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LGP To Introduce Game Copy Protection
Posted by
timothy
on Tue Jun 24, 2008 09:10 AM
from the pay-to-pay-to-play dept.
from the pay-to-pay-to-play dept.
libredr writes "Phoronix reports that Linux Game Publishing have developed an Internet-based copy protection which will be used in their upcoming commercial game port, such as Sacred: Gold. Any user will be able to install the game, but to launch it he will need to provide a valid key and a password, which are validated against LGP's servers. The key/password combination will allow a user to install the software on different computers. However, an Internet connection will be required even for a single-player game, which might be a hassle for some users. This scheme has enraged some of the beta testers and LGP CEO, Michael Simms, responded he regrets he has to introduce a copy protection scheme, but has to do this since a lot more people download their titles instead of buying them, to the point they even received support requests for pirated version. But will every pirated copy magically transforms into a sale, or will this scheme just annoy legitimate users and be cracked anyway? One really wonders."
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Submission: LGP to introduce Game Copy Protection by Anonymous Coward
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Failsafe (Score:5, Informative)
The CEO did say that, should anything happen to LGP, he and all of his dev team are authorized to distribute patches which remove the check.
Re:Failsafe (Score:4, Interesting)
That's fantastic. I wish more companies would do this.
It would be very nice to be able to install a patch via CD to Windows XP to make it not authenticate against the MS servers once support for it dries up.
Parent
Re:Failsafe (Score:5, Insightful)
It's not good enough, though. Authorization the first time you log in? Maybe good enough. Authorization every time? What if I'm travelling and my hotel doesn't have Internet access. I guess I don't get to play your game. The game that I paid for.
Of course, if I just pirate a cracked copy, I don't have to worry about activation. Once again, companies fail to see the forest for the trees. Cracked versions of their games will get on the market. Once they do, not only are people downloading and installing them despite the intrusive copy protection, they're also driving otherwise legitimate customers to do the same.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I feel that as long as the company's server is online and responsive, that online authentication (like steam does) is a great idea with more benefits than drawbacks.
First of all, let's compare the pros and cons of using something like Steam to play Half Life 2 vs playing a pirated copy.
Using Steam to play Half Life 2, I
- get automatic patches
- can download all game content from any location I'm at without having to search for it.
Playing Half Life 2 pirated? Well, I
- probably won't have the most up to date
Re:Failsafe (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Failsafe (Score:5, Insightful)
This is virtually irrelevant.
Should anything 'happen to LGP' there may not be anyone left to distribute said patches. Are the patches already written, are tested? Or are they basically saying that while they are laying off employees and struggling to cover the rent as they file for bankruptcy they'll direct their efforts to writing patches for all their software?
Normally, for this sort of protection, the source / patches is put into escrow to be released when certain conditions are met. So that a 3rd party can act to release the source/patches when something 'happens' to the vendor.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Why alot of linux users want everything and they want it now. for example the BBC offer streaming iplayer, but people still produced a tool to download the full .mov versions (thanks iphone users :D).
I personally use a combination of the two due to technical reasons.
Hassle (Score:5, Insightful)
I have a better idea, if I must have this game, I'll just crack it. But then why go through all that trouble to "fix" a game I purchased and put the security of my system at risk by running an unknown program?? Might as well steal the whole thing.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
There has to be a better way - the best similarity I can find is what was used in broadcast TV around the 1950's (no broadcast flag there, but no recorders either). There were sponsors that paid for product placement and cheezy ads. How much would a company pay for the splash screen of a popular video game? Also, why use lame gener
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Depends on the ads (Score:4, Interesting)
Coca Cola is inserted into a Deus Ex-workalike.
Good: Soda cans are now Coke cans; there are a few Coke vending machines throughout the game.
Bad: Characters talk about how much they'd like a refreshing can of Coke Zero - full taste and zero sugar, yum.
Subway advertises in a multiplayer FPS.
Good: Billboards around the map show the "eat fresh" slogan; a downtown map contains a Subway.
Bad: Subway baners in every loading screen; every urban map contains a Subway; the Subway Muppet is seen anywhere near the game.
Dunkin' Donuts sponsors the next GTA.
Good: There are several DDs sprinkled throughout Abstract Concept City, acting as cop magnets; one mission can be made easier by distracting a cop with a box of donuts.
Bad: Every single cop in the city and half of the underworld have no other discussion topic but which kind of donut they love most; every problem can be solved by tossing donuts around, Hostess Fruit Cake-style.
In general, if the product placement is done tactfully and unobtrusively I entirely agree with it and am happy to have my games subsidized. If it's blatant and in-your-face I want the corp in question to piss off and take their product with them.
Parent
Re:Hassle (Score:5, Insightful)
When I walk into a store, I expect and accept a certain level of 'theft prevention' to be in place.
Perhaps they have security monitors covering the out of the way nooks of the store.
Perhaps they have someone in 'plain clothes' that wanders the store watching for people shoving things into their purse.
Perhaps they have certain items locked in a cabinet or with tags that trigger an alarm when removed from the store.
These things I accept because I realize that people steal and that one of the things a store must do to stay profitable is to cut down on amount of five finger discounts taken.
I realize that these things don't prevent theft 100%, and so does the store. In fact, the store probably also realizes that depending on the 'quality' of the store, a good percent of the shrinkage in their product could be due to their own staff.
But even though these things don't work 100%, I accept them. And do you know why? Because these things rarely ever become an inconvenience to me.
If, on the other hand, a store began requiring pat downs or strip searches every time I entered or left, I would stop patronizing them.
Is what LGP is proposing really a strip search level deal? Because honestly, when you threaten to just steal their games, that's what you are indicating to me. That you consider this an unreasonable measure for them to take that you would rather screw them over as a matter of principle.
Honestly, myself, I think this is a fairly benign manner to approach the issue.
Parent
Re:Hassle (Score:5, Insightful)
I also have had one of the tags go off that the cashier didn't remove for some reason, they didn't say over the loudspeaker stop thief nor did they handcuff me and call out the police. No. They admitted it was the store's fault, took off the tag and I was on my way. DRM is like whenever a tag goes off you handcuff the person and call the police until they give proof they didn't steal anything.
Parent
Re:Hassle (Score:4, Insightful)
No, but I still have a copier in my basement that can copy any book I feel like, yet publishers aren't making me verify my books. I even have a scanner and therefore could put an entire book on Limewire. As for the Duplicomatic 3000, if we had that there would be no need for work now would there be, so no stores, no money, no government. Nothing.
Oh sure, for now it is just a minor inconvenience, but still if this moves beyond games, think of how hard it would be to run a business if you depended on software with this level of copy protection. Or think of the Windows WGA when the servers were down. This is exactly why we need 0 DRM.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Hassle (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm wondering (in a half-baked idea kind of way) if a potential solution to this sort of copy protection is incorporating it into the game world. e.g., part of the storyline in suitable games involves going online, authenticating, and performing some sort of action. Something that is partly seemless, something that people actually want to do, not too much of a hassle, but limits involvement to paid-up users?
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
There was a video game called Rocket Ranger back in the 80's that used this device called a "Secret Decoder Wheel" to compute the fuel necessary to go from destination to destination. In fact, you had no way of punching in where you wanted to go. You only entered the fuel amounts.
Of course, the "Secret Decoder Wheel" was really a fancy lookup table [sayad.net], so it's wasn't too difficult for determined pirates to defeat this protection. But it was something in the vein you're thinking of.
The game can now be (legally!
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
In the late 1980s a lot of games moved to decoder wheels (e.g. Pool of Radiance, Captain Goodnight). In the beginning, most were fairly simple, single wheels, but as pirates cracked and included the lookup table automatically and later posted the answer on the screen (and sometimes forced a certain answer always) and publishing companies went to much more elaborate ones (making it all the more fun for pirates...). This form of copy protection died entirely with the CD-Rom because few people could copy the
Enraged some of the beta testers? (Score:5, Informative)
The beta mailing list for Sacred had some discussion on the new key feature but I'd hardly call it an "enraged" exchanged. No chair throwing was observed. Any protection system is a thorny issue.
Pretty much every commercial game I've bought for Linux has some sort of activation system, key lookup or similar. Most of them have some system for authenticating once online and then going offline thereafter. DropTeam even offered a way to generate an authorization on one machine and use it on a non-networked machine.
Storm in a teacup.
Cheers,
Toby Haynes
How is this bad? (Score:2, Insightful)
Really, anyone who "Downloaded" the beta will have an internet connection. You can disconnect if you still use dialup or satellite after it validates you. So a few kb of data. It lets you install to as many computers as you want too.
Look at how many people use steam. It does a lot more than validate an account and people love it. It is also better than an activation based system where you get X installs and that is it. Again, this lets you play it anywhere.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I think people like steam because it keeps games up to date for them, allows them to buy games, gives them good DL speeds, allows them to install the game anywhere, and because valve has done so much to improve the reliability of the service.
Pre-orders get beta access, they tend to offer great sale prices and combo packs. When I bought the orange box, I ended up with an extra copy of HL2. I was able to gift that extra license to a friend.
The 2 issues I had with my account were fixed quickly, and I can play
He should have learned... (Score:2)
I'd post the details, but almost everybody here was part of getting it removed anyway.
Huh? (Score:5, Insightful)
So, reducing market exposure via pirated copies is somehow magically going to translate into higher sales?
Honestly, who buys a game as a last resort when they can't find a pirated copy of it? Conversely, software piracy has introduced many people to games and game series that have directly led to sales.
It's amazing that some people still think casual piracy is detrimental to the video game market.
Re:Huh? (Score:5, Interesting)
A ton, and I mean, a TON of people. Its really just anecdotal (but thats enough to prove the amount is > 0 at least, hehe), but I always hear less tech savy people how they finally caved in and bought some game/software/windows/whatever after they couldn't find a crack/got a virus from a crack/crack glitched a part of the game/wanted to play NOW and the crack wasn't available yet.
PC game piracy is so high, that if you can just delay the mainstream pirated version a day or two, that probably translates in significant sale. Of course, the better, far more effective way, is to have the purchace of the game be a key to access the online part of the game... but that sucks for single player games like Oblivion/Devil May Cry/etc, to the point that the barrier for entry of offline games on PC becomes impossibly high.
Parent
the usual trap (Score:5, Insightful)
Copy protection that inconveniences the honest user will:
[ ] make some of your honest (and now inconvenienced) users walk away
[ ] make pirates come to you so they can pay and have a less comfortable (but legal) copy
Hint: Only one answer is correct.
false dichotomy (Score:3, Insightful)
some "piracy" (unsanctioned demos) will be converted to sales, and some legitimate users would be annoyed by the scheme.
If there is a legitimate demo I might try it, and then if I like it I will buy it. If there is no demo I won't download an unsanctioned game; I will wait until there is a review from one or three sites I trust, and or good word of mouth about it, and only then will I consider buying it.
DRM/copy prevention/anti"piracy" schemes WILL annoy me, and no amount of awesome will get me to buy such a game. It's good to hear about these things before I consider a game.
Of course, I run a mac and an ubuntu rig, so I'm not in the target market for many game companies anyway.
WTF? (Score:4, Insightful)
A thief walks into a fine winery and takes a bottle without paying for it. Just walks out the door. Two days later, the thief comes back and asks what food might go well with the wine he stole. The store, shocked and appalled at how brazen thieves are becoming, puts locks on the cabinets and asks that people contact an employee, who is nearby and ready to help at any time, to get wine out of the case.
The author of this summary would respond that the store is so inconveniencing its patrons that it ought to be closed down. That response has nothing to do with software freedom or idealism or the right way to do things or being sensitive when legitimately protecting one's assets. This is utter detachment from reality itself.
The OSS crowd steals from its own. This story and the few comments already ("If they put copy protection on it that annoys me in any way I'll just steal/crack it") makes that very clear. I'm siding with the authors on this one. Linux advocates always seem to complain when games won't work with Linux. Then, if this story is any indication, when they do work with Linux, the same people who complain that games for profit never work properly run out and immediately steal the game. Do you really expect people to develop multimillion dollar games for Linux if that's how things work?
Put your copy protection on the game, man.
Re:WTF? (Score:5, Interesting)
To each and every person whining on this thread about how copy protection violates the spirit of Open Source - yeah, it does. And if you don't like it, don't touch the game. Don't buy it - and don't download it either. This noise about how you have some sort of entitlement to steal/pirate/"illegally download"/crack/ "screw-the-man!"/whatever a game simply because you have a political disagreement about copy protection is pathetic.
The difference between Richard Stallman / the FSF and half the posters on this article is that RMS avoids software he disagrees with entirely and ACTIVELY contributes to software he morally supports. In other words, he has principles, votes with his actions, and his patronage of free software DIRECTLY contributes to more and better free software. Whereas the "gimme my Linux games NOW and FREE and screw copy protection!" crowd is in it for a shiny new game, but by NOT paying for (or otherwise patronizing - e.g. with word-of-mouth advertising, filing good bug reports) Linux games they are killing the future of Linux gaming for a quick fix now. This isn't the behavior of rational individuals - this is the behavioral profile of drug addicts.
With apologies to all the honest Linux gamers out there. It's a shame the rotten apples are so enthusiastic about spoiling it for the rest of us.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
The OSS crowd steals from its own. This story and the few comments already ("If they put copy protection on it that annoys me in any way I'll just steal/crack it") makes that very clear.
Hang on a minute. What makes all these folk OSS crowd? The fact that they read ./ ? Given that M$ windows is/was the more popular OS for viewing this site it should be clear that the link it not there.
Don't pull others into the mud with these very broad, unfair and incorrect assumptions.
Re:WTF? (Score:4, Interesting)
Your games (democracy, kudos) look very interesting and I am sure your current business model does well, but there are other ways people make money in the small games market. For example, what if your game was flash delivered and ad-supported? You might get more people playing it and more often (i.e. at work). This may or may not be the right choice for you, but it is a model that you do have to compete with in the small games market.
Anyway, democracy looks interesting and I might try the demo, but it would have to be pretty awesome for me to shell out $20 USD. It looks like the kind of game that I might pay $5 or less for. As a matter of full disclosure, I typically only buy used video games that are $10-$15 or less and only about 3 in a year. So I am a bit of a tough sell. Any other games I play are open source (Urban Terror), abandonware (I just tried the old Neuromancer game), or one of my small collection (Fallout [2], System Shock [NOT 2, that game pales in comparison to the original], Ascendancy).
Parent
Want linux games? Vote with your vallet ! (Score:4, Interesting)
Everybody always whines about the lack of linux games. We all know how much effort it takes to write a game, especially a good one. Now here is a company offering something that looks fairly decent, and includes a very minimal and polite way to ensure you actually payed for it. First thing everybody says, no I will not buy it, since it requires me to prove that I bought it ?? WTF ?? Are we really surprised there are not many commercial quality games out there ?
If you want linux games, you either make your own/help people make them, or you pay for them. It is that simple. Im buying this one when it is out of beta, just as I preferably buy hardware that has good vendor supplied OS drivers for them. Vote with your valet.
Re:Want linux games? Vote with your vallet ! (Score:4, Insightful)
I've bought games from them before. Some were ok, some were lousy. Well, ok, tastes vary.
The games that I bought frequently don't work, though, because they presume something about the OS that was true several versions ago. This implies that any game that does work is fragile, and can be expected to break in the future.
Now they want to add a technology that is long known for increasing the brittleness of games. I'm supposed to cheer at this? My reaction is to consider whether it's really worthwhile buying any of their games. Will the game still work after the SDL upgrade? I can't know ahead of time, because the source is closed. What about after the kernel upgrade? After the security patch?
This does not add benefit to me, it drastically reduces the benefit. Even if they offer support, it means many extra hoops to jump through, and it's not always true that they *have* a decent answer.
It's true, when a game of theirs breaks after this I won't know that it's the copy-protection that caused the break, but that's what I'll likely presume, as copy-protection is noted for causing breakages.
Parent
Copy protection - between a rock and a hard place (Score:4, Interesting)
This isn't specifically a Linux gaming issue. That it should be showing up in the Linux context just shows how serious the dilemma facing the PC gaming industry has become.
Before I go any further; I am a huge fan of PC gaming. I didn't own a console until I was 22. I grew up playing PC games like the Ultima series, the X-Wing and Wing Commander games and, later, the Westwood/Blizzard RTSes. I still buy and play PC games and the games as it's clear that, until developers start making better allowances for mouse and keyboard play, some genres (particularly RTSes) will never work properly on a console.
However, PC gaming is now hurtling towards an abyss. I know people have been saying this for years. But now, for the first time, I believe them.
We have now reached the point where, when a new first or third person shooter comes out on both PC and consoles, I will always buy the console version. Why? While I don't much like console controllers for playing fpses, I can tolerate them. The resolutions on my HDTV can't compare with what my PC can put out, but they are good enough. But, more than that, I know that with a console game, I do not need to worry about falling foul of a copy protection system which either means I can't read the disk (used to happen a lot... I had to go through 3 DVD drives before I found one that could run all of my games), have to remove some of my existing software to play it (can you imagine "Hey, it seems you have Gears of War game-data on your 360's hard-disk! No Halo 3 for you then!"?) or access the net every time I want to play it.
I can't entirely blame the PC gaming industry. Piracy levels are absolutely ridiculous. Of course, anybody with half a brain knows that not every pirated copy of a game means a lost sale. But there's no denying that more than a few people who would have considered a purchase will instead be lured by the siren call of bittorrent. I know a few people who work in the industry and a lot of these developers, outside of a few big superstars, operate on the thinnest of margins. Anything they can do to prop said margin up, they will.
I don't honestly know what the solution is. Between the traditional hardware hassles and the new copy protection woes, buying a PC game is starting to feel like more trouble than it's worth. Over on the consoles, the copy-protection mechanisms are invisible to the average end-user. With Sony deciding to get rid of region protection for games, I'm actually in a position where I have no complaints whatsoever regarding the extent to which my PS3 and PSP are or are not locked down.
Of course, this isn't to say that there aren't problems on the horizon in console-land either. My big emerging gripe there regards firmware updates. All three of the systems out there insist on these on a regular basis if you want to use any online features. The 360 version isn't too painful, but the Wii version is distinctly irritating and the PS3 updates are far too frequent, take far too long to download and fail to download far too often when the servers are busy.
Arrogance (Score:4, Insightful)
I am fine with the people who buy the game than use a cracked version. But the people who just pirate and justify it are just nuts. I actually don't care if you pirate the game, just don't make up stuff saying that what you are doing is right. If people didn't pirate, there wouldn't be DRM. Yet Slashdot blames the companies for adding DRM and openly admit they will pirate the game. This just further justifies their actions. I just don't understand why some of you are so irrational about this. It is like a religious debate where facts and logic have no room to exist.
Does this mean (Score:5, Insightful)
That piracy on linux is so rife that this is neccesary? If it really is the case that linux users are pirating games for the platform then shame on you. If we want linux to be taken more seriously as a gaming platform then you have to be prepared to put your wallet where your mouth is and support those companies that are putting the effort in.
N.
Re:Does this mean (Score:4, Interesting)
Not just games, any commercial software. I used to work for CodeWeavers and we had exactly the same problem - people would file support tickets but had not actually paid for the software. And this is a company that is a huge open source LGPL-code contributor!
We had internal statistics (that it's not my place to share) on how much the average support ticket cost, and how many customers filed tickets. To be blunt, the support load was nearly killing the company when I was there. Of course people warezing the binaries and then asking for help was one of the most offensive things they could do.
Sadly, using Linux does not convert one into a paragon of virtue. Piracy exists on every platform, it just varies as to the extent of the problem.
Parent
one less sale: count 'em (Score:4, Interesting)
I have many legitimately purchased games on my Linux box. I bought games from Loki, back when, specifically to encourage the developers to bring games over.
I will NOT buy any software with a "phone home" requirement. I just deleted LGP's bookmark.
What are we bitching about now? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:uh (Score:4, Insightful)
I think it's more of an issue that support costs a company money. This is normally fine, as it is factored into the cost of the game. If you pirate a game you really have no right to expect a paid employee to assist you in getting the game to run. You're on your own.
This sounds more like a statement of principle than anything else, but maybe I'm wrong.
Parent
Often, they want you to spend time helping them! (Score:3, Interesting)
However, some people have no shame.
Q: "I cracked this demo to have unlimited playtime and now it crashes when I jump on the foo
Re: (Score:2)
That's sort of underhanded, but still, a good way to see how far reaching the piracy goes. Doesn't say a lot about your opinion of your actual customers if you complain about piracy after you do it.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
If they pirated your game are they really your customers?
Re:uh (Score:4, Insightful)
I understand, I shouldn't steal in the first place- but I'd just assume it was horribly coded and that brings my likelyhood of purchase even lower.
*Disclaimer: I personally purchase all games I play- However, I do steal no-cd cracks so I don't have to bother, and I also steal serials some times to play a lan game of command and conquer.. I'm not purchasing two copies to play a few games against a friend in my own house. I'd say the only game that got that right was Sins of a Solar Empire (which I didn't even like), but there was no copy protection, and they even allowed multiple installs. It is a multiplayer game by design, and they accepted that. I didn't like the game too much, but am still happy I gave them my money.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Honestly, when has this ever -- EVER -- been the case?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Does it matter? Does the fact that pirates don't intend to buy the game somehow give them the right to procure it for free?
Re:No, yes (Score:4, Interesting)
Does it matter? Does the fact that pirates don't intend to buy the game somehow give them the right to procure it for free?
Yes it matters if their method doesn't turn pirates into legitimate customers, then it has no effect on their bottom line, and does nothing but prevent a freeloader from getting something for free, at a negative cost to the legitimate customers.
Is your desire to deny the pirates their fallacious right to free stuff so important that you will inconvenience your paying customers? At no benefit to sales but at a cost to customer satisfaction? And if your chest was a cannon, would you fire your heart at the pirates, Captain Ahab?
Hyperbole aside, I doubt this will end up having much effect on LGPs sales. Whatever tiny amount of pirates turn into paying customers will be balanced by those who don't want to buy a game with DRM of any kind, ending up more or less a wash. What, then, is the point?
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
No, it won't, but it might get them more sales by slowing down the pirates.
What? No one ever bought a game because they couldn't pirate it.
But plenty of people have not bought a game because it difficult to pirate it.
Personally, I don't pirate because I'm well to do and have plenty of money to spend on games. That and the games I prefer are usually small developers and I personally feel that they should continue making games so I buy them.
However, I have not bought games simply because of the copy protectio
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Who generated those statistics, and what advantage do they get from having the numbers come out that way?
I believe that somebody told you that. I will accept the possibility that you actually saw such a report. Before I'd accept that report as truth, I'd need to know a LOT more about it.
OTOH, I wouldn't bother to study enough to convince myself, because I don't care that much. I accept that they have their reasons, whatever they are. They don't change the cost/benefit to me.
I already don't buy games ver
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Given that it is an online key activation scheme, your post is equivalent to asking, "how will encryption ever work on an open system like Linux".