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Resurrecting Old Games, What Works?
Posted by
ScuttleMonkey
on Mon Dec 29, 2008 05:11 PM
from the waiting-for-a-daikatana-sequel dept.
from the waiting-for-a-daikatana-sequel dept.
There has definitely been a resurgence of old games being made new again through various methods. Unfortunately, any time you reinvent an old classic you risk either alienating the original audience or not making it appealing enough for the a new audience. "Capcom has been at the forefront of the recent remake boom, re-imagining a number of their classic titles as downloadable games. Bionic Commando, for example, was given a high-definition 2.5D makeover, and a rockin' remixed soundtrack with Bionic Commando: Rearmed. Capcom also re-released a new version of Street Fighter II on the way, with the lengthy new title Super Street Fighter II Turbo HD Remix. Interestingly, both games are coming out near new entries in their respective franchises: Street Fighter IV and Bionic Commando. But the question remains, how do you decided what games will still appeal to the current gaming audience? " What games can be counted amongst the success stories, and which can be chalked up as utter failures?
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You tell me... (Score:2)
I don't know if there are any fans of the classic game Crossfire [wikipedia.org] here, but I'd love to know if this reimagining [wiicade.com] of the game does it justice*. I've tried a few clones (notably SDL Crossfire [burningsmell.org], GridBlaster [videogamebiscuit.com], and Gridfire [foppygames.nl]), but none of them were very satisfying. In fact, most of them made changes that I felt were distateful to anyone who enjoyed the original. (Or maybe I was the only one who played with keyboard controls? Hmm...)
Anyway, try it out and let me know what you think. And if you have a Wii, give it a g
Update, or rebuild completely. Renovation = Ruin. (Score:3, Interesting)
Pac-Man World [wikipedia.org] has to be one of the worst failures. And it illustrates what I hate about these updates---that the designers try to reimagine the game from scratch.
Change the graphics, not the gameplay. When designers follow this rule, the game succeeds. (See Super Mario World [wikipedia.org] and A Link to the Past [wikipedia.org].) When designers disregard this rule, the game fails. (See Spy Hunter [wikipedia.org].) None of the best games became classics because players really loved the names of the characters. We loved the gameplay. The new Street Fight
pong (Score:5, Insightful)
it's a conundrum;
Anything with a strong amount of Nostalgia for it is going to suffer from the fans who still play it proclaiming "they changed it, now it sucks" - See: Fallout 3, or any remake of Master of Magic ever done.
At the same time, some really great work has been done with remaking old games. I, for one, LIKED fighting the Enclave alongside a Giant mecha that spewed anti-communist propaganda.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
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But it probably shouldn't have been called Fallout 3 since it is such a radical departure from previous games.
Ok, you have a different definition of the word "radical" than I do.
Fallout 3:
1) Has (virtually) the same setting
2) The same enemies
3) The same leveling system
4) The same targeting/criticals system
5) Extremely similar plotlines/quests
6) Even a virtually identical inventory system! (Which is something they should have changed, IMO)
What is so "radically" different about Fallout 3 compared to the other
Re:pong (Score:4, Interesting)
I think a focal difference between Square Enix remakes and classic arcade remakes is that Square games are story-based, not action-based. You can wrap the Final Fantasy plot around a new engine and it still works, but you can't take something like Pac Man and drop him into Grand Theft Auto's world... even though the idiotic company that now calls itself "Atari" has released dozens of these atrocities.
I would welcome an FF7 remake. It looked dorky when it was released, owing to the Playstation's pathetic 3D limitations. A more photo-realistic or at least high-def anime look would give more weight to the story, instead of making it look like a bunch of Lego Minifigs acting all emo.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Film and TV remakes generally are disliked because people loved the original and the idea of going back and "updating" them seems offensive when the originals were just fine to begin with. Such unnecessary meddling has become the trademark of lame filmmaker wannabes (like McG) and washed-up former greats (like George Lucas and Ridley Scott).
There are, of course rare exceptions to this rule. Scorsese's remake of "Cape Fear" and Ron Moore's remake of "Battlestar Galactica" are both far superior to the origin
ask a 12 year old (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:ask a 12 year old (Score:5, Interesting)
Exactly.
Nintendo's release of old games to the Wii is absolute genius. Those games were so popular for a reason. It wasn't for their killer graphics - it was because they held your attention and entertained you for hours. Good graphics are nice, but good graphics are a dime a dozen and are relatively easy to reproduce. But to have the storyline and the immersion of a game like "The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past" is rare thing.
Like you said, your son laughed at Pac-Man graphics, but Pac-Man is a very good game. Same as the many other "oldies but goodies" that exist out there. I think, as players become bored with their new Wii games, they'll start checking out some of the old titles and will be pleasantly surprised at the quality of those games that captured my generation's attention. And, of course, at $5.00 a pop, it's hard not to do an impulse buy.
Parent
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Those games were so popular for a reason. It wasn't for their killer graphics
It's easy to say "it wasn't about the graphics back then," but let's not forget that the NES's graphics were considered "killer" at the time, at least for a $200 home console in 1985. Certainly better in most respects than the graphics on an Atari 2600 or a Commodore 64.
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I remember loading Super Mario Brothers on my NES back in the day and being amazed by the "incredible" quality of the graphics. I had come from an Atari 5200 and my jaw dropped at the mere fact that Mario and Luigi looked like actual people and not like square representations of people. When Super Mario Brothers 2 came out, I was amazed that the corners of the ledges were rounded. Of course, little items like that pale in comparison to Super Mario Galaxy today, but back then it was a giant leap in graphi
Re:ask a 12 year old (Score:5, Funny)
32-bit Playstation wiped the floor with the Nintendo 64
I wouldn't
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quite call
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it wiping
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the floor with...
Parent
Re:ask a 12 year old (Score:5, Interesting)
Easy to learn, hard to master.
That makes a good game a great game. And many older titles have that charm.
Parent
Re:ask a 12 year old (Score:5, Insightful)
Nintendo's release of old games to the Wii is absolute genius. Those games were so popular for a reason. It wasn't for their killer graphics - it was because they held your attention and entertained you for hours.
That has little to do with the age of the game. The ratio of garbage to memorable has most likely stayed similar. These old "classics" are just the very few games that have survived the quality filter, out of myriad lumps of crap.
Parent
Re:ask a 12 year old (Score:4, Insightful)
Very true. I've been playing video games since the Atari 2600 days, and there have always been a myriad of crappy games out there. Just as an example, during the 2600 days after video games became a hot commodity, there were "game companies" out there hiring anybody who could write code at all and cranking out anything they could think of as a video game. Most were pretty terrible. It put such a bad spin on the whole video game scene that until the NES came out many had assumed that the entire concept of the "video game" was to be a passing fad.
For every system I can think of though, out of the hundreds (possibly thousands in the case of Playsation 1 & 2) of games released for them, I can remember maybe 10 to 12 really stand out titles that I'd really want to go back and play.
Parent
Re:ask a 12 year old (Score:5, Insightful)
No, it's something the die-hard gamers have been begging Nintendo (or someone) to do for at least a decade. It's not a coincidence that every time a new console or handheld is hacked to run homebrew code, emulators are the first applications to be ported. Nintendo could have made a killing many times over by selling PC-based emulators and game ROMs online at something like $1 a pop, but instead they chose to sue and harass the emulation community. (I.e., their fans. Sound like a familiar story?)
But what irks me the most about the Wii thing is that the old games are pretty damned expensive. According to this page [wikipedia.org] NES games average $5 and SNES games average $8. That's quite a lot of money just for a trip down memory lane.
Parent
Re:ask a 12 year old (Score:4, Interesting)
As opposed to the $50 and $60 price tags those games carried when they were brand new? What you're not realizing is that to a generation of gamers older than you (most likely) that price is an INCREDIBLE bargain. And still even if you had a working console to this day, those are the prices I would expect to play for cartridges at flea markets/auctions and in my opinion is a completely reasonable price to pay. If you're going to pick something to complain about these games for, price should not be it.
Parent
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Mega Man 9 is awesome. I'm glad they stuck with the 8 bit graphics (and stayed 2D). I hate it when 2D games go 3D. It almost never works out well.
The castlevania games have stayed 2D (for the most part) and are pretty fun too. Castlevania: Symphony of the Night is in my shortlist for best game ever.
I think too many games focus on the graphics these days and forget that better graphics does not equal more fun. Pac-man, Donkey Kong, Space Invaders, Missile Command, Joust etc weren't fun because we could t
Street Fighter? (Score:5, Funny)
Pfft, I'm holding out for Super Street Fighter II Turbo HD Remix-Remix.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Bah, I want Super Street Fighter II EX Turbo HD Remix Champion Edition Alpha: The World Warrior - Fight for the Future.
Need I say more? (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Need I say more? (Score:5, Funny)
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Hmm, looks like that one got by you.
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Re:Need I say more? (Score:4, Funny)
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Your comment violated the "postercomment" compression filter. Try less whitespace and/or less repetition.
Parent
Re:Need I say more? (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Depends on gameplay and nostalgia (Score:4, Interesting)
It seems that a lot of the success of a resurrection of an old game depends on the gameplay (how it transitions to modern graphics, modern controls, modern gameplay expectations) and on the nostalgia associated with the game.
As an example of the latter, I would actually likely dislike a remake of The Secret of Monkey Island (MI 1).
Gameplay seems to be important though. Some of the classic games relied on gameplay, whilst others relied on story, etc. It doesn't seem like the gameplay from 1990 always transitions well into modern games. The culture of the gamer has shifted, as have the expectations. Graphics alone can almost make a game successful these days, although not completely; whereas back in 1990, graphics seemed to play a small role. Sure, it did to some extent, but I think it was less "realistic graphics" that was of interest back then(Commander Keen != realistic, even a classic like Loom wasn't realistic, although it was certainly colorful and "pretty").
As for successes that I have personally played, I think the continuation of Prince of Persia appears to have done fairly well.
There are only a few recent games that I have any lasting nostalgic impressions about, but there are quite a few old games that do. One reason is personal taste, of course, but I think games in the past had to rely on something else than games typically do now. Of course, everyone has heard this 500x, but that's ok. :)
One game that I wish WAS remade with more modern engines was Baldur's Gate. I loved the game (granted, it was my first CRPG, a genre I have since come to really enjoy more than any other), the story, the characters, etc... but I think if it were remade and put into even the Aurora 2 engine, it would do alright as a remake.
Re:Depends on gameplay and nostalgia (Score:5, Informative)
You should look up "BGTutu." It lets you play through the original Baldur's Gate using the BG2/ToB engine. That solves a lot of the resolution/interface issues.
Of course I do agree that a full modernization of the games would be best ... I gotta say though, I think BG would lose something in a full 3d engine.
Parent
Re:Depends on gameplay and nostalgia (Score:4, Interesting)
I've found http://www.usoutpost31.com/easytutu/ [usoutpost31.com] (EasyTutu) easier to use. ;)
Parent
Re:Depends on gameplay and nostalgia (Score:4, Insightful)
One reason is personal taste, of course, but I think games in the past had to rely on something else than games typically do now
Just a myth... back in the "good old days", many eye-candy-only games were made too - not just the good ones people remember. Sure, there were "Rainbow Island", "Impossible Mission", "Lemmings", "Elite" and "Psi-5 Trading Company" and "Wizkid" - but there were plenty of games we have forgotten. "Space Ace" and "Dragon's Lair" spring first to mind, but there were tons of "looks great, plays bad" games on the Amiga as well - and on the CBM64, even though the "graphics candy" bar were a bit lower.
The worst period of "eye candy" was probably when the CD-ROM was introduced... e.g. "the 7th guest"
Parent
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As a retro gamer... (Score:5, Interesting)
I have a few tips for anyone trying to revive an old game. First and foremost, don't screw up the controls. Don't try to recreate robotron for example on a console with only 1 directional control (gameboy sp, i'm looking at you)
Also, rather than a old version and a new souped-up version of an old game, I'd rather see 1 game that starts out looking like the old one, but with 100 little options that would allow you to customize the game. Extra visual enhancements would be great, like tempest on the jaguar, but make them optional. And what about more options? Xevious with 50 solvalous would be nice for example. Or speed ups/slow downs. Or new levels for an old game. New weapons. Be creative. Provide more options. Don't just churn out crap and hope to milk us old guys.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Some of us old guys like getting milked ..
How else do you explain cable TV and marriage?
Does it matter anymore (Score:3, Insightful)
But the question remains, how do you decided[sic] what games will still appeal to the current gaming audience?
I would guess the same way you'd do any market research. Come up with ideas, run them past your target market, have them fill out surveys and see which ones are most likely to be well received.
The whole "resurrecting an old game" idea is really nothing but marketing anyways. Old games ran on 6502s or 68000s. Today's processors are orders of magnitude better. The only thing these new games have in common with their old counterparts is the name. And since that's the case, it's not really a special case. Only thing you'll most likely get is a slight marketing boost from people seeing a familiar name.
So I'd have to say "nothing unusual".
I just want the X-Wing Trilogy back! (Score:2)
I haven't used Windows for anything but office stuff for quite a long time. I use Linux and some Mac OS most of the time. But I would LOVE to be able to play the X-Wing games again... such fond memories. And now I'm older and can afford to spend money on it instead of just copying it from somewhere. So yeah, I would actually buy it this time. I remember pre-broadband-internet days when I bought a second phone line just so I could play games like that and Doom and stuff with my brother across town. Tho
Re:I just want the X-Wing Trilogy back! (Score:4, Insightful)
This is definitely a game series that should be done again with modern graphics, AI, online play, team play, etc. Just as long as it stays a "simulator" type game instead of the video gamey stuff they've made recently.
Parent
Make the interface not suck (Score:2)
That's basically the story behind the 'two D-pad scrolling method', level select, 'shoulder pause', 'frame advance' and zoom features in Lemmings DS [mrdictionary.net].
Make it so that people can focus on the game rather than battling against the keyboard for what they need to d
Please, bring back Ultima!! (Score:2)
I would LOVE remastered versions of Ultima IV-VI in DS form.. I think they would be perfect for it.
Desert Bus (Score:5, Funny)
We need Desert Bus resurrected. Only this time, in full 3D, rendering the entire trip at once, requiring a ton of RAM and video power in addition to six hours of time for the trip from Tuscon to Vegas.
Plus a more photorealistic bug splattering on the windshield after five hours.
Am I the only one.... (Score:3, Funny)
How about hanging them on a cross? (Score:5, Funny)
I have heard somewhere that it might result in resurrection a few days later. Not tried is myself though.... but there is this old indian graveyard too.
Chrono Trigger DS (Score:4, Insightful)
Releasing games is a great strategy. A) The legwork is done. B) You can shine it up. C) Customers who missed it the first time get another crack at it.
This works very well for games that were great for a reason. Chrono Trigger DS is my current fav. game. I never got to play it on the SNES, but the DS version is simply awesome... even if the graphics are pretty old school.
Likewise, Super Mario World DS, while not truly a remake, shows how the old formula can easily work in the modern generation.
I've also enjoyed Final Fantasy games on the DS. Stuff I never got to play on the NES because RPG's never appealed to me then.
Should companies do it? Yeah. For what games? Games that were obviously good for a reason. Final Fantasy 7 comes to mind. They could completely remake the game with higher quality graphics and cut-screens (using the models from the movies) and I'm sure it'd sell like hotcakes on all the systems... if they didn't have a lock-in with Sony.
Needless to say, I've benefited greatly from being able to play timeless classics again, for the first time. =P
Anyone else want a network enabled version of... (Score:5, Insightful)
M.U.L.E.?
Considering how often it was called a revolutionary game, it's surprising that there's only been a couple remakes, with none of them working on modern hardware and internet aware. :-(
All I know is... (Score:4, Interesting)
I really really really miss the Desert/Jungle/Nuclear/Whatever Strike series of games.
Why oh why has there been nothing even remotely similar in years! It's the type of game you could pick up and play without having to commit hours and hours, it was great for some quick, fun action, but the series seems to have been completely dropped.
I'd love for a company remake anything even remotely similar. I'd guess there's a lot of old classics like these out there just gagging to be remade.
I don't think there's a shortage of classics that could be remade that don't even have to be faithful to the originals, just something similar as in this example. The real problem seems to be that gaming has converged onto a few very tight specific genres- RTS, RPG, FPS and Sport and hardly anyone dares venture even slightly outside the defined rules for creating a game within these boundaries.
Maybe gamers like me, who would like something like the Desert strike series games put into a rather nice modern form are just too much of a niche market to bother with.
Old games with new graphics is what I want (Score:4, Interesting)
Picture the Mushroomy Kingdom level from the new Smash Brothers Brawl as the graphics for the actual game play of the original Super Mario Brothers. Same exact game, still 2D, same controls, but re-done with awesome new graphics. That is the one retro area that I think has been completely unexplored.
No need to make things 3D or mess up the controls, but games like Mega Man 9 could have taken more advantage of newer graphics while still keeping the old-school feel to it.
Re:My favorites (Score:5, Informative)
Contra 4 came out for the DS a while back. It's very much like Contra 1 (which you can unlock). I thought they did a pretty good job with it. It's a little short, but there's a lot of mini games and mutliple difficulty levels.... and achievments......
Here's a link to the wiki page on it: Contra 4 [wikipedia.org]
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
Bionic Commando: re-armed is the best example because everybody remembers B.C. fondly but nobody's seen anything of it since the original NES days.
A 2.5-D remixed remake of the original Castlevania wouldn't be nearly as popular because the market is already saturated with Castlevanias and Mega-mans and(to a lesser extent) Striders and Metal Gears. Hey, publishers. Try remaking and milking these obscure NES pick hits:
Re:Working my third shift (Score:5, Funny)
Yet you still find time to post on ol' Slashdot.
You're right, that is a bad analogy.
Parent
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Who has time for games?
I do! I'm rich as hell! Suck it!
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Because ultimately the state will finance their survival, and it's a good reproduction strategy for your genes.
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The original was a minigame in Project Gotham. Soo... I don't think that really counts.
Sorry. :-)
FWIW, the game is meant to evoke a sense of classic vector games like Gravitar, Asteroids, Tempest, and Star Wars. In that it succeeds brilliantly. But the game is very much a modern game with modern gameplay. Which is actually a good thing, because it shows what happens when game designers apply all their modern knowledge toward pick-up-and-play games. (Often of the "arcade" variety.)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)