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Scammers Continue to Wreak Havoc in MMO's
Posted by
CmdrTaco
on Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:54 AM
from the but-i-need-my-virtual-gold dept.
from the but-i-need-my-virtual-gold dept.
eldavojohn writes "We're all well aware of the scams that sometimes happen in online games like Eve Online. But despite this looking primarily like a problem with Eve Online, the MIT Technology Review brings us stories from Second Life and the very real $700,000 (USD) in Linden Dollars that has recently disappeared in what is appearing to be a classic ponzi scheme by a company named Ginko Banking. Unbelievably high interest rates coupled with some shady withdrawal limits leads to classic epic losses to investors. Eve Online was merely virtual currency but Second Life has a real monetary value associated with Linden Dollars & therefore is certain to see more and more scams pop up like this. How can Linden Labs set up a safety net to catch things like this?"
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Labyrinthine 'EVE Online' Scam Recounted 51 comments
Thanks to Terra Nova for its post discussing "a lengthy, but intensely fascinating and well-written account of an EVE Online [PC MMO] player who brokered a large investment scam by creating a puppet corporation." Terra Nova mentions that the account's nefarious author "does an incredible job of explaining the complexity of MMORPG worlds, the emotional salience of interactions, and how play transforms into work", concluding: "It's a lot of reading, but it's well worth it."
[+]
The Deadly Dollar of Eve Online 64 comments
The Escapist this week talks griefing and griefers. One of their features delves into the down and dirty economic wars in Eve Online. From the article: "Having transferred the money and placed their trust in these virtual business proposals, the investors realized that they had been duped, but could do nothing to rescue their lost capital. The scam tolled 480 million ISK (EVE's currency), which is almost $1,000 in meatspace money."
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EVE Online Rocked by 700 Billon ISK Scam 154 comments
Martin Spamer writes "The space MMOG EVE Online, where mining rock plays a big part of the economy, has recently been hit by a huge in-game scam. The aftermath of the EIB scam... was 700 Billion ISK, which might raise some $119,000 USD if sold on Ebay. (The current conversion rate is 100M ISK to 18 USD.) These events have prompted claims of player deaths, death threats, and speculation about What Would You Do With 700 Billion ISK?"
[+]
Yet Another EVE Online Scandal? 259 comments
Ariastis writes "An open letter, posted by former EVE Players, levels some new and serious accusations against CCP, the makers of the EVE Online MMOG. In the letter, chat logs & event timelines, along with description of in-game events from CCP-Approved reporting users, describe how most of the big role-playing events are rigged to favor specific alliances & players by CCP. More disturbingly, these users also appear to have CCP employees 'on call', ready to step in on behalf of the favoured players and alliances within the game. CCP reaction is member-only, but a forum thread has been left open to discuss about it." It should be pointed out at the moment all of the evidence put forward is circumstantial; take with a grain of salt. The issue of corruption in EVE was addressed in our interview with Magnus Bergsson at GDC.
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They shouldn't (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:They shouldn't (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:They shouldn't (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:They shouldn't (Score:5, Interesting)
The guy hadn't even tried to do a basic reality check. There are a lot of people in the US who would be caught up in a scheme like that if the situation were right. Is he culpable for taking a package shipped to him and shipping it out again on his own dime, trying to help someone? Now we're sort of full circle. Do we nail this guy for what is essentially a crime of being ignorant or trusting? Do we try to educate him? His face just went blank when he learned the truth. He didn't know all this internet stuff. Just that wendy lied about loving him. How could we best prevent him from falling for a similar scam in the future?
In the end, there has to be some effort to be informed and realistic about online transactions on a personal level. Those that can't be, should in all seriousness avoid online transactions. This is no different that investing. If you're uneducated, you really shouldn't go investing large amounts of money.
There will always be scams that slip through the cracks. There will always be people who fall for them.
Parent
Re:They shouldn't (Score:5, Interesting)
They rarely do. I live in a relatively poor country, and all the time I see tourists come here and "fall in love" with a local girl. They buy furniture, rent an apartment for her, and when they go back home they keep sending money. In the mean time her real boyfriend has moved into the apartment with her and sleeping in the bed that he bought.
Once just by chance I happened to be talking to one of these tourist "boyfriends," and told him what was happening. What a mistake. Not only did he not believe me, he actually threatened me for "telling these vicious lies."
When the illusion is sufficiently compelling the desire to believe trumps rational thought.
Parent
Re:They shouldn't (Score:4, Insightful)
What's his incentive?
There are two options. His fantasy is real, or his fantasy is not real. As long as he doesn't know his fantasy isn't real, it's real to him.
What if, for a few thousand dollars, you could believe you had a hot girlfriend who loved you, but the only catch is you have to trust that it's true? You or I may not like this idea, but there are many many people out there who would.
If you don't believe such people exist, just stop by a church on Sunday.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
People do this all the time, it's called "900 numbers".
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
That'd be nice and all... But in 1st life, people are losing homes for being caught up in schemes, not being "smart" about their purchases, etc. and real action is being taken to punish those who defrauded such "rubes". For some reason or other the Gov't and people in general frown on swindling.
They are losing homes that they can't afford, never could afford, and never should have bought.
Now, losing a home is sad and all, and the lenders are scum, villains and crooks who should be punished, but I find it ha
Re:They shouldn't (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm all for personal accountability, but I have a hard time coming behind someone who made poor choices and ripping them a new one for doing something they never could have known they shouldn't do. They are kind like a special classification of victim, lets call it Aggravated assault vs. Plain old Assault. INAL, so don't kill me if my example isn't as e
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
I think you might be confusing libertarian and liberal. Libertarian's and more along the line of "You got scammed? Haha. Noob. I guess you'll pay more attention next time, won't you." Conversely liberals tend to want to regulate everything (including your money) to make the world "fair".
Re:They shouldn't (Score:4, Funny)
Gov't has a monopoly on swindling and can't afford the competition.
Parent
Re:They shouldn't (Score:5, Insightful)
Hahaha. Aside from some cases of fraud, the majority of these cases are people who normally wouldn't qualify for a regular mortgage, and were offered a subprime mortgage at a higher rate, which allowed them to purchase a home. Some of these people bought a lot more than they could afford, and the homeowners are losing their homes as a result (incidentally, the lenders also lose money in foreclosure).
By comparison, if a bank uses reasonable, impartial criteria (like having a verifiable job, income, down payment & assets) before issuing a mortgage, then civil rights activists would be threatening to sue, saying that the lender is discriminating against minorities.
Yes, it's very sad that these people lose their homes, but they bought much more than they could afford. Back when I wasn't making very much money during the high-tech bust of 2000, I drove a beat-up Honda Civic. No one would sympathize with me if I had bought a big BMW and couldn't keep up with the payments.
Live within your means, and read before you sign anything.
Parent
Re:They shouldn't (Score:5, Insightful)
--Thomas Tusser
Parent
Re:They shouldn't (Score:4, Funny)
--Linden Labs CEO
Parent
Re:They shouldn't (Score:5, Insightful)
If we treat this as a moral or ethical issue, we can reasonably argue that we should let people learn, the hard way, how to be responsible for their own finances, especially in an environment where the actual exposure is relatively minimal (the person they covered lost $144 in this scam, and she apparently made all that money by doing things she liked doing on Second Life anyway -- we're not talking about not being able to pay rent here).
But it's not a moral or ethical issue -- it's a commercial issue. If Linden Labs wants to encourage people to treat Lindenbucks as real money -- and clearly, they do because otherwise they wouldn't set up an exchange rate to the real deal -- then they've got to deal with what is essentially a threat to their profitability. If they don't set up a system where it's safe to exchange money for other tangible goods (and stocks or CDs are tangible), then, in fact, people will learn to protect themselves -- by not transacting with their money and essentially putting their virtual dollars under their virtual mattresses. This is not an outcome that is ideal for Linden Labs -- which is why, regardless of ethics, morality, or "think about the children (or stupid people)!", they should do something to create some sort of reliable, authenticated commerce system that allows for these activities -- out of sheer self interest.
Parent
Re:They shouldn't (Score:4, Informative)
" Before the Wall Street Crash of 1929, there was little regulation of securities in the United States at the Federal level." [wikipedia.org], banking also has strict regulation. Now we find that, ('surprise') tight(er) controls on Investing/Banking in the virtual world is also needed. However, thanks to the 'containerized' nature of these virtual economies, I believe that federal regulation is not needed. Instead these communities need to consider getting some real professional advice before allowing this sort of activity. Not merely checking to see compliance with the appropriate laws, but using their experience and insights to create 'internal' regulation and a quick response to new threats. I would suggest that they actively pursue programmers from regulated field as well as legal staff.
To survive, virtual economies like real ones, need to have the people's confidence.
Parent
Re:They shouldn't (Score:5, Insightful)
I mean, if they deserved that money, they'd be strong enough to still have it, right?
If the smart should be allowed to scam the stupid, why shouldn't the strong be allowed to steal from the the weak?
Parent
EVE Online is a different monster (Score:2)
It's amazing how often people fall for it.
Some are as simple as:
Hey, I'd like to join your corp
Really? what ship do you a fly
a
you have to give it to the corp, contract it to me and we'll let you join.
OK
Sucka!
and there is nothing the person who was just dumb enough to give a ship to someone recourse wise, as designed.
Now you scam a character, and you have a paper trail, they'll reverse it, but pretty much anything is fair game.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
That game attracts more pricks than a porcupine petting zoo.
Re:EVE Online is a different monster (Score:5, Insightful)
Compared to the endless grind of City of Heroes or World of Warcraft... well, finding a way to deal with scammers in Eve is what makes it the only MMO worth playing.
Parent
So maybe you are a prick? (Score:3, Informative)
If Linden Labs wants a virtual world (Score:2)
This would also mean they will have to start to charge virtual income tax and other taxes as well if they don't already to pay for those services;-))
Re: (Score:2)
Virtual NSA, virtual FBI (Score:5, Informative)
Already happening. From a Linden Labs press release: The company also introduced algorithms that identify suspicious activity...
A virtual world is a total surveillance society. Everything can be logged. More than that, what you do there can be analyzed automatically.
Big Brother is watching. Big Brother is always watching.
Parent
One really obvious way (Score:4, Insightful)
One more point: How can the makers of this game do this without running afoul of the banking regulations of various nations, especially if you can buy/sell Linden dollars directly from the company itself?
Re:One really obvious way (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Prevent stupidity? (Score:2)
As soon as they figure that one out, they can patent it and start selling the technology to Microsoft to use for their customers.
Legality in Second Life (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Wait, wait, wait... (Score:4, Insightful)
Again? (Score:2)
ugh.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:ugh.. (Score:5, Insightful)
If no one had, I was going to.. instead I'll throw my support behind your comment as much as I can with no mod points.
Second Life is just.. just fucking terrible. I've seen articles about second life in all SORTS of publications, because the writers play.. and the funniest one was in a business mag, geared towards management (i can only assume middle.. blegh). Talked about all sorts of buzzwords, bunch of bullshit, you get to the end of the article and the writer included a shot of his in-game character, how nice.
With a tiger's head.
The shit you're forced to read when you're not-working at work and already read the 4-day old newpaper..
Parent
RuneScape vs. Real-world Trading (Score:3, Interesting)
http://www.runescape.com/kbase/view.ws?guid=diary06 [runescape.com]
Excerpts:
The majority of bots that we ban from members have been paid for with stolen credit card numbers.
Such accounts don't earn us money, they cost us money in bank refund charges.
During 2006, we banned bot and real-world trader accounts carrying RuneScape gold and items worth over 200 billion gp. During 2007, so far, we've banned over 525 billion, which has a real-world value of over $2.6 million US - that's an increase of over 250%.
If it is too good to be true... (Score:5, Insightful)
Parallels to real-world economies, anyone? (Score:4, Interesting)
--
Our microcontroller kit. Your gcc compiler. Learn digital electronics. [nerdkits.com]
It's not a problem, it's a feature (Score:5, Insightful)
(emphasis mine)
Uhmmmm, hello?
Eve Online is specifically designed to have a player-driven economy and market. As in real life, it is possible to scam people in such a market. This is not just allowed in Eve online, it has in fact been close to actively encouraged (as in, people have asked devs/GM's whether it's ok to do certain things, and got a reply that amounts to "if it's not obviously prohibited by the EULA, go right ahead". It has made for some nice stories as well, some people may remember the story about the Eve Intergalactic Bank [slashdot.org] piramid scam.
The devs consider this kind of thing to be exactly as intended and have even stated so in public forums. So yes, it's a harsh game. It is actually possible to lose the work of several months in a matter of minutes.
Of course, there are still rules/an EULA, for example it's not OK to phish for account details, to sell or buy in-game money for real-world money, etc. However, if you manage to convince hundreds of people that they should invest in your piramid scheme, you should absolutely go right ahead.
Stupid should hurt (Score:3, Interesting)
Basically, as many have said there and elsewhere, when you participate in one of these "banks", you give your money to someone. That's how LL sees it. You are GIVING your money to someone. Whether they give it back or not, let alone pay you any extra for the privilege, is gratis, and they have no intention of doing anything about it if the owner of bank X up and disappears with the money. ANYone can set up ATM machines anywhere and do what Ginko did. Well, they can't any more, as people have already been burned and are wary, but there are still many naive people out there who will blithely go up to an ATM, see flowery words and fabulous interest rates, and deposit every L$ in their account, never suspecting that it isn't a "real" bank.
Yes, it is only "virtual money". Any real world value it holds is subject to change at any time. Most cases, it isn't a lot of money that is lost in these scams. It's an expensive lesson to learn, but it is far from life-breaking for anyone.
What is kind of telling is that LL does stop pyramid schemes and other such money scams, but does nothing to stop Ponzi schemes, like Ginko's (not-so-affectionately called the "Porto-Ponzi" in the SL forums). Ponzi schemes are a variation on pyramid schemes and, if one is regulated, the other should be as well. It is left as an exercise to the reader why LL can't seem to fathom this concept and put an end to SL "banks".
In the end, though, it is and should remain caveat emptor. In some ways, I think it is a good training ground for RL. The money involved is often nothing more than discretionary income for most folks, so losing it shouldn't hurt any more than losing it in a poker game. There's more than enough wisdom out there for people to obtain and investigate before giving their money to anyone. Whether they choose to ignore it falls squarely on their shoulders and no one else's.
No sympathy for Eve Online scam victims (Score:3, Interesting)
That said, I'm all for IN GAME solutions to the problems like having scammers arrested or have bounties on their heads or something, but there's no need to take it to RL and make it a legal issue.
-matthew
Scams are simply.... (Score:4, Insightful)
It's financial Darwinism. And, as mentioned many times, the best cons take advantage of someone who "THINKS" that they are scamming someone else, to get something for nothing.
If you are SO gullible, that you think the widow of a Nigerian minister will out of the blue contact you to help claim $millions in aid money, then you, sir or madam, are a dumbass. I don't care if you're a blue-haired granny who makes wonderful cookies for your grandchildren and always is willing to help someone down on their luck.
Dumbass doesn't mean "bad", it just means stupid. And you can't legislate against stupidity. You can apparently ELECT it, but you can't legislate against it.
The moral of this of course, is that if granny gets taken to the cleaners, then perhaps her family shouldn't have let granny so loose on the financial leash, should they? And the upshot of that? Pay attention to the people you care about. Be interested in them and their lives, in what they're doing. If they're going off the rails and you care about them, get involved.
This problem has already been solved (Score:3, Informative)
Given that all monetary transactions go through a single transaction system. Those transactions can be monitored by a set of fraud rules. I'll use EVE as an example, since I play the game. Rules would be like:
- Player donations into an account of X ISK over Y hours exceeds Z
(probably hacked accounts feeding a central account)
- Player donations out of account of X ISK to more than Y different players
(probably an ISK-seller)
- Player donations into an account from more than X players over Y hours
(could be ponzi schemes)
Each scam that comes up will have a pattern in monetary transactions that can be flagged using these rules. once an account is flagged, a security representative can review the specifics of the account and determine if it is potentiall fraud, and perhaps suspend the account.
Human interaction is critical here, because the rules are not perfect. For example, the last rule would trigger for most EVE-Radio DJs that run lottos during their on-air time. A perfectly legitimate concept. That where the addition of a white list becomes useful.
A few hours or days with an "expert" who works for a major bank would help curb these issue somewhat. The bad news is, these systems only work when installed in the core of the transaction system. Only LL/CCP can solve this problem, and they have to WANT to solve it.
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Re:It's a game (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:It's a game (Score:5, Funny)
People have to watch out for this in real life, they should watch out for it in second life
The scammers are obviously better players
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
People will also not improve just because you think you're better than they are.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I totally disagree with that viewpoint. Do you have any reference material (books, essays) to support that viewpoint?
I have no reference material to support my viewpoint, but having read your comment i am inclined to research this.
My viewpoint is that civilization is a side effect of selfishness. I want to be fitter, stronger, faster. I can be more successful if i cooperate with other people. I can be even more succ
Re:something similar in World of Warcraft.... (Score:4, Interesting)
Parent