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The Gamer's Bill of Rights

Posted by Soulskill on Fri Aug 29, 2008 08:59 PM
from the not-as-catchy-as-a-gamer's-magna-carta dept.
Edge Magazine is running a piece by Brad Wardell, CEO of game developer Stardock, in which he presents a "Gamer's Bill of Rights." Stardock teamed up with Gas Powered Games to develop a list of ideals they think all game publishers should follow. Some are rather basic operational guidelines (not requiring a disc to play, minimum requirements that make sense), and some are aimed at repairing the damaged relationship between game companies and customers ("Gamers shall have the right to not be treated as potential criminals by developers or publishers"). Wishful thinking or not, it will be interesting to see if they manage to get other publishers to sign on.
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  • by mactard (1223412) on Friday August 29 2008, @09:04PM (#24805257)
    not have to pay fo...wait what?
    • Re:Gamers shall... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Z00L00K (682162) on Saturday August 30 2008, @01:38AM (#24807325) Homepage

      Why only gamers?

      Replace it with Consumers. All the DVD:s with the non-skippable FBI warnings that nobody ever wants to see and which destroys the experience of the movie.

      • Not only that, some DVDs disable the fast forward so that you have to look at up to 10 minutes of trash before you can view the movie. It gets even worse, the movie that they were hyping often is a bomb and no longer available but you have to sit through the previews nonetheless. Disney is a BIG offender in this and add to that they specialize in kids movies. Try to explain to a crying kid that just wants to view his favorite movie that he has to wait until the trash is done showing.

        • Re:Gamers shall... (Score:4, Interesting)

          by BlueBat (748360) <flakeNO@SPAMfrontiernet.net> on Saturday August 30 2008, @08:28AM (#24809531)
          Actually, I hate not being able to go directly to the menu and choosing to play the movie or going to a scene or even seeing the extras. After the second or third time that you have put the movie in, it gets VERY annoying that I can't skip all of that crap. The first time is fine when I want to see the trailers and such but after that, they are just annoying. Let me watch what I PAID for and stop bugging me you jerks.
        • Re:Gamers shall... (Score:5, Insightful)

          by Jarjarthejedi (996957) <bookreader13.cox@net> on Saturday August 30 2008, @10:44AM (#24810711) Journal

          More like "Oh no! I have to watch a screen of legalese and possibly some junky trailers for fifteen to thirty seconds because I bought the movie legitimately! Why didn't I just pirate it and skip this junk!"

          That screen can get very annoying when you know that it's well within your abilities to get the movie for free without it, but instead you chose to buy it legally and are now being punished for it.

  • by vlad_petric (94134) on Friday August 29 2008, @09:05PM (#24805259) Homepage
    They do what they preach. Galactic Civilizations I, II and their expansions were always released like that, and they were highly successful.

    I really don't see the "wishful thinking" part. Their model actually works. People who pirate aren't gonna be stopped by copy protections. The only effect those protections have is to annoy the hell out of the paying customers.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 29 2008, @09:06PM (#24805273)

    Brad Wardell is also calling for:

    * Ponies for everyone

    * Sunshine and rainbows, everyday

    * World peace out of the power of love

    And in his most daring position of them all:

    * He's AGAINST kicking puppies

  • Right #11 (Score:5, Interesting)

    by kwabbles (259554) on Friday August 29 2008, @09:10PM (#24805303)

    Gamers shall have the right to modify their games to alter their singleplayer experience.

    • Why? Ok, it doesn't harm anyone as it's basicly like cheating at solitaire, but is it something the game developer/publisher should spent resources on? Unless of course they intend to have user-created content through an editor of course, but I don't see any ethical problem with just saying "this is how the game works, enjoy!" If you really wanted to pull that angle I'd focus on having bugs fixed instead, but that applies equally well to single and multiplayer.

      • It seems to me you've answered your own question. They might want to do something with user mods. The exclusive right to do something commercial with user mods is one of their assets under copyright law, but it isn't worth much if people are just going ahead and doing it without you. If you've ever been involved selling a company, you get through things that have real value fairly quickly, then you spend ten times the time haggling over things that might have value in some kind of radically different fut

    • And don't forget the Ten Commandments [cad-comic.com] of gaming.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 29 2008, @09:23PM (#24805413)

    "#9 Gamers shall have the right to demand that a single-player game not force them to be connected to the Internet every time they wish to play."

    I don't want to EVER have to connect to the Internet to play a game after I buy it. Product activation, DRM, Steam - these are all the reasons why I have stopped buying games. And I used to buy a lot of them.

    I'm still curious as hell over whether Half Life 2 is as good as Half Life 1. But I'll never know, because Valve doesn't want to allow me to buy it.

    • by Psychotria (953670) on Friday August 29 2008, @09:43PM (#24805557)
      To be fair, I was furious with Valve when I purchased HL2 and only had modem (56k) at the time. Over time I have become less hostile towards their content delivery/activation. They did a little thing like recognising that I already had licences to various games when I bought the orange box, and allowed me to give away copies of these previous purchased games. Compared to MS and others, I found this strategy to be wonderfully "honest" and rewarding. I still hate the internet registering/activation/communication thing, but what valve/steam did (in my eyes) put them up quite a few notches in my respect-meter.
      • Just an FYI every time I reformat, I just backup all the .gcf files in Steam\steamapps except for winui.gcf and plunk them back into the folder once I install Steam again. It's worked for the past three years for me... no activation... no nada.
        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          This is correct. Taking it a step further, all my apps are on a seperate partition, including steam. I don't even have to "restore" anything when reinstalling windows, I just make a new shortcut to the steam app (and regedit it to run automatically when I start windows if I want, but I don't find that necessary).
  • These are actually more closely related to business ethics than anything else.

    More developers are calling for the removal of DRM in their games these days. Publishers don't seem to listen or care and that's part of the problem.

    I seriously see EA just not listening to customers. They don't care either. EA believes it doesn't need PC gamers. They believe they can be profitable with console titles alone. And more publishers are believing this every day. LucasArts has decided not to publish for PC due to

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      This gets pointed out a lot but while your praising STEAM it is its own DRM implementation, and the important part here, watch carefully;

      It's not the DRM most people hate, it's the poor implementation of it. If it worked smoothly nobody would notice it. But since every user is stuck with CD keys, looking for the play disc, online activations, and verifications, and its all buggy as shit. Then it gets noticed.

      STEAM is a method of DRM that doesn't intrude on your gaming experience, most people don't even real

  • It's nice that they're saying that... but doesn't their Impulse digital distribution platform contain DRM? Their own site [impulsedriven.com] doesn't seem to say either way, the Wikipedia article [wikipedia.org] says it's a DRM platform and this post on their forum [impulsedriven.com] suggests that Impulse supports DRM but Stardock doesn't take advantage of it in their own products.
  • by Adrian Lopez (2615) on Friday August 29 2008, @09:36PM (#24805501) Homepage

    Like I said on GamePolitics, here's one additional "gamer right" that Stardock wouldn't like (their EULA forbids it), but which I think is essential:

    "Gamers shall have the right to sell their copy of the game to somebody else, provided they remove any copies of the game from their own systems upon doing so."

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      I do believe in most countries they can't stop you. In NZ all warranty etc must also be honored even after a few rounds with eBay.
  • Can I expect that their next release will live up to each and every one of these rights?

    If so, I am already interested.

    If not, then I have to assume this is all bravado in order to paint their company in a "Holier then thou" image.

    As the man said, "Put your money where your mouth is".

  • 0: The freedom to run the program, for any purpose
    1: The freedom to study how the program works, and adapt it to your needs. Access to the source code is a precondition for this.
    2: The freedom to redistribute copies so you can help your neighbor.
    3: The freedom to improve the program, and release your improvements to the public, so that the whole community benefits. Access to the source code is a precondition for this.

  • For my November 2006 Escapist article "StarForce Must Die [escapistmagazine.com]," I asked blogger Bill Harris to present a "DRM Bill of Rights [escapistmagazine.com]" that resembles Brad Wardell's list. Really, in a sensible world that recognized our right to control the information stored on our own computers, this would all be common sense.

  • It's kind of disturbing when people label something that would otherwise be good to have, but otherwise don't have a real *right* to, a "Bill of Rights", when the original, real "Bill of Rights" were more fundamentals being put in for a "just-in-case" measure, more clarifying what they felt were always being protected, for a safety measure. In fact, some opposed the Bill of Rights' inclusion on the grounds that it would lead us down the route it has today--that they are what prevents the government from pa

  • 11) Publishers are free to break rules 1-10, but they must clearly state the violation on the box.
  • Gamers have the right to remain silent (about bad games). They have a right to an attorney.

    Anything they do/say can and will be used against them in their moms basement.

  • 11 (Score:3, Insightful)

    by mollymoo (202721) on Friday August 29 2008, @09:56PM (#24805681) Journal
    11: No publisher should ever be so stupid as to think a server browser isn't a necessary component of an online game. Infinity Ward, are you listening?
  • Thou shalt listen to your customers.

  • Linux Rights. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Zombie Ryushu (803103) on Friday August 29 2008, @11:07PM (#24806207)

    What about the right to play the game under Linux or Mac? Trust me, Game developers hate Linux with a Holy passion.

    Its a religious thing.

    • For the same placement, that's "AOE" for dvorak users. When the bindings are not changed, we have to deal with what would be ",a;h" on a qwerty keyboard. Another words the buttons are all over the map with no logical sense....
    • TFGH

      It opens up many more keys for the ring and little fingers to utilize.

      I actually use TFVH, with G as a quick-action key, but everyone I know things I'm insane to do so.

      • TFGH

        It opens up many more keys for the ring and little fingers to utilize.

        I actually use TFVH, with G as a quick-action key, but everyone I know things I'm insane to do so.

        TFVH? Wow... TFBH wouldn't be too bad though.

        • 4562 (ESDF is only good on an ergonomic keyboard with straight columns)

          4562 is pretty useless on a laptop unless you've got one of those new Lenovo monsters...

    • by Psychotria (953670) on Friday August 29 2008, @09:36PM (#24805503)
      Well that's crazy. I have, sitting on my desk, a purchased copy of Rainbow 6 Vegas 2. I uninstalled it about 30 minutes after installing it. My computer far exceeds (as in 400% or more) the minimum specifications. The game still ran like crap. So I took it off and will never buy a game from that publisher again. I am not going to go through the hassle of trying for a refund. I am not going to go through the hassle of telling them I will never buy one of their games again. They won't listen anyway. So, it will sit here on my desk with my beer on top of it. Expensive coaster? Yeah, but I don't care :-)
      • Funny you say that.

        I had the exact same experience with two of the Rainbow 6 franchise games. Yeah. I was stupid enough to go back a second time, but that was the experience that led me to investigate, and further my knowledge of, the entire gaming industry. Odd side effect, but it actually improved my gaming experience in the long-term.

    • by Broken scope (973885) on Friday August 29 2008, @10:02PM (#24805721) Homepage

      What? They won't let you download shit off their servers unless they can verify that you paid for the game?

      Boo Fucking Hoo.

      They basically gave the game out for free. A fully functioning and playable game for free, a game me an my roommates spent countless hours messing around with for a few weeks, un patched.

      Pardon them for not letting the people who didn't support them with a purchase suck down their bandwidth too.

      Jesus fucking Christ people are never happy. It's never enough for some people unless they can have what the want and maybe if they are feeling generous toss a few bucks to the creators.

        • by Skye16 (685048) on Friday August 29 2008, @11:08PM (#24806215)

          10mb patches spread over a few tens of thousands of people? Are you kidding?

          If it's not costing them that much, how about YOU fucking pay for it, you arrogant sonuvabitch?

          • by tlhIngan (30335) <slashdot AT worf DOT net> on Saturday August 30 2008, @12:06AM (#24806685)

            That's the business model on how to cope with piracy. Release a product, and only let legit users update the product. Pirates will just have to keep downloading new versions of the product (or find someone distributing the patch).

            I see nothing wrong with this - patches can be considered "support" and pirates don't deserve support. If they wanted support, they can buy the product and get the updates with no issues, or just log onto their favorite site and grab the update that way.

            They know people will pirate their software. So they make it worthwhile to be a legit owner - patches, updates, etc. Let the cheapskates get their way, and let the legit owners know they're appreciated. In effect, it boils down to, is your time hunting for updates (and fixing any viruses/trojans/etc that get installed) on your favorite pirate sites worth it compared to just buying a copy and having it do the updates for you without any worries. Seems a fair trade.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      The problem is that those of us that do that are very much in the minority on this.

      As much as I'd love to play Spore, I'm not going to be buying a copy as long as I'm going to be subjected to that draconian DRM. It's a shame, but I'm not willing to put up with that bullshit.

      I don't mind paying for software, but it needs to be a reasonable price, fully completed and the copy protection basically non-existent. As a customer, it isn't me that should have to put up with the pain in the ass which is DRM.

    • by donscarletti (569232) on Friday August 29 2008, @10:20PM (#24805887)
      Lets go over the points individually then.
      1. Not really a developer issue.
      2. Supreme Commander was stable and polished out of the box, it had a couple of balance issues and bugs like anything, but was generally fairly good.
      3. The Supreme Commander updates have been frequent, useful and quick to download and install. If it's anything like Total Annihilation the patches will keep on coming for years and will include new content as well as fixes.
      4. Honestly, I don't find starting into an updater that annoying, but for what it's worth, Supreme Commander goes straight into the main menu. Does it even come with an updater? I've always downloaded my patches from my ISP's mirror. You don't even have to use their shitty GPGnet thing either.
      5. I've played Supcom with a PC at the bottom of the specs and it worked fine on small levels and was still playable on big ones. It's required specs may be high, but then again so are the specs recommended on the box.
      6. SupCom installed SecureRom at launch but removed it in v3223. They broke their own rule, but seem to have learned their lesson. Lets wait until they next release a full game to see if they are genuine in this.
      7. SupCom is out on Steam which allows it to be downloaded in full.
      8. I don't know if Gas Powered Games or THQ think I'm a criminal. A lot of people think I might be because of the way I dress.
      9. SupCom can be played single player without an internet connection.
      10. SupCom can be played without a DVD.

      So that's eight passes, one unknown and one late resubmission. They are doing comparatively well.