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Microsoft Bans Modified Xbox 360s From Xbox Live
Posted by
Zonk
on Fri May 18, 2007 07:24 AM
from the and-i'm-really-glad-they're-doing-it-too dept.
from the and-i'm-really-glad-they're-doing-it-too dept.
An anonymous reader writes "Microsoft has now officially started banning Xbox 360s that have had their DVD drive firmware modified from Live, possibly using information brought in by the Crackdown-originated Halo 3 beta downloads. Scene site forums have already collapsed under traffic, and Microsoft has officially confirmed that they are banning modded Xbox 360s to keep the online playing field fair and level."
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Hackers Dodge Xbox Live Shutout 71 comments
An Ars Technica post at their games column Opposable Thumbs points out that, despite Microsoft's best efforts, hacked Xbox 360s are once again playing on Xbox Live. "Steadfast in their pursuits, the hackers of the Xbox 360 scene have managed to best Microsoft's Xbox Live Banning protocol: a system of checks in place to identify hacked Xbox 360s and deny them access to the Xbox Live Network. The current method of hacking the 360 involves exploiting the firmware of the DVD drive (the preferable method), and this latest patch does just that. In fact, the creators are so confident in their breakthrough that the info file remarks that the new firmware 'defeats all current and some future Xbox Live detection attempts.'"
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When you buy hardware, you buy the hardware. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Missing the point. (Score:5, Insightful)
I say this as somebody that purchased a 360 less than a week ago, and loaded up the hacked firmware for my drive less than 24 hours ago.
Am I bummed? Not really. It's a private network, they can do whatever they like with it. Doing anything I want with my hardware sure as shit is my right, but I shouldn't expect other people to be forced to allow me to play on their servers like it's some base human right being violated.
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Re:Missing the point. (Score:4, Informative)
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Re:When you buy hardware, you buy the hardware. (Score:5, Informative)
The firmware hack did not allow you to do this. Since all code on the Xbox 360 (and PS3 for that matter), is signed and run through a hypervisor, for you to run a backup it needs to be identical to the original. Altering any of the code for wall hacks in Hallo 3 for example will change the result of the signing algorithm and the 360 will refuse to run it. The hypervisor was briefly compromised a while ago on the 360 but quickly patched (6 days I believe, so quicker than the file copying bug in vista). Using back ports of the previously hacked Xbox motherboard firmware it is possible to get a few things running such as preliminary XBMC and emulators (I'm not 100% on this maybe someone can confirm). However it is still not possible to run unsigned games.
Incidentally the method Microsoft used to detect the hack this time is very interesting. It was believed that the DVD drive firmware hack was un-detectable as well as un-patchable since Microsoft had no way of remotely upgrading or checking the firmware. A few weeks ago it was theorized that Microsoft could possibly pick up the difference in DVD read jitter between DVD-R media versus printed originals. You can kinda make out jitter by listening to the extra work a DVD drive does when reading a DVD-R compared to a printed DVD. Anyway a firmware patch was released for this purpose. It appears to not have worked however since reports are coming in that people are getting banned even with this latest patch. Currently its being theorized that possibly Microsoft are checking the read speed difference, between DVD-R and pressed DVD's. Data rates tend to drop slightly to my knowledge when reading DVD-R's, so this could be detected from the main 360 software. Others are speculating that Microsoft have just been data mining for the past few months and have just banned those they have picked up until the jitter patch was released.
Finally it is also interesting that Microsoft have only banned the detected Xbox console and not the Live account. They clearly want the hackers to spend more money buying more hardware off them. An interesting way of getting some lost revenue back.
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Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Everyone gets screwed when you steal a game. Let me give you a real world example:
First off, it's not just suits that you're stealing from- everyone in the company, from the programmers to the testers get bonuses- and that's based on the amount of time th
Re:When you buy hardware, you buy the hardware. (Score:5, Insightful)
No, with Live that's exactly what you do.
"You buy the physical hardware and you can do whatever you want to it."
Knock yourself out, but purchasing the hardware doesn't automatically give you the right to access Microsoft's network facilities on your terms rather than theirs.
Parent
Fair play (Score:4, Insightful)
There's nothing wrong with anti-piracy measures so long as they're unobtrusive and don't effect people with legitimate copies.
Re:Fair play (Score:5, Funny)
Don't worry. They used Windows Genuine Advantage as the trial run for this...
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Re:Fair play (Score:4, Informative)
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Fair? (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't see an problem with Microsoft banning people with DVD drives modified to play copied games. It makes it fair for the honest people who payed good money to play.
I'm an honest person who has paid good money to play, I resent the implication that just because I make backup copies for personal use I'm a criminal and end up being locked out of a subset of the console's functionality.
"We have stated in the past that customers can only enjoy access to the Xbox LIVE community through the use of a genuine, unmodified, Xbox console and we will continue to enforce this rule to ensure the integrity of our service, the protection of our partners and the benefits of our users."
I fail to see how a modification of a DVD drive will somehow make it less fair on the rest of the people who use an online service.
By the way, I don't even own an Xbox360, so I'm not whining Microsoft locked me out after having accepted their terms. However, I do consider that the abil
"Mod" me up +1 not banned from Live (Score:5, Insightful)
Unfortunately, we don't live in an ideal world. As a Live player who frequently encounters modders who use their modifications to gain unfair (read ridiculous) advantage over the competition. It's no fun to play the game and service you're paying for when you have opponents with auto-aiming snipers that shoot through walls. Or even if they can just fly (a far more rare and less threatening occurrence that is nonetheless not an exaggeration. As long as stuff like that exists banning modded 360's from live is a good way to protect the greatest part of your paying customer base from such behavior.
Coming Soon... (Score:5, Interesting)
Another issue that slightly complicates things is the fact that the 360 signs you in to XBox live by default when you have an active network connection, so modders will have to be careful to unplug their ethernet cables when the switch is turned on. One vulnerability remains, though, and that is that Microsoft may choose to push out a dashboard update which checks for the drive's original firmware on EVERY bootup, and remembers to tattle to XBox live as soon as you sign on. Microsoft could choose to store this data on the hard drive/memory card (in which case it could be defeated by having a pair of storage devices, one for modded and unmodded use), or they could put it in the 360's internal flash storage, where the dashboard and system software itself is stored (no easy solution for that one, but I don't know enough about the 360's internals to know if the internal storage is flash RAM, which makes this easy, or an EEPROM, which would seem to require that the dashboard reflash itself with the new variable set every time that happens).
Anyway, it does seem that it is possible to defeat this scheme. I'd also like to note that Microsoft's stated reason for the update is bullshit, since even with the drive's firmware flashed, the 360 will still only load Microsoft-signed executables (meaning that it can play backups of original games, but is useless for homebrew and modified games). They might as well just come out and say that it's a measure to defeat privacy, since they've locked out homebrew programs anyway (with the exception of their XNA creator's club program, which lets you run only games written for their limited API, and only in C#, instead of giving access to the full-on devkit that the pros use). Couching it in pro-gamer language about defeating cheaters is disingenuous.
Re:Coming Soon... (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
You really need to work on your analogies. There is no way any honest (and reasonably intelligent) person can make a useful analogy between physical items and data like that.
This is a good thing (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:This is a good thing (Score:5, Insightful)
When you spend some time in FPS games, you sooner or later get accused of cheating. Happens even to me from time to time. Personally, I shrug it off as some sign of respect, i.e. that I have to be kinda good to make people think I cheat. Sadly, the truth is probably closer to them being completely inapt. But having my delusions help me think I don't suck as badly as I do.
A prime example would be BF2142 and its myriad ways of detecting enemy presence. Aside of a commander ability that shows all enemies on a mini-map, you can, provided you have the necessary goodies unlocked, do it yourself to some limited extent.
When now someone runs past you, cloaked, and you start shooting him, rest assured that sooner or later a claim of cheating will follow. Ignoring that the "class" you play gets a bonus at detecting cloaked enemies, that you see him as a huge red dot on the mini-map and that you can hear his cloaking device give off a quite annoying whine. Follow your ears and that predator-like blur and you got him in no time.
In other words, any moron with half a clue would've seen him. Still, you can be certain, after you got him a few times (using every time exactly the same approach and you killing him every time exactly at the same spot, which is THE best known "sneak past the enemy" spot on the map to boot), you'll hear laments of cheating.
99% of the false cheating accusations can be traced back to a few reasons:
First, the other player knows the map VERY well and knows what approaches you can come from and where you can't come from. If there's only ONE corridor you can take, he won't bother checking the others.
Second, some games have "radar". Allowed radar, not cheated. Especially the more sci-fi oriented FPSs do. If you ignore it, your loss. Others use it to efficiency.
Third, experience. After playing a few 100 hours, you CAN actually do a headshot with a snapshot. Doesn't work all the time, but I know usually just where I have to direct my facing before switching to the sniper scope to have your head right where it should be. And yes, there are people who can sync-switch weapons, giving you a 99% health taking bullet to the body and switch over to sidearms. There are people who know exactly how long your gun reloads and who count your shots.
Fourth, teamwork. Even without any "real" verbal communication, a lot of games implement now ways to tell your team buddies where the baddies are. No, he didn't see you sneak up. But one of his buddies did and warned him in time to switch from sniper rifle to sidearm, twist around and cap you before you could knife him.
And so on. The list is far from complete, but accusations of cheating in modern games are usually false. Unless people blatantly abuse bugs in the game (like, sinking inside walls so they can't be shot or similar stuff), or blatant use of aimbots, you won't be able to see the difference of a really good gamer and a cheater.
Parent
So what are the benefits of modding? (Score:3, Interesting)
First off, everybody should have seen this coming - they did this with the first XBox console.
Second, what are the benefits (outside of copying games illegitimately and cheating) would you have by modding your XBox 360? I haven't had any incentive to purchase the 360 because outside of better graphics and new games, my old, mod'd XBox can provide me all the same functionality. At least with the first gen XBox, modding gave you DVD playback (without the need to purchase the stupid dongle), music and movie file playback (i.e. off a file server on the network), potential to install a full Linux distro like Xebian (and the potential to use it as a MythTV front-end), etc... I'm honestly curious to know how I could maximize my bang-for-my-buck by modding an XBox 360 - how else might I be able to use that hardware, similar to the old XBox?
Additionally, no matter how much they try, there will always be people bent on cheating in live. Playing Halo 2 over my friend's Live account a few times was a crumby experience for me with the abundance of cheaters out there (and no, I'm not saying that b/c I'm a sore looser, but there comes a point in time that it is horribly obvious somebody is cheating), but I'm not so optimistic this will help much. Honestly, I have never purchased a live account, and I don't ever intend to purchase one (which is part of why I won't purchase a 360 - for that and other reasons).
The Sky is Falling (Score:3, Funny)
Will this hurt MS more than the users long term? (Score:3, Insightful)
They may have lost sales of a game or two from him but they are now going to loose his annual live subscription and the ton of xbox points he goes through. He is the one who talked me into buying my first live arcade game (Settlers of Catan) and he seems to buy every game they put out. I talked to him this morning and he is now talking PS3, I cant help but wonder how many thousands of live users will now do the same? I dont have a problem with fighting piracy but MS may be cutting off it's nose to spite it's face.
Modder Server (Score:5, Interesting)
Their network, their rules (Score:3, Insightful)
Now, if they start remotely disabling the console that you bought and paid for, then we have some news.
Re:Fair and Level? (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Fair and Level? (Score:5, Insightful)
I thought that copies are identical to the originals.
One might say that using a modified XBox could mean hacked console firmware to gain unfair advantages, like visual aids, gfx drivers clip hacks, aimbots, tricks with skins, etc.
Another one might say that this is FUD applied to online gaming. After all, we're talking about Microsoft.
Parent
Re:Fair and Level? (Score:5, Insightful)
Another one might say that this is FUD applied to online gaming. After all, we're talking about Microsoft.
Yup, you nailed it. When talking about Microsoft, boring logic steps back to make way for our creative imagination!
Parent
Re:Fair and Level? (Score:5, Interesting)
At this point I think most of that kind of cheating is limited to the gifted few who are capable of knowing what to tweak themselves, but the potential is there, all it would take is someone to release a "tool" to make it easy for Joe-wannabe-hacker and you'll find yourself playing Halo 3 with someone who has infinite ammo, perfect aim, can see through walls, jump twice as high, run twice as fast, takes no damage, etc. etc. etc.
It's good that they did this, though the number of reported False Positives is appalling. I would suspect a great many of them are due to people who unknowingly purchased used or received refurbished consoles that had previously been modified... those people really don't have any proof that they didn't mod it themselves and their console might actually be modified. There are also some reports of unmodified consoles purchased on launch day (meaning there is no way they were refurbished) getting banned, though it's difficult to tell if the claims are genuine or just some pirate crying wolf.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
It's good that they did this, though the number of reported False Positives is appalling. I would suspect a great many of them are due to people who unknowingly purchased used or received refurbished consoles that had previously been modified..
But at the end of the day a console that is modded (regardless of who CURRENTLY owns it) is still a modded console. They are not FALSE POSITIVES. They are 2nd hand modded consoles - thus M$ has every right to knock them off of XB Live.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I absolutely agree with that, but we don't know if that's the case (it was simply my own speculation). Even still MS sets procedures for gamestores that sell used consoles to ensure that they have not been modified and of course if MS is shipping out refurbished units to cust
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Fair and Level? (Score:5, Interesting)
That it hasn't been published doesn't mean it hasn't been broken. Not all hacks are made public.
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Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I think in reality it has more to do with piracy. Despite the protestations of "homebrew" people, it's quite obvious what most modchips are for. By denying pirates a substantial chunk of gameplay experience it may help deter a lot of piracy. I'm sure MS would actually brick modded
Re:Stupid decision... (Score:5, Insightful)
If they didn't want you to mod the box at all, they could just brick it.
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Re:Stupid decision... (Score:5, Informative)
1. Console updates are given to anyone.
2. You may download free stuff with either account
3. Some content (free) may first be only available to gold members then to silver.
4. You must have gold to play multiplayer.
5. You can buy extra content without having a gold membership
Look playing on xbox live has a set of rules. Like playing in the NBA, NFL, Nascar, etc
Dumb analogy complaining sports have substance abuse rules. Why not let athletes who have been loaded up on steroids compete against those who trained without them?
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Stupid decision... (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually . . .
Google "Coalesced.ini" to see how Gears of War had its ranked leaderboard hijacked by people who were enabled by flashing the drive.
Of course I am not niave enough to think that this is MS's primary motivation here
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Second, no, it doesn't matter if you revert back to the original drive firmware, your XBox System ID has been banned forever. They don't check for a modded XBox each time you sign in to live and allow/deny access based on whether you're modde
Re:Stupid decision... (Score:5, Insightful)
2. Even if the 360 were highly-moddable and could easily run Linux and function as a workstation and do all kinds of unexpected and exciting things, why should we let the modded Xbox on Live? And why would the modder care at all about being banned from Live? The only modders who would care about that are "pirates" and people who cheat at games.
3. Finally, MS doesn't make much money on things 360. Not yet, anyway. And really, regardless of how I feel about MS's style of competition and no matter what I might like or dislike about them, I don't lose sleep whenever I think about them making money. It's not like they're using the money to burn down forests and put lead in grade school water supplies.
Parent
Re:Stupid decision... (Score:4, Interesting)
That having been said, I have no problem with MS banning modded boxes from Live. Nor do I have a problem with people who may someday be able to mod their 360 and turn it into a media center, although I'd rather just build a Myth-capable Shuttle box if I wanted to do that.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Presumably you're one of the rare free software folk who has no ethical problem with what Microsoft does, then?
It's a sad reality, but if you want to play games, you have to deal with companies that are not always ethical.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I had the original XBOX and I modded mine because it made an awesome media centre, I could drop in a 250GB HDD and store all my media on the thing, or even hook it straight up to a network and stream the media from my PC. It turned the XBOX into what MS always wanted it to be, and did a much better job than MS have done so far with the 360.
Having said that, I also very much enjoyed play
Re:Stupid decision... (Score:5, Funny)
I apply the same litmus test to all decisions in my life, including my choice of girlfriends and pets. That's why I masturbate a lot and have a hamster that runs Ubuntu.
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Re:Reprecussions? (Score:5, Informative)
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Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
While the end result may be the same insofar as those who have more time play better, whining about your circumstance and complaining that you can't compete is pretty pathetic.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
We often rail on Microsoft on this website, for implementing "anti-piracy" measures at the expense and convenience of legitimate customers. As such, I don't see how people could complain about this. They ar
Re:Not if you owned an HD TV (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re:Love to See a Class Action Suit (Score:4, Informative)
Second, if you actually listened to yourself, then you would realize how ridiculous your argument is. There is a clear contract when you sign up for the Xbox Live service. It says, if you mod your box, you are not eligible for the service. Case closed.
For a comparison, if you buy a car and you make a modification that is not authorized by the manufacturer, your warranty is null and void. And that is a rule that has been tested many times in the court of law.
Good luck trying to get a lawyer.
Parent
Re: (Score:3)