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Nintendo Admits They May 'Lose Some Purists'
Posted by
Zonk
on Mon Jul 23, 2007 04:10 PM
from the five-year-old-action-me-is-offended dept.
from the five-year-old-action-me-is-offended dept.
njkid1 writes "GameDaily has up their full E3 interview with Nintendo of America's George Harrison, SVP of Marketing and Corporate Communications. Harrison talks about the move of the company's sales and marketing force, acknowledges that Nintendo may 'lose some purists' while attempting to broaden the audience, and he doesn't rule out a Wii revision: 'It's interesting, console hardware has always historically been on a sort of fixed, sequential pattern almost every five to six years and it takes you about five years to develop a new piece of console hardware. The handhelds and portables, like Game Boy and now DS, we've always been continuously innovating, and whenever we feel like it's time or have an upgrade, we'll do it, whether it's an improved screen for the handheld or slimmed down like the DS Lite - those types of things. So it's not out of the question on Wii, but we're not even to our second holiday yet, so it's kind of premature to talk about any revisions to the hardware itself.'"
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What's a purist? (Score:5, Insightful)
Until I played them.
Now Super Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time are considered all-time classics, even by 'purists', even by old hands like me. Should Mario have stayed true to his 2D roots to satisfy purists? Should Zelda have stayed top-down? Certainly not. Purism of that kind leads to stagnation; while the occasional throwback like New SMB is wonderful, games have to evolve or become stale.
Re:What's a purist? (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Re:What's a purist? (Score:5, Insightful)
Todays generation did not grow up with the old games so did not play them.
As someone who grew up with the older games I welcome the newer games because as an adult I can not afford to play games non stop for X hours.
Nintendo seems to know where things need to be if you ask me.
Parent
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Re:What's a purist? (Score:5, Interesting)
So is film, so is recorded music... hell, in the grand scheme of things, so is literature. These things have been around only a fraction of even human history, let alone the history of the world, and all of them are still rapidly evolving.
If your argument is that there can be no "purists" unless the art form is no longer "new" or "evolving", then there really cannot be purists of any art form.
I don't think it's a stretch to think there could be video game purists at this point. There are people who were there at the beginning and who have grown up with video games, knowing them a certain way. If they have developed a set of expectations based on those experiences, that would make them a purist.
You may not be one, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. It further doesn't mean that your opinion is superior to theirs.
Parent
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A certain way? What way is this? Infocom text game? Roguelike? Endless early-eighties high-score hunt? 2D platformer? JRPG? Block-sorting puzzle? Hegemonising god game? Rodent rescue operation? FPS? RTS?
Re:What's a purist? (Score:5, Insightful)
Movies? Relative newcomer. Movies are still in their infancy as an art form -- compared to other human artforms, not just geologic time as it seems you were doing. Movies are starting to have a significant history that would inform anyone calling themselves a "purist", though I've never heard someone doing so.
Video games? Not even three decades of existence, and founded on technology known for doubling its operational parameters in only two years. This isn't even comparable to the other art forms as far as having an established history, a canon to which one can wish to remain true as a "purist". In the grand scheme of things we're at the "discovering that banging a stick on a hollow tree stump in a regular beat makes a pleasing noise" phase. Acting like their is an established way for banging ones stick against a hollow tree stump against which new stump-stick-beaters should be judged is foolish, because there is an ongoing explosion of people trying various beaters and various objects upon which to beat and nobody has found a "good" way to do it.
Call me in 50 years, when we can look back on this period of infancy in video games, assuming we are not yet even in it, and we can discuss what "purity" means. In the meantime, there's no point because there simply isn't enough history, and yes that's different than other art forms.
Parent
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Until I played them.
Currently the opposite happened to me: I remember being extremely happy when I heard that Delphine Soft, the makers of "Flashback: The quest for Identity" made a 3d remake of their popular platformer. It was called "Fade to black".
Until I played it. Yuck
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Hula Hoop? (Score:3)
I don't know what kind of hula-hoop Harrison's been using, but there's usually no catching involved where I come from...
A Good Deal (Score:5, Interesting)
If you lose 100,000 purists but gain 50,000,000 new customers, then I'd say the tradeoff is a pretty good deal!
That being said, I haven't seen any sign of the Nintendo faithful ditching Nintendo. Everyone who was going to leave already left during the Gamecube generation. Now some of those players are coming back, and some of them are ranting about how they're "too grown up" for Nintendo now. I imagine that Nintendo will just shrug its shoulders and move on. They're creating a large enough NEW market that they don't need to worry about a vocal minority.
Personally, I tend to laugh at the "grown up" comments. What's "grown up"? Sex, violence, disturbing imagery, and online play that lets you swear at each other? I'm not really sure why any adult would want to exclusively subject themselves to such content, but that is their choice. It just doesn't make the "kiddie" argument against Nintendo any stronger.
When people use the term "too old" for something, they usually mean that the item in question can no longer support the person (e.g. a playground) or that it does not challenge the person at a level commiserate with their age. (e.g. Leapfrog Leapster) Thus the only argument I could see is that the storylines are too simplistic to hold an adult's attention. Which would be a good argument if we were talking about My Little Ponies. But half the games don't actually have storylines (e.g. Excite Truck, Metal Slug, Smash Bros., Strikers) and the majority of the remainder are anything but insulting. (e.g. Zelda, Super Paper Mario, Metroid, Red Steel, etc.)
The truth is that the Wii simply does not appeal to some people, regardless of the excuses they make up. Whether they used to be or not, these people are NOT Nintendo's customers any longer. Nintendo would be foolish to try and chase them around when the truth is that these customers are better satisfied elsewhere.
Re:A Good Deal (Score:5, Interesting)
It's a quirk of language. Adult content very rarely means just that; it usually means juvenile content. Gratuitous boobies, exciting gunplay, lots of blood, the typical action-movie recipe targeted at teenagers. Same goes for games. The core market right now is the Playstation generation, mostly boys who began gaming in around 1995 but who, twelve years on, are late teens and early twenties and want games that reinforce their image of themselves as manly men.
Nintendo's core market on the other hand is slightly older, NES and SNES veterans from the late eighties, early nineties. And as CS Lewis said, when I became a man I put aside childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be seen as being very grown up. The nice thing about having that as your core fanbase is that you can easily recruit the new generation of little kids with the same games you're selling to your base of gamers who are pushing thirty.
At any rate, Nintendo have never made bloodthirsty games. All the hardcore action games on the NES and SNES were made by the likes of Konami - I'm thinking Gradius or Contra here. The ultra-long JRPGs were again usually third party jobs, at least until the Pokémon era. I certainly can't speak for the whole demographic, but as a NES-era Nintendo fanboy who defected long ago to PC gaming, well, in this generation Nintendo have won me back. I said before that I was proved wrong in my traditionalism once before, insisting that Mario should be 2D, that Zelda should be top-down, right up until the moment I got hold of an N64 and played two of the greatest games there've ever been. What Nintendo are doing now... well, the third parties are making a bit of a hash of Wii at the moment, too many PS2 ports with poor Wiimote implementations, but going by the record of the DS they won't take too long to catch on.
Parent
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Blasphemy!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_(video_game) [wikipedia.org]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_Emblem [wikipedia.org]
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Re:A Good Deal (Score:5, Insightful)
"When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
Now if you'll excuse me, I've neglected a certain long-running saga of magicians and so forth since around 2002, and have three rather large volumes to catch up on before some git spoils the ending for me ;)
Parent
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meringuoid responded in a good way, but I have something further to add: If you have to constantly remind everyone that you're "grown up" or "mature" -- yo
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Oh Honestly! (Score:3, Funny)
purists? (Score:3, Insightful)
Don't get me wrong nethack is hard the first time you play on it (although it's such a good game). But as soon as you look at the controls and figure out that they use the vi commands for movement you can pick up and play - just add more detail into the game as and when you're ready... it goes with you more than the new games seem to.
Mario is an even better example, easy as you like at the start, gets harder... but very much "pick up and play".
The Wii follows from this "pick up and play" idea. That's where the purists should be, not playing these games that you get on the 360 (I went into gamestation and tried to play a game demo they'd got on - I couldn't even figure out how to do anything... there was about 800 context sensitive button combinations before you got to any kind of action... I'd already given up before that happened)
vi commands ARE thousands of button combinations (Score:2)
and yet you praise Nethack because all you have to do is
I agree with you though. Anyone off the street, so to speak, should be able to pick up a new game and figure out most of the controls within a few minutes of messing around with it. In fact, figuring the control scheme out should be part of the charm, not a horrifying ordeal.
Real 'Purists' aren't going anywhere (Score:5, Interesting)
The next game system I bought was a PS2, but a while after that I purchased a GameCube to catch up on all the new games that Nintendo had brought out. I eventually picked up an Xbox as well and even a used Dreamcast to complete that generation. I enjoyed all of them for different reasons and like every other generation there were some incredible games that were produced that you couldn't help but enjoy.
Last November I decided to camp out in front of a Wal-Mart and freeze my ass off so that I could get a Wii on launch day. After playing some of the latest incarnations of games (Zelda) and seeing what's in store for others (Mario, Metroid) I don't feel any differently about them than those old classics I played on the NES and SNES. As someone who's grown up around these Nintendo franchises I don't understand how people who claim to be long time fans can be disappointed in the Wii or the latest versions of their old favorites. I'm wondering if they really ever played and enjoyed these games or if their tastes have simply changed over the years. If you want bleeding edge graphics in your games, I suppose that's fine, but please don't try to pass yourself off as a purist if that's what you really want.
I'm quite glad that I grew up experiencing those games so that if I go back to play them today I'm not turned off by the lack of powerful graphics like some people are today. As cool as the graphical powerhouses that games such as Crysis and others like it with brilliant graphics are, will they ever be able to claim the same level of interest as Pac-Man ever commanded?
I don't think that purist should be confused with graphics whore, or whatever term would be most appropriate. I would think that purists play games to enjoy games, whether they're made using 8-bit sprites or ray traced using the powerful hardware we'll likely see in the future.
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NES, SNES, N64 or even the Gamecube had a lot of games beside Mario, Zelda and Metroid. StarFox, Pikmin, PilotWings, Waverace, YoshisIsland and all that stuff, it never was just about Mario/Zelda/Metroid alone. On the Wii however there really isn't much interesting happening beside Mario/Zelda/Metroid so 'puri
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Ironically, that's exactly what the purists wanted - indeed, what the purists insisted upon, very loudly. Remember the fuss, right here, when we first saw what Wind Waker was going to look like? Well, we got what we wished for. Twilight Princess: it's Ocarina but rather bigger and not quite as well lit.
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Anyone who considers themselves "hardcore" and rails against the Wii really need to re-evaluate why they game. I game because it's fun. Good gameplay is fun f
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"Re-Wii"? (Score:2)
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Tourney bastards? (Score:4, Funny)
...Isn't he...? (Score:2, Informative)
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To be fair, outside of Japan very few RPGs sell very well. That comment is how the general public feels about 99% of RPGs. Final Fantasy 7 obviously turned out to be one of the most glaring exceptions to that rule. It was popular mainly because of the presentation, not the gameplay though.
As for the cartridge format, yeah it's horrible if yo
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If that's what he says then I am one of his biggest fans. When the N64 and PS1 came out, CD technology was way too slow for consoles. Loading times on the PS1 and PS2 were unbearable for me. Sorry if that makes me sound impatient, but waiting minutes for things to load is not what consoles are about. Also, FF7 was terrible. It's really
Tales of Symphonia's sequel (Score:2)
Nintendo: all talk (Score:2)
If you take that list and remove everything that's a console download, a "classic" of some sort, a weird Japanese/manga game, a silly fi
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They can make a lot more cash getting three casual games that everyone will play out the door rather than beating their brains out over what the gaming gurus want in one extra purist title.
As long as enough decent games with long playtimes are around for the Wii, there's nothing wrong with it having bunches of titles that are something else. "Enough" doesn't neces
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All of those are sequels, many don't even look all that different from their predecessors. What is missing are the completly new non-casual-gamer-only franchises, stuff like StarFox, StuntRaceFX, WaveRace, Pikmin and friends. There simply isn't anything of similar quality around on the Wii or even announced.
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Which is a sequel to a sequel of a PS2 game called EverBlue, its still one of the more interesting games on the Wii, but not exactly of system-seller quality.
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Yes. I think they wanted to cause a little extra mayhem ;-)
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The Wii will be only slightly different; it became a household name sooner. The first year is still going to be lackluster. The second year and beyond will be good. The competition may not be as fully stomped as the DS's compet
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Harrison swallowed his gag reflex, as he hunched over the scene of tragedy. Kick marks were found all over the body, pieces of blackened skin jutted out like sharp knives, and the intestines had been ruthlessly crushed. Looking closer at one of the sli
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Sell it at a lower price so that someone who has different priorities or is not as privileged as you can purchase it?
There's a HUGE market of people who want second-hand game consoles. As long as you keep your kit in operating condition, I wouldn't worry too much about what happens to the old stuff. Simply trade it in at the local GAME for credit toward a new
Re:Hardware revisions (Score:4, Insightful)
What was the jump from DS to DS Lite? Physically smaller, brighter screen, longer battery life. Great for a portable. Utterly irrelevant for a home console. Nintendo might come out with a smaller Wii, as Sony did with the PS2, but that won't exactly obsolete the old ones. A hardware upgrade is a poor idea; you end up with Wii1 and Wii2 in the market at the same time, and developers who use the capabilities of Wii2 cut themselves off from the already enormous installed base of Wii1.
The obvious Wii upgrade would have to be a software jump: specifically, multimedia. I'm on record from last November as saying that DVD playing doesn't matter to me, because everyone has a DVD player already. I've cooled on that. The Wii is on, it's connected right the hell now, I can't be bothered messing with switches, the damn thing's got a remote control, I want to play a DVD in it. And since the Wii's a device on my wireless network, I'd be awfully happy if it could play video files from my PC over the network. I've an awful lot of anime I'd love to watch on the big screen downstairs. If they'd just get the mplayerhq.hu guys to produce a version for Wii that they could put out for download, that would be just great ;-)
Parent
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Making an assumption on the context behind your original argument, can I reword it this way so you aren't technically flip-
Re:Time Measurement (Score:4, Informative)
Atari's primary competitor at the time, the Maganvox Odyssey, was sold year-round. However, its sales were relatively poor in comparison.
And there is your useless bit'o'trivia for the day.
Parent