Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments
Search

News for nerds, stuff that matters

Slashdot Log In

Log In

Create Account  |  Retrieve Password

Take Two Vows To Publish Manhunt 2

Posted by Zonk on Tue Jul 10, 2007 09:58 AM
from the they-will-survive dept.
Entertainment Games
Despite Manhunt 2's bad reception in both UK and US, Take Two has publicly announced that it will publish the game at some point. Backing the title as art, once again, the company vowed to see the game released in some capacity or another. "The chairman added that Take-Two subsidiary Rockstar Games, which publishes Manhunt and the Grand Theft Auto series, sees itself as a producer of games rated M for Mature. However, Zelman did say Take-Two would stand by its game, even if it bore the dreaded AO for Adults Only rating. 'We don't see ourselves in the Adults Only business,' he told analysts listening to the call. 'Having said that, if we find ourselves in the Adults Only business, it would be because we have a title that we consider art and entertainment, that we consider if appropriately labeled AO, and that we would like to bring to market.'"
+ -
story

Related Stories

[+] Manhunt 2 Ban Fallout, Game Rated AO By ESRB 384 comments
In the wake of yesterday's announcement of a UK ban on Manhunt 2 , Rockstar has registered its disappointment at the BBFC's decision. The company simply stated that they 'respect those who have different opinions about the horror genre and videogames as a whole, but we hope they will also consider the opinions of the adult gamers for whom this product is intended.' Meanwhile, here in the US, the ESRB has given the game the dreaded AO rating, for adults only. If you're unfamiliar with this seldom-seen designation, it's essentially the 'kiss of death' for a title at retail; a number of popular videogame outlets refuse to carry titles with that rating. MTV's Stephen Totilo has a lengthy and considered discussion of these proceedings. "For 'Manhunt 2,' signs pointed to the title being both less and more extreme than the first. Gone from press previews were mentions of snuff films and Directors. Instead, a more traditionally violent video game premise: one man's struggle to stay alive in an insane asylum gone mad."
[+] Your Rights Online: AO Rating Basically Bans Manhunt 2 From Release 295 comments
Yesterday we discussed Manhunt 2's AO rating, and what it meant for the game's retail outlook. Gamespot points out that effectively an AO rating means that the game will never be released in the first place. "Both [Nintendo and Sony] forbid licensed third-party publishers from releasing games rated AO for Adults Only on their various hardware platforms. Though Manhunt 2 isn't slated for any of Microsoft's systems, the company has also confirmed that it does not allow AO-rated titles on the Xbox or Xbox 360. The sole exception to this rule was in 2005 when the already released Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas was retroactively rated AO, at which point retailers pulled it from shelves and Take-Two suspended production of the game."
[+] Politics: Take Two Shelves Manhunt 2 350 comments
If you've been following this story so far, it shouldn't come as a shock that Take-Two has shelved Manhunt 2 for the moment, while they decide what to do next. The company is considering its options, and still fully supports the game as a 'work of art'. "Take-Two Interactive Software has temporarily suspended plans to distribute Manhunt 2 for the Wii or PlayStation platforms while it reviews its options with regard to the recent decisions made by the British Board of Film Classification and Entertainment Software Rating Board ... We continue to stand behind this extraordinary game. We believe in freedom of creative expression, as well as responsible marketing, both of which are essential to our business of making great entertainment." Analysts have already started weighing in, with some seeing this as unfairly targeting the GTA-maker for previous 'sins'.
[+] News: Croal vs. Totilo - The Manhunt 2 Letters 42 comments
N'Gai Croal (of Newsweek) and Stephen Totilo (of MTV) once again match wits in a textual format, this time over the Manhunt 2 controversy. In Round One, the two reporters discuss the process of playing the game for the first time, and wonder what the experience must have been like for the ESRB raters. Round Two sees them take things up a notch, discussing what exactly it is about the game that's so violent. Round Three ... has them questioning the nature of gaming itself. As always, these are two smart guys with some interesting insights into the medium. Well worth your time. From N'Gai's final letter: "It's difficult to 'read' or derive much meaning from a game. That's why in our three Vs. Modes, we ultimately don't spend very much time talking about or analyzing the experience of playing a game, because it's hard to do so without turning our emails into "I went here. I did this. I picked that up." Which is, after all, what games are. So if the essence of a game is located in what we do, is a walkthrough--go here, do this, pick up that--the most truthful way to write about the experience of playing a game? I hope not. But it's something we should consider. Once again, if the essence of any game is located in its action, reaction, interaction, and the rules which circumscribe those three elements, what does the narrative do?"
[+] Rockstar Appeals British Ban on Manhunt 2 56 comments
1up is reporting (via MCV) that Rockstar has decided to appeal the BBFC ruling on their uber-violent Manhunt 2 title. The 'next step' is to get a hearing scheduled, which will allow the game to be demo'd and arguments given. "Rockstar Games had been given six weeks to appeal the decision, and with that opportunity about to expire, the company lodged its formal appeal yesterday ... The appeal was filed with the Video Appeals Committee, which can overturn the BBFC decision. As noted in our first article about the ban, the VAC overturned the BBFC's ban of Carmageddon back in 1997, giving Rockstar a glimmer of hope in its current situation."
[+] Manhunt 2 Ready For Release, Politicians Angered 66 comments
After much hemming and hawing, Take-Two appears to have secured an 'M' rating for Manhunt 2 from the ESRB. The title is now due in stores around Halloween. The reversal of fortunes for the much-maligned title has prompted a number of conspiracy theories and outright outrage from groups 'fighting' videogame violence. Well-known commentator on the subject and California State Senator Leland Yee is demanding more transparency from the ESRB as a result of this decision. From GamePolitics' coverage: "Parents can't trust a rating system that doesn't even disclose how they come to a particular rating. The ESRB and Rockstar should end this game of secrecy by immediately unveiling what content has been changed to grant the new rating and what correspondence occurred between the ESRB and Rockstar to come to this conclusion. Unfortunately, history shows that we must be quite skeptical of these two entities."
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.

Take Two Vows To Publish Manhunt 2 50 Comments More /

 Full
 Abbreviated
 Hidden
More
Loading... please wait.

  • In some capacity or another. (Score:5, Funny)

    by Digital Vomit (891734) on Tuesday July 10 2007, @10:06AM (#19813483) Homepage Journal
    In some capacity or another, eh? Come on collectible card game!

  • Uh, How Will This Work? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by blueZhift (652272) on Tuesday July 10 2007, @10:16AM (#19813605) Homepage Journal
    It's nice that they're determined to get the game out, but how is this going to happen if the Sony and Nintendo won't approve the game for their consoles? And I don't recall there being a PC version of the game. Of course they could port it to the PC and then just sell it online, maybe even with Steam. But unless they were planning this contingency all along, it will take time to port the game. Another question is whether Microsoft would allow the game on the 360. If they have to take the time to do a PC port, then a 360 port almost comes for free. Manhunt 2 as an Xbox 360/Windows Vista exclusive might actually make sense. Not only that, if they're successful, it could put a whole new spin on the AO rating issue. It might just remove the curse.
    • They should deffinitely do it, they should port it to PC, sell it online (via STEAM or whatever) and then push a huge campaign about the game ("This is the game they DID NOT WANTED YOU TO PLAY" and all that) until they get millions and millions in revenue and then the three console makers will be salivating to get the exclusiveness and then give them two fingers... (most likely only to Microsoft and Sony, as usually Nintendo is not as desperate as these two)

      Fuck them, if it is a game, another type of game
    • It's possible to publish a game without Sony's approval. Junk TV [www.junk.tv] for instance is not approved by Sony. But this limits your manufacturing options and probably distribution. Nintendo on the other hand, since they control all manufacturing I don't think there is any way to sneak around their approval process. And since Xbox titles need to be digitally signed by Microsoft, even though they use a standard media and format, I'm not sure you can evade their approval process either. But I think Take Two could get
  • Sell it direct. Take Two's problem isn't that it's banned. The problem is that they can't sell it at Target and Wal Mart with an AO rating. Going direct eliminates this problem.
    • Well, they'd have to port it to PC for starters. Further, Nintendo and Sony don't licence AO games for their consoles.

      Which makes me wonder, can you sell games direct for a game console and avoid the licencing fees? I remember that whole Licenced For Nintendo fiasco a while back in the NES days but not sure how much would apply.
      • I'm sure the DMCA gives plenty of ammunition for preventing a legitimate company from publishing unlicensed games.

        Then again, manufacturers of cheat devices (game shark, action replay, etc) are unlicensed so... how are they getting away with it?
      • Which makes me wonder, can you sell games direct for a game console and avoid the licencing fees?

        Legally or technically? I have no idea about the legal aspect.

        As for the technical aspect, the original NES used a special manufactured-by-Nintendo chip in the cartridge to verify that the game was licensed. Various non-approved game publishers would cannibalize those chips from unpopular games and stick them in their own. Presto! Instant authorized cartridge! I remember hearing about one game manufacturer where
    • Wrong. It is currently "banned," in the sense that none of the 3 console manufacturers will permit AO games on their systems. This means that without evading whatever "DRM" is present in the big consoles, a company can't sell an AO game. There are also probably legal questions in terms of licensing, but I don't know what sorts of contracts have to be signed in order to get development kits and the like. As others note, the game could be released for PC as an AO game, though they'd still have the same re

  • Stop the presses! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Control Group (105494) * on Tuesday July 10 2007, @10:20AM (#19813667) Homepage
    Take 2 vows to try and eke some income out of a product they've already spent money on!
    • A product that was given the kiss of death by the ESRB. Remember, the console market won't sell an AO game and you can't by AO games in stores. So that leaves self-distribution (or online-distribution like Steam) for the PC... But wait, they weren't developing Manhunt 2 for the PC. I'd be kinda miffed if this happened to me.

      So yeah, this kind of is news. I'd like to play it, but who the hell knows when I will be able to or how toned down it will be. I'm actually curious if it's even that bad, if anyone has

  • Could be the best thing (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ihatewinXP (638000) on Tuesday July 10 2007, @10:28AM (#19813767) Homepage
    Think of it....

      I think I speak for a lot of people that would _love_ to see the AO rating go from "the dreaded" to the "hells yeah!" rating. I mean we all want these kinds of titles - we are growing up but dammit as much as I love nintendo I want my games to grow up with me. Honestly I cant figure out where the real problem is. Distributors refuse to carry it - why? I know the fact that Wal-Mart wont carry it is a real problem when you are looking at your bottom line - but thankfully they looked at a bottom line of zero and are deciding to go ahead.

    What I could see this as doing for the future is this being remembered as that first title that said 'the hell with it' and went through with the AO rating and made the Nintendo/Sony/Microsoft's realize that there is a market here and it is worth expanding our definition of games. Take Two is an utter mess at this point - but that desperation is great for doing something crazy that just might work. Dont tone down the game - throw in those few bits you were scared would originally garner an AO rating and just sell the damn thing.

    • Re:Could be the best thing (Score:5, Insightful)

      by BMonger (68213) on Tuesday July 10 2007, @10:44AM (#19813989)
      As I grow up I didn't stop saving the princess and start killing people in brutal ways. Just because my age changes doesn't mean I want more violence in my life.

      I'm not saying they shouldn't publish the game at all... Publish away, I don't have to buy it. I just don't think the majority of adults even really care about AO games.
      • As I grow up I didn't stop saving the princess and start killing people in brutal ways. Just because my age changes doesn't mean I want more violence in my life.

        Wow really, so you still watch the CareBears too? You don't think it was violent to dump a living being (deemed "evil", by the book that came with the game) into a pool of lava? Hmm.

        I'm not saying they shouldn't publish the game at all... Publish away, I don't have to buy it. I just don't think the majority of adults even really care about AO game

        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          by BMonger (68213)
          Wow really, so you still watch the CareBears too? You don't think it was violent to dump a living being (deemed "evil", by the book that came with the game) into a pool of lava? Hmm.

          No I don't watch the Care Bears. But that wasn't my point. My point was that growing older does not equal an increased need for violence. I'm not sure what you're talking about with the lava and such as I don't think I've ever played a Care Bears game and I don't remember the cartoon much.

          There is a difference between a carto
          • While I agree with you that age doesn't necessarily mean "suddenly desirous of much gore!" I think the GP's lava comment was referencing the first Super Mario Bros. game. At the end of every world, you could get past the boss one of two ways: Fire power, or hitting the axe-like thing to cause the bridge to fall out from under him. In the latter case, he fell into the lava.
        • You realize that there are other options besides CareBears and Hostel, right? Growing up is about finding a balance in life, in every aspect. Youth is about exploring the bounderies, and CareBears and Hostel are definitely that.

          I see the ultra-violent games as being the LEAST mature, actually. Because a lot of the simple, innocent games appeal to older gamers who grew up with Mario and Tetris... games started out innocent and simple, it's called nostolgia.

          For the most part, I know very few people outside of
      • Kicking a turtle shell in an alien's gave, making him fall over a ledge and die is still plenty violent ;)
      • People will care about AO games if companies start producing good AO games.

        Right now because being rated AO makes selling a game so difficult the only ones that bother are 'shock' games that do nothing but focus on sex or super-bloody-violent. There is no point in making a game that _touches_ on sex for instance.

        If there was a good channel for distributing AO games and a console allowed them, I could easily see attractive games being produced that integrated topics such as sexually in a mild way rather th
    • While I definitely want titles that appeal to me on a more adult level, I somehow doubt that Manhunt 2 is what I have in mind.

      It's not like Take Two is making a game like Requiem for a Dream, Bad Lieutenant or American Psycho (all originally NC-17).
      All signs point to them making another snuff game, that just happens to be more offensive than the last. I mean, I played Manhunt. There's not alot going on there. Tissue-thin story, characterization and themes. Worst of all, the gameplay was a fairly uninspi

      • Re:Could be the best thing (Score:4, Insightful)

        by HTH NE1 (675604) on Tuesday July 10 2007, @11:56AM (#19815013)

        Nintendo/Microsoft/Sony should be able to bar whatever they want
        Would you extend Microsoft's right to being able to prevent playing AO games on XP or Vista?

        What if all the major record labels decided they would no longer publish songs with profanity in them? Or even CD players refused to play certain CDs based on their content?

        How about the DVDCCA deciding to amend their license to require DVD players to refuse to play anything above R?

        Yeah, I disagree that the makers of a game console can restrict what types of games I can play based on their content. That console is in the privacy of my own home; I should get to decide what gets played on it. Once I buy it, it isn't their console anymore; it's mine! If they want control, they should lease the console, not sell it.
        • If they maintained a closed development ecosystem, more like Apple, the question would make more sense.
          But if they did: sure. Why not? It's their platform and they already have all sorts of qualifications in their licensing terms.

          That's one of the things consumers need to be aware of and consider when they buy into a closed platform.
          And then they can vote with their dollars on platforms that don't allow the content they want.
          E.g. no porn on betamax, laserdisc, divx(the bad one)

        • They're sorta trying to. The 360 doesn't allow AO games (people seem to have failed to mention this, simply because MH2 is not for that system), also, Microsoft is TRYING to start the "Games for Windows" campaign, which basically tries to build a console-style infrastructure in the PC world, although it's not catching on very quickly.

          If the "Games for Windows" campaign (which won't accept AO games) takes off, you'll see exactly that.
      • > Maybe it turned around after the first three hours or so, but I'll never know.

        It did.
    • I completely agree. It doesn't sound like this is a game that should be played by minors without good parental supervision, so labeling it "Adults Only" sounds perfectly reasonable to me; i don't believe the rating should be reduced. The problem is that at this point "Adults Only" is seen by many (including WalMart et al) as a euphemism for "pr0n", and that's what needs to change.
    • Frankly I don't think you do speak for a lot of gamers. I'm not going to claim to either. Frankly though, I haven't looked at the ESRB rating on a game in years. All I want is a good, quality game that plays well. A game can have all the gore it wants, if it plays terribly why would I want to play it?

      Take God of War 2 for instance. Pretty graphic, definitely mature. Every review brought this up. But how many reviewers gave it a great score because within 5 minutes of starting you were gouging out a someo
      • The rating is for two people: Parents and retail clerks. Parents can gauge the violence a child is exposed to depending on how far the child has developed his sense of reality vs. fantasy, and retail clerks can prevent sales of M and AO rated games to children to prevent his employer from being sued. It's pretty much pointless to the rest of us, including the children themselves.
        • I realize what the rating is for. What the GP implied (or at least how I interpreted it) was that instead of merely dropping Bowser into the lava, he wanted to watch him burn alive, and then go ravage the princess.
    • I mean we all want these kinds of titles - we are growing up but dammit as much as I love nintendo I want my games to grow up with me.

      When you do grow up, you may discover that the real "adult" game play is to be found in Planescape:Torment while Manhunt 2 remains adolescent high-tech "torture porn."

  • Did anyone else read the headline and misconstrue it that way, implying that the company that was going to publish the game had previously vowed to publish a particular game and then suddenly did so again, as if pledging the first time wasn't sufficient?
  • Go ahead and remove the ultra-violence so the consoles will license it, all the while porting the original version to the PC to rebrand as "Manhunt 2: Director's Cut"
    • I actually like this idea, and would offer to take it a bit further. Sale the game uber cheap. I mean dirt cheap. And then offer the 'directors cut' update as a for sale download that gets installed to the harddrive. The base game is now $10 - $20, and the directors cut, which can only be bought with a CC is another $30 .. or something.

      What do you think?
      • All the same to me. I wouldn't be playing it either way, and not just because I don't own a console. I hate extremely graphically violent games, but I hate censorship even more.
  • I wasn't aware that graphic murder was an art form. I'm curious as to who they believe will buy this? Usually over the top violent games appeal to angst ridden teens more than any other segment and removing that from the equation leaves either the fractional market that is "hardcore" buy anything controversial adults, the overly curious (who will most likely rent) and maybe the already psychologically disturbed (which will just lead to the next Jack Thompson lawsuit). I could be wrong but I would guess t
  • There's always the Steam option for PC's. If Take Two wants to really start putting the hurt on GameStop and EBGames who're letting themselves get pushed into the censorship game, they can just take them out of the loop entirely. Then again, not like you can get PC games there anyhow.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Applekid (993327)
      They're allowed, just like the MPAA ratings. The article doesn't say though if Take Two is going to also resubmit a censored edition to get an M rating at the same time... but if they're calling it art they probably shouldn't to that to keep any face at all.
    • I think they mean "art" in the sense that an "art" movie can get away with a lot more than a mainstream movie with the same rating.

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Volante3192 (953645)
        Course, movies are rated by the MPAA, which is made up of the major movie studios. The ESRB was created out of an act of Congress.

        What the ESRB should be is headed by the big gaming publishers. If the movie studios can regulate themselves and put out Hostel, et. al., then game companies should be able to do the same. ...that or kill off the MPAA and make it a governmnt agency...which could have the added benefit of putting the brakes on Hostel Part 3.

    • Re:Good for them (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Volante3192 (953645) on Tuesday July 10 2007, @10:18AM (#19813641)
      AO is more like the NC-17 rating. ESRB's M is equivalent, in theory, to MPAA's R even though they're not enforced the same.

      I'd like to see whoever it was that ran a sting operation and saw 69% of kids under 17 could buy M rated games do the same for R rated films like Hostel, Saving Private Ryan and Pulp Fiction. (Yes, I picked those films on purpose as examples)
      • I can see Hostel and Saving Private Ryan... but Pulp Fiction? That's pretty tame as action-based movies go. It has about 2 gorey scenes in the whole thing, and what's more is that they're supposed to be funny (well, one of them, at least).
        • I picked PF for the amount of 'mature' language in the film.

          (And if anyone else out there is going, huh? at my picks, Hostel for gratuitous violence, SPR for historical violence)

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by nickj6282 (896871) *

      I wish AO would be treated just like R ratings for movies. Wal mart et. al. don't refuse to sell R rated movies, but have this problem with AO?

      Honestly I don't see this as a problem. So what if Walmart won't sell your game? The people who want to play Manhunt 2 are going to play Manhunt 2 regardless if they can get it at Walmart or not. Properly marketed (so far so good), Manhunt 2 will sell even if Walmart doesn't carry it. There's always Amazon or any number of other online stores, plus all the retail est

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by eln (21727) *
      Modded as Troll, but I think you bring up a good point. If it was "Manhunt 2: Search for Bin Laden" or "Manhunt 2: Kill All Terrorists" it would probably be lauded as a patriotic masterpiece no matter how violent it is.

      • If it was "Manhunt 2: Search for Bin Laden" or "Manhunt 2: Kill All Terrorists" it would probably be lauded as a patriotic masterpiece no matter how violent it is.
        you mean like Postal^2 was? oh, wait...
    • Exactly. Wolfenstein and Doom both got off easy because of a demonized enemy (nazis and, well, demons). Plus it's very easy to post a comment with baseless accusations of hate and wrongdoing against a segment of the population with an image of baseless hate and wrongdoing. What an utterly intelligent post you have, Mr. Troll.

All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective owners. Comments are owned by the Poster. The Rest © 1997-2009 Geeknet, Inc.