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Talent Build Examples for Blizzard's New Death Knight

Posted by ScuttleMonkey on Mon Jul 21, 2008 01:28 PM
from the balance-is-always-a-fun-game dept.
Role Playing (Games) Entertainment Games
With Blizzard's Wrath of the Lich King NDA out of the way, there has been the inevitable flood of information about the new expansion hitting the streets. One of the most sought-after pieces of information is anything about the new class being introduced, the Death Knight. Massively has a great summary, with video examples, of the three different avenues available to the Death Knight. From the AE strengths of unholy, to the life-stealing blood tree, to the control of the frost tree, it seems that this new juggernaut is certainly going to be a force to be reckoned with.
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Talent Build Examples for Blizzard's New Death Knight 50 Comments More /

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  • Too soon! (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 21 2008, @01:44PM (#24278435)

    Heath just died, and already you're calling it "The Death Knight"?

    Too soon guys, too soon.

  • Now we finally understand Blizzard's strategy of class balance and all this "e-sport" nonsense! You see, they'll introduce a new class that is so vastly superior to all the others that everyone stops playing the other classes.

    Balance issues solved!

    • Balance can also be achieved when the only players left playing are those who don't care about whether they have the most powerful class or not.

    • Obligatory Penny-Arcade: http://penny-arcade.com/comic/2008/7/14/ [penny-arcade.com]

        • Try actually reading it. Third panel describes exactly what I was replying to.

          You see, they'll introduce a new class that is so vastly superior to all the others that everyone stops playing the other classes.

          Reminded me of:

          Chaos World-Smasher -- balance problems

    • Well from the videos I have seen I would sadly have to agree.

      Yet as a HERO class what else can they do and still set the class apart? I think their biggest mistake with this class is the fact only one HERO class is coming. They should have had at least two. Still, TBC and further additions of content have turned the game into Monty Hall. You either PvP or Raid else you don't get the shiny stuff. No long drawn out quests compete with raiding epics or welfare epics.

      This class seriously risks replacing some classes or variants of classes. Yet I expect the one place where it will be put in its place is among raiders. They don't suffer so much the flavor of the month. So if it shows up in significant numbers during raids that will truly indicate whether or not it is overly powerful. Hardcore raiders are of a different mindset than arena players or pvp bg play. Whereas gimmicks rule the day for pvp (arena,bg) its teamwork and synergy that rule raids.

      If anything I guess we needed a monty hall class to go with the monty hall loot.

      • The DK class will serve one major purpose and that is as a tank. As anyone who plays WoW knows, there is a massive shortage of viable tanks (prot-spec warriors or tanking druids, with the proper gear). Since most raid spots only need 1 or two tanks, if you still want to be guaranteed a raid spot or be nigh-unkillable in PvP, roll a healer.

        • Re:Class balance finally revealed (Score:5, Informative)

          by archen (447353) on Monday July 21 2008, @02:34PM (#24279187)

          Things will be changing however. Currently tanks (and healers somewhat) simply cannot do enough damage to solo things very well. In the expansion everyone will do more damage, and thus have some solo viability. Threat generated will also be changed and it looks like people will be able to tank more with an off spec. And from what I've seen the tank shortage (aside from the large responsibility) often comes down to the fact that when you are spec'd to tank, that's about all you can do, and many would like to do other things.

          The Burning Crusade made a lot of good changes and made many classes viable, but it also seemed to pigeon hole just about everyone into one spec and/or one job. It looks like Blizzard is trying to allow people to have much more versatility in the way they play, while still being viable.

          • Re:Class balance finally revealed (Score:5, Insightful)

            by bwindle2 (519558) on Monday July 21 2008, @03:38PM (#24280179)

            If they really want to fix the soloing problem AND the tank/healer shortage all at once, they need to make respecs free. My paladin has a great healing set, and a decent tanking set, and a meh ret set. I am not willing to drop 100G to respec prot and back again to tank some pug that'll likely suck anyway. I also can't afford to drop 100G to respec Retibution to do (some) better damage for soloing.

            But if re-specing were free, or at least a heck of a lot cheaper, I might.

        • You left out paladins. Druids cannot block. There are fights that still have crushing blows. Also, with the latest buffs from the released specs on Paladins, it looks like their successes will only continue.

  • news? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Zironic (1112127)

    What exactly makes this newsworthy? The NDA was lifted over a week ago and it's still alpha and in my experiance alot changes between alpha and release when it comes to blizzard.

    • Re:news? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by MooseMuffin (799896) on Monday July 21 2008, @02:01PM (#24278657)
      You're in the games section. The newsworthy requirement is significantly reduced.
      • Indeed. The idea of a headline listing is to give you a wide range of selection; interesting to some; not so to others. You do not need to read or comment on that which do not interest you.

        • I'm interested in games, i'm even directly interested in WoW and i'm planning to get myself a deathknight, it's just that this isn't terribly new or interesting information.

          • "no real endgame"

            "grinding factions or farming gold"

            You haven't played the wow endgame, or you just hate raiding, heroic dungeons, battlegrounds, arenas, crafting, questing in new zones like Sunwell, and improving your character in ways completely separate from the level. And if that's true, I have to wonder how you managed to play to level 70 without losing interest in the game. As for the vanguard comparison, wow leveling is simple enough (7 days /played time for a 70, or 2-3 months of playing a reasonabl

  • Deathknight needs a nerf.
  • All classes are imbalanced in certain situations or against certain classes. Resto spec druids are a good example, almost impossible to take down. Not a huge deal in most situations as they eventually run out of mana, run away, or 5+ people eventually mow them down but for WSG for instance, they make almost unstoppable flag runners. Rogues are another good example: cheat death (although recently nerfed), vanish, cloak of shadows, and stun/mace spec makes fighting most classes one on one or two on one a joke. Once again not a big deal until half the team is rogues and your team gets mowed down as they spawn.

    WoW already has unbalanced classes or specs... why makes us think they are going to really care if the Death Knight is out of whack? Isn't that the whole idea as it's a "Hero" class?
    • There's really no imbalance since you can always roll any of the classes. Flavor of the Month got you down? Roll one.

      This won't be any different from the DK. Everyone will be able to roll one. At first I thought it'd at least require you to sacrifice a character you already leveled or do a series of quests but I haven't heard anything more about that in a long time.
      • I agree with you and actually my resto druid just hit 64 last night. ;) Mostly just because our Battle Group is severely lacking in healers while it seems like all alliance has on our side is healers and rogues.

    • I agree with all of the above. WoW is all about RPS [wikipedia.org]. I am a Mage, so restoration Druids could as well be immortal when we fight one on one, but on the other hand I can run away from virtually any class (even hunter, unless BM) and so, in a way, I get to choose my battles.

      I don't see what the commotion is all about. DK will fit into that picture just fine, and will probably change considerably over the first six months.

      • You can run from a rogue? With slow poisons, deadly throw, blind, stuns, etc? My main is a frost mage and while from time to time I can get away generally a rogue on me is eventual death unless I have someone helping me out. Usually it's not even worth trying as I have to blow most of my cool downs to get away... and the rogue is still alive.

        • He could be a fire or elementalist mage. Blazing Speed is a pretty frequent proc against fast attacking Rogues.

        • Without slowing poison, I just need to blink, slow, and keep running. If a rogue is well prepared with poisons and stuns, it may end badly, but with some luck I can simply insta-sheep and walk away.

  • Sadly Blizzard seems to have lost the point behind expansions first with Outlands, and now with this new class. My greatest concern is that rather than focusing on new content that everyone can enjoy as they did in the original, instead they have just ramped up the difficulty on mobs so much that only insanely well geared people will even SEE most of the end game content. Now I'm not sure if this was an attempt by Blizzard to introduce more of the 'teamwork' element that served them so well, but it seems t

    • Tanks get replaced by Druids? (Feral tanks actually scale badly past T4 content, Warriors and Paladins are safe, and Warriors are in fact specifically required.)

      Vanilla WoW not having content only the most hardcore with the best gear can do? (Never heard of the great blunder, Naxxramus? So few people saw that one they're redoing it and putting it back in Wrath.)

      Man, did you stop playing 2 years ago or something?

    • A few points:

      1) Only insanely well geared people saw most of the endgame content before BC.
      2) BC raiding is more casual friendly than pre-BC raiding.
      3) Heroic Dungeons were a good idea implemented badly.
      3b) The development resources used to create Heroic Dungeons wouldn't have been enough to create a new raid (they're probably separate teams anyway).
      4) There's plenty of fun to be had already, and Blizzard looks poised to improve further still.

    • First off, your entire post makes you seem like someone who hasn't even experienced most of the game you're trying to talk about.

      My greatest concern is that rather than focusing on new content that everyone can enjoy as they did in the original, instead they have just ramped up the difficulty on mobs so much that only insanely well geared people will even SEE most of the end game content.

      There was a gear reset at 70, everyone was on an even level. You have just as much of a chance at getting to the end-game as everyone else who's seen it has. How do you think they got that gear? It didn't just fall from the sky. There will be a gear reset at 80 as well. The entire point of an MMO is to entice people to want more and better stuff. If you got to a point where t

  • ...that will make it overpowered. If does not get the gear to push those talents and skills they may very well flop. Druids specced feral before the expansion was released where considered sub-par DPS and not a great threat to players PvP wise. After when the gear designed for them was released, the weeping was so great they have to scale back some of the abilities.

    If they are not thought of in the itemization then or their gear is itemized poorly. Then no matter how cool the abilities are, Deathknights

  • you can find anything you want to know about all the class changes http://wotlkwiki.info/index.php/Classes [wotlkwiki.info] they get updated there as they become available.

    • Re:Age of Conan much more interesting. (Score:5, Funny)

      by ivan256 (17499) on Monday July 21 2008, @01:42PM (#24278395)

      Translation: Not to start a flamewar, but let's talk about something off topic, since it's sure to be something that will get under the skin of the types of people who would read this particular article..

      Maybe it's just me, but isn't that the definition of trying to start a flamewar?

    • Ever since I became aware of AoC a few years back, I have been holding out hope that it will address what feels like the biggest failing of WoW: that content is spread so freakishly thinly across the world. I like the way Tycho on Penny-Arcade put it, that standing in Lakeshire makes you wonder why they don't bother making a game out of all the raw material they have in the world. You show up in a place, do a quest for 6 minutes, and then you leave the area, never to return.

      Anyway, I hope that AoC invests m

      • Re:Age of Conan much more interesting. (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Krater76 (810350) on Monday July 21 2008, @02:07PM (#24278763) Journal

        I like the way Tycho on Penny-Arcade put it, that standing in Lakeshire makes you wonder why they don't bother making a game out of all the raw material they have in the world.

        It might not be the game Tycho wants. They made their game, and while somewhat entertaining it wasn't what I wanted.

        And that's the heart of the problem. Some people want crazy continent-wide PvP. Some people just want to explore. Some people want to destroy the largest monsters in the world. Some people want shiny stuff. Some people want to be involved with, or be the focus of, a story. And some people just want to buy/sell/create stuff and never leave town. And everyone wants to do it at varying speeds (the casual vs. hardcore).

        You can't please everyone. You can certainly try, but Blizzard has certainly given up in a lot of places. World PvP and crafting are definitely two that come to mind right off the bat. They are going to try for some things in regards to world PvP in WotLK but we'll see how that goes. They tried updates to world PvP in BC as well and that didn't turn out so great. Crafting is more of a money sink than anything else and is considered by many to be one of the worst crafting systems in MMOs. I doubt that will change.

        • Re:Age of Conan much more interesting. (Score:5, Insightful)

          by Oliver Wendell Jones (158103) on Monday July 21 2008, @02:50PM (#24279441)
          Any game that features PvE and PvP is never going to please everyone. It takes a great deal of effort to fairly balance a game for either PvE or PvP - it's almost impossible to do. People who play PvE want big weapons (or spells or whatever) that do massive damage, and if it can kill your opponent in one swing (casting, etc.) that's even better. In PvP, no one wants to go into a fight knowing that they can be one-hit-killed, so weapons, spells, etc. have to be toned down.

          Crafting is another touch situation. If you can craft anything that is profitable, then everyone will jump on that wagon and drive the value down.

          I have played a lot of MMORPGs (the original Neverwinter Nights on AOL back in the early 1990s, right up through WoW and have yet to find a game that can fairly and accurately balance a PvE and PvP situation to keep a majority of people happy - WoW comes closest, but there will always be people who are unhappy.

          BTW - I'm playing Dungeon Runners [dungonerunners.com] right now and it's a blast (if a bit simple) and you can't argue with the price (free, or $5/mo if you want all the features).

        • The problem with BC world PVP is that there isn't much of a reward for doing it. The item rewards are pretty useless. You will out level them before you get them. Since there isn't really a compelling reason to control the world pvp areas, people rarely bother.
          I'm sure if they opened up a level 70 PVP area in Netherstorm or Shadowmoon Valley and rewarded badges of justice that would see some activity.

          • Re:Age of Conan much more interesting. (Score:4, Insightful)

            by Tridus (79566) on Monday July 21 2008, @03:28PM (#24280017) Homepage

            The real problem with world PvP is that too many servers are faction imbalanced. When one side outnumbers the other 2:1 at ANY encounter, the whole thing becomes pointless.

            Making it give rewards makes the problem worse, since the bigger side always wins, it'll also outgear the smaller side. It also encourages people to leech (such as AFKing in BGs and the rampant cheating in Season 3 arenas) to get the rewards faster, instead of actually playing.

            (Honestly, world PvP was at its best in the days of the original Taren Mill vs. Southshore fights, which had no rewards whatsoever. People did it because it was fun, not to get l33t shinies.)

      • Re:Age of Conan much more interesting. (Score:4, Funny)

        by snuf23 (182335) on Monday July 21 2008, @03:04PM (#24279637)

        And then you hit Hellfire Peninsula and spend three or more long, painful levels staring a the Mars like terrain getting squished by random fel reavers. Then you leave and are happy never to return to it.

        • Personally, I loved Hellfire Peninsula. The first time I walked through the portal, heard the music, saw the rampaging demons and the spacious sky I was simply awed.

          Then I got squished by a Fel Reaver a half dozen times and became paranoid. I remember weeping once when I watched a line of Alliance and Horde questers get squished one after the other as they fought quest mobs, oblivious to the shaking ground.

          Good times.

        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by edremy (36408)
          Who has to ride for 20 minutes anywhere in AOC? It takes 30 seconds or less to cross any zone once you have explored it
          1. Kill yourself. PvP, cliffs, drowning, whatever.
          2. Res on the other side of the zone
          3. Laugh at all the people who shelled out 2g for a horse

          Embrace the deathport, the only *real* way to travel in AOC. (43 PoM before realizing the game was only half baked.)

          • Apparently you missed last week's patch that modified the fast travel points(wagon/boat) in the major cities to take you to the middle and furthest zones beyond - not just the nearest zone. ;)

        • I'm not sure what you mean about there not being enough quests in each zone to level (in WoW). A few months back they released a massive patch that changed the whole 1-60 game. They changed quests to give a lot more xp, reduced the amount of xp you needed to level, and re-itemized quest rewards and instance loot so that they're actually somewhat useful rather than being random garbage.

          In the latest patch, they threw a bone in to make it even easier - mounts are now gotten at 30, for less gold, instead of at

    • age of conan and world of warcraft are two close competitors for the top slot of mmo genre. the two games also generally employ very similar concepts. although age of conan generally expands on many of them.

      whomever modded the parent offtopic is either someone who didnt play both of the games or a fanboi of world of warcraft. or clueless. either applies. combinations may apply too.
        • did you play that other game ?

          if you had, you'd see that it is basically almost on the same outline as wow, however improved.

          vista and linux are not comparable items. they are fundamentally different not only in their code and implementation, but philosophy. this doesnt apply here.

      • Not to start a big flamewar about games, but all these barbarians prancing around with faeries comes off as "pretty ghey".

        Pfft. That's not even true.

        I'll have you know that my barbarian in EQ2 had some delicate earrings and a delicate necklace with a butterfly pendant. And let's just say that the "monk outfit" showed so much skin that you'd think skin cancer was all the rage. If you think being grouped with some Faeries made him look "teh ghey", you haven't seen him ;)

    • I've seen just as many asswipes in other games as in WoW. While many of them leave for WoW eventually, most don't -- some even bring back bad habits from WoW.

      I think the other poster is right -- it's got nothing to do with the game, and everything to do with the scale.

    • Having played several other MMOs in the post-WoW era, I found three things:

      1. Morons, same as WoW has
      2. Elitist jerks who think they're cool because they're playing some less popular game, no matter how much of a half-baked buggy mess it happens to be. This varies from the WoW Elitist jerks, who feel that way because they have more purples or bought a higher arena rating.
      3. Relatively normal people who enjoy playing the game and like playing with others who also enjoy playing it.

      The only real difference is

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