Indecent Game Sales Now A Felony In New York

Gamespot reports on the final passing of New York senate bill A8696, legislation proposed just last week, that now makes it a serious felony to sell or rent a violent game to minors. The bill makes it illegal to sell a console without parental control options and establishes a group to second guess the ESRB's rating decisions. "'This bill is impermissibly vague,' EMA president Bo Andersen said in a statement. 'A8696 seeks to apply real-world standards of violence to the fictional and fanciful world of video games, an environment in which they have no meaning. As a result, retailers and clerks will not and cannot know with certainty which video games could send them to jail under A8696. It was depressing to hear members of the Assembly note the constitutional problems with the bill and then state that they were voting for it.'" The senate seems to have no fear of possible overturn of the bill, and claims it's only thinking of the children.

Wow. cigs and beee

[Broken scope (973885)]

sold to a minor don't even warrant a class E felony, and they have prove harmful effects.

Re:Wow. cigs and beer

[Broken scope (973885)]

Oh god my... I can't believe i wrote that...

Re:Wow. cigs and beee

[Lightwarrior (73124)]

Yes, but the NY Senate is thinking of the children. That's more important than any study, or even the proven fact that the courts will knock this bill down faster than you can say "waste of taxpayer dollars."

Re:Wow. cigs and beee

[jellomizer (103300)]

It is a problem with Elected Politics. In order to keep elected you need to do "Think of the Children" Laws just so you can stay elected.
Candidate A. In my Last Term I lowered crime by 25%, added more funding for social services, The graduation to college rate is the highest in the world, and I lowered taxes by 40%.

Candidate B. I passed the law to save your kids from video game violance. I passed a law to insure that your kids will not hurt their knees when they fall, I passed a law that will make sure your kid will never talk to a homeless person again. All this for only a 10% increase in taxes.

Well yes these are exadarations. But the "Think of the Children" effect people on an emotional level while Saving Taxes, better use of funds reduction in crime is more of a Thinking type of thing. It is easier to sell emotion then thoughts.

 

Yeah, It Won't Be Overturned

[dctoastman (995251)]

Just ruled unconstitutional. C'mon, a "serious felony". What about movies with equivalent ratings? And books. Books have no rating systems at all. My six year old niece can go and buy any Diane Steel or Stephen King book and I would not recommend either to an immature audience.

Re:

[Z0mb1eman (629653)]

can go and buy any Diane Steel or Stephen King book and I would not recommend either to an immature audience.

I dunno, I think I'd recommend Diane Steel or Stephen King books only to immature audiences... :p

Re:Yeah, It Won't Be Overturned

[drinkypoo (153816)]

If it's not Congress making a law, I don't understand how it's unconstitutional.

Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution [wikipedia.org]

HTH, HAND

Re:

[eln (21727)]

Even if you're right, and I don't think you are, this law is still unconstitutional because the New York State Constitution, Article I, Section 8, prohibits passing laws abridging the freedom of speech:

Every citizen may freely speak, write and publish his sentiments on all subjects, being responsible for the abuse of that right; and no law shall be passed to restrain or abridge the liberty of speech or of the press.

Re:

[moranar (632206)]

I don't see how this law restricts that freedom. It's an idiotic law, certainly, but people aren't stopped from creating games directly because of it. It's maybe when they try to sell their creation that they might find difficulties.

Re:Yeah, It Won't Be Overturned

[denttford (579202)]

Except you can't preemptively sue to get rid of a bad law like this - someone has to be prosecuted and willing to forgo the plea offer and willing to be the object of a long long legal battle.

Agree or disagree with the reasoning, that's the way it is. [wikipedia.org]

A felony?!?

[Winckle (870180)]

I'm not a citizen of the USA, but I thought felonies were very serious crimes, like assault, or bodily harm. Not selling violent video games to children, yeah, it's probably a "bad" thing to do, but making it a felony seems a bit over the top.

Re:A felony?!?

[Tridus (79566)]

All you have to know to understand Americans these days (particularly politicians) is that they've lost all ability to view things in perspective. Thats why every time something new is made illegal (especially if its completely innane, like this), the sentences for breaking said law are so completely out of line as to be laughable. Just wait, pretty soon pirating a HD DVD will be right up there with rape (if its not there already).

Re:

[Bent Mind (853241)]

All you have to know to understand Americans these days (particularly politicians) is that they've lost all ability to view things in perspective.

Not only has the electorate, in general, lost all semblance of perspective, they've also completely lost the ability to separate fantasy from reality. They seriously believe that banning the fantasy will eliminate to reality.

Re:A felony?!?

[oGMo (379)]

Just wait, pretty soon pirating a HD DVD will be right up there with rape (if its not there already).

I believe rape gets you 3-5 years, whereas copyright violation can get you 10 and a $250k-per-incident fine. Just goes to show what our politicians really value.

This is New York we're talking about

[fistfullast33l (819270)]

Knee Jerk reactions by the legislature are not new to New Yorkers. I have three words: Rockefeller Drug Laws [wikipedia.org]. At the time they were the harshest penalties in the United States for drug possession. From the article:

the penalty for selling two ounces ... or more of heroin, morphine, ... opium, cocaine, or ... marijuana .... or possessing four ounces or more of the same substances, was made the same as that for second-degree murder

So this isn't an overreaction by the New York Senate - it's standard operating procedure! Even better, the laws weren't reformed for over 20 years. Just goes to show why we're the most dysfunctional state government in the country.

Just go to kid-whose-parents-dont-care's house

[192939495969798999 (58312)]

We all knew the kid growing up who had the porn, whose parents didn't care, and who had the latest violent-est video game. I guarantee that this will not slow down kids' exposure to such games, because they'll all just congregate at ol'johnny's house to play re-bloodening 3. It might slow down individual sales, but if exposure to the game is the problem, then consider it as unsolved as ever. In fact, making the games harder to get usually makes them more attractive to kids, as in "this one must be really bad, lets go to johnny's and see!"

Re:

[drinkypoo (153816)]

I guarantee that this will not slow down kids' exposure to such games, because they'll all just congregate at ol'johnny's house to play re-bloodening 3. [...] In fact, making the games harder to get usually makes them more attractive to kids, as in "this one must be really bad, lets go to johnny's and see!"

You're forgetting another exciting factor. Johnny is usually the kid with the least parental supervision. He probably has a twisted little worldview and will get your kids into trouble.

I knew kids who h

Political Chicanery

[onetwentyone (882404)]

They can point out constitutional problems and still decide to vote for it knowing it can be overturned; sounds like a whole lot of political "I need something for my re-election" garbage. I imagine the exceedingly gross penalty stands for nothing more than a Get Tough (tm) on non-crimes stance.

Honestly, what is happening in this country where we've lost sight of what really matters?

Re:

[berashith (222128)]

I have a serious issue with someone who has sworn to uphold and protect a document knowingly commiting an act that violates it. I would love a rule/law where when a public servant has voted positively for enough ( 3 , 5 ) items that get overturned as unconstitutional that they would lose their rights to be a public servant.

Of course, since this was passed by a state law, which are reserved under the federal constitution to be allowed to do quite a bit, I am not certain which constitution we are in violation

Need responsible legislators

[RichMan (8097)]

Proposal:

Should a legislator vote for a law/bill later found by a court to be unconstitutional that legistlator shall immediatly be dismissed from their post having been essentially found to be "acting against the constitution". Such shall not apply to direct attempts to modify the constitution.

Screw the children, think of the adults.

[Blackknight (25168)]

Am I the only one that's tired of having their life inconvenienced for everybody's else's children? It's not my fault you're too lazy to watch what your kids are buying/playing. Why is the New York legislature even wasting time on this?

Classic systems have no parental controls..

[LordJezo (596587)]

The NES, SNES, Genesis, Atari, Game Boy, etc.

None of them have parental controls. Does that mean selling classic systems is illegal? Or do the old ones get grandfathered in?

Re:Classic systems have no parental controls..

[Constantine XVI (880691)]

Neither does the Nintendo DS. The current best-selling game system is now illegal in New York, which is also the location of Nintendo World. Way to go NY

I know this sounds wrong...

[brkello (642429)]

but I am beginning to hate the children. They keep getting in the way of all our fun. Maybe we should have less children so we don't have to think of them so much.

Who needs proof? Easy political points!

[Drake42 (4074)]

A) See wildly unconstitutional bill, supported by a zealous minority.
B) Realize that if you vote for it the zealots will vote for you and if not they'll bully you in the media.
C) Realize that the bill will be immediately overturned by the judiciary, who are not under the same vote pressure.
D) Pass the bill, reap the rewards, trust the judges to do their jobs and shut down the bill.

Lame, cheap and easy. All it costs is voter money and wasted time, but tax money is free so who cares!

This is why we call it politics instead of governance.

Re:

[PhxBlue (562201)]

You forgot: E) Condemn "activist judges" to keep favor with the zealots.

Fuck the Children

[Maltheus (248271)]

I got nothing against children themselves, but I am so sick and tired of politicians hiding behind, "but it's for the children," bullshit. The didn't seem to be nearly as many problems with children before we had millions of laws "for the children."

Alternatives for Kids' Free Time

[Phoenix666 (184391)]

Thinking of the children...I live in New York and I'd far prefer kids and teens spending their free time indoors playing a violent video game like GTA than hanging out outside spraying graffiti, destroying property, or any of the much worse things they get into when they are bored and have time on their hands.

Sure, there are some kids who'll go pick up a DIY radio kit, code, or play basketball in their free time. But judging from the kids on my block in Brooklyn there are plenty who are not adept enough or self-motivated enough to do those things, but quite capable of doing harm if not directed or distracted.

So who gets nailed by this?

[phorm (591458)]

The store owner, the store, or the minimum-wage employee who sells an M game to a kid who is 17 years 11 months old, and looks like he's 21.

Yeah... that's what I thought.

Re:politicians.

[faloi (738831)]

It's funny, in a sick way, that a lot of the politicians that are quick to place restrictions on video games and music seemingly don't care a bit about violence in the entertainment industry. Like everything else, you only need to look at the money to figure out why.

Re:politicians.

[anagama (611277)]

Or violence in real life. For that they sell yellow ribbon bumper stickers.

Re:politicians.

[flyingsquid (813711)]

Or, God forbid we actually try implementing some reasonable restrictions on handgun ownership in this country. Because, after all, if we did, then we'd turn into a totalitarian dictatorship where violent crime would be even worse, just like what happened Canada.

Re:politicians.

[Qzukk (229616)]

then we'd turn into a totalitarian dictatorship where violent crime would be even worse, just like what happened Canada.

Or Britain?

Re:

[Anarke_Incarnate (733529)]

Because the law abiding citizens this imposes restrictions on.........THEY are the ones we must stop. Aside from recent issues (VT) there have been only flies among 757s where legal gun owners are the ones who commit violent crimes. Many legal gun owners actually STOP crimes. Why should that matter... Feel good legislation is where it is at, man

Re:

[Kelbear (870538)]

Handgun restrictions vary heavily from state to state.

For example, here in New Jersey, it took 3 written reference letters and 6 weeks of processing for my law-abiding honors-student volunteer firefighter friend to get his gun permit.

Transporting the gun requires that the gun be unloaded with the ammo kept away from the gun. The gun must be in the trunk. The gun must be locked in a safe.

There's a great deal of restrictions out there. The problem is that it doesn't do anything to discourage those who have ac

Re:

[koreaman (835838)]

Individuality? Not doing what one is told? Maybe for some elite subset of the intellectual population, but I've remarked no difference between normal Europeans and normal Americans in this regard.

I believe a bigger problem is the fact that the average American almost worships his Constitution. Rather than asking if a given law is good or bad, he asks if it follows the original intentions of the Founding Fathers, which gets in the way of any rational debate. Please remember that, living in the XVIIIth centur

Re:politicians.

[drinkypoo (153816)]

Individuality? Not doing what one is told? Maybe for some elite subset of the intellectual population, but I've remarked no difference between normal Europeans and normal Americans in this regard.

I didn't say that things were precisely the same today as when the nation was founded.

But certain legacies from that time are still alive and strong today.

I believe a bigger problem is the fact that the average American almost worships his Constitution. Rather than asking if a given law is good or bad, he asks if it follows the original intentions of the Founding Fathers, which gets in the way of any rational debate.

I take your meaning, but I also want to reiterate the point that those who forget the lessons of the past are condemned to repeat them. The freedom of speech is necessary so that men can speak their minds and influence those of others. The freedom to bear arms is the only way to guarantee the freedom of speech. I could go on down the list, but the fact is that there are points at which force is the only valid response. When you get there, yes, the system has failed. But the old adage about the tree of liberty and the blood of patriots remains true.

Re:politicians.

[nickname225 (840560)]

Do you really think that you can "contain an errant government by force"? The right to gun ownership might have made sense as bar against government overreaching in the 18th Century - but today - there is no way you or me or any 10,000 of our friends together can stand up to the government in armed rebellion. The armament gap between governments and citizens has now increased to the point where citizens might as well be unarmed, naked and crippled if they go up against government troops. The best you could hope to do is wage an annoying guerrilla war and pick off a few soldiers before they kill you. Don't be encouraged by the success of the Iraqis. They are only doing as well as they are because of U.S. unwillingness to be seen using excessive force - not a likelihood in the case of internal rebellion.

Re:

[GreyPoopon (411036)]

Don't be encouraged by the success of the Iraqis. They are only doing as well as they are because of U.S. unwillingness to be seen using excessive force - not a likelihood in the case of internal rebellion.

I disagree. It's working in Iraq. It worked for YEARS in Afghanistan against the Soviets (and I'm sure they were using excessive force). It has been working in certain South American countries. I also think that the unwillingness to be perceived as using excessive force would be multiplied domesticall

Re:

[Petaris (771874)]

Perhaps, but the military is made up of citizens as well, including friends and relatives. If something like that came about here how do you know that the government would still have the entire military following its orders? Just a thought.

Re:politicians.

[John Betonschaar (178617)]

If what you call 'personal freedom' is so aptly represented by the right to bear firearms, I'd say you have a really strange idea of 'freedom'. IMO the most important representatives of personal freedom are freedom of speech, freedom of thought, political preferences, sexual preferences, the right to decide what you do with your own property, the right to proper health care and education, even for the less wealthy, etc. etc. etc. Guns of all things *don't even occur to me* when thinking of personal freedom...

Still, the USA are famous for their bad public health care for large groups of people, their hypocritcal views on sexuality and different sexual preferences, strong commercial lobbies that dictate politics instead of common sense, government censorship, irrational soft drugs (why is smoking a joint not'personal freedom') and alcohol policy and so on. Yet the *one* thing that virtually no 'free people' from other parts of the world (the right to have guns) care about, seems to be the only fucking thing that matters when it comes down to 'freedom'.

You just enjoy your guns... err.. freedom...

Re:

[amRadioHed (463061)]

I'll take gang bangers blasting each other (95% of murders) over being completely monitored by government.

That is a false dichotomy.

Re:

[flyingsquid (813711)]

Damn, with this law in place, how will I get my kicks selling violent video games to minors? You know what someone ought to do is create a video game where you earn points by distributing violent games to minors!

Re:

[Chris Burke (6130)]

Well of course. " The senate seems to have no fear of possible overturn of the bill, and claims it's only thinking of the children."

Yeah, of course they don't fear it being overturned, which it will be on plain 1st Ammendment grounds just like every other law like it that has ever been passed. What does it being overturned cost them? Nothing, not a damn thing. They passed the happy-feel-good-think-of-the-children-but-don't-ac tually-think legislation, and it was the evil activist judges who knocked it d

Re:

[Mr. Underbridge (666784)]

No, the best thing you can do is to do your fucking job and at least slow the march of evil for a little while, rather than joining it (or laying down and taking it) for your own greed. Another term is useless if you're not helping anyway.

When you grow up you'll learn that you need to pick your battles. If this is the one end-all issue that you'll go to the wall for, then yes, you do. Otherwise, you're out on your ass before you can do anything actually useful. And for what? A bill that has a modest c

Re:Just stop at parental controls.

[mulvane (692631)]

Nothing!! That is just the solution actually.. Leave the parenting to the parent and make parents responsible. Sadly, most parents want it the other way around anymore.
Who has time to be bothered by a troublesome kid.
Sure glad the kids at school, now I can have some peace.
Isn't there some kind of camp or afterschool activity I can send my kid to
Why don't you go play over at some one elses house

Parents don't raise their kids anymore, they expect government to do it, and government in turn wants to put THEIR religious and moral beliefs on our children, and punish the parents who disagree with THEIR views.

Re:

[PFI_Optix (936301)]

You don't know the same parents I do.

Most parents I know think they are at war with the schools because schools (an extension of the government) are trying undermine them as parents and raise the kids however they see fit. They whine and complain when the schools assign a lot of homework because "we don't have time to do anything as a family".

Of course, all they do as a family is eat fast food while watching TV before the kids lock themselves in their rooms for the evening so that Susie can show her boobs t

Re:Indecent Game Sales? No way!

[Guppy06 (410832)]

"Well, there goes my idea of opening a game shop where all the employees are topless women."

You'll likely scare away most of your customers; they're not accustomed to the real thing.

Re:

[VWJedi (972839)]

I was a little worried when I read this...

I think it's a good idea, provided that you install a non-slip floor and a drain.

Uh-oh...

Otherwise the saliva may become a problem.

Whew! Saliva... ok then...

Re:

[praxis (19962)]

Asking retailers to follow a rating system is just fine, and intrudes on no adult freedoms. I think the problem with this particular bill are two fold:

1) It's makes it a felony, which is a bit harsh for what it's trying to do. As far as I know, selling cigarettes to minors is not a felony, for example.

2) It doesn't proscribe any metric by which permitted and verbotten games are determined. To return to the cigarette analogy, every retailer that sells cigarettes knows what a tobacco product looks like. N