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D&D 4th Edition Details Released

Posted by ScuttleMonkey on Sat Mar 01, 2008 06:33 AM
from the orc-the-other-white-meat dept.
Role Playing (Games) Entertainment Games
Wired is reporting that some juicy details of Wizards of the Coast's new 4th edition for Dungeons and Dragons are being leaked on to the web from the D&D Experience in Arlington, VA this week. "Wizards of the Coast, the current custodians of the D&D universe, have been talking about the upcoming fourth edition of the game for months, but they've been fairly cagey about hard details, preferring to tell us more about how elves love footraces than how much damage a fireball does. They're running actual 4e games at D&D Experience, though, and thanks to people with scanners, you can too!"
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[+] Dungeons & Dragons 4th Edition Announced 463 comments
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[+] More Details on Dungeons and Dragons Fourth Edition 45 comments
Gamespy had a chat with Chris Perkins, story manager for Dungeons and Dragons R&D, at this year's Gen Con. Though Chris had no more details to offer Gamespy than he did for us at the event, the piece puts a lot of information all into one place on what we can expect from D&D Fourth Edition. "GameSpy: We've been reading a lot about talent trees in 4th Edition ... Christopher Perkins: Talent trees aren't unique to MMORPGs. Wizards has produced other games that use talent trees, such as the d20 Modern Roleplaying Game and the Star Wars Roleplaying Game Saga Edition. The theory of game design, regardless of platform, is constantly evolving. We've taken our gaming experiences over the past decade, as well as player feedback on the games and supplements we've produced in that time period, to build a system for character creation and advancement in 4th Edition that draws inspiration from numerous sources, but isn't exactly like anything that's been done before."
[+] Happy Worldwide D&D Game Day! 25 comments
The official Wizards of the Coast site notes that today is Worldwide Dungeons and Dragons Game Day. All day your Friendly Local Gaming Store will be running events using the D&D 3.5 rules, as well as skirmishes for Dungeons and Dragons minis. The official link there has downloadable character sheets if you want to go play, and the minis section of the site has rules and regs for the skirmish scenarios. The list of participating locations is available online ... so get rolling.
[+] Ask the Designers of D&D Fourth Edition 482 comments
This past August, big news dropped in the tabletop gaming community: 2008 would see the release of a fourth edition of Dungeons and Dragons. Since then the official D&D Insider site, and communities like the excellent ENWorld, have been doing their best to keep us up to date on the ins and outs of the newest way to dungeon-delve. With the release just five months away, we've been given a chance to put some questions to the team developing the game. One question per post, if you would, and we'll make sure to pass the best questions on to the designers. Don't forget to ask about the online version of the D&D tools as well! We'll get their answers back to you as soon as we get them, so fire away.
[+] The Dungeons and Dragons Fourth Edition Preview Books 378 comments
It's a big year for tabletop gamers. In just a few months the first books for the Fourth Edition of Dungeons and Dragons (D&D) will be released by publisher Wizards of the Coast (WotC). The last major update to the game rules was released in 1999, and sparked interest in D&D not seen since the early 80s. To attempt to answer some of the biggest questions about this newest edition, WotC has learned from mistakes made in 99', and is previewing their game updates with a pair of softcover books. Called "Races and Classes" and "Worlds and Monsters", the two titles cover everything from character creation to the new default world's pantheon. More importantly, it includes a large amount of commentary from the designers about why things are going to be as they are. In short: they're must-haves for hardcore D&D fans. Read on for my impressions of these highly entertaining (and vastly overpriced) chapbooks.
[+] The D&D Designers Answer Your Questions 211 comments
In January we had the chance to ask the designers of Dungeons and Dragons Fourth Edition a few questions about the new version of the classic tabletop game. The Wizards of the Coast Community Manager, Mike "Gamer_Zer0" Lescault put our questions to members of the development team, including: Andrew Collins, Chris Perkins, Scott Rouse, and Sara Girard. Some of the questions weren't quite answered in as much detail as I would have liked. That said, they've given us a great opportunity to follow up on their responses. If you have a follow-up question, put it in a comment below (one question per comment please). We'll pass on five of the best, and the designers will answer your question on-camera at the Dungeons and Dragons Experience at the end of this month. We'll post the video to the site early in March. This is a great chance to put a face to some legendary designer names, and get your unanswered issues resolved. Get asking.
[+] D&D's Story Manager Answers Your Questions on Camera 112 comments
Chris Perkins, story manager for the upcoming Fourth Edition of Dungeons and Dragons, took some time out this past weekend at the D&D Experience event to talk back to us. He answered the concerns of five readers who had commented on their responses to our earlier questions from January. With a large amount of information about Fourth Edition now out in the open and the NDA for playtesters lowered, there's been a floodgate of new concerns over the latest change to this tabletop icon. You might also be interested in the other videos from Gamer Radio Zero filmed at the D&D Experience event, which covers everything from DMG design to D&D Insider pricing. Chris's responses can be seen in the YouTube videos included below. Thanks both to Mr. Perkins and Michael Lescault for making this interaction possible.
[+] D&D 4th Edition Game System License Announced 131 comments
Wizards of the Coast has announced plans for a brand-new system license for the fourth edition of Dungeons and Dragons . As with the d20 STL for Third Edition, this is a royalty-free license that will allow third parties to publish products using the rules developed by WotC. The new system reference document will be made available early in June (just after the release of the new edition). That license only covers fantasy gaming, but a second license (the d20 GSL) will be released allowing for any type of gaming product to be developed. For analysis and follow-up on the announcement, the ENWorld boards have full details.
[+] Dungeons and Dragons 4th Edition Launches 159 comments
darkwing_bmf writes "Dungeons & Dragons 4th Edition rulebooks are now available. There's a review up at EuroGamer. Unfortunately, the online tools portion, D&D Insider, isn't ready yet."
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  • Well fuck (Score:5, Funny)

    by Lifyre (960576) on Saturday March 01 2008, @06:43AM (#22609226)
    I'm playing what amounts to a beta release of a pen and paper rpg... It's official. I will never get laid.

    • Re:Well fuck (Score:5, Funny)

      by imasu (1008081) on Saturday March 01 2008, @07:42AM (#22609354)
      Wait... just checking... are you blogging the experience too? Because that would be a hat trick. (A hat trick is a sports term from a game called hockey, played on ice by the guys that beat us up in high school, to save you from hitting Wikipedia)
      • I only heard of hat tricks in Football. I heard it's kinda like a Killing Spree in Unreal Tournament.
          • Thanks. Never heard of Walter Payton making a hat trick.

          • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

            by Altima(BoB) (602987)
            Except maybe Ireland, where Gaelic Football is just called Football and its English counterpart is called Soccer.

            And since they all stem from the same root game anyway, and are so named because they are played on foot rather than on horseback like Polo, it's a moot point.

      • Re:Well fuck (Score:5, Informative)

        by donscarletti (569232) on Saturday March 01 2008, @08:32AM (#22609460)
        A hat trick is a term from cricket referring to the rare instance of a bowler getting out three consecutive batsmen out on three consecutive balls. From there it spread to other sports (cricket was still widely played in North America when the term came into use, which was also before ice hockey became common). Cricket players don't tend to be violent off the field, although bowling to the batsman's face is considered legal as long as it bounces first.

      • played on ice by the guys that beat us up in high school
        The cheerleaders played hockey?

    • I don't understand the hatred towards D&D. (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      A few weeks ago I was at a mall in LA, eating in the food court. One of the stores nearby was a gaming and hobbyist shop, where they had Dungeons & Dragons paraphernalia displayed prominently in the window. A group of geeky-looking guys went in, and came out a few minutes later with a D&D set.

      They sat down in the food court, and started playing. After about 20 minutes or so, a tribe of Latino gangsta scum came over and started taunting them for playing D&D in public. I only overheard a portion o

    • Re:Well fuck (Score:5, Funny)

      by edwardpickman (965122) on Saturday March 01 2008, @07:54AM (#22609374)
      Of coarse you will. Here's a dating site.

      http://www.realdoll.com/ [realdoll.com]

  • Well here's hoping they go one better than GW did with dark heresy [dakkadakka.com] and support it after it sells out all over the place instead of dissolving the company that makes it immediately after release. *sigh*
    • Fantasy Flight Games bought the license from Games Workshop and intends to publish the rest of the Dark Heresy product line. http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/workshop-sabertooth-faq.html [fantasyflightgames.com] . On the other hand, the reviews I've read of Dark Heresy were not all positive. Great artwork and production values, but oddities around career path (none of the career choice freedom of the Warhammer RPG) and power level (PCs start out as space farm boys and don't get to be Inquisitors and their lethal retinue until

  • Classes (Score:5, Insightful)

    by TitusC3v5 (608284) on Saturday March 01 2008, @07:18AM (#22609310) Homepage
    Even though AD&D was my first PnP experience, I've liked each release less after 2nd Ed. It seems at though every time they try to further the pigeon-holing of classes into certain roles, not unlike MMOs. This edition is no different, even going so far as to actually define these roles - controller, defender, leader, striker (CoH deja vu). As it is, it looks likes D&D is going to remain the system of choice of those who are more interested in flexing the system to make ungodly powerful characters, rather than interesting ones.

    • Re:Classes (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Unoriginal_Nickname (1248894) on Saturday March 01 2008, @07:30AM (#22609330)
      Apart from, you know, 2nd Edition was a brutal hack-job created as an interim measure only to deprive Gary Gygax of royalties. 2E was riddled with terrible rules (THAC0 being one of the more benign terrible rules). I don't know if you're only looking back on 2E nostalgically or if you've just never run a 3/3.5E campaign before, but the newer rulesets are much much much better. The supplements, however, are not. They don't even try to balance things like Psionics, and creating a character using the book Savage Species is a pretty quick way to create an overpowered character. My suggestion to you is to avoid both of these things, and also to get a better DM because 3E, properly run, should be quite a bit harder (or at least more tactical).

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by owlman17 (871857)
        The way I see it, a very rough analogy would be like this: AD&D was like the Win9x series, based on top of OD&D. 2E was like WinME. 3E was like WinXP, and 3.5E was like WinXP SP2. And 4E is Vista. The other superior RPGs, (this is subjective, and can't pinpoint a particular game at the moment) like Linux/Mac/BSD. OSRIC, [knights-n-knaves.com] an open-source, AD&D clone is probably like ReactOS/Wine. I'm still into AD&D 1st Ed. (And yup, still dual-booting into Win98.)

      • Re:Classes (Score:5, Insightful)

        by pokerdad (1124121) on Saturday March 01 2008, @09:35AM (#22609678)

        Apart from, you know, 2nd Edition was a brutal hack-job created as an interim measure only to deprive Gary Gygax of royalties. 2E was riddled with terrible rules (THAC0 being one of the more benign terrible rules). I don't know if you're only looking back on 2E nostalgically or if you've just never run a 3/3.5E campaign before, but the newer rulesets are much much much better. The supplements, however, are not. They don't even try to balance things like Psionics, and creating a character using the book Savage Species is a pretty quick way to create an overpowered character. My suggestion to you is to avoid both of these things, and also to get a better DM because 3E, properly run, should be quite a bit harder (or at least more tactical).

        THAC0 could have been done better than it was (see 3E), but in 1989 it was a god send. Suddenly there was no need to always have the DMG open to the two page spread that was that the to-hit tables. No more were the unpredictable and illogical entries the riddled the extreme ends of the to-hit table; now a change in AC by 1 always meant the number you needed to roll changed by 1. I honestly doubt that the to-hit system could have been optimized any more than it was, in light of how many people were outraged at the small change ditching the table envoked.

        As for the supplements creating over powered characters - that has always been the way of D&D. Every new edition starts out with a (mostly) fair and balanced ruleset, then the add-ons spin out of control. Eventually they decided to trash everything and release a new edition; rinse repeat.

        I know I'm a bit of a rarity, but I honestly believe that every new edition has been an improvement of the previous. I have many fond memories of every one of them, but I don't equate fond memories to eliquent rules.

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Yosho (135835)

        They don't even try to balance things like Psionics, and creating a character using the book Savage Species is a pretty quick way to create an overpowered character.

        Psionics was broken in 2e, and broken again in 3e, but the 3.5 psionics presented in the Expanded Psionics Handbook is actually one of the more balanced systems in the game. Psions are certainly less broken than clerics, druids, and wizards. If you disagree, it's because you don't understand how the system works. Go to the Psionics message board [gleemax.com] on WotC's site and post any concerns you have there -- those guys can prove to you mathematically how psions are less powerful than much of the default core mat

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by XorA (147020)
      If the promises in the preview books made it into the Players Handbook, this is the least pigeon holed DnD edition ever. As characters can take class features from other classes. So you can have the fighter who can pick locks, or the cleric who can specialise in Katana. I always liked WFRP for its flexibility, and I really hope when DnD 4E is released the promises are kept up and it gets more flexibility.

  • D&D? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Ristol (745640) on Saturday March 01 2008, @07:37AM (#22609342)
    D&D? Seriously? What are you, a bunch of geeks? Now, Hackmaster.. THERE's a game!

  • New rules in the 4th edition (Score:5, Funny)

    by cyofee (975070) on Saturday March 01 2008, @07:53AM (#22609372) Homepage
    1. Cannot base characters off the Ash from the Evil Dead movies.
    2. A one man band is not an appropriate bard instrument.
    3. There is no Dwarven god of heavy artillery.
    4. My 7th Sea character Boudreaux is not the 'Southern' Montaigne.
    5. Not allowed to blow all my skill points on 1pt professional skills.
    6. Synchronized panicking is not a proper battle plan.
    7. Nor is "Kill them all and let God sort them out"
    8. Not allowed to use psychic powers to do the dishes.
    9. How to serve Dragons is not a cookbook.
    10. My monk's lips must be in sync.
    11. Just because my character and I can speak German, doesn't mean the GM can.
    13. Not allowed to berserk for the hell of it, especially during royal masquerades.
    13. Must learn at least one offensive or defensive spell if I'm the sorcerer.
    14. Must not murder canon NPCs in their sleep, no matter how cliche they are.
    15. Ogres are not kosher.
    16. Plan B is not automatically twice as much explosives as Plan A.
    17. I will not beat Tomb of Horrors in less than 10 minutes from memory.
    18. Collateral Damage Man is not an appropriate name for a super hero.
    19. When surrendering I am to hand the sword over HILT first.
    20. Drow are not good eating.
    21. Polka is not appropriate marching music.
    22. No longer allowed to recreate the Death Star Trench Run out of genre.
    23. There is no such thing as a Gnomish Pygmy War Rhino.
    24. Any character who has a sensitivity training center named after him will be taken away.
    25. Even if the rules allow it, I am not allowed to summon 50,000 Blue Whales.
    26. The green elf does not need food badly.
    27. Valley speak has no place in a fantasy setting. Especially if you're the paladin.
    28. I am not to shoot every corpse in the head to make sure they aren't a zombie in Twilight 2000.
    29. The Goddess' of Marriage chosen weapon is not the whip.
    30. I cannot have any gun that requires me to continue the damage code on back.
    31. I am not to kill off all the vampires in the LARP, even if they are terminally stupid.
    32. The backup trap handler is not whoever has the most HP at the time.
    33. I cannot buy any animal in groups of 100 or over.
    34. There is no such skill as 'improvised cooking'
    35. I am not allowed to base any Droid off any character played by Joe Pesci.
    36. I am not allowed to convince the entire party to play R2 units.
    37. I am not allowed to convince the entire party to sit on the same side of the table.
    38. They do not make black market illegal cyberweapons for rodents.
    39. When investigating evil cultists not allowed to just torch the decrepit mansion from the outside.
    40. Dwarves do not have the racial ability 'can lick their eyebrows'
    41. Dwarves do not have the racial ability to hold their breath for 10 minutes.
    42. Dwarves do not have the racial ability 'impromptu kickstand'
    43. Having a big nose adds nothing to my seduction check.
    44. No longer allowed to set nazi propaganda music to a snappy disco beat.
    45. Not allowed to spend all 100 character points on 100 1pt skills.
    46. My character names are not allowed to be double entendres.
    47. Sliver rhymes with silver because the computer frelling says so.
    48. They do not make Nair in wookie sizes.
    49. The elf is restricted to decaf for the rest of the adventure.
    50. Not allowed to blow up the Death Star before that snotty farm kid gets his shot.
    51. Not allowed to use thermodynamic science to asphyxiate the orcs' cave instead of exploring it first.
    52. No longer allowed to use the time machine for booty calls.
    53. My bard does not know how to play Inna Godda Davida on marachas.
    54. Not allowed to start a drow character weighing more than a quarter ton.
    55. Cannot pimp out other party members.
    56. Before facing the dragon, not allowed to glaze the elf.
    57. No matter how well I roll, a squirrel cannot carry a horse and rider at full sprint.
    58. In the middle of a black op I cannot ask a guard to validate parking.
    59. Expended ammun

  • Is this really stil about gaming or... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 01 2008, @08:18AM (#22609420)
    Maybe its my age showing, I dunno, but a good 10 - 15 years ago I too was a very enthousiast RPG player, the main interest lied in D&D. However, when looking back and looking at the 4th edition being launched I can't help wonder if this isn't a mere quest for more money and nothing else. Let me explain...

    What I liked best about roleplaying was that you didn't really need much to have fun. You basically needed a good DM to setup a story and who was familiar with the rules, but that didn't have to cost much. When we started out a friend bought the D&D starters kit which had the basic rules, copied them for us and so began our quest. We didn't need much more; the DM setup the whole stories using using a notebook (the paper thing, not a laptop ;)) and that was it. We all had our own dice but we also used to take turns when playing. SO when adding up you didn't really need much money to get the most fun out of the game. And this is what has always fascinated me about D&D, a very well setup game which didn't require tremendous amounts of cash.

    And when the party grew and we wanted more I eventually stumbed upon the D&D Rules Cyclopedia [amazon.com] (sorry for the commercial link but its the best I could find). And that was the beginning of the end for us; all of a sudden we had all the rules and every table you could possibly dream of in 1 big ass book. Even better; it even clearly explained how you could expand on the D&D universe to add enhancements of your own. In the end we ended up creating our own imaginary island on which we would live several nice adventures. In the end it wasn't about knowing all the rules or living it strictly as told. We cared about the role playing and the adventuring, nothing else.

    It was also during that time when I got in contact with AD&D 2nd edition. What struck me as odd from the start were the tremendous amounts of books you required to setup a good game, or at least thats how it looked to me. Personally I got completely sucked into Dragonlance. Not so much on playing but reading the stories from Weiss and Hickman. I collected the whole Dragonlance Chronicles and Legends and also many paperbacks with 3rd party stories. Some of those were quite amazing. However, then it suddenly struck me that the whole thing was aimed at a very particular crowd and many stories all centred about a common goal: stopping Takhisis from performing her evil deeds. And all guided by several (many) very strict rules and hints and tips.

    And after checking out dozens of AD&D 2nd edition rule books (not specifically aimed at Dragonlance) I couldn't help wonder about one very simple and basic idea: "Where is the roleplaying in all this?". To me it felt like the whole "RPG experience" was picked up and used to describe a whole different thing. Sure, you had your roleplaying and it wasn't /all/ about rules. But compared to D&D there was much more to gain in AD&D if you at least purchased a basic pack of books in order to know your basics. Was this really only about gaming or....

    Well, its a trend I saw happening throughout the scene. The Dragonlance books I so adored were illustrated mainly by Larry Elmore. An artist who's work I really admired. Its only natural that I bought some of his artbooks ("The art of Dragonlance") which I really enjoyed. But, picture my surprise when I noticed that after a few years (5 or so) they suddenly changed the pictures on the covers. The Elmore pictures were gone and replaced by other stuff. Even the whole TSR logo and approach was different. And it was then and there where I saw that things turned more mainstream (in my experience at least).

    Next you had AD&D 3rd edition (not too long ago iirc, I could be mistaken) and now the next rules have leaked out. And then, to finish up this long story, I cannot help ask myself: "What happened to creating your own story based on existing rules using nothign more but some pieces of paper and your dice". But like I said; it must be my age showing ;-)

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by CronoCloud (590650)
      Yeah, the Rules Cyclopedia kicks ass. Everything you need, including the skills system presented in the Gazetteers. Even simple easy to use mass-combat and dominion rules in one book. Plus, Classic D&D (the Basic to Master's box sets or this book) is designed to remain balanced even when your characters hit high level.

      Not only that, the book has a short overview of TSR's best and most underrated fantasy world, Mystara. Blows away Greyhawk (Oerth)for comprehensibility, blows away The Realms (Abeir-Tor

  • Fourth Edition? Really? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Mr. Bad Example (31092) on Saturday March 01 2008, @08:21AM (#22609430) Homepage
    Oh, man...I put on my robe and wizard hat.

  • D&D sucks (Score:4, Insightful)

    by paulatz (744216) on Saturday March 01 2008, @08:36AM (#22609468) Homepage

    Maybe the subject is a bit rude, but I cannot like D&D any more. It is getting more and more cumbersome and unrealistic, it more of a math problem than a simple canvas on which to build with your fantasy.

    It have been a few years now, since I last did some role playing with my friend, in the last period we had much more fun using a simple set of rules we had developed ourselves than any boxed set

    D&D is especially bad as it started as a simple set of rules, with some original points and, and than evolved to gigantic, while keeping it's original inconsistencies and awkward mechanics.

    Anyway I don't I will have much time to play it again until I retire, and it will take, well.. about 40 years

    • "It is getting more and more cumbersome and unrealistic"

      Its a game about zombies, dragons, elves, fireballs and magic swords, and you are complaining that its getting more unrealistic?!?

    • Re:D&D sucks (Score:5, Insightful)

      by vertinox (846076) on Saturday March 01 2008, @08:56AM (#22609530)
      Maybe the subject is a bit rude, but I cannot like D&D any more. It is getting more and more cumbersome and unrealistic, it more of a math problem than a simple canvas on which to build with your fantasy.

      I was thinking the same thing about the new rules. I remember at times as a kid in which we would just throw out the rules for simplicity and have a six sided die scale with 1 being you failed horribly at the task and 6 mean you succeeded brilliantly with varying modifiers for success or failure on occasion. It wasn't about playing a game as it was story telling and role playing. Now it seems they just want to take WoW's success and bring it to PnP which is not that great of an idea.

      I was hoping that someday we would see PnP actually go online, but I'm having my doubts.
    • Torg, Gurps, Skyrealms of Jorune, Exalted, Runequest, Milleniums End, Harnmaster, Palladium, Everway, etc. ... there are *tons* of RPGs out there that are cheaper, more in-depth, have better material, are more flexible, easyer to understand and better to handle than D&D.

      To make an analogy to the IT world: I see D&D something like the SQL of RPGs. It's ancient, unwieldy, expensive, slow, unneccessary and really crappy by modern standards but for the reason of some undiscovered infinetly raging mass-p

  • Holy Power Levels Batman!!! (Score:5, Informative)

    by BobMcD (601576) on Saturday March 01 2008, @09:02AM (#22609548)
    I'm looking at the back of that specific Tiefling Wizard's sheet, and it seems to me that conversion is going right out the window. This 1st level character seems pretty beefy to me, in terms of sheer spell face-meltage. Does 'At-Will' really mean "as much as you want, just so long as it is your turn"?

    Likewise it seems the Fighter gets to throw a 3d10+5 blow once per day. Yes, I typed that right. 8-35 damage, once daily, renews if you miss - AT LEVEL ONE?

    If so, wow. Just wow.

    • Re:Holy Power Levels Batman!!! (Score:5, Informative)

      by BobMcD (601576) on Saturday March 01 2008, @09:10AM (#22609566)
      Nevermind! I now see that a kobold now has 27 hit points... So that fighter, once per day, MIGHT get to one-shot a kobold.

      I now officially know nothing about D&D...

    • See, I actually like it this way. It always bothered me that someone could stand there and take 40 arrows to the chest and keep on fighting. The way it's done in 4e, one arrow from a good marksman is a mortal wound. You need to spend fairly scant resources to keep yourself alive, or think about how you'll cooperate to prevent that marksman from getting his shot off. It's much better, and in the hands of a competent DM, should be far more "cinematic" and fun.

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by Culture20 (968837)
        Then you'll hate the stats in TFA: Kobolds have 27 HP, and a first level wizard with a 10 Con has 20 HP. Also notice that the wizard heals 5 HP 6 times a day, so now a wizard can take 40 arrows in the chest at first level.

    • Re:Holy Power Levels Batman!!! (Score:4, Informative)

      by Yosho (135835) on Saturday March 01 2008, @10:23AM (#22609866) Homepage
      Yeah, HP levels are getting inflated again. It happened during the move from 2nd to 3rd ed, so it's no surprise they're doing it again. Remember when elder dragons had on the order of 80 HP or so?

      • Re:Holy Power Levels Batman!!! (Score:5, Interesting)

        by foo fighter (151863) on Saturday March 01 2008, @11:52AM (#22610292) Homepage
        Yes. And it sucked. Players and DMs had to be very careful or you'd TPK before anyone got to 2nd level. PCs were so fragile you couldn't role-play because you can't waste emotional energy becoming attached to a character that was probably going to die before the end of the session.

        The solution was building characters that started at level 5, or thereabouts. So 3rd and now 4th edition are just being honest and getting rid of the 1st-4th levels that sucked to play, sucked to DM, and actively encouraged min-maxing and not roleplaying.

    • Re:Holy Power Levels Batman!!! (Score:4, Informative)

      by dcollins (135727) on Saturday March 01 2008, @10:40AM (#22609938) Homepage
      Yes. One of the very first things that designers said publicly months ago is that conversions will not be possible to 4E. There's a bit of song-and-dance marketing that "the same idea in your head will now have different mechanics applied".

      This is intentional, because they're trying to break compatibility with last edition's Open Gaming License (inspired by the GPL), and make D&D once again totally proprietary.

      • Re:Holy Power Levels Batman!!! (Score:4, Informative)

        by debrisslider (442639) on Saturday March 01 2008, @02:27PM (#22611058)
        That's a complete lie. Here's the press release about the OGL for 4th edition [wizards.com]. There is a fee for a prerelease OGL, but once the game actually launches it's free. I assume they charge for the extra work getting the documents to the third party takes, and because there'll be an obvious bonus to other publishers due to the PR frenzy at release. And what's so bad about not being compatible? It's an entirely different rules set, designed to play much differently. It's not like there's a dearth of 3rd edition material that hasn't been played by the average group, and campaign settings have always been described in terms of both flavor and mechanics, so if you're really desperate for new ideas you could just steal them from there (or any other gaming company's publications). Also, I'm tired of hearing people complain about having to buy new books. No one is forcing you to upgrade if you really love 3ed that much, and all your REALLY need to play is the player's handbook (plus DMG and Monster Manual, but that's for the DM). I really wish I had ANY hobby as cheap as PNP RPGing can be; you can buy into D&D4e for less than the cost of two semi-recent video games. Buy a couple of supplements a year and you're still way below the threshold for basically any other hobby. There's plenty of fan-generated material you can get for free on the web, you seriously never have to spend more than $30/$90 plus dice ever to play the game.

  • Red & Blue books (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Bender0x7D1 (536254) on Saturday March 01 2008, @10:54AM (#22609994) Homepage

    Give me my red and blue rule books and I'll be off to the Keep on the Borderlands or the Isle of Dread. If I have some time, on the way I'll stop by the Palace of the Silver Princess.

    Sure, the later books filled in a lot of missing material, but the basic and expert sets covered what you needed to start playing and having fun. (I also liked the first edition of AD&D.) If I'm playing a game I don't want to be bogged down in so many details and minutia that I stop having fun. Do I really need to worry about having a sewing kit? I battle orc hordes and packs of bugbears - why should I worry about having spare tabards in my backpack so I look nice for the victory feast?

    Now, a lot of that can be fixed by a good DM, but many start considering the details once they see them in the book. It never would have entered their mind that you need to keep a sewing kit - except that it's in the equipment list, so you should have bought one if you wanted one. Keep things simple. Keep them fun. If I wanted to handle all of the historical details, I'd join a civil war reenactment group. If I wanted to handle all of the details - I'd worry about doing laundry in real life. If I want to role play - I'll start living a second life. With all the new rulebooks, and their inflated prices, it's cheaper to live a double life.

  • Ain't It Cool has a 3-part review (Score:4, Informative)

    by Robotech_Master (14247) on Saturday March 01 2008, @01:38PM (#22610824) Homepage Journal
    There's a glowing playtest review of the game on Ain't It Cool News. Part One [aintitcool.com], Part Two [aintitcool.com]. Part Three should be posted some time today.
    • You forgot to apply your -1 modifier to the roll. Once corrected you'll find you now have the second post.

    • They simply destroyed DnD. And no, I don't mean 3rd edition or 3.5. I mean dismantling the settings that had no profitable audience and then pushing harder and harder to make it clear that it's always been a purely minature game.
      There, fixed that for you.

      (There's a reason why AD&D 1st edition had measurements in inches, and everything was described as "rounds" and "turns")

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by mark-t (151149)

      Actually, it was the various settings that I think were the nail in the coffin for TSR... because not everybody in their market niche would be interested in buying every single campaign setting, they ended up fragmenting their audience to below sustainable thresholds. But it's not Planescape's fault, I still think that was the best campaign setting TSR ever came out with. Long before planescape came along, however, TSR was already in serious trouble.

      When 2nd edition came out, had TSR instead of focusin

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