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Ragnar Tornquist On Video Game Storytelling
Posted by
Soulskill
on Wed Aug 20, 2008 04:56 PM
from the once-upon-a-time dept.
from the once-upon-a-time dept.
Ragnar Tornquist is respected as one of the best storytellers in today's game industry. He's done work on Anarchy: Online, Dreamfall, and upcoming MMO The Secret World. Rock, Paper, Shotgun has a lengthy three-part interview with Tornquist about how good stories are crafted, how they interact with other aspects of the games, and what his preferences are for building a compelling character.
"We had all these characters who were on a journey of faith, and we said how can we ensure that this theme is carried through, and have a clear view of how their journeys happen. So we said, every single major character had to fit into this model. Everybody starts out at the top. Faith can be anything — it can be religion, it can be a belief in yourself, in your abilities, in the work you do. As we face challenge, there's a process where we have loss of faith. It can be a minor thing: thinking one day, 'God, I suck at what I do. I can't do this.' And a lot of people after that point turn themselves around, face those problems, challenge them and they conquer them, and they say, 'Screw that, I am good at what I do.' I think most happy people live in this loop."
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Who is Ragnar Tournqist? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Who is Ragnar Tournqist? (Score:5, Funny)
Ragnar Tourqist (20 April 1889 - 30 April 1945) was an Austrian-born German politician who led the National Socialist German Workers Party (Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei NSDAP), more commonly known as the Nazi Party. He was Chancellor of Germany (1933-1945) and Führer of Germany (1934-1945).
Tourqist was a decorated veteran of World War I who achieved leadership of the Nazi Party in Weimar Germany. Following his imprisonment after a failed coup, he gained support by promoting nationalism, antisemitism and anti-communism with charismatic oratory and propaganda. The Nazis executed or assassinated many of their opponents, restructured the state economy, rearmed the armed forces (Wehrmacht) and established a totalitarian and fascist dictatorship. Tourqist pursued a foreign policy with the declared goal of seizing Lebensraum ("living space"). The German invasion of Poland in 1939 caused the British and French Empires to declare war on Germany, leading to the outbreak of World War II in Europe.
The Axis Powers occupied most of continental Europe and parts of Asia and Africa. Eventually the Allies defeated the Wehrmacht and Schutzstaffel (SS). By 1945, Germany was in ruins. Tourqist's bid for territorial conquest and racial subjugation caused the deaths of tens of millions of people, including the systematic genocide of an estimated six million Jews, not including various additional "undesirable" populations, in what is known as the Holocaust.
During the final days of the war in 1945, as Berlin was being invaded by the Red Army, Tourqist married Eva Braun. Less than 24 hours later, the two committed suicide in the Führerbunker.
Goodwin, eat your heart out!
Parent
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Wikipedia (Score:2, Funny)
Can I cite this comment as a source on Wikipedia?
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Aaargh! You know who else liked to screw up the spelling of Godwin's [wikipedia.org] name? Hitler ...errr... Tourqist, that's who!
(Now who's gonna be the first to call me a spelling Nazi? ;-)
Biff McLargehuge? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Biff McLargehuge? (Score:4, Informative)
No, Ragnar is real. His work on The Longest Journey has made him a legend in the adventure gaming community. He's sort of the Sid Meier of adventure games.
Parent
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One game does not a Sid Meier make. What other adventure games has he worked on?
Re:Biff McLargehuge? (Score:4, Informative)
Parent
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I meant, "new to me". And Super Mario 64 has been lots of fun so far. The levels are small enough and the rewards frequent enough that it never really feels like a chore to play. I've had more trouble sticking it out through Rayman 3 actually. I just got the N64 in May, and I've been really impressed by it. I'm looking forward to playing the Zelda's for sure. F-Zero X kicks ass, Rogue Squadron kicks ass, Star Fox 64 kicks ass, Mario Kart 64 kicks ass. Oh I've got Paper Mario too, but that's a little fur
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You must be young.
Star Trek: The Kobayashi Alternative was published WAY before SM64.
Way back in 1985. Yes, there were games in '85.
Games never get too old. They just get pushed further down the list... and the list never gets too long.
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Like I said, it's on the queue. But maybe I'll bump it up a few spots.
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Heck, if you want me to list only PC games, then here's another 10 better than TLJ:
Max Payne, Kings Quest III, Planescape: Torment, The Witcher, Warcraft III, Knights of the Old Republic, Neverwinter Nights, Fallout, Baldur's Gate, Starcraft
Thanks for this list. I see a few I haven't played yet.
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For some reason I thought he was a Supreme Court Justice.
Be like the squirrel (Score:3, Funny)
When problems overwhelm us and sadness smothers us, where do we find the will and the courage to countinue?
...he thought, "If that squirrel
can take care of himself
with the harsh winter coming on so can I."
well the answer may come in the caring voice of a friend a chance encounter with a book or from a personal faith.
for Ragnar, help came from her faith but it also came from a squirrel.
"Once i broke my problems into small pieces I was able to carry them, just like those acorns, one at a time."
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Turn it around! (Score:5, Funny)
God, I suck at what I do. I can't do this.
But then I hit 'submit' and my post is modded +1 Funny.
All is well again.
Compelling characters? (Score:3, Insightful)
Dreamfall's three primary characters were a washed-up, gothy 'heroine' from the previous game, a generically plucky artist, and a generically honorable warrior who discovers that his government is corrupt. They inhabit a story that wanders at best, is never resolved in any way, and cuts off at not just one, but three separate cliffhangers.
Re:Compelling characters? (Score:4, Insightful)
There's a saying where all stories ever written can be summed up as man versus man, man versus environment, or man versus himself. And while this is true, it doesn't make all stories worthless.
I personally enjoyed Anarchy Online's story quite a bit and found it a unique telling with much depth, mystery and imagination even though it was a "rehash."
Parent
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There is one other one too. I'm scraping my worthless memory for High School English class remnants, but all I can find is used bong water and empty beer cans.
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In which category do you include High School Musical?
Re:Compelling characters? (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
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Not every story can be "Dune", my friend.
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a washed-up, gothy 'heroine' from the previous game
Um, yeah, that would be April Ryan, the main character of the series. She didn't start out washed up or cynical, and her character arc is very well written to get her to that point. And, um... Not gothy. I say this as a recovering goth myself.
...a generically plucky artist...
Let's see... Zoe has a failed relationship, a strained friendship, family problems, and is being sucked into a corporate/technological/mystical conspiracy... Yeah, I guess she was pretty plucky, considering. Also, she is a doppelganger of April Ryan in the first
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I cannot fucking believe people are still trying to pull this shit. How about you go and tell all the film, music, book, game and art critics in the world that they have to drop everything they're doing because they can't do any better? Of course, in a sane world (population: not you) it doesn't take a game designer to point out that, say, a quest is broken or that the voice acting is horrendous.
Best MMO name ever. (Score:5, Funny)
That reminds me... (Score:3)
If I wanted a compelling story, I'd read a book. There's only a few million of them already in exsistence, the majority of which were written by people whose talents compare to the best video game writers the same way Kobe Bryant's penis might compare to that of a poorly endowed tit mouse. If enduring 90 minutes of CGI cut scenes dubbed with pornography grade voice acting sounds exciting to you, I suggest you immediately navigate your web browser to the neighborhood torrent site and start downloading something called a movie. Any of them really, because apparently you're very easily satisfied.
:D Confession: I really liked the Xenosaga series
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That all ignores the fact that the interactivity of a game leads to a greater immersion, and a better experience than passively watching a movie or reading a book.
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Well it should lead to greater immersion, but in my years of playing MMOs it is rarely true. I've felt immersed in the action of a good battle, but almost never the storyline. The one exception is in EVE Online, and the story wasn't something written by the dev team, it was the fact that my character there has an actual story and that story actually effected the world of the game. Being involved in a war between two al
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The kicks you get from good storytelling in an adventure game are very different indeed from those acquired while devising a backstory for your MMO character.
I love EVE and I love devising backstory for my character, but when you find the treasure of Big Whoop, all bets are off
Ach.
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I'm sorry I thought we were talking about MMOs. The first link in the article was discussing MMOs but the second and third were discussing adventure games. I find that an odd grouping because, as you point out, the kinds of story telling in the two genres is very different. Even in Slashdot blurb the genres are mixed.
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That all ignores the fact that the interactivity of a game leads to a greater immersion, and a better experience than passively watching a movie or reading a book.
Depends, in by far the most games interaction is what ruins the immersion instead of creating it. Simple example: a character dies in a movie, you cry or feel sad, a character dies in a videogame, you feel annoyed and hit reload and try again. Not exactly very immersive. That is also why by far most games these days tell all their plot points in precreated cutscenes, sometimes these days you get a little bit of interaction like in Half Life 2, but its still a precreated cutscene.
Now there are of course exce
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What a load of shit. There's no reason why a video game can't have a story as good as those found in literature and film, and no reason why we should, apparently, reject such games whenever they appear. As a medium, video games are perfectly suited to storytelling, and even enable things that are flat out impossible in literature and film.
Mixed feelings (Score:5, Interesting)
I have mixed feelings about Tornquist. He created The Longest Journey [longestjourney.com] which was absolutely amazing, particularly for its story. My favorite game ever. Vivid, detailed characterization, intricate world-building, compelling plot. The tech wasn't impressive (3D figures superimposed on 2D backdrops), but the story was so great that I didn't care.
Then came the sequel, Dreamfall. Oh. My. God. The game was a lot prettier, a good deal more tech glitz. But the UI was atrocious (horrible camera control, unplayable on PC without a USB controller), gratuitous fighting scenes built in (complete with lousy combat controls), and the puzzles (such as they were) didn't make sense. Worse, the plot was incoherent at many crucial points, and the main character (Chloe) completely failed to engage my sympathy or even interest. I got to the end and was sorry she hadn't died permanently somewhere along the way.
Dreamfall had the most severe case of sequel-itis I've ever seen. The original was amazing, astounding, wonderful, and sold a bazillion copies. Then the corporate types took over and threw a ton of cash at the sequel, and it sucked hard. The only comparable thing I can think of? Indiana Jones -- Raiders of the Lost Ark was terrific, and Temple of Doom sucked so hard that nobody ever plays it on TV, not even at 4 AM to fill up time. That's how Dreamfall was.
I have hopes for the third TLJ installment -- after all, The Last Crusade rescued Indiana Jones from one-hit wonder status. It could happen again. But then I think of how the Matrix series went downhill, and fear.
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You mean Zoe, not Chloe.
My feelings are mixed when it comes to Dreamfall. There were some really beautiful and emotional scenes that nearly brought tears to my eyes, but I have to agree that the story felt disjointed. I also didn't like that nearly everyone important ended up dead in the end with absolutely no resolution. The ending made the entire game feel redundant, as if the entire adventure was all for nothing.
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You mean Zoe, not Chloe.
Yeah, that's the one. Well, I said she failed to engage my interest. See? I didn't even remember her name right. ^_^;
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Unplanned sequels usually suck. The originals usually work for reasons that are difficult to pin down or quantify. But people try to recreate this success by guessing what the magic ingredients were, and it fails badly. Especially when you get different people involved. So if you get the ingredients wrong and try to recreate the cake...
Sometimes part of what made something work wasn't the writer, but the editors. So on the sequel the writer who now has a lot more respect and clout gets away with less e
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Not the case for Dreamfall. I've RTFA, and Ragnar explains that TLJ was unedited (as he was his own boss then), allowing things like swearing and full frontal male nudity, while Dreamfall was edited/censored. He mentions that time limits affected the gameplay, but not the major elements of the story.
Re:Mixed feelings (Score:4, Interesting)
Parent
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The problem with Dreamfall was that the story as a whole simply made very little sense, maybe things will be cleared up in Dreamfall:Chapters, but Dreamfall taken by itself is really weird. The Faith subplot itself gets resolved ok, but the whole April subplot feels very out of place, half the game you spend to find her and then you find her and nothing happens, the whole visit to Acadia doesn't really accomplishes a thing and is more a tour-guide through nice places that you already new from TLJ then somet
Hey, Ragnar (Score:5, Insightful)
You know what's an important part of storytelling?
FINISHING THE FREAKING STORY
Like, when you've gotten through the backstory and the character development, and you get to the first big climax, the cliffhanger where you have the audience wondering which of their heroes will live and which will die?
That is NOT the right time to roll the credits. And if there are a half dozen important subplots that haven't even reached their climax yet? Then it is DEFINITELY NOT the right time to roll the credits.
Oh, who am I kidding. I could turn this rant into a treatise, but I know I'm still going to buy The Longest Journey 3 (or Dreamfall: Chapters, or whatever it gets called), even if it doesn't come out for another five years. And he knows people like me are still going to buy it, even if it's only sold for two hundred dollars with an uncrackable installer EULA which can only be accepted by submitting a video recording of the prospective customer saying "Please, Mr. Tornquist, I humbly beg for permission to play your sequel."
Plenty of good video-game storytelling around (Score:4, Insightful)
There have been decent game stories around for years now - going back at least as far as Ultima IV. We've also been seeing them much more frequently recently. I must confess, though, I wouldn't have ranked this guy or the games he's put out right up there at the top of the list. As others have said, the Longest Journey was great, Dreamfell was weak and Anarchy Online... oh come on, is that really the best you can do? I'm not sure about individuals, but there are plenty of developers around in the industry who can do it better.
Bioware are obviously very good at crafting stories, but I think Planescape Torment is their only real masterpiece, from a story point of view. Their other games have had stories ranging from the great to the truly excellent (KOTOR and BG2 in particular), but PST was the only one to really go beyond the category of "fantastically well-done, but nevertheless formulaic fantasy/sci-fi fare".
Square-Enix are, if anything, even better. Their heavily cutscene-based style isn't to all tastes (though it is to mine), but they've gone beyond the point of just writing good stories and to the kind of level where, when they're on form, their games have well developed structures and themes. Look at Final Fantasy IX (not my favorite installment) and note how the game has theatre scenes at the beginning, the intermission, and the end. Also note how the two little jester guys act as a chorus throughout most of the game. Again, in Final Fantasy X, there's a consistent theme of "death" running throughout the entire game. Yes, it has bright and colourful graphics and a few irritating characters (yes, Wakka, I'm looking at you), but almost every character back-story, side-quest and main plot element in the game revolves around death.
Persona 3 really impressed me from the story point of view. Not because its "go to school and save the world in your spare time" plot is new or exciting, but because it structured itself so as to do a really good job of capturing the feel and structure of a 26 episode anime series (Shakugan no Shana was the one that leaped to mind for me, but other parallels are equally valid) in the format of a game.
I didn't rate Valve's storytelling in Half-Life 2 or its expansion - I just can't buy into the mute Gordon Freeman as a protagonist in that setting. Portal, however, had an absolutely fantastic minimalist story, told through some really clever techniques.
Finally, after a really, really dodgy start with Blue Dragon, I was really impressed with the level of the storytelling in Lost Odyssey. I'm not talking about the main plot here, which is a fairly standard steampunk affair (with heavy inspiration from Final Fantasy VIII). Rather, I'm talking about the dreams you unlocked throughout the game. These were nothing more than animated text, on a lightly illustrated background, with a couple of minimalist sound-effects, yet they did a fantastic job at bringing the game world alive and building up Kaim's character far more effectively than any traditional device would have.
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Bioware are obviously very good at crafting stories, but I think Planescape Torment is their only real masterpiece, from a story point of view. Their other games have had stories ranging from the great to the truly excellent (KOTOR and BG2 in particular), but PST was the only one to really go beyond the category of "fantastically well-done, but nevertheless formulaic fantasy/sci-fi fare".
I feel compelled to point out that in every single example you've cited of Bioware crafting a good story, the underlying framework was already in place. The Planescape, Forgotten Realms and Star Wars 'worlds' in which these stories unfold were all well established long before Bioware came to the party.
You also appear to judge a story by how well it's presented. Given the medium, fair enough, but bear in mind that there can be a large disconnect between the person(s) responsible for the storyline and those t
Regarding Dreamfall's story (Score:3, Interesting)
However, I have one serious criticism: for every minute of cutscene, there were maybe two minutes of gameplay - and this high level of hand-holding increased towards the end. Pretty much the entire last 20-30 minutes of the game was cut-scene, and I quickly lost the sense of immersion and attachment I'd tried to build up.
Seriously, there was a small handful of creative problem-solving set pieces, and most of the rest was either cut-scene or entirely prescriptive "gameplay". Given that it wasn't a long game, it ended up feeling as though someone had written a script for a film, and then tried to cram a game in the edges. Which was a shame, because the engine and dynamics were superb.
So while I won't criticise Tornquist's ability to tell a good story or create a compelling character, I would seriously question his authority on having the story "interact with other aspects of the game".
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I think the idea is good, but misstated. It would be better to say that not believing in yourself will lead to failure. I.E., confidence is necessary for success, but it alone won't be enough. It's a catalyst that helps skill, determination, and talent act more effectively.
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Hope is not necessary for success.
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But lack of hope is an impediment.