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Gates May Announce Xbox 360 DVR At CES

Posted by Zonk on Wed Jan 02, 2008 03:31 PM
from the red-ring-of-content dept.
XBox (Games) Media Television Technology
Via Kotaku, an article at the Seattle Times offers an interesting theory on what might be an important part of Bill Gates' keynote at CES next week. According to Times writer Brier Dudley, upgrades and licensing for the Xbox 360 could be a big new feather in Microsoft's cap: "I've speculated on my blog that Microsoft may be preparing to license the Xbox gaming platform to consumer-electronics companies. In particular, Microsoft could work with Toshiba to develop a digital video recorder with a hard-drive, high-definition HD-DVD drive and Xbox gaming capabilities. They're already allied against Sony and other backers of the Blu-ray DVD format, and Toshiba could help Xbox finally penetrate the Japanese market." Toshiba has repeatedly denied the possibility of a 360 unit with a built-in HD-DVD drive, it should be noted.
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Sunday evening saw the final CES keynote delivered by Bill Gates in his current role with the Microsoft corporation. Speculation about big announcements generally seemed to be for naught, as his last address at the show focused more on broad concepts than blockbuster news. "Gates outlined three major themes for the second digital decade-high definition displays with 3D experiences and high quality video and audio, connected services and the power of natural interfaces. Gates had a vision early of those themes, but his quest to make the Tablet PC, Media Center PCs and natural interfaces, such as speech and touch, more mainstream has not been realized." A full description of the talk, including his Guitar Hero finale with Slash, is available in Engadget's liveblog of the event.
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  • If it is true and Microsoft can get good integration with the Zune then it could be a big winner.
    Hack I may even get one if they can get it is HD and will work well with Comcast.
    • If you turn a 360 into a DVR, it makes you have to choose whether to use that HD space on illegal game copies or time shifted video content (or at a minimum on XBox360 HD's).....I say it's a big win for MS because it will increase the dollars they get from game sales or HD sales.

      Layne
      • Ease of use. DVRs are about 100 times easier to use than a DVD/VCR. Not easy to use as in I can't figure out how to do it but easy to use in that it only takes a few seconds to set a show to record.
        If Microsoft does it well and intergrates it with the Zune then it could be very cool. You can already use the 360 as a media extender so why not use it to sync your Zune and put videos of your favorite shows on the Zune or your PC so you can watch them later?
        How about letting you use your Zune as a wireless medi

        • If Microsoft does it well and intergrates it with the Zune then it could be very cool.
          Apart from all the proprietary vendor lock-in bollocks, yeh it's a good idea. But will it be compatible with $FAVOURITE_PMP?

  • Makes a scary amount of sense... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Junta (36770) on Wednesday January 02 2008, @03:39PM (#21886648)
    If MS wants to continue their business the way they always have, the xbox and xbox360 may have been part product, and part proof-of-concept to try to sell a sort of gaming-system platform, ala the Windows OS for desktop.

    If Toshiba and others decided to make consumer electronics devices that happened to be 'xbox 360' compliant, or whatever the platform specification of the time happens to be, MS may decide to maintain merely the core platform specification, client software stack, and the server infrastructure of xbox live, without producing many units of their hardware implementation of the platform they dictate.

    Of course, they run the *high* risk of doing so of defeating the whole point of consoles, that every console is the same hardware with the same features so game developers don't have to worry about the complexity of the user having a varying amount of central processor/graphics horsepower/memory/different optical drives. If HD-DVD got integrated and supported as a platform for games to be published on, that would walk the 360 down the path of the computer in terms of having to read 'requirements' on the box before purchase, and licensing could lead to a mess if they aren't careful on all the various components.
    • What about something like the Expansion Pak [wikipedia.org] for the Nintendo 64? There were quite a few games that took advantage of its benefits without being absolutely necessary for gameplay... would a direction like that be possible & adviseable for HD gameplay?
      • The expansion pak was one of a few possible variations between N64 systems. Others include memory and rumble paks. How many of those variations made it to the GC? Aaaaand, how many then continued to the Wii?

        would a direction like that be possible & adviseable for HD gameplay?

        I'm not sure that answers your question or not, but Nintendo's direction is very clear.

        I think console add-ons should generally be kept to a minimum and restricted to specific domains of games. Some add-ons have good reasons for being optional right from the beginning, extra controllers and headsets

  • Make it Quieter (Score:5, Interesting)

    by kannibal_klown (531544) on Wednesday January 02 2008, @03:40PM (#21886652)
    Between a nice sale and gift card I bought the 360 HD-DVD addon for a song. An HD-DVD player for (practically) free that didn't take up an extra set of Component inputs, how could I loose? Plus I could now watch Heroes season 1 on HD-DVD (I missed all of the first season on TV).

    Unfortunately it didn't take me too long to realize that my 360 is just too flippin' loud to enjoy movies. It's one thing if I'm gaming, but if I'm watching an old classic I'd rather not heard the buzzing of those fans. Since I was already jazzed to get Heroes I decided to return the unit and get the cheap Toshiba HD-A2 for a small price instead.

    If they want to seriously consider doing this, they need to engineer the unit so it's a lot quieter or perhaps makes sure it doesn't get so loud with age.
    • Playing games, my 360 sounds like a bat out of hell. Playing DVD's, it's near silent because all the CPU/GPU fans aren't going into overdrive. I have no idea what kinda toll the HD-DVD drive takes on the system, but I hope you are in the minority on this one.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by p0tat03 (985078)
      It's not the fans. It's the damned DVD drive. You would think after making an excellent DVD drive (certainly superior to the rickety piece of crap in the PS2) for the Xbox, they'd do the same for the 360. Nooooooo. The machine itself is whisper quiet (while playikng XBLA games, for example), but once you let that disc spin up, boy, I'd rather be riding in a F-18, bet that's quieter.
      • My old (first-gen) unit was extremely loud, like you are describing. It died before the big warranty extension, so I got an Elite to replace it and that is pretty quiet - about on par with a small PC, even with the disc spinning.

        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by mingot (665080)
          You do realize that even though it died before the extension it IS covered now, right? Send that sucker in to get it fixed and make a few bucks on ebay.

      • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

        by valathax (916966)
        There was a firmware update about a year ago that fixed the load fan and drive noise issue when playing movies.

        If you don't have proper ventilation for the x360 it will scream like a banshee after just a few minutes. A friend of mine stores his in an enclosed entertainment unit and it is extremely load.

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by iainl (136759)
        Did you leave a game in the main DVD drive? There's some really stupid code in the HD-DVD player that causes the DVD to spin up if there's a disc left in there, and it's this that causes most of the noise on my system. As long as I take any disc out then playing a HD-DVD from the other drive is fine on mine. It's still a louder than an A2, mind you, so you're still a bit better off with your new setup.
  • Let someone else lose money selling XBox consoles, so MS can make money licensing the hardware and the games, and game publishers can make money selling the games themselves. So, who in the world would get on board to do this? The only way to turn a profit on the console alone would be horrendous quality.

  • If only... (Score:4, Informative)

    by flitty (981864) on Wednesday January 02 2008, @03:48PM (#21886752)
    It won't be built in. The public image of ANOTHER version of the xbox that is more expensive than the ps3 is too damaging to the brand, even if it has new features. They wouldn't release an 360 at the current price point with the DVR built in, WAY too many upset early adopters who would be RROD their xbox on purpose.

    The only way MS could do this successfully is by upgrading the HD-DVD player, keeping it at the current price point, but adding DVR functionality to the thing, even if it makes the player a little thicker for the hard drive. An "HD upgrade kit" if you will. Then get rid of the old version of the HDDVD player at fire sale prices. That way, the minority of xbox owners that bought the HDDVD players would be the only consumer base that would feel upset, but keeping the price the same would be understandable since the add-on has been around for a while, and it's sales are definately slumping.
    • what if you only want the DVR capability, would you necessary spend the extra on the HD-DVD player... dunno about you but I don't plan on going to HD discs for as long as I can (if ever, i don't wanna re-buy my 100+ dvds)

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by Erwos (553607)
      Here's my theory: Microsoft understands what a huge screw-up the CableCard initiative has been on the Media Center side. They're going to go ahead and get the 360 certified by CableLabs, and then allow you to buy CableCard tuners, like the existing ATI OCUR and the upcoming BCOR (which would allow for PPV). They'll then allow you to use this as an external tuner for a single Media Center box, kind of like how the HDHomeRun currently works. This allows them to bypass the system-level DRM and certification re

  • Media Companies??? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by gstoddart (321705) on Wednesday January 02 2008, @03:55PM (#21886844) Homepage
    How will the media companies respond to this? I thought they were already fighting the idea of DVRs, or at least trying to get them to prevent commercial skipping?

    Surely the media companies won't want Microsoft to allow this to happen in any form the consumer might actually want? And I'm sure anyone affiliated with Sony won't like the HD-DVD format at all.

    Admittedly, if anyone has the clout to try it's Microsoft, but I'm still skeptical this would take off.

    Cheers
    • I doubt if MS is coming up with this things won't be DRMed to the core and prehaps prevent commercial skipping.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Have Blue (616)
      Remember that the 360 is a closed system. Anything Microsoft decides to put in for the benefit of the media companies, you won't be able to get rid of.

  • What does this mean for console development? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Asmor (775910) on Wednesday January 02 2008, @03:56PM (#21886852) Homepage
    Consoles have always had one major advantage over PCs as a gaming platform: consistent hardware. An Xbox is an Xbox is an Xbox. When producing a game for a console, you don't need to test every possible combination of a dozen video cards, a dozen processors, a dozen motherboards, etc. You test it on an Xbox. It works on your Xbox? It works on your customer's Xbox.

    I'm worried about the possibility of fragmentation that may occur here, if other companies are allowed to make their own Xboxes. Even if there are a set of standards, there's nothing stopping them from skimping on parts, or even using slightly different architectures which throw the whole thing out of whack.
    • The Panasonic Q. It was a Nintendo Game Cube with DVD player functionality added. But the game-playing guts were exactly the same as a regular Game Cube so it didn't interfere with game development.

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by G Fab (1142219)
        Also, Sony made the PSX, which is a playstation 2+DVR media center. Had the first XMB system, too.

        It was a huge flop, but this might not be. If I were to buy another XBOX, I would avoid a Microsoft built one if other manufacturers were known to make these in a more reliable form.

        Thing is, Isn't the PS3 able to be a DVR with a minor upgrade? I think Sony is just waiting on that to keep the Media companies in bed with Blu Ray, but this might push Sony to get that DVR attachment out faster.

        Also, if the XBOX

    • Re:What does this mean for console development? (Score:4, Informative)

      by Liquidrage (640463) on Wednesday January 02 2008, @04:56PM (#21887508)
      "Even if there are a set of standards, there's nothing stopping them from skimping on parts, or even using slightly different architectures which throw the whole thing out of whack."

      Sure there is. Microsoft. There's not a chance in hell MS would let anyone make another one that wasn't 100% compatible with the current ones. There's plenty of room (and common sense) for MS to allow others to make a 360 and to control the specs they are made to.
    • An Xbox is an Xbox is an Xbox.

      But is an Xbox 3D0 -- sorry, Xbox 360 -- likewise an Xbox 360?

      Some have hard drives; others do not. Some have HD-DVD drives attached; others do not. Some have HDMI ports and the necessary hardware to drive them; others do not.

      I would say that the fragmentation you are concerned about has already begun.
      • For gaming, the only thing that matters is whether a harddrive is available or not.
        MS are not allowing developers to use the HD DVD drive for games, and a HDMI port
        looks exactly like a VGA output to the hardware (same part of the console settings).

        Still wish they had harddrives with all models, though.
  • Gates could do all kinds of things at the CES... this really ain't any kind of news.

  • License The Platform == Console Market Exit (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    You've been hearing the rumors for most of the second half of 2007 - Microsoft is preparing to exit the console market.

    And now the reality is finally here.

    After two years Microsoft has failed to find a way to fix the 360 hardware failures with even the latest models still giving the infamous RRoD right out of the box for many people. After six years and now some 7 billion dollars with the 360 essentially selling to just the US market like the first Xbox Microsoft has had enough and are looking for other har
    • Why the AC post? +1 Interesting

      I'm not so sure the writing is on the wall, though. Much like they learned with DirectX (D3D specificly), Microsoft knows they can substantially influence the future development of other companies. They pretty much dictate an API and the graphics guys tailor their hardware to it (to be fair: along with extentions to OpenGL... but at least with those they control what device-specific parameters to use).

      I mean, you even have John Carmack commenting, "I especially like the work I [xbitlabs.com]
    • I've noticed that an argument that people frequently make is that the 360 is doing horrible in Japan but good in America...what I want to know is, what is so bad about this?

      Japanese gamers and American gamers are quite different insofar as what the "average" one enjoys...just look at the majority of games that come out over there compared to what comes out over here. Is it such a bad thing to have a console targeted towards our market? If anything, I would say that's a plus. Now, I'm one of the few that
      • The main that is so bad about that is that the American dollar is weak right now, and frankly will get weaker as we fight this war and our government cleverly exploits the weak dollar to cheapen the US debt load and increase our leverage against China.

        Every PS3 Sony sells in Europe of Japan means more profits relative to every PS3 sold in the US. Especially considering future game sales.

        You and I both prefer the 360. That's not to say that Sony might not be losing to Microsoft quite as badly as sheer numb
    • They're not going to cede the living room to Sony while the PS3's only selling point is being the cheapest Blu-ray player. They might start licensing the platform to third party manufacturers (Vista Console Edition?), but they will never abandon it. The future is not in PCs.

      • while the PS3's only selling point is being the cheapest Blu-ray player

        I beg your pardon... you obviously have no idea what games/features are available for the PS3 right now.
        Seriously, stop the "not enough games" BS, ok? We've already crossed the threshold into "have more great games available than time to play them", the more, the merrier.

        They might start licensing the platform to third party manufacturers

        Isn't this what the GP said??

        The future is not in PCs.

        True or not...
        Until Microsoft makes as much money as OS platform and office software sales from departments (when me shit turns purple and smells like rainbow sherbet), they will do everything in their pow

  • The windows vista based system with don't work that well and SDV channels don't work as well.
  • For the love of all that is holy: The XBox 360 does not need more expensive add on features!! Anyone who does not have the XBox 360 today isn't sitting on the fence thinking "If the XBox 360 was a even more expensive with features I didn't intend to use, I'd buy that!"

    Microsoft's own marketing positioned the XBox 360 as a video game console. Anything that adds onto the price tag that doesn't help with that is detrimental to their message. It certainly isn't help their product line to cost this much mon
    • I kind of disagree with you on a few points. First, "expensive add-on features". Let the xbox have as many add-ons as they want or is possible. You don't have to buy any of them. And as long as you're not limited to what you play because you didn't "add-on" this necessary piece I don't see a problem.

      Secondly, "If the XBox 360 was a even more expensive with features I didn't intend to use, I'd buy that!". there very well may be some people who are thinking, "If only the 360 had the hd-dvd built in, a
      • Well, that's the trick, 'eh? These add-ons will most certainly affect what games you can play. HD-DVD games? As companies realize they need to port 20 gb PS3 games? HDD? Already limits the field of 360s slightly.

        This can be handled to some extent, because everyone can add-on these features, but it can intimidate buyers. Looking around the accesories, the hard drive add-on, the wifi addon, the hi capacity optical add-on, it's expensive, and you don't know if you need it.

        IF the PS3 is $350 by the time t
  • Why did Microsoft have to start making things that I actually want and use ?
    Sheesh, if they can add Divx playback to the XBXO 360, anything is possible.

  • Wow (Score:4, Interesting)

    by obeythefist (719316) on Wednesday January 02 2008, @06:14PM (#21888396) Journal
    Just imagine, a cheap device that is "360 compatible". Plays any Xbox 360 game. Has any set of features any number of licensed OEMs would like to put in. HP could make one. Dell could make one. Panasonic could embed them in TVs.

    If the licensing outlay is cheap and competitive enough, it would kill Sony.

    It seems a bit far-fetched, though.

    • If the licensing outlay is cheap and competitive enough, it would kill Sony.

      Just like 3DO licensees Panasonic, Sanyo and Goldstar leveraged that common platform to kill their closest competitors: Philips CDi and Pioneer LaserActive!

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by grapeape (137008)
        Hmm Lets See...

        3DO:

        The most expensive console of its day (and probably of all time if adjusted for inflation)

        Poor game selection out of the gate and little support afterwards.

        Trip Hawking was too obsessed with making it a multimedia setup box rather than focusing on games.

        Advertising was nearly non-existent and focused on the wrong aspects.

        A horrible controller and only one controller port so controllers had to be daisy chained together.

        No real exclusives other than an early jump on Street Fighter 2 turbo.

        3

  • Not happening.. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by rtechie (244489) on Wednesday January 02 2008, @07:44PM (#21889322)
    This simply isn't happening.

    The rumor within MS is that Microsoft would announce another VERSION of the XBOX 360 with PVR capabilities and Cablecard support. It is my understanding that this hinged on getting at least one of the major cable companies (TimeWarner and Comcast) on board. This apparently did not happen. Therefore, there will be no 360 PVR.
  • Microsoft has been telling us that they're going to include IPTV and DVR functionality through a software upgrade for more than a year! This isn't news.

    I was more surprised that it wasn't part of the fall update (since they claimed it would be available by the end of 07) than a rumor that they might actually announce what's happened to it and why it was delayed (probably because of a lack of service providers).

    The technology is built. Microsoft desperately wants to sell more cable providers on microsoft's

    • [3DO] died, because it meant 3DO machines on shelves that cost a grand, and when introducing a console, it's customary to subsidize it somewhat.

      Couldn't a subsidy work here too, though? "If you want to sell Xbox 360 variants, we'll pay you $X per unit to offset some of your costs." Microsoft is "losing" the same amount per unit, whether they build it or someone else does, but presumably they'd see a return on game sales both ways.

      the Xbox360's media service competes with services like Comcast's On D

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by bigman2003 (671309)
      so they can destroy that just like they wrecked personal and business computing

      That comment is so wrong, it's incredible.

      If there is one single company that moved personal and business computing forward, it is Microsoft.

      Say what you want about their interface, their ethics, whatever...no company has done more to move businesses and individuals onto computers than Microsoft.

      The fact that 90% of the computers in the world run Windows should tell you something about their influence.
        • The monopoly/homogenous position that Microsoft held was necessary for computing to move forward.

          The days of wondering which platform to use were gone. No more CP/M vs. Apple arguments. You could buy a Windows computer, and know that the software you purchased would run on it.

          This is what allowed shrink-wrapped software to explode into a huge industry. If you remember going into a computer store in the 90's, the Windows software section was enormous. The Mac section was tiny- and there was nothing else.
          • Sorry to venture off topic,

            But your argument sounds like the proverbial "if your only tool is a hammer" mentality of "business" computing. Microsoft is convicted of abusing monopoly power to push out competition. They didn't bring anything to the masses, they crushed their rivals so it seemed like there _was_ no alternative. And they were convicted of it, too.

            We should really tell all those Apple Macintosh users that wondering which platform to use is gone the way of CP/M. Or perhaps all the Linux users
    • What has Microsoft licensed successfully? WMA licensing was somewhat successful although Apple still dominates DRMed audio file formats.

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