WTO Awards Caribbean Country Right to Ignore US Copyright 460
The WTO's recent ruling on Antigua's complaint against the US over the banning of online gambling resulted in a payment to the island nation much less than they asked for. It appears, though, that this payment was just part of the WTO's compensation package for Antigua/Barbuda. Via Kotaku, the Hollywood Reporter notes that the Caribbean country can now freely ignore US copyright laws - legally. This dispensation is apparently limited to some $21 million a year. "The WTO often takes decisions awarding trade compensation in cases where one nation's policies are found to break its rules. But this is only the second time the compensation lets one country violate intellectual property laws. In this case, Antigua will -- in theory -- be allowed to distribute copies of American DVDs, CDs and games and software with impunity. 'That has only been done once before and is, I believe, a very potent weapon,' Antigua's lawyer Mark Mendel said. 'I hope that the United States government will now see the wisdom in reaching some accommodation with Antigua over this dispute.'"
yea,, (Score:4, Insightful)
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Pfft... 21 Million? (Score:5, Funny)
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Or one Justin Timberlake MP3 according to the RIAA
Re:Pfft... 21 Million? (Score:4, Funny)
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Re:Pfft... 21 Million? (Score:4, Insightful)
I think this will go the way of the wind with trade sanctions and embargoes before it is over. I think we could also expect their Internet connections and communications lines to be hit with a torpedo of some sorts.
But that wouldn't matter anyways, WIPO and the WTO are separate organizations and constructs. Under WIPO treaties, other countries would be banned/prohibited from accepting the pirated property. Well, that is if they want to trade with other countries that expect WIPO agreements to be held up. It may well be that this ruling is only applicable to residents of Antigua. They can steal the Copyrighted material only to sell it to their residents.
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Government INACTION leads to loss of IP (or copyright if you prefer).
Government ACTION is required for them to deprive you of real property.
Huge difference. People who "lose" IP only had it in the first place because the government gave it to them.
But that's all sort of philosophical. The US gave up some rights whe
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Under this administration, The WTO and Antiguan people are now terrorists. Prepare for us to spend 1 billion dollars a day in taxpayer funds to attack you now.
--
Enjoy Freedom? - Register as Republican
Methinks ye needs a new sig. Avast! Shiver me timbers! Ye be walkin' the plankk thar, matey!
Re:yea,, December 27th, a day which will go DOWN (Score:5, Funny)
ANTIGUITY
Re:yea,, (Score:4, Insightful)
Mod me flamebait without understanding the post if you want, but what I've said is factually true (although fantastically worded). I spun it so to make the spin obvious.
No, I don't think those organizations I named qualify as terrorists. I do think spin is a funny thing to those who understand it and dangerous to those who do not.
Spin is what the people in charge of "leaked" tidbits of information want to use to keep people in control. Don't be sheep, people. Search for factual information and make your own decisions. If you're not getting factual information, then your government and press don't really believe in a free, participatory society. You need true facts to participate properly in your government.
It is interesting, though, that commercial goals are not mentioned in that definition. I guess someone somewhere prefers old-fashioned crime family style organized crime for profit be kept as a separate matter.
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Don't be sheep, people. Search for factual information and make your own decisions. If you're not getting factual information, then your government and press don't really believe in a free, participatory society. You need true facts to participate properly in your government.
In other words: Be sheep but for whack-job web sites/newspapers/magazines that claim to harbor the truth, but in fact are just aping the political and social agendas of a different (but just as biased) collective ideal. Show me where it is that you get your so-called "factual" information from, and I'm sure I can cut it to ribbons with the same cynical aplomb that those organs use to "discredit" Fox News, NY Times, and others of that ilk. My diatribe will have just as little factual basis as the criticisms
A whole new market (Score:4, Insightful)
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Also, if a site is hosted in Antigua and offers "free downloads" would they have to have a click through agreement where the users checks a box next to a "I promise I'm really in Antigua" statement?
OH! How far out would be to imagine U.S. isp's trying to block access to *.ag?
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Kind of fitting, isn't it? A pirate ship going to the Caribbean...
I, for one, will be happy to donate $$ to help ship servers and personnel from Sweden to Antigua (as long as it can't be traced. Now it's a multinational effort with Swiss bank accounts!
Pirates of the Caribbean (Score:2)
A victory for internet users worldwide (Score:3, Insightful)
Not Really ... read carefully. (Score:4, Interesting)
So they get to "violate" $21M USD worth of IP, then they are infringing. So 21 million MP3's (if iTunes is considered fair market value). Apple claims 2.5 million downloads per week, so presuming everyone from iTunes now downloaded from Antigua at the same rate, they'd be done in 8.4 weeks. Anything past that would be punishable IP infringement.
But again, those numbers are all suspect, what is the real dollar amount of IP? The point being, though, this isn't a free flowing well, it is finite and capped each year. So enjoy it for a few weeks, Antigua. Christmas in January.
Re:A victory for internet users worldwide (Score:5, Insightful)
Still this strikes me as an odd penalty. If I go and rob a bank, do you put my children in jail? Yes, I would be upset at that, and it would be a deterrent for me, but at the same time, the children did nothing wrong - you should be jailing me.
They are punishing the US by allowing people to take the works of it's authors, actors, software developers, etc. without compensating them. Yes it punishes the government, but it punishes people completely unrelated to the action even further.
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Re:A victory for internet users worldwide (Score:5, Insightful)
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Only if you are the house. Otherwise you will loose eventually.
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Why Music? (Score:3, Interesting)
Microsoft? Apple? Diebold? Cisco? Oracle?
A single person with access to code and a $21 million a year grudge to burn might already be shopping for a 1-way ticket
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Honestly, I've been waiting for years for them to do that over certain torrents I've downloaded from hosts around the world using a tracker in Sweden. Copyright is unenforced and unenforceable. All that's going on here is, we can host the servers in Antigua and no one can shut them down.
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Hah. (Score:5, Insightful)
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Attacking recognition of US copyright and patent monopolies is a good way to rein in the USA on an international level
Yes, because of all the things that my country does wrong in the World, banning online gambling ranks at the top of the list of the things we should be "reined in" on.
To really tank the US economy (only a good thing for the rest of us
Yes, because when the US economy "tanks" it's a completely isolated event and has no impact on the rest of the World whatsoever. That's why Europe escaped the Great Depression. Oh wait....
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What the US should be "reined in" on, is to respect the treaties signed, or start loosing the privileges you got from them, and respect the resolutions, even if they are not favourable to them, when they use the resolutions of the same organizations to force others countries to act.
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Really? Which ones?
Says who?
I'm sorry, WWIII started when, exactly?
WWIII == Cold War; WWIV == War on Terror (Score:3, Interesting)
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A large chunk of the US economy is now "intangibles", basically fairy dust...complete lack of recognition of US copyrights and patents would go a long way
I know if it feels good to shoot from the hip but next time you should check your facts. Take a look at the Fortune 500 list of companies. Very few, if any, of the companies in the first 100 would be hurt if any kind of large "IP doesn't apply" judgement were to be handed down. Oil, cars, financial services, insurance and construction make up the top 20 and last time I checked we still can't download gas for our cars or even the car in which to put the gas. Not a single predominantly software or entert
Internal or export? (Score:4, Interesting)
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Time for allofmp3.com.ag (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Time for allofmp3.com.ag (Score:5, Funny)
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Holy Fucking Dupe, Batman! (Score:2)
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differs from status quo how? (Score:2, Insightful)
abandonment of sovereignty? (Score:3, Interesting)
Since when did "free trade" translate into an abandonment of sovereignty in favor of having an unelected global organization dictate national policy? If the people of the United States (or any country) want to ban online gambling then what business of the WTO is it? At least when the WTO steps in over protective tariffs that makes SOME sense. If a product is completely outlawed though, how the hell is a free trade issue?
Can the Netherlands file a WTO complaint because some of their products (cannabis coffee shops) illegal in the United States? Can the United States file a complaint because some of our exports (pornography) are illegal in Saudi Arabia? Where the hell does it end?
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Re:abandonment of sovereignty? (Score:5, Informative)
You haven't been following this issue. Countries can prohibit trade on moral ground under the WTO. They just can't treat the domestic businesses differently than the foreign ones, which the US does explicitly.
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Yeah we do that all the time. But on this one specific issue I fail to see the problem -- is there something that treats American horse-racing betting sites different then ones from overseas?
Re:abandonment of sovereignty? (Score:5, Informative)
Yes, if you use less specific terms. Change "horse-racing betting" to "gambling" and re-ask the question.
Apparently, WTO sees the US government's uber-specific microlegislation, where it permits some kinds of gambling and not others, as an absurd joke that is obviously derived from special interests (i.e. private industry's desire to use government power to put money into their own pockets) rather than any sort of principles. In other words, they saw it the same way that we, the citizens of US, do.
Re:abandonment of sovereignty? (Score:4, Informative)
So where's the difference between domestic and foreign?
Re:abandonment of sovereignty? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:abandonment of sovereignty? (Score:5, Insightful)
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That is the problem, that States did not Ban Online Gambling Completely. The Problems is the US Allowed online Gambling on horse races, The Majority of sites most likely in the states.. Since the states does allow one form of online Gambling, banning other forms is seen as a protective tarriff.
Cry me a fucking river. So because the "majority" of horse racing gambling is in the states that makes it a protective tariff to outlaw ALL forms of online poker (to pull a random example out of my ass)?
Re:abandonment of sovereignty? (Score:4, Insightful)
So because the "majority" of horse racing gambling is in the states that makes it a protective tariff to outlaw ALL forms of online poker
YepRe:abandonment of sovereignty? (Score:5, Insightful)
Nobody made you join the WTO either. Nobody made you agree to the definition of categories of industry. If you'd had the foresight to separate horse racing from online gambling as separate categories this would not be a problem. But these are the rules you agreed to and know you have to play by them if you want to keep playing.
And you DO want to keep playing because the WTO is the force that's preventing Canada from creating a nationalized daycare system. (would prevent american companies from competing in the daycare industry), is forcing Canada to sync copyprotection laws for America's RIAA/Hollywood interests, is preventing Canada from selling subsidized electricity to its own residents because FreeTrade/WTO rules force us to export electricy at the same rates we use it internally, despite that a lot of the energy infrastructure was built by the taxpayer.
And that's just Canada... the US is wielding the WTA/FreeTrade agreements around the globe for its benefit. It benefits far more from them than it loses. For every Antigua there are 30 Canada's. Antigua is just interesting because they've scored a symbolic blow to the US, and in a very public high profile way.
Re:abandonment of sovereignty? (Score:5, Insightful)
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This is more like saying "smoking X is alright in the US. smoking X is alright in the Netherlands. Smoking X you bought online from the netherlands is illegal."
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In the overall picture of this particular issue, I suspect the ban was based on money, the inability of the US gov to tax it when it takes place outside the borders, as gambling within the US is heavily taxed.
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Re:abandonment of sovereignty? (Score:5, Informative)
The ruling was that
your wheat which you are going to use privately on your own farm impacts the state market.
your state trades wheat with other states.
So your all your private wheat are belong to us.
Once that was ruled, if they could argue something would have even a secondary affect on interstate commerce, they could regulate it.
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That's about 15,000 pounds of extra wheat. Even at today's prices ("prices soar to $10 per bushel"... , that's about $150,000 dollars worth of extra wheat today so assume similar purchasing power back then.
No, at today's prices of $10/bu, 239 bushels equal $2390. Today's prices aren't what existed then, anyways, so $10 is way off. Right now, wheat is priced like nothing I can recall growing up. Depending on grade, protein, year etc, $1.75 - $4.50 is generally what I recall. I'm pretty sure I saw it as high as $7 at a couple of points before I left home. The point is, $10 is a current aberration in the history of the market (if you had sold it last spring, instead of this fall, I think it was $6-somethin
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Re:abandonment of sovereignty? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:abandonment of sovereignty? (Score:5, Insightful)
Okay, it's like this. The only way you get to ban gambling is if you believe that gambling is morally a bad thing, or if you believe that gambling could damage public order. By allowing some types of gambling, you agree that gambling is not morally a bad thing, and that it is not a danger to order either. Hence, you can't ban gambling, in any form.
Unless, of course, you'd like to argue that betting on horse races is moral while gambling in general is immoral, or that the latter would somehow cause order to break down. However, I don't think any sane person would accept that. I wouldn't.
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The U.S.A. agreed to abide by the rules and has called for sanctions on other countries based on the rules. The fact that the U.S.A. a HUGE proponent of WTO has chosen to ignore a treaty
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I thought of online gambling as just flat out illegal in some areas.
So why can't a cannibis shop sell mail order through the internet to the US and make the same complaint.
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It became the WTO's business when we signed a treaty [wikipedia.org] making it thier business.
wow (Score:2)
Catch you later... (Score:5, Funny)
As I sit looking out my window across a lovely but frigid blanket of white to the filthy, freezing slush on the street and notice a pedestrian being blown off the sidewalk by an icy, knife-edged wind, I think of setting up a nice little pirate factory to legally crank out stuff that will drive the RIAA to frothing, incoherent rage on one of the nicer Caribbean islands.
And a drink. A drink with an umbrella in it. Could life be better?
So how does this work? (Score:2)
A contrived example, but you get the point (I hope). How can a court even allow something like this?
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Quick! (Score:2)
Time to use those airmiles (Score:3, Funny)
Hypothetical Question (Score:2)
So, using Antigua, have they found the hole in the GPL they have been looking for?
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Could a company in Antigua take GPL software, strip out the copyrights and then "sell" that newly licensed code to Microsoft?
Well, for one thing, I would guess that the majority of moderate-to-large-size GPLed projects have one or more notable contributions (and hence copyright) from non-Americans, so that's a spanner in the works for a start.
And ignoring that issue, I'm guessing that it would still be illegal for Microsoft to copy that stuff, it just wouldn't be illegal for the Antiguans to sell it to them.
This has been in the works for some time. (Score:5, Interesting)
Before Bush came into office the US had never lost a single case at the WTO. Now he has lost at least two. The last one I remember was against Europe with regard to an import tax on steel. Here is a link or two:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3291537.stm [bbc.co.uk]
http://themanufacturer.com/us/detail.html?contents_id=1726 [themanufacturer.com]
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/politics/article77803.ece [independent.co.uk]
In that case the US backed down fairly quickly as the tariffs Europe was going to impose were all designed to damage the economy in places Bush needed to get re-elected. One example given was taxing Florida oranges heavily and making them far more expensive than those from elsewhere. This is what every last tariff was designed to do. The European Union chose products where the same item could be obtained elsewhere for a competitive price (but not after a 30% tax hike was imposed on the US produce).
In this case turning Antigua into a file sharing haven will be an annoyance, but probably not as dire as what Europe was aiming for. This is especially true when you look at the amounts involved. In this case 21 million dollars per year is fairly small compared to the 2.2 billion that the last dispute could have cost had the US not backed down.
Re:This has been in the works for some time. (Score:5, Informative)
Here is some more information on this http://benmuse.typepad.com/ben_muse/2007/09/how-is-the-us-d.html [typepad.com]
or the source (warning PDF) from the US gov't rather then a random blog:
http://www.ustr.gov/assets/Trade_Agreements/Monitoring_Enforcement/Dispute_Settlement/WTO/asset_upload_file811_5696.pdf [ustr.gov].
I didn't realize that number was so high, but as a Canadian I could think of a couple of cases that didn't go so well for you guys (not that you haven't taken it to us as well).
Ignore the GPL too? (Score:5, Insightful)
Not that I'm trying to be a Troll, just a random thought that crossed my mind as interesting.
How is $12million calculated ? (Score:2)
- The retail cost; top dollar or discount store
- Wholesale (bulk)
- Cost to manufacture
- Price that Antigua chooses to sell it at
If the last: then if they find the most expensive copyrighted items and sell copies at 1 penny each, it could cause a lot of damage. It will cause even more damage if all the sales are products of one company - could make it go bust.Real Value (Score:2)
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"Now - $21 million may seem like a considerable award. However, according the the RIAA's calculations, this only covers the single "Just a Lil Bit" by artist 50 Cent."
Since the award is to Antigua, and the profits of the award are to compensate Antigua, its the value in/to Antigua that counts. What the **AA thinks something is worth elsewhere is irrelevant.
Don't forget - this is as compensation to Antigua - its the revenue that is generated in or for Antigua that counts, not the "damage" elsewhere. The
Cheap DVD-s (Score:2)
Will work soon.
Pirates of the Caribbean (Score:4, Funny)
right in time (Score:2, Funny)
i think antigua should give that sucker away for free
simply because, a caribbean nation pirating a movie called pirates of the caribbean is just too f***ing funny
$21 Million (Score:2)
In other news (Score:3, Funny)
Re:I bet the Mafiaa Won't Like That (Score:5, Insightful)
What this really represents is a message to the US: the WTO is not afraid to use IP laws to penalize us if we try and bully other countries. The member states of the WTO are not happy that the US can basically run free, so they just wanted to remind us that there is a system in place that can overrule America's policies. I personally view that as a good thing, since the US keeps using its position as the single most powerful nation in the world to push various agendas on other nations.
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Re:I bet the Mafiaa Won't Like That (Score:4, Insightful)
Uh, no.
Dear Servicemember:
We realize that you were due to retire in 2008. However, as we're now fighting EVERYONE, your enlistment has been extended...
...to 2108. Thanks for serving, and have a friendly-fire-free day!
Love, Uncle Sam
Seriously, folks... While I'm as proud as any military brat concerning the amount of rear the US armed forces has the capability to kick, we are NOT at the point where we can take on the world.
Rephrased: How many 12-year-olds could you take on? [mcsweeneys.net]
Re:wha?! (Score:5, Funny)
Also, "holy shit" is redundant because right now in every office in Hollywood, overpaid cocaine soaked executives are making that very same exclamation.
Well, not all of them will be saying "holy shit." Some will simply be saying "shit", referring to what they just did in their pants.
-mcgrew
PS- everyone should now go out and sell all their Sony stock. Not because this will make the price of Sony stock drop, just because Sony is evil and this is as good an excuse as any.
Re:wha?! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:wha?! (Score:5, Funny)