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What's the Best Game Console of All Time?
Posted by
Zonk
on Tue Jan 29, 2008 01:22 PM
from the duh-obviously-the-fairchild dept.
from the duh-obviously-the-fairchild dept.
The C|Net Crave blog has up an article exploring the history of console gaming, and wonders aloud about the pecking order of the various systems. "Gaming is so subjective that there is no single "greatest" system ever. It might sound like a cop-out, but it really depends on what standards you're using and what generation you grew up in. I loved the SNES, and would personally call it the greatest system of all time. However, the NES and PlayStation could both easily be called the best, based on the standards they set and the advances they presented to gaming." The Guardian follows up this piece, noting that the article's rose-colored recollections of the SNES days may not be entirely accurate. Subjective or not, it's a good question: which consoles have a valid place in history and which ones should be forgotten?
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Hmmmmm (Score:5, Interesting)
I grew up with the NES. My parents refused to buy me a SNES when they came out, but I'm not at all bitter (bastards! *cries*). Aside from playing SNES games at friend's houses, I lost interest fairly quickly. I'd occasionally play a brief game at a friend's house on their playstation and i don't think I ever even touched a PS2 beyond using it to play DVDs back when it was the cheapest DVD player on the market. So I basically skipped the past two console generations alltogether.
The NES was the "greatest" system for me, simply because that was the one I interacted with the most, however I can definitely agree with this guy's argument that Sony's embrace of third party developers with the PlayStations made the game industry what it is today.
One minor nitpick, from the article:
I've always heard that was his inspiration for Zelda, not Mario.
Re:Hmmmmm (Score:5, Interesting)
I do have to say that my old SNES got the most playtime out of a single game for me. I think i've played S.Metroid 6 or 7 times through? Same with Link to the Past. It seemed to be the perfect form for 2d sidescrollers and the kind of games that Nintendo Made. Enough power to allow for Saves and bigger environments, and gameplay that matched; difficult, but not frustrating (the majority of NES games were hard because of controls, not because the games were designed that way, i'm looking at you TMNT). I'll never be able to play the 64 because I couldn't afford one at the time and going back to play it now is almost impossible because the 3d geometry is analogous to the NES:SNES upgrade. However, (this might just be the old man in me) I have no problem going back and playing any SNES game that I missed. I feel the same will hold true for the 360 and ps3, and even the xbox and ps2 (later gen games). The graphics are not intrusive into the enjoyment of the game, even if graphics do get better.
Parent
Re:Hmmmmm (Score:5, Informative)
Actually, both are correct. Various aspects of Super Mario came from his trips into the woods (e.g. Miyamoto would daydream about climbing a tree high enough to get above the clouds, finding a magical castle, etc.), while the game of Zelda was more of a direct translation of his exploration of the woods and caves around his home. To tie it all together, Miyamoto basically had a very active imagination that he was able to translate into the games he designed. The latter part is a rare gift that is what made him so successful.
Parent
Re:Hmmmmm (Score:4, Interesting)
Goldeneye, Mario Tennis, Smash Brothers, Mario Party 1-3 and Mario Kart...we didn't need anything else.
Parent
Right manufacturer, wrong time. (Score:5, Interesting)
The only difference between all the other game systems is graphics and buttons. Difference between an Atari 2600 and NES/Genesis? More graphics and buttons. NES and SNES/Dreamcast/Playstation? Graphics and buttons. SNES/Playstation/Dreamcast and N64/PS2/XBox? Graphics and buttons. N64/PS2/XBox and PS3/XBox360? Graphics and buttons.
But the Wii is fundamentally different. It's the realization of what the power glove was meant to be. There hasn't been that kind of revolution in gaming since Pong. Maybe the advent of games where you could save your game (with code or battery) from one session to the next. But other than that, it's all graphics and buttons.
Parent
Re:Right manufacturer, wrong time. (Score:4, Interesting)
The Wii without a doubt is the progenitor to what is to come, the Xbox 720 and the PS4 and the successor to the Wii (which will beat both of the aforementioned future consoles to market) will all take the successes of the Wii and add to it and improve upon it.
Without a doubt it's a pathfinder for the future but it is in much the same way that the original Xbox with a built in HDD and Ethernet paved the way for Xbox Live and eventually the explosive growth of online gaming.
Parent
Re:Right manufacturer, wrong time. (Score:5, Insightful)
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Utter disbelief (Score:5, Informative)
For the greatest console of all time, I have two words:
GAME BOY.
Every other console has had credible rivals that did much the same thing. The NES competed with home computers, early on with Spectrums and C64s and later with Acorns and Amigas. SNES faced the Mega Drive. And so on, and so on. Often there's been a clear leader, but there's never been anything else remotely like the Game Boy's dominance. And as pack-in games go, Tetris was an absolute killer.
The Game Boy lasted a decade and saw off every rival that ever dared try it on. Sega had a good go, they had a colour screen and everything, but the Game Gear sank while Nintendo marched on, and on, and on... I thought it was finally dying off, then Pokemon happened - and suddenly every one of the countless millions of old Game Boys came out of the attic and lit up again, played with by the original owners' younger brothers! And hence a miniaturised Gameboy Pocket made with modern technology, and then colour...
Its contemporary successor is nearly as crazy. Everyone thought the DS was a stopgap. A cheap gimmick produced to slow down the PSP while Nintendo worked on the real next-gen Game Boy. How very, very wrong we were.
Parent
Re:Right manufacturer, wrong time. (Score:4, Insightful)
That's it. Virtual Console's been done, everything else has been done.
I like the Wii, but it only really counts if it continues to be a success (which it probably will).
Like, the Eye Toy might have been a revolution in the same way, or Dance Mats. Or like you say, the Power Glove, if it had worked. Or the Amiga Joyboard. (heh, isn't that what Wii Fit uses?)
I do think the move into 3D, and immersive environments with decent physics, is ultimately a bigger deal, but that was a gradual evolution, and if anything was brought about by 2 systems nearly at once.
Parent
Re:Hmmmmm (Score:5, Interesting)
I would vote for the dreamcast. I never owned one, but it was a hell of a system. If I'm not mistaken it was the first with internet access. Also it had the controllers that would allow these little devices to be added to them that served several functions. One function allowed sports games to show different plays without showing your pick on the TV, others allowed the user to detach it and play it as a mini game.
Parent
Re:Hmmmmm (Score:5, Insightful)
* It should have a reasonable percentage of games that would make it onto any "100 all time best game list". Like I mentioned, games are the reason we buy the hardware.
* It should be reasonably popular (although not necessarily the most). Why? In order to significantly impact the video gaming world, the console should have been enjoyed by a reasonably number of gamers.
* It should have definable qualities which distinguish it from other consoles. As much as I like my 360, it's really not innovative in any way - more of a refinement of existing trends and technologies. Likewise, the PS3 is mostly about bigger and better hardware.
* It should have a cultural impact beyond the gaming world.
If I had to vote now, I think I'd cast my ballot for the NES. It re-invigorated a stagnate market. It launched (or re-ignited) a number of gaming properties that are still going strong to this day. And, the Nintendo became synonymous with home video gaming.
The Dreamcast was an awesome system, but I just don't think it had enough of an impact on the market in general to be considered the best console ever.
Parent
Lose the Nostalgia, Do a Trade Study (Score:5, Insightful)
What disappoints me massively here is that there is no establishment of values. Have you ever done a trade study? Why weren't the performance parameters isolated and discussed between consoles? Instead, all I saw was opinionated statements often tied to nostalgia with little or no scientific basis.
It's not even discussed about what the delivery method is (cartridge or disc) or even whether doing something well in 8-bit is more desired than something bad in 32-bit. Hardware maintenance, sound capabilities, exclusive franchise titles, I could probably come up with 10 or so factors in deciding how to rank my consoles. Then I would define the scales and think of a novel way to weight them (probably by year and technological limitations).
Last but not least, I would need someone with enough time to play through all of them. Most importantly, this subject(s) would need to be non-interested meaning they have no previous gaming experience. And yet, I don't even see an attempt for this article to do the above while trying to forget that Donky Kong Country entertained them for months in their past.
Why will pong always be better than NES Contra for my dad? Because it was his generation's game. Why is NES Contra always better for me than Souped Up Console Gears of War? Because that was my generation's game. Why will Gears of War always beat Super Lucid Brain Implants Choco Serial Murder Hospital Mystery for my
If you want me to be impressed with a comprehensive study, I expect a cold hard naive matrix and not some subjective highly tailored prose laden essay written by an avid gamer.
Re:Lose the Nostalgia, Do a Trade Study (Score:5, Funny)
Hell, look at the 'icon' for this article...and see which console controller they picked!!
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
based on this from the summary:
"However, the NES and PlayStation could both easily be called the best, based on the standards they set and the advances they presented to gaming."
I would say that argument could be reasonably made within the context of advancing gaming. Obviously NES and Playstation were more advanced in and of themselves, but did they really advance console gaming as much as the 2600 did in its day by comparison? NES maybe, but definetl
Re:Lose the Nostalgia, Do a Trade Study (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:Lose the Nostalgia, Do a Trade Study (Score:5, Funny)
Party Goer: Oh yes! Do you like them?
eldavojohn: Actually, I was wondering if you wanted to take a look at this matrix of quality I recently had an independent group do.
*pulls out a sheet of paper*
eldavojohn: You see, while you have some strange perception of them being 'cute' & 'fashionable' my data indicates that they received a 1/10 in both odor and appearance. Which puts them just below wooden clogs.
*the woman writes 0% on the paper*
eldavojohn: What's that?
Party Goer: The odds that I'll sleep with you tonight.
eldavojohn: Well, that's ok because after further research among my colleagues I've discovered it's also the probability you're STD free.
Parent
The Phantom, hands down (Score:5, Funny)
Huh? (Score:5, Informative)
What exactly is Super Mario Brothers the first of? It's not the first Mario game. In fact, it's a direct sequel to Mario Brothers and arguably it's the 5th Donkey Kong game. It's not even the first 2D platformer as Pac-Land has that locked up. Super Mario Brothers was a great game but it's not the first anything.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
It's the first of the "Super" Mario franchise--it's the first game featuring Mario where he could go from regular Mario to Super Mario. This is something that never occurred in any of the Mario games before that, but that occurs in just about every Mario game after that.
Re:Huh? (Score:4, Insightful)
The first in the "Super" Mario Brothers franchise? Others before were not "Super", or were "Donkey Kong something", no?
Parent
As much as I like Nintendo and dislike Sony... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:As much as I like Nintendo and dislike Sony... (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:As much as I like Nintendo and dislike Sony... (Score:4, Interesting)
Sony shit a brick when they found out about the N64 controller design, and they had to respond with something ASAP. After they saw how well it was integrated with the N64, they feared the lack of analog would hobble the PS. They rushed out the dual-shock in very little time, it was on the shelves around a year after the 64 was released. By the design, you can infer that they were still not fully committed to analog, since the analog sticks are literally tacked on to the bottom
If you still don't want to see the light, just look at how every other console manufacturer has done it. Sega Saturn & Dreamcast, Gamecube, Xbox & 360. Everyone else swapped the D-pad and left analog BECAUSE IT WORKS BETTER!
Parent
Nintendo Wii (Score:4, Interesting)
The Wiimote is also the only *fun* controller that I've run across in years. Actually changes the gameplay significantly. Some people hate it, some people love it. I love it.
So that'd be my vote. *shrugs*
Playstation Not It (Score:5, Insightful)
The NES drug the console market out of a complete collapse into a thriving and expansive market. The quality was kept reasonably high through careful controls on the number of games that could be produced by each licensee. (To prevent the "game dumping" problem that occurred in the Atari generation.) It set the stage for the modern video game market, brought the arcade home in ways that even the Colecovision couldn't, introduced the idea of story-driven action games rather than arcade console games, reorganized the market around a control scheme that lives on even today (i.e. the venerable gamepad), and is fondly remembered by nearly every generation of gamer.
There simply has never been a console that has had the impact on the market that the original NES had. In its time it was without equal. I love the SNES as well, but the title for the "greatest" always has been and always will be on the NES.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
If I had points, I'd mod you up for this nod to the Colecovision. Definitely the best home conversions of arcade games available until the NES came along.
~Philly
Re:Playstation Not It (Score:5, Insightful)
From a market perspective, it built heavily on the market that Nintendo and Sega had already built. Had the Playstation been introduced in the wake of the market crash it would have never succeeded. Instead, the market was already excited about the possibility of a multimedia console that catered to all ages. The Playstation was the first to deliver the right mixture of technology to meet demand, ergo it won by default.
* A multimedia computer platform at the time was considered a computer with a sound card, high resolution graphics, mpeg decoding, and a CD-ROM drive. Bit of a misnomer in modern terms, but it was high-tech stuff back then.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Coolest (Score:5, Interesting)
All platforms had good and bad games, it's useless to compare them. BUT -- in terms of technical coolness and uniqueness, I have to give it to my good ol' Vectrex [wikipedia.org]. Clearly vector graphics don't work for every type of game, but for the games it did work with, it was awesome.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I was going to say NES is the best console of all time. Mainly because I remember the dry period of console gaming that occurred between the Atari 2600 and NES.
Then you mentioned Vectrex! Vectrex was awesome for its time.
Nintendo DS (Score:5, Interesting)
I was originally going to say it would be the GameBoy Advance SP, but then I remembered that the DS can play GameBoy Advance games too.
It's a nicely-sized portable, which I've found means that I can actually play the game instead of requiring a TV. Many of the great SNES games were re-released for the GBA (like The Legend of Zelda: Link to the Past, basically all the Final Fantasy games before VII, Super Mario Bros. 3, and Donkey Kong Country 2).
Unfortunately Nintendo took the time to screw with some of them (Link shouldn't be yelling "Ha!" all the time in Link to the Past!), and not all of them translated quite as well as I might like (the music in Final Fantasy VI Advance was screwed up in some places, but on the plus side the bugs were fixed).
Add in original DS games and other original GBA games, and you've got a very nice portable handheld console, which in my mind at least makes it the Best Game Console of All Time, So Far.
Of course, that's probably because I'm getting older and have less free time to play games. It's easier to sneak some game time when you can just drop the console in your pocket or man-purs-- I mean, laptop bag. It's a laptop bag.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Playstation? Bah (Score:5, Insightful)
Sega Master System (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Sega Master System (Score:4, Interesting)
Sega has for me alwasy been a company that had some really great ideas but either bad luck or bad management. The Genesis was pretty popular, but beyond that they've really been a bit player for most of their existence, except in the arcades.
Parent
Truly the best system (Score:4, Interesting)
Even though it isn't really covered in the article, I'd have to pick the original Xbox as the greatest system. Wait! Before you mod me into oblivion let me explain: I claim that a lot of interest in a particular console seems to be how well you can modify it for other purposes. In other words, versatility can be of great importance.
Xbox (original): Once you easily softmod the machine, and possible install a larger internal hardrive, the Xbox is a self-sufficient machine with excellent graphics capabilities and emulation ability. Even by today's console standards, on any 'regular' standard-definition TV, the Xbox games are surprising good looking and perform well. Yeah, a lot of Xbox titles are cross-platform. But even so, usually the Xbox edition of any title was as good or superior to the others. Plus, with UnleashX or other dashboard replacement, you have customizable menus from which to launch programs or games stored on the hard drive. It's also reliable as hell, almost impossible to kill.
Emulation. The Xbox can run those precious SNES games listed in the article. It can also run NES, Genesis, Atari, and even some PSone games. There's even a working Daphne emulator for those old laserdisc titles such as Space Ace and Dragon's Lair. You can also run a number of select N64 titles, although not a complete list.
Multi-Media. Xbox has the famous XBMC, XBoxMediaCenter from which you can play movies, music, photos and the like from local or network storage. XBMC can also be used as a game launcher instead of other dashboards if you prefer. The only caveat is that newer H264 and other Hi-Def high-bandwidth material is a bit too much for the 700MHx intel CPU on the aging beast.
Computing. That's right, the Xbox is a 700MHz intel PC in a console case. You can use it to run Linux as a basic computing platform if you like. This is Slashdot, is it not? Nothing can be taken seriously here until it runs linux. :)
Don't get me wrong... I loved the SNES as well in its day. You could even use pliers to break away the little plastic tabs in the cartridge slot to play those Ranma 1/2 import games. But any other utility was pretty much non-existant. Ans let's face it, there were a ton of crappy platformer clones (maybe not as many as the infamous NES).
P.S.What I find most amusing is how much I *hated* the big and heavy XBox when it first came out, and conversely how much I love it today.
Nintendo 64 (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Nintendo 64 (Score:5, Interesting)
IMO the two *best-made games ever* are Ocarina and SM64. They're the games that I judge all others against in all sorts of respects.
The N64 was to me the silver age of gaming. You had the best Zelda/Mario games ever, IMO the best Mario Kart, a revolution in console FPS games with Goldeneye, the first Smash Bros, etc. 3D gaming at its most memorable and finest. Many games on the N64 are yet to be outdone in their respective genres.
The SNES was the golden age. Link to the Past, Super Mario World, DKC and DKC2 setting new standards in side-scrolling platformers, Killer Instinct revolutionizing fighting games, Super Mario Kart popularizing a new genre, Final Fantasy III (VI in Japan), Super Metroid, the Super Star Wars games, the list goes on and on. The SNES had so many good games to play every year it's scary.
NES did so much for console gaming it's hard to put it in scope. With Super Mario Bros. it took things to a whole new level right away. Add the Zelda games, Gradius shootemups, co-op Ninja Turtles games, Metroid, the Castlevanias, the Ninja Gaidens, and you are talking about a system with the predecessors to the majority of franchises anyone cares about.
Parent
My best console wasn't a console (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, yes, I know. It's not a dedicated gaming system like a true "console" is, but you will be hard-pressed to find people who used it for more than a gaming system. Even when the NES came out, the C64 was the king of the gaming machines with a ton of top-notch games out for it. When C64 users got together, very few cared about GEOS or MultiCALC. It was all about the games, from Mail Order Monsters to Space Taxi to the original Castle Wolfenstein to the Ultima series to The Last Ninja. Gaming was what made the C64 as popular as it was.
So, you can debate about the best "console" of all time, but as far as I'm concerned the best gaming platform was the C64.
I'll answer for all of you (Score:5, Funny)
PLATO (Score:4, Informative)
In 1978.
Coleco, TurboGrafx , Sega Master System, Pong TV (Score:3, Insightful)
I had a TV with a pong-like game built into it in the 70's. Then a 2600. Odyssey. Intellivison. Coleco (really an Adam). Sega Master System. TurboGrafx 16. SNES. PS. N64. PS2. Xbox. Gamecube. 360. Wii.
I bet that's more hands on then most people who comment on such things. But even still it's worthless to me. The 2600 came when I was so young that I just longed to do things grown ups could. It was the first to make major headway into homes. The SMS was those 7th-8th grade type years. The SMS probably wins in signal to noise. Alex Kidd, Phantasy Star, Miracle Warriors, Zillion, Shinobi, After Burner, Califnornia games, MK, Ninja Gaiden, Space Harrier. And I'm sure I'm missing a bunch. But compared to the low number of total games for the system, that's a huge amount of A list games.
Then agian, The TurboGrafx 16 and Bonks and Slaughterhouse. 2 great games for a system that only had like 10 games total.
The NES to me was the clear winner as far as the system that brought home gaming back after fading away after the 2600. Probably had the most "great" games of any system. Even more then the followup SNES had IMO.
I don't know. I like being nostalgic here. But the arguement as to which was the best really can't be won.
Dreamcast for the drunk (Score:3, Funny)
Sega Dreamcast (Score:5, Interesting)
BLASPHEMY! Where is Intellivision??? (Score:5, Insightful)
No "Virtual Boy" love? (Score:4, Funny)
Chrono Trigger (Score:5, Interesting)
Of ALL time? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Which game system is it? (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Additional reasons (Score:5, Informative)
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