well. It is SQUARELY aimed at people who can't play guitar, but enjoy the fantasy of being on a stage, "wailing" on their "axe".

        Many of us who play guitar still really love Guitar Hero. Yes, it's totally different, but in a ridiculously fun way that allows you to share your hobby with people with no discernible musical talent.

        ... and to actually be able to play lead on Free

    • The thing about Guitar Hero is that you are just matching buttons to elements on a screen. That is what makes it not really very "real"...

      But if you played earlier games from Harmonix like Frequency, they supported modes that really did let you create music. You had fewer options note-wise than with a full keyboard, but many tracks of instruments - you could come up with some really different stuff that way. That's what I expect to see out of Rock Band, and even if it's fewer notes than you could get out
      • That's sorta what I was aiming for - GH1 was really sorta braindead. If the band one is a step up (not really towards reality, but more actual fun like GH2 is) I'm all for it.

        Like some people keep saying "why play guitar hero when you can play guitar" it's one of those "why play gran turismo when you can actually drive" things.
        Maybe because it's a game?
        Games are fun?

        • Like some people keep saying "why play guitar hero when you can play guitar" it's one of those "why play gran turismo when you can actually drive" things.
          Maybe because it's a game?
          Games are fun?

          Well, Guitar Hero is a far cry from a simulation (at the level that games like Flight Sim, Gran Turismo, and the like try to get to) of guitar playing. I'm fine if you want to say "It's a fun game," in the same way that arcade-style racing games are fun. But if someone is playing guitar hero "to get better at guitar" I think they'll likely find very few skills they develop in the game will transfer over.

          Also, I'd just like to point out that the difference in cost between "buying a video game + access

      • See, there's that too. I mean, I play guitar ok, but I certainly can't play Aces High, Killer Queen, or Howl at the Moon :D (though I drum better than I play guitar). The game aspect is just like anything else - it's there to expand your horizons for fun's sake.
        • *Bark at the moon - my bad lol

        • Aces High
          Seriously? Slow it down a bit and it's trivial [ultimate-guitar.com]. Once you've got the accuracy, it's easy to build up speed. OK, I'm hardly a shredder so I cheat with hammer-ons/pull-offs, but still.
          • I have difficulty with the solo - but yes, it is of course possible. I don't know that I'd call it "trivial" though. :) "I Love Rock and Roll" is trivial hehehe.
  • you forgot to throw in the $4.99 "Bic" controllers for the audience watching you. When a ballad comes on they need the proper "light and sway" technique!
  • So if games will be the new mtv, how long until geeks can get cheap laughs by saying "Thats like guitar hero 8 playing MUSIC"?

  • Prices are guesses... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by porcupine8 (816071) on Wednesday April 04 2007, @03:47PM (#18611533) Journal
    Harmonix hasn't confirmed any of the prices [gamespot.com] posted by EB/Gamestop. Not saying it won't be that expensive, but those prices are "pure speculation".
    • I don't think I'm giving too much away when I say that these prices aren't EB accidentally releasing info early. They really are complete out-of-the-blue guesses on their part.

      I really wish they'd wait until they had solid information before taking people's money. Oh well, that's their business model and it doesn't look to be changing any time soon.

  • YouRockTube (Score:3, Insightful)

    by biocute (936687) on Wednesday April 04 2007, @03:48PM (#18611539) Homepage
    Or for an additional $199.99, you put up a webcam and record your band in action, upload to YouTube, and that would be the new MTV.
    • No, that would be the current YouTube.

      To qualify as 'new MTV' it would have to retain its self-important focus on a brand that can be sold to the people who listen to pop music. MTV hasn't had anything to do with music itself since ... well... forever. New music in particular is largely unnecessary for MTV to function. Hell, they do better the further they lag behind new music.
  • But a retail nightmare.

    It looks great on paper, really great, but I don't think people are going to spend 2-300 dollars on a video game. Games with one unique peripheral have trouble catching on.

    This may be a huge flop.
    • Maybe, but I think the fact that you can play online with others will help offset that. If I were to get it I would probably just get the game with a guitar controller, which plenty of people have already done with the first two Guitar Hero games. Then I would go out and buy the other controllers as time went on. I can see that being a very successful business model.

    • Re:This is a gaming enthusiast's dream... (Score:4, Informative)

      by MonMotha (514624) on Wednesday April 04 2007, @03:58PM (#18611705)
      It's not unheard of in the world of Music games at all, which may explain why the genre has trouble with the US market. If you're familiar with Konami's Bemani series (which, I might add, has much of this functionality since Guitar Freaks and Drum Mania can be linked, and are in fact on the same disc when sold for the home market), expensive controllers are the way things work. A beatmania controller is about 7000Yen (~$70US) in Japan, and pop'n mini controllers are comparable. If you want *good* (so-called "Arcade Style"), full arcade size controllers, you can expect to drop upwards of $300 on a single controller for these games. A good controller for Drum Mania (a MIDI drum set) can cost over $1000! Even a cheap-o DDR pad will run you $25 here in the US. A good one is usually in the $75-120 range for foam insert based ones, and $200+ for a sturdy metal one.

      The Japanese are more gadget oriented than USians, though, and this may explain at least some of the success of the series in the Japanese market as compared with its difficulty here in the USA.

    • It looks great on paper, really great, but I don't think people are going to spend 2-300 dollars on a video game. Games with one unique peripheral have trouble catching on.

      Uhh, what!? Guitar Hero has "one unique peripheral" and it has not had any trouble catching on at all. In fact, it remains one of the most successful games of 2006/2007, despite it's high price tag. Then there's also the whole Dance Dance Revolution series, where the game comes with one dance pad for extra cost. That franchise is popular

  • Well... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Shadow Wrought (586631) * <shadow...wrought@@@gmail...com> on Wednesday April 04 2007, @03:54PM (#18611645) Homepage Journal
    Until you can include a box of vapid, angst ridden 20-somethings whining about themselves this will simply be unable to compete with the quality entertainment that is MTV.

  • Introducing new bands, songs, and sounds to consumers via videogames seems like a fairly natural way of trying things.

    Consumers exist to consume "content", that is, consume it passively. Since we're not talking about customers of Harmonix (i.e. the people buying Guitar Hero games), nor are we talking about gamers in general, we can't assume anything will be able to influence consumers that involve active entertainment.

    Never underestimate the apathy of consumers! Your customers, however, are more likely to enjoy learning about new bands they can listen to and perhaps go to concerts of and purchase albums of.

  • Let's all settle in for a couple hundred comments telling people to just learn the instruments! Every article I've ever read on Guitar Hero, etc. has been laden with that sort of drivel... Come on, the purpose of this game is to jump right into the experience without stumbling over "Mary Had A Little Lamb".

  • MySpace == next MTV (Score:3, Insightful)

    by bclark (858016) on Wednesday April 04 2007, @03:59PM (#18611709)
    In today's Penny Arcade, Tycho shared some similar thoughts about the game being a venue for new talent. http://www.penny-arcade.com/ [penny-arcade.com]

    I don't think it's very likely that Rock Band will include tools of a high enough quality to create serious music, especially since its a console game. Allowing people to upload their own songs requires tons of regulation (for obscenity, copyright infringement). It seems far too early to tout this game as the Next Big Thing for music. It'll be like Guitar Hero, with more instruments.

    Personally, I think the new MTV already exists in MySpace (and to a lesser extent YouTube). There have already been numerous artists whose popularity on these sites has landed them record deals. Its a better breeding ground for new bands: there is much more infrastructure for rated and discovering related talent to what you like, especially when you factor in that all the legitimate rock stars have MySpace pages for their bands. New music videos are premiered there. Concerts are announced "secretly" for MySpace fans, with tickets only purchasable via the site. And since MTV (and now MTV2) almost never show music videos any more, this is where people go to see them.

    • Actually, I read something regarding the whole idea of new bands getting discovered through MySpace. The conclusion was that it was NOT true. Nobody has picked up a record deal just because of their MySpace page - some artist who had signed record deals had their MySpace pages put up before they released anything, but they already had the deal and the backing before the page went up.

      And many major bands don't actually have MySpace pages - there are a considerable number that were started by fans or such.
    • I think you missed the point of the MTV = Rock Band thing... They're talking about bands being introduced to consumers THROUGH Rock Band's built-in songs, not people actually making their music through the game.
  • I can't wait to see someone hack a Real Doll into a USB Groupie.

  • As a musician who plays in bands (and, admittedly, sucks at Guitar Hero despite being able to blaze a few sweet solos on my real axe), this is kinda sad. The amount of money totalled to buy this game, console and peripherals could just be spent on buying cheapo instruments (like most musicians begin with) and forming a real band where the songs you play aren't controlled by a game. It's much more rewarding and has just done so much for me. Imagine forming a console-based band, it's the musical version of cy
    • "it's the musical version of cyber sex."

      Exactly why this was posted on /. !
    • Yeah, really. So the game and the controller cost $140. $120 will buy you a surprisingly decent Takamine acoustic. Add a cheap tuner, another set of strings, a strap, and picks (if you're into that), and you're maybe at $150.
    • Or perhaps I could take that money that would have gone into an instrument I'll mess with for a few months at most before sticking it in the closet and put it into a console which I'll use for years and a fun game. Said fun game I'll probably play at least as long as the instrument plus can invite my video game playing and non-instrument playing friends over to play, which may be more rewarding than sitting alone in my bedroom doing a bad job playing an instrument. After the fun of the game has worn off,
      • True, but you could just as easily apply that logic to getting a new game and sucking at it and giving up. The reward here is that you can be "that guy" at parties who gets out an acoustic guitar (everyone has one somewhere) and plays a few classics, rather than being all "just wait till I get my PS3, cables, converter jack, games and controllers and I'll show you guys how to rock!".

        I think your latter point about differing reasons is fair when applied to just Guitar Hero, but the notion of an entire band s

    • As a musician who plays in bands (and, admittedly, sucks at Guitar Hero despite being able to blaze a few sweet solos on my real axe), this is kinda sad. The amount of money totalled to buy this game, console and peripherals could just be spent on buying cheapo instruments (like most musicians begin with) and forming a real band where the songs you play aren't controlled by a game. It's much more rewarding and has just done so much for me. Imagine forming a console-based band, it's the musical version of cy

      • Believe me I totally understand how much fun it is to have fun with a group of people (insert your own pun here). I'm just speaking having played GH as a group and played with a *real* band - I know which one I prefer.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by cayenne8 (626475)
      "Calling something the "next MTV" should be considered an insult. MTV's history is pretty bad. Musically clueless and behind the times on many genres."

      Well, today, sure, but, back "in the day"...they actually did play music videos, and they were often pretty trend setting.

      Ah...the good old days of "I want my MTV..."

      *sigh*

    • During much, if not all, of the first five years of MTV, it was not a commercial success, in that advertising revenues did not defray costs. There were also other music video outlets, though the others were weekly programs (90 minutes late Friday nights on NBC) or three hour blocks on Friday and Saturday night (who had Night Flight, was that US Network?). At the time there was this concept of the world premiere video, which really meant that one channel would have it exclusively for a 6-13 week period (the

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