Slashdot Log In
Wizards of the Coast Declares Gleemax Site a Critical Failure
Posted by
ScuttleMonkey
on Mon Aug 25, 2008 02:11 PM
from the rolled-a-natural-one dept.
from the rolled-a-natural-one dept.
In a recent blog post, Wizards of the Coast Vice President of Digital Gaming Randy Buehler announced that they were killing their Gleemax social networking site. Originally designed to create a central hub where gamers could meet, discuss, and play games online, it has thus far been unable to deliver on the grandiose promises made at launch. "The mistake that I made, however, was in trying to push us too far too fast. I still think the vision for Gleemax is awesome: creating a place on the web where hobby gamers (or lifestyle gamers or thinking gamers, or whatever you want to call us) can gather to talk about games, play games, and find people to play games with. But I've come to realize that the vision was too ambitious. We've made progress down about ten different paths over the past eighteen months, but we haven't been able to reach the end of any of them yet."
This discussion has been archived.
No new comments can be posted.
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
Full
Abbreviated
Hidden
Loading... please wait.
I can just imagine the site. (Score:5, Funny)
Wow, that site sounded like it'd be a lot of fun.
It failed... (Score:5, Insightful)
After 2 years of being in 'alpha' status with nothing spent on advertising...
hmmm. Imagine that.
-Rick
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
Not only that, but apparently not especially easy to find (based on others comments as I don't hit the WotC site).
[John]
Re:It failed... (Score:5, Insightful)
After 2 years of being in 'alpha' status with nothing spent on advertising...
hmmm. Imagine that.
Wait, doesn't that work for Google's web apps?
Parent
Re:It failed... (Score:5, Interesting)
All of this is no joke, I swear it. You can call me bitter, you can call me a poor sport, but in the end, I got the last laugh when Gleemax decided to shut down. They were never going to make it featuring their own material, and everyone knew this.
Peter Adkison met with me in private at Origins Gaming Convention back when Gleemax was about to go live at Gen Con, and told me that he would focus everything around Geekalize at Gen Con if I could focus a little more funds around it, to provide fun stuff and prizes and such, but at that time, Origins was our last ditch effort to drum up sponsors, and the like. We went bankrupt in November or so of that year, after being up for one year, spending over 20,000 dollars in advertising, watching Wizards pull an over 20,000 dollar advertising deal from under me so they can steal my ideas, and watched as they took and took and took from anyone they could to try to put together SOMETHING to resemble a social networking site.
So I announce this... if Geekalize could get funding again, and not get ripped off like it did with Dead Mages on the Shores, I would bring it back, and make the social networking site for geeks purely open source, with API's, project management, and among other things, a chance for the community to seriously focus upon the site as a whole, and contribute features, abilities, etc, and all of the coding would be via a GNU license. I want to do this right this time, and I want to see a community for geeks and gamers succeed this time. All who would be interested in bringing forth a community for ALL THE Right reasons and ALL THE RIGHT measures to maintain it and contribute to it, feel free to message me, or visit Geekalize.com [geekalize.com] and click on the blog link that's on the filler page. I have also provided a link to the web archive on Geekalize to show we were in fact in existence.
Parent
Re:It failed... (Score:4, Insightful)
They should have extended off an existing social networking tool.
Try a facebook app or something.
They'd get the infrastructure for free, and be able to just focus on the gaming tools.
I'm sure myspace or something like it would LOVE the extra app. WotC endorsed and everything...
Parent
Re:I can just imagine the site. (Score:4, Funny)
And one day he'll learn that stats "36-24-36" don't mean "hitpoints, mana, and dexterity".
Parent
Re:I can just imagine the site. (Score:5, Funny)
Thirty Six Deterity!? Holy Jesus, if this is D&D, that lady can MOVE.
Parent
Re:I can just imagine the site. (Score:4, Funny)
Nah, she's just an epic character that started with 18 dex, got to level 40 and put all 8 stat boosts into dexterity and uses a +10 Gloves of Dexterity that cost her a cool 1,000,000 gold that she earned through prostitution and dancing.
Filthy dark elf bards.
Parent
Re:I can just imagine the site. (Score:4, Funny)
Oh, ok. So she can just outdance Olidammara.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
At level 40 it is safe to assume you are the biggest baddest smuggest prick motherfucker around.
Besides, what if you're trying to out-dance Gimpus the God of Wobbling?
Already Exists (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Already Exists (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:Already Exists (Score:5, Funny)
An online hub for gamers to meet already exists. It's called "World of Warcraft."
If you are playing WoW and think you are a gamer with other gamers, by all means, PLEASE just keep on doing what you are doing. You are where you belong.
I quite like the fact that WoW acts like a honey pot, keeping you entertained, and away from the rest of us. Ooops... was that out loud? ;)
Parent
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Already Exists (Score:4, Funny)
or an American Idol devotee
Depends on her stats.
Parent
Re:Already Exists (Score:4, Insightful)
Screw Blizzard, and screw 4th edition. :-(
I find it unfortunate that some people are very unhappy with 4E. From my limited D&D experiance, I'm actually finding 4th's combat system to be quite good and far better than anything in 3rd edition (including 3.5). And I've already done fare more creative roleplay things in 4th than I did in 3rd.
Though, on that matter, our 3rd Edition DM had plenty of vile for 4th edition (and 3rd edition for that matter, he was a core AD&D person), but found out that 4th edition was quite fun once he got actually played it and not just heard people saying things like "in 4th edition, hobbits don't have harry toes" kind of thing that just throws some people off the deep end.
It's too the point that I think most 4th edition haters simply haven't played the game for any reasonable amount of time. Surely it's not perfect, but I find the game mechanics to be very good and a great effort at just trying to make an entirely different style of game.
Perhaps it's also because I haven't sunk any money at buying 3rd edition books (and again when 3.5 was released) because I only started casually D&Ding a couple years ago and I've only been borrowing a friends book. Some of the resentment seems to come from people getting sick of spending lots of money on products.
Either way, I'm enjoying 4th edition immensely and would recommend anyone to at least try it out, roll up a character, see what they think. Maybe it's not for you, but don't knock it till you've tried it.
Parent
Re:Already Exists (Score:5, Insightful)
Wizards being owned by HAZBRO has had a more deleterious effect on D&D than WOW.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Yup. Got the free beta download [paizo.com] and it looks pretty good. Figure we'll try a game with it and see if it's worth grabbing the hard cover.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
"Screw the fact the 4E actually did the right thing and decoupled roleplay from game mechanics. . ."
Wait! You call that an improvement? That was how we played in First Edition and on into Second edition. What a lame edition. Glad I gave up D&D for WOW.
Hooray snobbery! (Score:5, Funny)
Drop the snobbery. All that does is make you look bitter.
Do you really think your D&D character who you've been playing off and on for 30 years since BECMI is so much more legitimate than someone's Tier 6-geared character with thousands of hours of play time? Hint: it's not.
Disclaimer: I play WoW. I have 2 70s, neither of which are geared for raiding (yet...). I also run a weekly D&D game and I started a board game club at my college. So if you want to try and argue I'm not a gamer... Well, go right ahead. I don't need your validation.
Oh, and my penis is HUGE (in Japan).
Parent
Re:Hooray snobbery! (Score:5, Interesting)
Drop the snobbery. All that does is make you look bitter.
I think you have soft spot. It was mostly a joke.
Do you really think your D&D character who you've been playing off and on for 30 years since BECMI is so much more legitimate than someone's Tier 6-geared character with thousands of hours of play time? Hint: it's not.
Seriously though. The thing about WoW is that you can't lose. You really can't. You can't even really experience a setback. The worst that happens is that you don't move forward for a day, and even that only happens at endgame. You also don't need to even think about teamwork until endgame. This is a big part of what its appeal is to a lot of people, and why it sprung ahead of its predecessors like EQ.
This is why I think WoW is equivalent to MMO pablum. In order to advance all you have to do is show up; it doesn't exactly require tactics, strategy, problem solving, imagination, mathematics, or any other cranial exercise, and their is simply zero risk of ending the day behind where you started.
Disclaimer: I play WoW. I have 2 70s, neither of which are geared for raiding (yet...).
Oh, so you should know what I'm talking about then. Great.
I also run a weekly D&D game and I started a board game club at my college. So if you want to try and argue I'm not a gamer... Well, go right ahead. I don't need your validation.
Everyone likes to slum around from time to time. And besides, its not like you -can't- think in WoW, its just that you don't have to.
FWIW I played WoW for a while too, and a friend and I quite enjoyed doing instances as a duo while they still conned yellow using gear we quested or looted or crafted ourselves as we levelled up. It really was quite challenging, and fun. But most people we saw just had a much higher level friend come along, or brought a full group of twinks, or just ground xp solo and bought all their gear in the AH or got it from guildmates, etc.
And yeah, you do have to up your game as a raider, and as you approach the raid endgame, but to do that you also have to pretty much give up on having any life outside of WoW, which is pathetic. And even then the biggest requirements of the top tier guilds is being able to show up and follow instructions.
Oh, and my penis is HUGE (in Japan).
Um. Thanks. I'm flattered. But I'm just not interested.
What is the best way to turn down unsolicited gay advances as a happily married heterosexual male anyway? Be a good topic for 'ask slashdot'...after all who better than a bunch of socially inept guys to give advice for socially awkward situations? ;)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I see what you're saying, but why couldn't this be any more true in D&D? The same mindless stuff could happen if you had a DM that granted it.
Sure it could happen. The difference is that in WoW, this playstyle is a norm. In D&D it would be a relatively isolated exception.
After all, it's not WoW's fault some level 70 powers a level 10 through a dungeon...
Isn't it? I call that poor game design that this is an 'effective way to play'.
There are all sorts of possible rational responses the game engine co
Re:Already Exists (Score:4, Funny)
Oh. Barrens chat.
(Throw in some sex and it's Goldshire).
Parent
you called it what??? (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm sorry. There's a reason you failed. You called it Gleemax.
Now, the internet is full of stupidly named stuff - a side-effect of trademark law, particularly in the American Corporate Reich, sorry "USA" - but gleemax is really dumb. Like having a disgusting headless dog with a leg bone jammed down its neck as your mascot dumb.
Feminine sanitary towel with gentle vibrating action? Real estate that comes with free MDMA ? Either way, gleemax is a terrible name.
Re: (Score:2)
The discerning self-abuser's tissue of choice.
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Who the hell in Marketing thought that was a good idea?
Re:you called it what??? (Score:4, Funny)
The brain in the jar, DUH!
Parent
Welcome to 2003, WotC (Score:5, Insightful)
Back then this COULD have taken off. But today, with a billion "social networking" sites (read: you make the content, I make the profit) around, hammering out yet another one is about as sensible as creating the better mousetrap or the better search engine. Yes, you could succeed. But the chances are so slim that you're better off trying something else. Why? Because EVERYONE does it. Everyone is out there creating the next better social networking page. With this bell or that whistle, but basically, in their core, they're just the same that myspace and its copycats have been for years.
How about trying something new instead of trying to recreate something that has been done so many times over that nobody cares anymore?
And no, I don't know what "something new" would be. If I did, I'd probably create it and become rich myself.
Re: (Score:2)
I was a big MTG player for the first 2 years, when it was massive fun. But when focus shifted completely to 'buying' new decks, in order to play less interesting sealed games, and eliminated 'building' new decks, in order to play more interesting constructed tourneys, they lost me.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Only if you confuse 'social networking' with 'a site for everyone and his uncle doing everything under the sun that interests them' in the manner that Facebook/Live Journal/MySpace does. On the other hand, I'm a member of multiple niche social networking sites and they are excellent resources t
Seriously though.... (Score:5, Funny)
Trying to establish a name as a place where idiots can blather mindlessly about irrelevant(though perhaps entertaining) subjects on the Internet?
That's not a crowded marketplace at all.
Makes sense (Score:5, Insightful)
They roll out Tiny Adventures [facebook.com] for Facebook (which is still having some issues it seems) then drop their social site. I wonder if this is part of a plan to focus on "apps" or ways of connecting to the already established bases of MySpace/Facebook?
1) I'm sure more than a few D&D/P&P RPG fans are on those sites already.
2) More visibility. Running your own site dedicated to just RPGs will only attract a certain crowd.
Regarding #2, I'm slightly above "casual" P&P RPG follower, but I hadn't really even heard of their site until this /. posting.
Am I the only one... (Score:3, Funny)
...who remembers a slashdot-like site named Planet Crap, where gamers, game webmasters, and game developers gathered, posted, discussed, flamed, and trolled?
I'd say 1999 called and wants its idea back!
wrong mistake (Score:5, Insightful)
The mistake that I made, however, was in trying to push us too far too fast
More likely the reverse was true. Not enough promotion (to the sort of people who would use it) or that they were turned off by what it offered, or how it was presented.
You can never have too much progress, unless of course you outrun the capabilities of your website providers or programmers.
Re:wrong mistake (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, I never heard of it until today. Sounds like they did a great job letting people know about it.
Parent
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
The problem wasn't in promoting the service. The problem was in BUILDING the service. They never had an official launch because, in part, they kept changing directions on what the main focus of the service was going to be.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I used to frequent their old forum a lot, but the way they launched this new thing was a massive failure. They started by alienating a significant part of their existing user base, and didn't advertize enough to replace those with others.
Even the name they choose was a failure, as it references some obscure M:TG card, so is basically a corporate insider joke, not something the average joe internet user will recognize.
And they missed to target their top audience (Score:4, Insightful)
I find it quite weird that there doesn't seem to be a post about Gleemax in Slashdot's history [slashdot.org]: I wonder how many other sites they missed out on.
Not enough crunch (Score:3, Insightful)
Having written, albeit small bits, in the gaming industry, we often talk about crunch, the real rules and meat that you can really grip onto and take and run with. I mean, the backstory is nice on some products, but the crunch is the stuff I can use as a player or gamemaster.
Gleemax never had much in crunch. It was all fluff and drove me crazy. It had a crappy name. (Seriously, the concept of maximum glee brings up either the image of a hyperactive 5-year-old or a massive of singing sweater vest people - either way, not attractive.)
It also seemed to try to be everything to everybody, which is a failure.
They SHOULD have tried a scaled back thing oriented towards a product line and then expanded slowly to guarantee enough content and interaction. The way it was, when I first checked it out, was that I couldn't do anything, and there was rarely enough new to see, so I stopped coming back.
And seriously, if I play an MMORPG, then I already HAVE a community. I don't need a second. I play a few single/multiplayer games (Civ IV, NWN2, etc.) and one MMORPG (EVE).
Saturated Market (Score:5, Informative)
They had well entrenched websites already that did a lot of what they initially offered.
www.enworld.org though simple, has a plethora of reviews, forums, news, chat
www.paizo.com was able to get interest because they carried more than just wizards of the coasts products.
It's a tough market I would think. People that want to socialize in an alternate setting probably use something like second life. People that want to mindlessly kill stuff and gather equipment and power game probably play warcraft.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
And http://www.rpg.net/ [rpg.net] seems to attract quite a few gamers including an entire section just for DnD folks.
http://www.penandpapergames.com/ [penandpapergames.com] is supposed to be a general gamer and locater site but much of the conversation is DnD related.
[John]
No Way To Start A Communiy Like Killing It (Score:4, Insightful)
Wizards of the Coast seems to be trying to do as much as possible to damage itself online. Magic Online v3 brought a new client that almost everyone hated, has compatibility problems galore and was still delayed for something like two years.
It's pathetic.
Poor design (Score:2, Insightful)
There seems to be a fairly sizable community there though so I don't know exactly what the problem is.
With that said, their website is very poorly designed. As a newb going to the site I was totally confused. Too much crap all over the screen and clicking on stuff sends me to various different websites, very confusing. There is an overuse of graphical content, little consistency and poor organization.
As a new person coming across the site I can't even figure out what the point or purpose of it is and I'm
Is it really possible? (Score:4, Interesting)
Forget games, for a minute.
Is it really possible, here in 2008, to "create a central hub for XYZ on the web where XYZ-ers can gather to talk about XYZ, do XYZ, and find people interested in XYZ" and have it actually work? Does it work to start from scratch and plan such an empire, or do you have to have the patience to let these kind of sites naturally evolve?
Is it even possible to have a "central hub" of _anything_ on the web? What's wrong with this thinking?
Another WOTC Net Blunder (Score:5, Insightful)
a study of gleemax (Score:4, Funny)
originality: FAIL
name: FAIL
marketing: FAIL
understanding of their demographic: FAIL
I don't know what they were thinking. If they had actually *asked* a gamer what they thought, perhaps this wouldn't have failed (because it never would have started).
Really. I mean, Gleemax? Maximum Glee? Or a Gleaming Ax? Who the hell are they aiming it at? Japanese girls, or violent barbarians?
Re:hmm (Score:4, Insightful)
They did it backwards. Typically, you are supposed to underpromise and overdeliver.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Maybe it is a take on the drug name (Gleemonex) from the movie 'Brain Candy'?
Slogan: Gleemonex makes it feel like it's 72 degrees in your head...all the time.
Re: (Score:2)
Pocket D [wikia.com] and Atlas Plaza [wikia.com].