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Striking Writers May Work on Games

Posted by Zonk on Tue Nov 27, 2007 12:34 PM
from the fewer-hackneyed-cliches-sounds-like-a-good-thing dept.
Entertainment Games
The ongoing Writer's Guild strike may soon impact even the games industry. While most of the copy writers working on games are not a part of the guild, via Eurogamer comes a Variety article about a possible Hollywood writer's migration to other media. "While the WGA has made no secret that it would like to eventually cover vidgame writing, it hasn't pushed the issue yet and is allowing members to work on games during the strike. 'It has been an interesting shift," says one tenpercenter who focuses on vidgames. "The literary agents are now saying, 'Why don't we get our clients over there during the strike?' even though in the past they thought the money wasn't good enough or the work is too demanding.'"
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[+] News: Writers Guild Members Look to Internet Distribution 156 comments
stevedcc writes "The Guardian is running an article about members of the Writer's Guild, still on strike, creating their own ventures to deliver content over the internet. The intention is to get their work to consumers while bypassing the movie studios. Their effort will include actors and directors, and it is not the first step they have taken to expand their interests during the strike. One particular project is said to include A-list talent, and will be released in roughly 50 daily segments before going to DVD. This is also relevant to the strike because, as the article states, 'at the core of the current dispute is the question of how to reimburse writers for work that is distributed on the internet.'"
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  • Is this good or bad? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by 644bd346996 (1012333) on Tuesday November 27 2007, @12:36PM (#21494169)
    I'm not sure whether I should rejoice that more games will be getting competent writers, or weep that gaming is going to be degraded to sitcom quality.

    • Re:Is this good or bad? (Score:5, Funny)

      by everphilski (877346) on Tuesday November 27 2007, @12:38PM (#21494189) Journal
      That's what she said.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by ByOhTek (1181381)
      Worse than sitcoms.

      There are soap opera writers in that crowd, aren't there?

    • I'm not sure whether I should rejoice that more games will be getting competent writers, or weep that gaming is going to be degraded to sitcom quality.
      Looking at some voice acting done even today, "sitcom quality" may very well still be a step up.

      *cough* Resident Evil Outbreak *cough*

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Seumas (6865)
      The reason I have no sympathy for striking writers (aside from the fact that I don't think BOOK authors have unions and I don't want to hear a bunch of starving artists cry about being starving artists while the rest of us have REAL jobs for a living) is that there are very few writers who deserve to have their jobs. Much less negotiate stronger contracts.

      Line them all up Pink Floyd style and let's have all of them shot.

      • The reason I have no sympathy for striking writers (aside from the fact that I don't think BOOK authors have unions and I don't want to hear a bunch of starving artists cry about being starving artists while the rest of us have REAL jobs for a living) is that there are very few writers who deserve to have their jobs. Much less negotiate stronger contracts.

        Line them all up Pink Floyd style and let's have all of them shot.

        I sort of agree most Hollywood stuff is dreck but writers are the lowest on the Hollywood totem. Good ones can make extremely good entertainment (Canon O'Brian penned arguably the best Simpson's episodes. After he left it's been down hill.) Having a union evens out the wages so it's not multi-millions for popular ones and pittance for others. It enables people who can tell stories to be employed. I personally think that no matter what you do around 80% or more of everything is crap. So by enabling more peo

        • Why not have writers paid what their work is worth, rather than paying people when their work is terrible. I think this promotes the wrong thing. If your writing is really good and ends up creating a popular show, then you should get paid a lot. However, if your writing sucks, and the people don't watch your show, you should get paid less. Maybe if writers got paid based on the value of their work, there would be less crappy writers. If you know you are a crappy writer, but that you are being paid well

          • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

            by Orange Crush (934731)

            If your writing is really good and ends up creating a popular show, then you should get paid a lot. However, if your writing sucks, and the people don't watch your show, you should get paid less.

            It already works that way. If you write bad shows/movies that don't get watched, the show gets canceled and you're out of a job. Shows that don't get watched don't get rerun and don't sell DVDs, so no residuals either. And as reputation-based as the entertainment industry is, if you have a habit writing flops,

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by jacobw (975909)

        The reason I have no sympathy for striking writers (aside from the fact that I don't think BOOK authors have unions and I don't want to hear a bunch of starving artists cry about being starving artists while the rest of us have REAL jobs for a living) is that there are very few writers who deserve to have their jobs. Much less negotiate stronger contracts.

        First off, I should say that I'm a WGA member, but I'm not speaking for the WGA. This is all my opinion. That out of the way:

        We aren't crying about be

    • What? You don't want the "Everyone Loves Raymond" MMORPG?

      What's WRONG WITH YOU!?

    • The writers aren't likely to see any work on video game projects. The game industry is like most others in that you are generally paid for a job, not paid residuals. Also writing is a lesser part of a game than it is of a movie. In a movie, the whole plot has to be provided. In a game, the player themselves provides a lot of it, the game is more of a framework. Some kinds of games often need very little writing at all. Civ 4 would be a good example. There is technical writing in terms of documentation, but

      • I am not making this up, there really seems to a The Sims movie in the works... If hollywood can screw up game movies with single paragraph plots, what the hell will they do with a game that HAS NO PLOT?

        • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

          by lluBdeR (466879)
          1. Waste an assload of money every step of the way to make sure it has an 8 or 9 digit budget
          2. Make sure news about the latter half of point 1 is leaked
          3. Throw a bunch of big names into it so people "in the know" will go see it even though it's a piece of crap
          4. Give out very nice, very expensive (see point #1) gift bags at the premiere so it gets good review
          5. Plan sequels, hire Saw production team as they seem adept at getting people to watch the same movie over and over again

          Wait, that sounds alarmingly like

          • Waste an assload of money every step of the way to make sure it has an 8 or 9 digit budget
            They will make up the revenue by selling "The Sims 2: The Sims Movie Expansion Pack", which will contain approximately one new 'novel' item and about 100 of the objects you already have but in different colors. Perhaps they will include an Angelina Jolie model/skin. Then you can make her have lesbian sex with the neighbors. SIGN ME UP!!!
        • They will spend millions to hire the big name voice actors, and then spend a few more millions to give them all lessons in Simlish.

          I have a snippet of the script, if you're interested...

          Angelina Jolie: Mwa hama mu mu gunya! Do do do do. Manna manna.

          So touching. *weeps*

  • Great... just what I needed. (Score:3, Funny)

    by RyanFenton (230700) on Tuesday November 27 2007, @12:45PM (#21494301)
    Games that require laugh tracks.

    Honestly though, most of my favorite works in gaming have involved professional writers really taking the time to craft a great work of fiction in a game (especially Planescape: Torment.)

    Ryan Fenton

  • consider some of the top selling games... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by wakim1618 (579135) on Tuesday November 27 2007, @12:52PM (#21494395)
    such as world of warcraft or the madden football sequels or civilization. How much value could a hollywood writer add to the storyline?

    Or consider games such as halo 3, crysis or the grand theft auto series where the storyline is important. But it is the design of the game that is ultimately more important and provides a framework within which the writers work. In other words, the value-added of a hollywood writer in this case seems limited.

    In each of the above examples, I see the involvement of sit-com and action-movie writers as a big negative. The story line in games can be silly at times ... but never as stupid or lame as in the vast majority of tv shows and movies out of hollywood.

    • Games sure could use some great writers, perhaps we could talk to these Hollywood/tv writers and ask them if they know any, you never know, they might have bumped into them at some time.

    • Or maybe you could consider a game that's not MMORPG or action? Single player RPGs and adventure game would especially benefit.

    • such as world of warcraft or the madden football sequels or civilization. How much value could a hollywood writer add to the storyline?

      Or consider games such as halo 3, crysis or the grand theft auto series where the storyline is important. But it is the design of the game that is ultimately more important and provides a framework within which the writers work. In other words, the value-added of a hollywood writer in this case seems limited.

      In each of the above examples, I see the involvement of sit-com and action-movie writers as a big negative. The story line in games can be silly at times ... but never as stupid or lame as in the vast majority of tv shows and movies out of hollywood.

      A lot of games could really use a dialog rewrite. some of the dialog is terrible. Off the top of my head Marvel Ultimate alliance could. Of course some movies Movies [imdb.com] Could as well.

    • Well, yeah, the Warcraft lore is pretty huge, overall. They could write a pretty major movie based on Warcraft, and it would be majorly successful, regardless of the Warcraft series' success, just because of the kickass compelling story. Have you played the games? The games in themselves are very very story-driven as it is (if you pay attention to the dialogue and read the manuals that have a bunch of history/story in them). [side note... No wonder I started to feel like newer games sucked - very few ga
    • there are many examples that can be added to this list, which are games far surpassing others with their storylines.

  • Screenwriters vs. Authors (Score:5, Insightful)

    by JBMcB (73720) on Tuesday November 27 2007, @01:04PM (#21494553)
    I'd rather have authors write the storylines to video games. Screenwriters specialize in storylines that are constrained by time, authors specialize in storylines that are, well, good.

  • [generic response] (Score:5, Funny)

    by nuzak (959558) on Tuesday November 27 2007, @01:04PM (#21494555) Journal
    <faux-intellectual commentary>

    <elitist crap>

    <broad general dismissal>

    Sorry, my own writers are on strike, but I see everyone else is busy mad-libbing their own attitudes toward their hate of all things sitcoms and reality tv as if that's all there ever was out there. You think you're gaining some kind of "cred" with your oh-so-jaded attitudes?
    • These same jaded dorkberts prbably secretly watch American Idol and actually vote. Yeah, ooh, like, I'm all intellectual and crap, I never watch TV. Yeah right. There is actually some damn good writing going on on television, better than we've seen in years. But you're obviously too busy stimulating your brain with Halo 3 and fricken' Slashdot discussions. Boy howdy, you sure are a real intelektshul.
      • "..better than we've seen in years."

        Such as?

        OTOH, it's hard for me to feel any sympathy for someone who wants to be paid for the same work over and over again.

        I bet a lot of aircraft factory workers would like to get paid every time a ticket is sold.

        • Huh? aircraft factory workers are not engaged in creating artistic works, they are engaged in creating physical objects. You don't think the artists should get the money, you think the fatcat business owners should? Why?

          Now, as far as original writing, off the top of my head, on public channels we've got Ugly Betty, which may be a copy of a Latin soap opera, but is nonetheless original and creative writing. We've got The Reaper, which is some of the most hilarious writing since Buffy. There's The Big Bang t
          • My biggest beef is that a lot of the good shows get canceled, because they don't appeal to a large enough audience. I showed my dad an episode of Big Bang Theory, and he thought it was hilarious, extremely funny, and yet the next thing he said was that it wouldn't last. How many people do you think actually get most of the jokes on that show? The doppler effect costume is ironic in this effect. Nobody at the party got his costume, even when it was explained to them. I think the same could be said about
      • Good writing... on TV?!
        • It all depends on what you watch. I don't watch too much TV except usually college basketball/football on the weekends, but I've really gotten into Heroes. I think it is exceptionally well written.
    • Physician, heal yourself.

      If you're going to troll the trolls, you need a more subtle lead in.
  • Yeah! That'll really stick it to Vivendi!

  • Welcome Writers of "The Office" (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Bryansix (761547) on Tuesday November 27 2007, @01:28PM (#21494895) Homepage
    I for one welcome the writers for "The Office" to come help write the storyline for a game. That show is great and that kind of humor could transfer well into a game with a little work.

  • Hollywood writers are good? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by AHumbleOpinion (546848) on Tuesday November 27 2007, @01:34PM (#21494961) Homepage
    Why are so many people acting as if Hollywood writers are good? Go to your local bookstore and buy some of those compilations of the year's best science fiction short stories. Read the stories. I think these upcoming authors would form a far more valuable talent pool. If you look at some of the older compilations you will notice some short stories that have become movies and the true value of the typical Hollywood writer becomes painfully apparent.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      I don't think it's that the Hollywood writers are poor - you don't get a high-paying gig without having some skills. I think it's a matter of their producers instructing them to dumb down the content - apparently, simple slop sells. Blame the drooling masses that so obviously soak up the dribble that passes as 'prime time content', as reinforced by the high ratings of these shows.

      Indeed - everyone should go to the bookstore. I totally agree. Or rather, let them stay home and gel on their sofas...I'll gl
    • Not to defend all the writers, but usually it goes something like this: Writer creates an outline, perhaps a first draft. Outline/Draft then goes to director and ultimately the producers for comment/suggestions/etc.. Generally it's at this stage where what the writer intended to write and what the producers want to see start to diverge.

      I remember seeing a lecture by Kevin Smith once talking about how he was contracted to write a superhero movie (An early incarnation of what was eventually Superman Retur

  • Why is it that in America is is illegal for companies to fix prices and perfectly legal for individuals to fix wages?

    If companies were allowed to collude on prices the consumer loses, and thus the economy loses. Why is it that no one seems to be able to see that when individuals collude on wages businesses lose, thus the consumer loses, and finally the economy loses?

    Here in Utah there was a raging debate recently about how to "fix" public education by allowing a voucher system. The argument was that this

    • Re:Guilds, Associations, Unions, etc. (Score:4, Informative)

      by edremy (36408) on Tuesday November 27 2007, @03:16PM (#21496423)
      Back in the day, before unions, houses were built by the thousands with bricks. Not because they were the best, or the cheapest, but because it was the style. The bricklayers, feeling that they were being grifted, unionized, as was the style of the time. Very quickly the cost of building with bricks became too prohibitive, and the bricklayers mostly lost their jobs. Overall society didn't hurt too much, but it had a large impact on the southern California economy.

      Southern California? Having lived there, I can tell you unionization had very little to do with not having brick houses. California doesn't have brick houses because they fall down in earthquakes.

      • That's why I said "back in the day." I don't recall the exact dates, but we're talking dozens of years before people stopped building/buying earthquake coded houses. Goverment regulation on coding really jumstarted with the San Francisco earthquake.
    • This one's easy. Either you have above average resources (money, etc) or below average resources. If you have below average, you benefit from socialism (including unions), whereas if you have above average, socialism tends to hurt you. It turns out that a majority of people in any group tends to have below average resources. This majority is easily able to use their votes to make their desired socialism legal. These businesses you mention don't have enough votes to make price fixing legal.

      This has
      • Socialism doesn't help below average earners. There is not one example in all of history where the goverment has been able to adequetely manage the economy to the point of bringing everyone out of poverty. The only socialized countries that do well are ones that already had an above average standard of living.

        In India the government used to (until rather recently) highly regulate all imports and exports to protect the local economy and the local impoverished population. Of course after many years they've

    • Re:Guilds, Associations, Unions, etc. (Score:4, Informative)

      by damn_registrars (1103043) on Tuesday November 27 2007, @03:27PM (#21496573) Journal

      and perfectly legal for individuals to fix wages?


      Frankly, that statement just doesn't hold water. Neither the individual part, nor the fix wages part have much grounding in reality.

      First of all, the union isn't about the individual. Its about the union, hence the name union. The union is concerned with seeing that all of its members get a fair shake. There is no individual action within a union, for better or for worse. The union instead goes by something like the strength in numbers principle, using the collective strength of its members together.

      But equally wrong is your statement about fixing wages. The union isn't trying to fix wages - that would be communism. The union is just trying to ensure that the wage floor is adequate for full time work. In the example you were complaining about regarding the teachers union, the union wants to ensure that full time teachers make an adequate salary when they start. They don't restrict the maximum that their members can earn (how would they retain members if they did?) - they just want to ensure that their members all have livable wages.

      It is also worth pointing out that countries who are doing better economically than the US (their numbers growing every day) tend to actually have higher rates of union membership than we do. For example, Canadian union membership is around 30% nationally, as opposed to around 12% in the US. But yet their dollar is worth more than ours, and their life expectancy exceeds ours. Oh, and their educational system is often more highly regarded than ours.

      So you are free to hate the unions if you wish, but please, check your facts before you blame the world on them.
      • How is raising the floor for entry not price fixing? If there were 100 teachers willing to work for 40,000, 50 willing to work for 30,000, and 10 willing to work for 20,000, why should we not be allowed to hire those bottom 10 at the rate they are worth? Many teachers leave the practice because wages are low, but that's their choice. If there were no teachers available at 20,000, don't you think schools would hire the ones that are available at a higher rate? All jobs in all walks of life get paid exactly a

        • If there were 100 teachers willing to work for 40,000, 50 willing to work for 30,000, and 10 willing to work for 20,000, why should we not be allowed to hire those bottom 10 at the rate they are worth?

          Thats really two not the same question - what a teacher is willing to work for, vs. what they are worth. And I'd like to start by asking who would really want their kids taught by someone willing to teach for only 20k? Shouldn't the wage for a full-time job be at least high enough to discourage the employee (the teacher in this case) from needing to seek out a second job to pay their cost of living? If you only pay a teacher $20k in a city where cost of living is $35, they'll have to make the other $

        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          by Lehk228 (705449)
          price is still decided by the market, the employees vote on the employers proposal and decide to accept the offer if is is sufficient. the purpose of unions is to balance out the fact that the employer ALWAYS wins a war of attrition. the plant can shut down or run at reduced capacity with scabs and still make money, since the employees who are missing aren't getting paid. the employees OTOH don't have their bills go down since they aren't working, it's also much easier to select a temporary replacement e

        • No, it's about seeing that all of its members get an unfair shake

          Please elaborate on this. I'd like to know how you feel the unions see that their members get an unfair shake.

          However, when labor suppliers (unions) are able to collude on wages and labor demanders (employers) are not, that creates a situation that disproportionately favors the suppliers, artificially driving up costs (wages).

          Thats an interesting viewpoint, but I disagree with your description of the situation. Indeed, there are few examples remaining outside of education where the people looking for labor are obligated to work with the unions. And even in that example, I've seen districts that hire substitutes from outside the unions, sometimes to longer than usual time frames.

          Furthermore, your statemen

  • ...being a starving writer wasn't bad enough?

    • But without the canned laughter, how would you know where to laugh? They might actually have to make things funny.

    • Does this mean that we're going to get "Reality Gaming"?
      Actually, Reality TV is produced on the cheap with little (if any) writers. In fact, if the strike carries on, when the backlog of prime time episodes runs out sometime in January, expect to see a large number of reality shows hitting network TV for this very reason.

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