World of Warcraft - Wrath of the Lich King Officially Announced

An anonymous reader writes "Wrath of the Lich King is official! BlizzCon is in full swing, and celebrants there are already enjoying the Northrend-themed imagery. For a look at what's going on, Joystiq has a liveblog of the opening ceremony up. Games For Windows magazine, meanwhile, will feature WLK its next cover. The post on the 1up site has a number of details on the next expansion, including the introduction of the Death Knight, the first new class since WOW's launch 'World of WarCraft's first Hero Class is a plate-wearing tank/DPS hybrid that works a little something like this: When players hit level 80, they'll be able to embark on a quest (similar in difficulty to the Warlock's epic mount quest, back before the level cap was raised to 70) that unlocks the ability to create a Death Knight character. The Death Knight starts at a high level (somewhere around 60 or 70, though Blizzard isn't certain yet), so you won't have to grind your way back up all over again. It's intended as an alternative, advanced class for end-game use only.'."

wow

[quaketripp (621850)]

an alternative, high-end crack-cocaine for more advanced fiends.

Re:wow

[e2d2 (115622)]

Except with cocaine you don't have to grind for 10 hours to get a "hit".

Re:wow

[by Anonymous Coward]

Yea, usually crack ho's only need 3-5 hours of grinding before earning enough for a hit.

Re:wow

[Chris Burke (6130)]

Yea, usually crack ho's only need 3-5 hours of grinding before earning enough for a hit.

Sounds great, but I'm not sure I want to do the quest line that unlocks that hero class. :P

Re:wow

[mcpkaaos (449561)]

With cocaine, the 10 hours of grinding comes after the hit.

So more grind...

[Number13 (641387)]

The old EQ Skinner Box model strikes again. Every year or so, release an expansion that completely invalids any progress made in the last expansion. Problem is, it works as a money making venture, so other games follow the same suit rather than attempting to create games where content is for fun rather than for grind.

Re:So more grind...

[Metasquares (555685)]

In the long run, however, it tends to kill the game.

Re:So more grind...

[Tackhead (54550)]

> The old EQ Skinner Box model strikes again. Every year or so, release an expansion that completely invalids any progress made in the last expansion. Problem is, it works as a money making venture, so other games follow the same suit rather than attempting to create games where content is for fun rather than for grind
>
>In the long run, however, it tends to kill the game.

"How do you kill that which has no life?"

Easy. Release an expansion pack for Star Wars Galaxies.

Re:

[LKM (227954)]

"How do you kill that which has no life?"

Just take the scroll out of its head, I guess.

Re:So more grind...

[shakingbrave (1136495)]

/sigh You do realize that the best geared guilds progress the fastest in the next expansion because they're the best geared for it. Granted they're going to upgrade their gear as they go, but they start with a significant advantage. So how is that "invalidating any progress" they made? If anything WoW is better than any other MMO I've played (EQ blaaah) for the sheer fact that they update content/balance/etc the game so much. And they do a bunch of it for "free" as well (read: you don't have to buy another expansion), they've released some monster patches. And also, creating a class that starts at lvl 60 or 70 is taking away the grind and adding to the fun, so I don't get that remark either???

Re:So more grind...

[zerocool^ (112121)]

If anything WoW is better than any other MMO I've played (EQ blaaah) for the sheer fact that they update content/balance/etc the game so much. And they do a bunch of it for "free" as well (read: you don't have to buy another expansion), they've released some monster patches.

Welcome, from those of us at eve-online.

All our expansions and patches are free. No stringing people along waiting for the expansion. Also, I think I might have paid $20 for the game, which included the first month fee (usually $15).

Re:

[Blakey Rat (99501)]

Yes, but in WOW you can do things other than mining in the first 10 hours of gameplay. It takes a certain kind of personality to play EVE for longer than a few hours.

Re:So more grind...

[ameoba (173803)]

...as long as you're willing to start playing a game where you know'll forever be the bitch of some guy that's been playing since launch. At least WOW gives you a realistic shot at catching up with The Big Kids.

If I wanted that kind of depressing reality, I wouldn't need to be playing games.

Re:

[toleraen (831634)]

The players that raid 40+ hours a week, that progress the fastest, tend to make up a very low % of the population. Most people haven't made it all the way through the last expansion, so any work they made towards getting to "the end" becomes moot, because they'll have to start all over again on the new, improved, better loot content. For people with not that much time, it sucks.

It goes the other way too, with people who did raid 40+ hours a week, only to find their full suit of level 60 purples get shown

Re:

[MBGMorden (803437)]

It goes the other way too, with people who did raid 40+ hours a week, only to find their full suit of level 60 purples get shown up by BC green loot you can find at the AH for 10G.

Not to mention the fact that if you step away from the game for a while, say a year or so because you need a break, you're basically obsoleted when you come back, and have to bust your butt to become competitive (at Raiding or PVP) again.

No other real world hobby is like that. I have off and on spells where I get tired of one or the other, but aside from gaming I fish, target shoot, fence, fly, and build models. If I get tired of fencing and decide to take a break for a year or two, then when I come back

Re:

[egburr (141740)]

I took a year break from playing, knowing that my character would be there when I came back, if I decided to. When I did decide to come back, I would have been very upset if my character had been deleted, and would have changed my mind right then. The threat to delete my character would not keep me paying when I'm not playing; it would keep me frem returning.

Re:So more grind...

[Zironic (1112127)]

Since you can't create content faster then people use it up you have to create content that has to be re doable (grinding). Blizzard has at least made their grinding more enjoyable then the other MMO's I've tried so far.

However at the moment it might seem that Blizzard is releasing new content a bit fast, I've yet to decide if that's a good or bad thing.

Re:

[east coast (590680)]

Problem is, it works as a money making venture, so other games follow the same suit rather than attempting to create games where content is for fun rather than for grind.

The solution to your problem is word it so that it seems new and exciting instead of rehashing what you've just done (and redone).

It gets old but most people don't realize this until after they've already gone through it a couple of times. The same can be said for most expansion packs MMORPG or not.

And I'll be honest, when creating a ti

Re:So more grind...

[everphilski (877346)]

Every year or so, release an expansion that completely invalids any progress made in the last expansion.

More than once a year. We are running on 14 expansions in 8 years. But I disagree. Have you ever played EQ? There are basically 3 things that can get added in any given expansion, beyond land mass
1) more gear / items
2) Level cap increase
3) More Alternate Advancement points available to purchase
You always get 1. 2 happens every other or every third expansion. 3 happens about out of cycle from 2, it seems. You are probably complaining because a new expansion invalidates your gear. Well suck it up. You are no less efficient a day after the new expansion grinding the old mobs, than you were the day before. But to enter the new areas, yes, it will be a challenge. Cry me a river.

Raising the level caps? That's just a part of life. Without that, the game stagnates. Again, you can cry me a river and I won't care.

Now, here is the beauty of Everquest, in my opinion. AA's. They give you a reason to live after you hit max level. You can funnel your experiance from grinding into ability points. These give you abilities not unlike talents in WoW, but a hell of a lot more of them. And you aren't restricted in how many you can obtain.
Endless treadmill? Only if you make it such.

Casual gamers?

[Andrew Nagy (985144)]

It's intended as an alternative, advanced class for end-game use only.

I feel a great disturbance in the force. As if millions of casual gamers suddenly cried out in terror, and then were suddenly silenced.

Seriously, though. I hear people on WoW complaining about "the grind" which to me is the best part. I like questing from 1 to 70. I like experiencing the story and still being able to play with friends if I want. If they're going to start only catering to the "end-game" users, maybe my WoW time is coming to an end. Full time job, side consultant jobs, a wife, a kid on the way, and everything else just doesn't leave a lot of room for a raid schedule.

Re:Casual gamers?

[SatanicPuppy (611928)]

I don't think it means that really. I think what it's actually for is for people like you (and me) who get to 80 and go, "Well great! Now what the fuck do I do?" Now there is an answer: "Switch to death knight (or whatever the frilly alliance equivalent will end up being), and then level back up to 80!" Leveling is always rife with solo content, so you'd have the fun of switching your class, and doing some more solo play, rather than the eternal instance/raid grind.

Of course, if you're a quest-a-holic this could be an issue because if you've done all the quests, you might have to grind your way back to 80 and that would suck.

Re:Casual gamers?

[VGPowerlord (621254)]

FYI: Blizzard is currently claiming [worldofwarcraft.com] that Death Knights will be available to both Horde and Alliance.

*throws continuity out the window*

Having said that, I expect that to change.

Re:

[moderatorrater (1095745)]

I feel they've done a good job balancing it up to this point and I don't see any reason to think they won't continue to do so. My father-in-law has gone solo all the way up to 65 the last I heard.

Re:

[Knara (9377)]

Well, it remains to be seen how they'll handle the 70-80 stuff. BC added some killer quest content for the BE's and Drae (mostly 1-20 but some elsewhere), so I can't imagine that you wouldn't be able to quest from 70 to 80.

Re:Casual gamers?

[Brownstar (139242)]

End Game != raiding or even non-casual.

And for someone like you, that enjoys leveling toons, this sounds like a great addition.

Get to level 80 with your toon, and you unlock the ability to level another toon from 60 to 80, allowing you to see in new content you might have missed in the XPAC with your first toon.

Re:Casual gamers?

[Chris Burke (6130)]

Seriously, though. I hear people on WoW complaining about "the grind" which to me is the best part. I like questing from 1 to 70.

Uh, yeah, I guess some people complain about the leveling "grind", but really WoW has one of the nicest leveling phases, replete with quests and things to do to fit a variety of playstyles.

"The grind" that everyone complains about is the one you do after reaching the level cap. The endless, endless rep grinding for faction rewards, heroic instance keys, etc etc. And actually despite there being more reps to grind, they aren't as bad as pre-expansion when the lvl 60 rep grinds were horrible time sinks of repetitive killing. Grinding Cenarian Hold or Argent Dawn rep was as arduous as the 1-60 leveling process, but much, much more boring. Or remember when you got to go farm for cloth so that other people could get to run a raid instance? That's what people complain about.

The leveling "grind" is great for casuals. It's the top-level content that at best tolerates casuals by giving them mindless repetitive tasks to perform.

Re:Casual gamers?

[Archimonde (668883)]

Uh, yeah, I guess some people complain about the leveling "grind", but really WoW has one of the nicest leveling phases, replete with quests and things to do to fit a variety of playstyles.

What are you talking about? Are we playing the same game*? Leveling is the most boring part of the game period. Sure, leveling your first character can be fun, but with every other character you end up doing the same boring quests, killing the same monsters etc. And what play styles? There is only one play style when leveling. Grinding by killing monsters. Endless fun.
Not.

"The grind" that everyone complains about is the one you do after reaching the level cap.

Yes and no. The grind is omnipresent before and after level 70. No one can deny that.

Or remember when you got to go farm for cloth so that other people could get to run a raid instance? That's what people complain about.

They kinda complain about that but not as much 1-70 grind. It is horrible. But well, people complain about everything in WoW (many of those complaints do have merit though), but saying that leveling is great (as in fun) part of the game is like saying that working on the assembly line is the most interesting job in the world.

The leveling "grind" is great for casuals.

Yes it is a grind, and yes it the worst part of WoW.

* I did quit, before I ruined my life.

Re:

[Chris Burke (6130)]

That's funny, I found leveling to be lots of fun. Mostly because while yes you are killing lots of monsters (duh i wouldn't be playing a combat-based rpg if that wasn't what I wanted to do) it comes in the form of quests where you go after -different- monsters, or you have to infiltrate some hideout to find a specific named monster, or if you can find a group you can go level in instances.

If you can't see any difference between grinding and any form of gameplay that involves killing monsters, then it doesn

Re:

[Himring (646324)]

Plus, if you play wow you're supporting the terrorists [slashdot.org].

Or, heck, for that matter, might be one....

Another hybrid....

[cthulu_mt (1124113)]

Blizzard already did a poor job making the current hybrid classes playable. I don't think another one will improve the game.

Re:

[Zironic (1112127)]

hmm, arn't there already 2 Tank/DPS hybrids called Paladin and Warrior?

I would have expected the Death Knight to be a melee plate dps/debuff class.

Re:

[SatanicPuppy (611928)]

Three. You forgot the druid.

Re:

[everphilski (877346)]

druid has never been a hybrid. Was not in EQ, or EQ2, is not in WoW.

What makes a paladin a hybrid is the fact that it is literally, half warrior, half cleric. Gimped at both.

And the DK, I presume, will be the equivalent of EQ's shadowknight, half warrior, half necromancer.

Re:

[faloi (738831)]

I haven't played in a while, so maybe they fixed it up some... But even when my Warlock had finally made it near 70 (got burned out before I finished the last two levels), playing the debuff class, I really didn't have much in the way of debuffs. At least that were really worth casting, and certainly not worth trying to stack.

Re:

[UnknowingFool (672806)]

I'm guessing that the Death Knight would be a cross between a Warrior and a Rogue. A Paladin is kinda a hybrid between and Warrior and a Priest.

Levelling

[Colin Smith (2679)]

Reminds me of geocentrism. Works for a while but the exceptions and problems build until it's over complex and unwieldy.
 

In my best Shatner...

[wickedj (652189)]

Arthas!!!

PS - The lameness filter won't let me shout in caps.

Mid Level Content

[Idylwyld (324288)]

WTF? So we got new early game and end game content in BC which was great. But where's the love for the mid levellers?

And what's up with an "unlockable" end game class? Too lazy to balance the new class all the way through?

plate DPS hybrid

[sokoban (142301)]

Isn't that what Mortal Strike or Fury warriors were before they got smacked with the nerf bat?

Wrath of the Licking?

[makohund (10086)]

Eh?

That's how it reads to me, anyway.

Obviously, I'm not much of a gamer.

Screw the Lich King....

[Cyno01 (573917)]

Hurry up with the Emerald Dream.

Blizzard don't learn...

[abigsmurf (919188)]

Again with the focus on End game and a 10 level rise. Not only will it now take months for the average gamer to reach endgame, they'll have to deal with the broken level 70 content as well as the broken level 60 content. I'm sure lots of people who started from scratch will remember the 'fun' of spending 500g leveling craft from 290-300 so you can then craft BC stuff, have class quests which require trying to find people willing to spend 4 hours in an instance with obsolete goods. With people leveling 60-70 post 2nd expansion they'll probably have all the fun of rep grinding as well as the empty instances they need to complete. Blizzard focus on endgame and ignore everything else. WoW is crying out for an anti-DPS class that can take out rogues and mages and have a strong focus on debuffs (spell breakers perhaps) but the devs are too lazy to balance level 1-70 content for a new class. Instead they're going the easy route and making endgame only classes

Re:Blizzard don't learn...

[Kjella (173770)]

No, players don't learn. Hint: You're never ever going to be that überhero with all maxed skills and equipment unless you grind like crazy. And a little while after that, we'll release a new expansion with new levels, new equipment which you'll have to continue to grind if you want to stay on top. It's the pot of gold that keeps moving away as you approach it, like the frigging rainbow. And the players say "Thank you, may I have another please?" because Blizzard recently announced they were up to NINE million subscribers, which either means they have a) high turnover and tens of millions have tried it or b) they keep coming back for more, and I believe in b).

I have two friends that are pretty much the archetypes of WoW. One is a father of one (soon two), very relaxed about it all and playing it because he's having a good time. He'll do just fine. The other... well, he seems to want to "win" Wow, grinding away like crazy. You should almost think having a mega-character in WoW was some sort of investment, when you talk to him. Perhaps if you sold your account you'd get a pittance, but more likely he'll just keep it until it's no longer worth much - an expansion later and it won't be. I know hobbies don't need to be "productive", but something is wrong when you talk about it as if it were and it isn't. I mean, one thing is if you're a craftsman and make items - real, permanent and durable. Another is whatever you crafted in WoW which is a collection of pixels that'll be obsolete and worthless in a while, and meaningless if you quit WoW.

A better idea would have been casual classes

[WillAffleckUW (858324)]

Newspaper reporters - you start gathering news items, become a town crier when not out in the field.

Battlefield surgeons - you go into the arenas not for Honor from killing but Honor from saving lives - and the chance for really neat medical equipment.

Philosophers - look, noone knows what they do anyway, even if one of my Ph.D. friends who discovered most of the Tuberculosis infection mechanisms got a degree in that, so WoW could make almost anything up about this and get away with it.

Bard - songs, stories, travelling to distant lands to get new songs and musical instruments, and so on, hanging out in bars, what more can one ask - also raises morale for parties, so people let you tag along.

Things like this that casual gamers could play and feel they are progressing no matter what else goes on.

End game in WoW since BC isn't just about raiding.

[juuri (7678)]

A lot of posters seem to miss what I feel was the true saving grace of WoW, heroic mode dungeons. It's no secret that once you hit 70 and gear up, if you aren't a blubbering moron WoW becomes obvious for how simple it is. If you have been gaming for years, the only challenge you might find is rolling with a crappy group or some pvp encounters. Before BC you could be a *really* good WoW player but unless you raided you were essentially shut out from some of the best gear and by proxy were at a disadvantage in pvp (unless you were willing to grind insane amounts of time).

Heroic content, get this, can actually be quite hard. The concept at first seems flawed. "Oh boy monsters that can one shot people and are higher level, woopity." But the reality is that it forces each member of a 5 man group to be competent and for many of the more difficult encounters actually skilled. Because of the difficulty a 5 man player, non-raider, who only plays a few hours a week can actually attain gear on par with people who do raid days a week. Is this fair? In my opinion it is, the challenge of most raid content is learning the encounter and the logistics involved. The challenge in heroic 5 man content is each player making very few mistakes over the course of an entire run and playing their class and talent spec extremely well.

Heroics aren't all perfect but as a first go they show a real understanding on Blizzard's part that players can be rewarded for skill and not just grinding/time invested. One of the biggest flaws is the rep requirements for running them, while normal questing will get you close on a few of them, some do require you to go out of your way to achieve. In addition it is possible to "wipe" your way through content if your group sucks, it takes forever and costs a fortune in repairs, but it is possible.

I've raided in WoW and found it to be lacking, learning an encounter is fun and the first few kills are thrilling, but the time investment is quite insane. The same thrill comes to me from a really good heroic run, say one where everyone is top notch and you blow through a place with no deaths at a blistering pace.

WoW isn't perfect, but it is a hell of a lot better since BC. If the same level of improvement comes with the next expansion it will be very hard for anything other than "tiredness of the story/world/lore" to unseat them as #1 in America.

First we lose lvl 60 content, now they kill lvl 70

[Domini (103836)]

I remember all the cool dungeons, the paced Strat UD, the sprawling and details BRD, the interesting and varied UBRS, the cool ZG and not to mention Scholo, AQ20, AQ40, BWL and Naxx.

Then came the BC expansion just as I was about to at least finish these dungeons and everyone ran onto the new higher level green BC gear and I could not get people to run these old instances anymore (and who could blame them... it was too easy and the items were lame for BC players)

All of these instances were basically rendered useless... there is no point in them other than a brief popping into them during the brief 59-61 period.

I am a late-game content player, but I still love the grind and questing... the grind and questing has not been affected by this and is still fun.

Now comes a new expansion which is basically going to render all these lvl 70 dungeons useless JUST as we (our guild) barely finished Kara. Not even started on any of the serious dungeons because we were not ready.

So now I must pay because they are *replacing* a lot of content with new content? (Sure they do add a little as well...) It does not seem fair. And not paying and staying at lvl 70 until I can finish Kara lvl 70 is not an option because there will be no-one else to play along with.

Yea, perhaps it's time to have a look at Lord of the Rings Online... or go back to playing Diablo II.

Hehe...

Re:

[Zironic (1112127)]

Resistance is futile, prepare to be assimilated.

Re:

[afidel (530433)]

I resubscribed for BC and quickly realized that the expansion did nothing to fundamentally change the gameplay which meant it was still kill x of y or deliver q to z. That made the week of playing the most expensive game I've ever played between the expansion pack and the 3 month subscription.

Re:

[SighKoPath (956085)]

Sounds like Jedi from Star Wars Galaxies.

Re:

[Andrew Nagy (985144)]

I would say yes. I don't have a lot of time but find enough to play casually pretty well up to this point. But if you try it, try to play long enough to at least get to level 20 or you won't get a great idea of how fun it is. Cheers!