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Interview With an EVE Pirate
Posted by
ScuttleMonkey
on Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:47 PM
from the life-in-the-shadows dept.
from the life-in-the-shadows dept.
Within any game, especially massive games, there is usually a well established culture. This of course ultimately leads to some sort of counterculture (usually a la griefer). CCP's EVE has been able to give life to a counterculture that isn't completely destructive and makes for a very rich gameplay experience. Massively recently had a chance to sit down with one of EVE's leading criminals to discuss life as an outlaw. "One notable criminal organization devoted to piracy is Veto Corp, headed by their CEO Ethan Verone, who is without a doubt one of New Eden's more notorious pirates. Under his guidance, Veto Corp has been linked to numerous incidents of ransoming, hijacking, and illegal arms sales, among their many other crimes. Their modus operandi of shunning territorial control in favor of remaining fast and free ensures that Veto can conduct 'business' and hit targets anytime, and practically anywhere."
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so much for notorius (Score:5, Informative)
I don't speak for all of Eve players, but I've certainly never heard of them.
Re:so much for notorius (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:so much for notorius (Score:4, Funny)
In his mind, he's a legend. In real life, a fry cook at Denny's.
That's just his secret identity!
Parent
I've heard of Ethan Verone (Score:2)
I've heard of Ethan Verone. I used to read his posts on Eve-Pirate.
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Re:so much for notorius (Score:5, Insightful)
Band of Developers.
they run into problems they have their pet admins fix it for them.
Parent
What's the difference between pirate and corp? (Score:3, Interesting)
How is what Veto Corp does different from what other corps do? Okay, so they don't claim large tracts of space for themselves (which might be the biggest form of piracy there is in EVE), but any corp will gladly kill you if you look at them the wrong way.
And what's illegal about arms trade in Eve? Is there anything at all that's illegal there? Okay, attacking people in 1.0 space gets you in trouble with the cops, but other than that, anything goes, right?
I guess the two distinguishing features of Veto Corps
Yar! (Score:5, Funny)
Just doin his part to keep EVE Online free of Global Warming.
Re:Yar! (Score:4, Informative)
The pirate/temperature graph has been part of FSM scriptures [venganza.org] since the beginning.
Parent
ugh god (Score:5, Interesting)
the developers don't try to shelter their users
they openly designed it so there could be things like this.
eve is a real mmo the way it should be done
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Re:ugh god (Score:4, Insightful)
And this is why Eve will forever remain a niche MMO.
this is why I also like EVE. the developers dont compromise and try to cater to the needs of constant whiners. they offer you a lot of possibilities but the learning curve (and universe) is ruthless. this way the community is pretty mature and dedicated.
Fine and dandy with me if it helps keeps the assholes off WoW and Guild Wars.
have fun playing with your dolls. we will have fun playing with our fucking SPACESHIPS. in space!
Parent
Re:ugh god (Score:4, Interesting)
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Re:ugh god (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't grief yet I find it enjoyable to play. (non-carebear industrialist) Think of the griefers as NPC's, as if AI had advanced (or receded) 100 years. They are your opponents in the game.
If you keep thinking of the other players as 'intruding on _YOUR_ game', you'll never understand EVE. The players are the game, not the brainless rats.
Parent
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If you keep thinking of the other players as 'intruding on _YOUR_ game', you'll never understand EVE. The players are the game, not the brainless rats.
Wow, that was insightful, thanks.
In all seriousness, this may be one reason why I've never understood EVE.
I'm intrigued.
Re:ugh god (Score:4, Interesting)
I've been playing for ... 3, 4 years now? I forget. But it's a while, and obviously I'm therefore biased. But I'm forever saddened by the number of people who play EVE, spend 6 weeks grinding missions, and then declaring it 'meh boring' and leave again. Yes, there's parts of EVE that are boring. But there's a whole lot of other stuff to do - anything you can think of, you can go and do. That's part of the problem with it - you don't ever get told what to do, beyond those basic missions, you just have to decide to go do it. EVE is about making your own fun, which doesn't suit everyone - if what you want to do is get told by an NPC to go kill 50 rats, frankly WOW does it better. If you want an open ended game, that's a single universe, and you can do whatever you want, provided you have the firepower to back up your will, then that's EVE. You're free to do whatever. You're free to lead, you're free to follow, and you're free to fail. Player vs. Player means you're climbing the ladder, and sometimes you're stepping on the shoulders of others to get a boost. Some will do so willingly, some will ... object.
It's not a game for everyone. Not everyone likes strategy games, not everyone likes winning at a cost of someone else losing. Not everyone like a game that requires you to think, plan and organise extensively - large scale fleet deployments in EVE can take significant amounts of effort. Or rather, significant amounts of effort if you want to win. It can also be necessary to abort an operation, having 'wasted' an evening of gaming, because fighting today you'll lose, because they're ready for you. Some will charge anyway, lose ships, and maybe have fun doing so. Others will not, and will go home, or do something else. This can be very frustrating, and does have an impact on morale - and morale is also important in EVE. It's a managable resource like anything else.
As said, I've played for ages, and still love it. I know others won't - some just won't like it, and others will come to the game thinking the 'wrong way' to get ahead. But I still get the shiver down my spine, and pumping adrenaline when engaging in a serious fight, and there's remarkably few games that still do that for me.
Parent
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There is no "beating" Eve. It's an expansive MMO with an ongoing storyline. It's massive to the point that no single person - regardless of how many accounts they own and how much free time they have - can fully explore all parts of the game from all points of view.
Yes, the game starts out slow. And it has to - the interface is so complex, powerful, and loaded with features that you'd be lost beyond hope if it started out fast-paced. The gameplay starts out slow for the first few days (unless you immediatel
Pirates fight whenever they can (Score:4, Interesting)
Pirates never fight on even terms (they always hide when out gunned)
Not at all true. We get in all kinds of fights that are even, lopsided, traps, whatever. You get a couple fleets slugging it out, and them you get stomped. No problem, you know now you can bait their big stuff out, so you plan ahead and then get your payback (and not necessarily with a larger fleet; more often than not, good planning and little quick thinking is more important than sheer numbers.
Another example would be faction warfare PvP. There's gangs of all sizes flying around. You have 12, they have 21? Well, what sizes are we talking about? Hmmm, we have two more cruisers than them, yeah, might work, if we can take that ship first, then that one, then either of those two. Good tactics and a good fleet commander making good decisions easily doubles the size of your fleet.
I think you were fell victim to one too many can flips and finally got pissed enough about all that veld you were losing that you quit -- without a full picture of what the entire game has to offer. You use the phrase "mind numbingly boring". What is mining if not that? Where's the excitement in watching a mining laser fire off again and again and again...
-B
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Mining was a mostly relaxing way to waste time. Sure I got upset when some griefer stole ore from me, but I wouldn't say I got "pissed", so much as it made me realize the game rules were made for griefers and I had no part in it since my idea of fun isn't taking away someone else's. It's not like I didn't try fighting back, like I would NPCs in other games, but a basic mining ship is not going to take out a fighter.
It doesn't matter. Every other part of the game I played seemed pointless too. Running missio
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Yes, because wanting to play a game without some sociopath constantly ruining and interrupting it is being a "carebear." Give me a fucking break.
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Yes, it certainly makes for a nice change of pace.
EVE appeals to me as a role-player and someone who likes to be immersed in games I play because there the your actions in the world (and the rewards you earn in the world) don't feel overly contrived as they do in most MMOs. In EVE, there are a lot of ways you can make your fortune: join a non-Empire Alliance and enjoy the fruits o
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Well, yeah. Since EVE doesn't have any player classes, the role you play is your occputation which is your "class" of sorts. In WoW, sometimes class feels like little more than window dressing, and people think more in terms of "tank, healer or DPS," with class distinctions only becoming really important in certain tactical situations.
Re:ugh god (Score:5, Interesting)
It's not newbie friendly at all, in that it takes literally years of paying CCP your monthly fee in order to reach the point where you can fly the big ships that bring in the massive profits.
EveMon [battleclinic.com] will let you see how long it would take you and how much ISK (Eve money) it would cost you. Basically, I quit when I realized I'd get more enjoyment running a mining bot for two years while I was at work than I would if I were actually playing.
Parent
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Basically, I quit when I realized I'd get more enjoyment running a mining bot for two years while I was at work than I would if I were actually playing.
In that case, have I got a game for you: http://www.progressquest.com/ [progressquest.com]
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Big ships are not required for massive profits. I make billions of isk every month by simply studying the market and manipulating it. All that's required for that is a good Production Efficiency level (about a week to train to level 4), and optionally some trading skills. There are many, many ways to make isk in game, even for PVP players like me who have never bothered to try mining.
Unique... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Unique... (Score:5, Insightful)
Or you find yourself alone in a scary place and you team up. You start a militia and you maintain peace about yourself at the point of a well fueled missile barge.
If it's dangerous to wander out into the dangerous bits... form your own gang to survive. Soon your gang becomes a colony and then a fleet and then a nation... and suddently the dangerous bits are just home.
Parent
Death system (Score:5, Insightful)
I think a lot of this has to do with the price of death.
When you die, you loose your ship and that can hurt a lot. This causes players to think more before they act. It offeres a bit of suspense when one gets into a battle. No other game has this, and if the death system was not the way it was then EVE would crumble.
If you die and get your ship back for free, what's the point?
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If EA ever tries to buy EvE we'd best h
Re:Death system (Score:4, Interesting)
That's why I can't stand people who call for WoW like death systems....Hurray...you loose durability. Big deal right?
It brings no strategy or suspense to battles.
Parent
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When you die, you loose your ship and that can hurt a lot. This causes players to think more before they act. It offeres a bit of suspense when one gets into a battle. No other game has this, and if the death system was not the way it was then EVE would crumble
Since the price of death is so high in EVE, you never really get to see too much PVP. And when battles do occur, it's usually very lopsided. If your fleet leader is halfway intelligent, he doesn't engage in battles that would destroy half his Corp's ships, but doesn't hesitate to attack when he has the clear advantage. Sometimes there are large battles that are fun, but those are usually lag fests. It's disappointing when a PVP oriented game has such boring and flawed PVP.
I personally don't see the app
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Since the price of death is so high in EVE, you never really get to see too much PVP.
I don't know when you last played, but since the introduction of faction warfare, PvP is fairly easy to find, and you can get away with using small disposable ships if you want as well, because plenty of others are doing the same.
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Since the price of death is so high in EVE, you never really get to see too much PVP.
have you seen the killboards? in the time I wrote this post, billions of ISK got destroyed in the game because of PVP. that might sound like much for a 2 day old noob (or a player that never played EVE, but knows everything about how "impossible" it is to get startup capital) but in the grand scheme of things, it's nothing.
He's not a pirate! (Score:5, Funny)
He's infringing copyri... oh, I see.
Very well, carry on.
Life as outlaw... (Score:5, Funny)
Buy cheap ship, gather in groups.
Wait/look for ship you can take down fast to wander by.
Destroy ship, maybe pod the pilot.
Repeat.
Encounter force larger/better then your own.
Return to Station, go afk and watch a movie while they spend hours 'camping' you. You have a good time, and make people spend tedious hours watching your avatar in station.
Obligatory (Score:5, Funny)
Claims to be a pirate? (Score:3, Funny)
Yah? Does he pay CCP each month? If so, he's a soddin' carebear. Real pirates steal their accounts as well as their l00t.
piracy and eve (Score:3, Informative)
This is a tad over the top... (Score:2)
Criminal? Outlaw??
While most citizens in New Eden follow the rules society dictates, there are some free spirits who shun the status quo -- and the law -- and live on their own terms.
What law, exactly, are they shunning? It was my understanding that in EVE there really was no law. That the PvP was full-on and unrestricted.
Now, if I'm incorrect, and EVE has an FBI, Interpol, or the like, then this may be more worthwhile.
Otherwise, this may as well be a story about playing Horde in Alliance territory - just another player playing a game as it was intended.
BFD
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It was my understanding that in EVE there really was no law
Eve players have "Security Status". This number is used by the game to enforce certain rules; players with low Security Status cannot enter systems with high security rating, for instance. Players with very low Security Status are not avenged by NPC security forces when they are attacked. Low Security Status is also indicated visually to all players, and bounties may be placed on the head of a player below a certain Security Status. Security Status is altered by certain acts of aggression.
Keep in mind t
Re:This is a tad over the top... (Score:4, Informative)
Your corporation is at war with another corporation. You may then blast each other to bits any time any place.
You join a Faction (one of the 4 races). Then you may kill any member of an opposing faction any time any place. Not all factions hate each other.
Space is divied up in 0.0 to 1.0.
0.5-1.0 is patrolled by NPC's who will come and murder you if you attack another player. This takes time though. Suicide ganking is using throw away ships/pilots to kill a fat target before the authorities can kill you. Then you use a second alt comes in a picks up the loot from your targets wreckage.
0.1-0.4 Gate and station guns will attack you if you attack another player, but NPC ships will not respond to aggression, so pretty much its full-on anywhere not near a gate or station, but some ships are tough enough that can tank those guns so those areas are not safe either.
0.0 space. There is no law but what you make. Death comes swiftly here with big pointy teeth. This is the region where the big ships and big corps roam. Anyone may attack anyone else at anytime.
Lastly when you attack enough players your personal sec status drops. It goes down some when you attack another player, it goes down more if you blow up his ship, and it goes down alot if you murder him (blow up his escape pod). Once it's below -.5 you can be attacked by anyone, anywhere, anytime and the hi-sec space NPC's will be gunning for you as well..
There are other ways to be able to legally attack or kill other players. Stealing give you a 15 minute window to blow up the theif's ship. Murdering another player give that player 30 days to hunt your ass down and kill you.
Essentially no place is 100% safe, though most places are not 100% lethal either. There are ways of mitigating the risk, but even so the risk is always there.
This is what keeps Eve interesting.
Parent
Is it too late to start? (Score:5, Interesting)
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The biggest problem with EVE is that you have to be really committed to it. You can't just sit down and play by yourself a few hours. There's no picking up a PUG and doing something.
They have guilds they call 'Corps' that are generally very big, and they 'own' a certain section of space. If you join that Corp you are usually fairly safe in that area unless another corp comes in to attack. But the thing is, you can't go at anything alone. Or if you do, you'd better be able to run away fast.
The best way to im
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Competition (Score:3, Interesting)
If anyone is interested about the psychological aspects of competion-based games, I suggest to grab a copy of No Contest By Alfie Kohn:
Google Preview [google.com]
Makes a interesting case about the underlying stimulus for competition-type personalities. I often found interesting that PvP servers and games attract a specific type of personality, that book makes me feel better about myself in comparison to them (for the humor-impaired that was a joke related to the book).
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Stop! You had me at Ninjas...