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New Racing Simulation Distances Itself From Gamers
Posted by
Soulskill
on Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:43 AM
from the serious-business dept.
from the serious-business dept.
waderoush writes "In an unusual move that could alienate a large segment of potential customers, iRacing.com, an online racing simulation company that opened its site to the public on August 26, is calling its system a 'driver development tool' that isn't designed for PC or console gamers. 'We don't think of ourselves as a game company,' says one exec. 'World of Warcraft has a real appeal...But our system is more serious, frankly. If you are serious about racing, our product is for you, because getting on a [simulated] track with a full field of other drivers and racing against them safely involves as much commitment and time investment as if you went to racing school.' In fact, to distinguish its system from MMOs, the company has come up with a new acronym to describe its simulation: MMIS, for 'massively multiparticipant Internet sport.'"
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Can you say publicity stunt? (Score:5, Funny)
Come on. Oh we are too good to be called a game, but come play it. Give me a break.
Re:Can you say publicity stunt? (Score:5, Insightful)
You make fun of it, but it's a real issue.
Have you ever been in game development? If so, what was the reaction of people outside the IT biz when you told them you're making games?
Creating games is usually a whole lot more complicated and requires a lot more knowledge and experience than the average business application, due to quite a few reasons. You need considerable mathematic knowledge, you need(ed) good assembler skills, you need to know a lot about the APIs you're working with, your code is incredibly time critical so optimization is a core issue for you, etc. All that and more does not apply at all to business apps. I've seen people in business app development that went straight out of some sort of evening school and were put behind a project to create productive code, with little care about stability, safety or reliability. Some bozo at Q&A will do that.
Yet when you talk with people outside the biz, the guy doing business apps will certainly get a lot more credibility than you, who're "only" making toys.
I can see why a company does not want to be associated with "toys", that their product is a "serious" racing simulation. Whether it's a marketing stunt is debatable. It certainly is. I just doubt it's just to get some publicity. I can very well see why a company would want to put some distance between themselves and the "toys".
Parent
Re:Can you say publicity stunt? (Score:5, Insightful)
And I thought they were just trying to appeal to the elitist instinct in many gamers.
Parent
Re:Can you say publicity stunt? (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
I think it's more likely (or at least I hope so) that their game is just very realistic and that most 'gamers' wouldn't even enjoy it anyway. I've been playing GT: Prologue over the last week on 'professional' physics mode as opposed to the default 'standard' physics. While it is still fun, it can also be highly frustrating compared to most driving games. You have to be very controlled and sensible, just as with real racing.
In some cases (especially with the Ford GT on 'sports' class tyres rather than racin
Re:Can you say publicity stunt? (Score:5, Informative)
Creating games is usually a whole lot more complicated and requires a lot more knowledge and experience than the average business application
I would prefer to say different rather than harder. Creating business apps also requires some skills that are not found in games, for example : disentangling the business rules, interacting with users, making sense of the 20 year old system which consists of cobol-programs, jcl, ... all written by 20 different people which aren't there anymore, and you're stuck with a database which is a melting pot of 3 older systems ...
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
As someone who has done both, I can vouch for business apps being heaps easier to code than even the simplest game you could imagine.
Disentangling the rules: Yes. One person. Often, not even that. It depends on what exactly you're doing and how complicated the system is you're working with, but generally you need one person, if that, to "translate" the requirements of the business people to the requirements of the IT people. From there on, it's straight coding, and easy coding to boot.
Interacting with users
Re:Can you say publicity stunt? (Score:5, Insightful)
You see this elsewhere in the gaming world. In europe, there is a huge market for historical simulations for obsessed history buffs. They could tell you how heavy a particular shell fired in WW1 was, how long it took to forge an average pike, death rates in small vs large villages in the renissance, etc. And of course there are a lot of different names to these things (historical simulations, etc) to try to differentiate these from the more casual "games" people play.
In America, we have groups of people obsessed with flight simulators. These are both the people who take 8-hours on a saturday to fly from Boston Logan to SFO in their kitchen, and the more esoteric people who take 3 months to fly a moon mission. Sure, you could call Microsoft Flight Simulator a game, but it is more accurately described as either a Simulator, or a Borderline Creepy Obsession.
Calling a game which requires that kind of creepy dedication a "sport" doesn't seem all that far off from a categorization standpoint, and it helps them to connect their game with people looking for that kind of thing. I can't comment on the game itself, but this positioning seems understandable.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
It's the same thing as, say, Microsoft Flight Simulator as compared to Crimson Skies. Both are "flying simulations," but Crimson Skies is obviously a game, while Flight Sim is designed to run as accurately and realistically as possible.
I don't see why there's any confusion here at all. What they're offering is a racing simulation that isn't designed to be a video game, it's designed to be as realistic as possible. Even "realistic" racing sims on consoles aren't all that realistic if you look at how they han
Re:Can you say publicity stunt? (Score:4, Insightful)
Your probably on to something here. I'm betting they want to make this distinction early on so when the start banning people who cause crashes or drive recklessly, they can say see, I told you.
Parent
Re:Can you say publicity stunt? (Score:4, Insightful)
You're on the right track, but I wouldn't use MSFS in the comparison. It is still mostly a game.
I draw this distinction, because MSFS uses static profiles to draw the physical reactions of their models. This has the drawback of limiting the model to known configurations and conditions. They have a Cessna 182 modeled very closely, but the realism goes out the window if you try to alter the model to add a spoiler or clip a bay off the wings.
I would have used XPlane against Crimson Skies. XPlane builds a dynamic model based on pre-generated airfoil data. Extend or move the wings around and the plane's behavior changes accordingly. XPlane began life as on guys attempt to create a simulator to save him money in pursuing an IFR certificate.
However, in either case, your are correct. The realism based programs don't include such things as guns or targets. It's not a game, as much as a simulator. Go to an XPlane fly-in and continously fly around where you're not supposed to and they will eventually kick you off the server. Things are tied closely to the real world. I expect that this racing simulator is similar.
Parent
Re:Can you say publicity stunt? (Score:4, Funny)
Pubwiictstund..
No, I can't. Damnit! There goes your funny mod.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I remember buying the original Need For Speed 'game' and enjoying the relatively realistic simulation they pulled off. Ever since then every game out there has been about arcade style play. I do think there is a market for those of us that want simulator style racing/driving games, and why not make it an online community thing.
The new acronym they came up with to describe it, now that was just stupid. But perhaps it helped ge
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Re:Can you say publicity stunt? (Score:5, Informative)
iRacing is simply the MMO business model applied to the racing genre. Sadly a bunch of my race sim buddies have fallen for Dave Kaemmer's bullshit and subscribed. However the reviews I'm hearing from folk are primitive graphics etc...
Papyrus know how to do racing physics. Grand Prix Legends is ten years old and still holds it's own on the current crop of sims from ISI, Simbin etc... But this just screams of publicity stunt. It's basically a subscription based ranking system. It's kinda like a virtual SCCA.
Dave Kaemmer stuck a stake through the heart of the NR2003 community when iRacing first came into being as First Racing, and threatened a bunch of folk with lawsuits, actually DID take Tim McArthur to court if I recall (ultimately settled out of court), just so they could reuse code from NR2003 for this thing. Apparently modding a now five year old video game was somehow damaging their business. They changed their name to iRacing after all the bad publicity of threatening their potential customers with legal action.
I'll stick to sims made by DECENT companies who don't screw their users over, thanks.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Howdy.
Try out any title made by Simbin on the PC: GTR, GT Legends, GTR2, and RACE.
GTR is FIA GT1 and GT2 cars, like in Lemans.
GTR2 is more of the same.
GT Legends is FIA GTC65, GTC76 and TC65 classes in a game.
RACE I believe is WTCC racing.
They are very realistic and have a pretty active community. They also support a clutch pedal and H-pattern shifter setup, if you have one.
Disclaimer: I don't work for Simbin, I'm just an avid racing sim gamer.
Does it come with Hooked on Phonix too? (Score:3, Funny)
I like it! (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
same here.. although looks like they are going to rape the money out of you
A better headline: (Score:5, Insightful)
It's clear that this is a game, they're just targeting it to people who normally sneer at "gamers", and who have a lot of disposable income.
Re:A better headline: (Score:5, Informative)
Yeah. From the article, it's a $20 monthly or $156 annual subscription. THEN, to get anything more than absolutely shitty cars (Pontiac Solstice??) and shitty tracks you have to buy your way up.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Solstice is an oddball choice. Miata would have been a better one for that class of car. Looks like they're associated with Skip Barber Racing Schools, which leans towards using Mazdas. They're based out of Laguna Seca, which is a Mazda sponsered/owned track (not sure on the exact ownership status), and they use Miatas in their racing program. I see they also have the Formual Skip Barber 2000 in their car list.
Tracks look like they're heavily set on American tracks. Silverstone is the only European track th
Re: (Score:2)
Very interested...
But i want to know more about buying the upgrades before i get wrapped up in a new game of this level. Seems to be zero info. $2, $20, $$$ at least they could say from $x to $y but it seems you have to plunk down at least $20 to even find out :(
Re:A better headline: (Score:4, Funny)
THEN, to get anything more than absolutely shitty cars (Pontiac Solstice??) and shitty tracks you have to buy your way up.
Well, as this is a simulation and not a game, I expect you will be able to sell advertising on your rig to make up for the extra purchasing costs.
-l
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
I'm not sure they're full of themselves so much as trying a marketing gimmick they know to be a gimmick. So maybe it's that they think the public is full of themselves, which some of the racing fans probably are.
Many games try to claim they're not part of a genre. The guys who made metroid prime 3 were trying to say it was an entirely new genre, a first-person adventure, not a first person shooter. I mean, sure, you shoot in it, but this is an adventure, not like doom or anything. Of course, this was mo
Re: (Score:2)
Many games try to claim they're not part of a genre.
They certainly are part of a genre, but a genre which pretty much died out years ago and was never existent on consoles to begin with, we used to call those games 'simulations'. You might remember the kind of 'games' that tries to make things primary real, not making them primary fun (i.e. no leveling up, no primary focus on graphic, no unlockables, etc.). Its pretty obvious why they try to distance themselves from the rest, since most of what qualifies as 'simulations' these days is really pretty laughable
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New MMO startup is completely full of itself, wants to sell you overpriced hardware.
As opposed to /. pundits so full of themselves. Well, we know the drill.
Guys (Score:4, Interesting)
Stop taking yourself so seriously and lighten up a little bit. Requiring a subscription and a racing wheel should be enough to weed out the mad 1337 gamers. Do you really think all the WoW people are going to suddenly poo their pants over a racing game?
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Might be worth a try since it seems to limit the idiots a tad. If i can ever get my wheel calibrated correctly.
I wonder how they 'require' a wheel? Does it check? That implies only certain wheels. Mine is not really name brand and the company only does profession sims now and bailed on the retail altogether. And do i have to actually use it? lol, faster with joystick usually :)
Funny timing, i just tried out my wheel last night after a year.
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Stop taking yourself so seriously and lighten up a little bit. Requiring a subscription and a racing wheel should be enough to weed out the mad 1337 gamers. Do you really think all the WoW people are going to suddenly poo their pants over a racing game?
Um, I figure 1337 gamers would be the only ones interested in their game. Why? Quite simple. Who else already has a racing wheel? Um, only 1337 gamers. I don't even have a racing wheel, and I have a few car games.
Actually, I'm curious if any racing people/fan
Not a game. So? (Score:3, Insightful)
Now, that silly MMIS acronym? That's 100% publicity stunt.
Dissenting opinion (oh no) (Score:2)
A game is a game is a game... whether you call it a simulation or a VE or a VR...
Or maybe not.
I've had the opportunity to go on a track a couple times, and have also driven a couple interesting cars. My take is that the games are really a lot of fun, but don't quite give the same experience as, you know, real life. For example, accelerate hard from a stop and some cars will torque steer, some start to fishtail, some compensate electronically. When I shift gears I often go more by the sound of the engine rat
Sport? (Score:5, Funny)
If driving in a hot car for 5 hours @188MPH isn't considered a sport... ...sitting in front of your computer for 5 hours DEFINITELY IS.
Simulated Racing Track (Score:4, Insightful)
If you are serious about racing, our product is for you, because getting on a [simulated] track with a full field of other drivers and racing against them safely involves as much commitment and time investment as if you went to racing school.
I don't know about you, but nothing gets my adrenaline running like feeling those virtual G's I pull when taking sharp turns. I mean, seriously, that shit is more realistic than driving my sports car on the open roads.
Similar to my own project (Score:3, Funny)
I like how these guys think. I too am producing a serious online simulation project that isn't really aimed at lowly "gamers".
My "iShitting" bowel movement simulation is an exciting new way to experience the joy of a good crap with thousands of friends from all around the world. iShitting will allow serious shitters to compete in such areas as Stench, Log Size, Color, and Composition (with bonus points awarded for visible undigested food, gum, etc). World of Warcraft has a real appeal... but seriously, folks, do you think that somebody who pretends to be an elf has what it takes to produce (and survive) the truly gargantuan masterpieces that professional shitters are famous for? Get real.
For the sake of realism, iShitting requires a full-size USB or Bluetooth toilet controller. iShitting will not support any gamepad, keyboard and mouse, wireless wand and nunchuk, Spaceball, trackball, joystick or paddles.
Like the good folks at iRacing, I also feel that iShitting should not be called a simple MMO. I have devised my own clever acronym that captures all that iShitting is: MMSGBMBMSOPF (Massively Multishitter Stinky Gigantic Brown Messy Bowel Movement Simulated Online Production Facility).
Re:Similar to my own project (Score:4, Insightful)
Like the good folks at iRacing, I also feel that iShitting should not be called a simple MMO. I have devised my own clever acronym that captures all that iShitting is: MMSGBMBMSOPF (Massively Multishitter Stinky Gigantic Brown Messy Bowel Movement Simulated Online Production Facility).
Hey, that's neat, it's an acronym and an onomatopoeia.
Parent
Why so Serious? (Score:4, Funny)
Oh, so it takes less time than actually playing WoW.
Sounds good! (Score:2)
For those of us who WANT true simulations, this is a very good thing. There are few simulations out there, but a lot of games.
Now, if only they'd come out with something similar for flight sims...
As opposed to? (Score:2)
And of course spending thousands of hours behind a joystick to learn to pilot a 747 in Microsoft Flight Sims and do it properly, is not the same.
Personally I won't play this. For my money, if I'm racing, I'd rather shoot some pedestrians, or run them down, and have t
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I guess it is the same reason people rent porn. C'mon, who would rent porn that is realistic with normal/ugly people
WTF? (Score:5, Insightful)
"because getting on a [simulated] track with a full field of other drivers and racing against them safely involves as much commitment and time investment as if you went to racing school"
So you truley believe that:
buying a $50 USB steering wheel
paying $10/month for your racing game
racing from the comfort of your home in your underwear
the biggest fear of dying is malnutrition
Equates to:
renting a $200,000 racecar or using your own car
flying or driving to a racetrack and renting it for $50-$1000
suiting up with flameretardant clothes, full face helmet, full body restraints
feeling G forces, pure adrenaline, and the fear of bursting into flames at any moment
Of course, why didn't I see it!
Life for Speed (Score:3, Informative)
There's an excellent racing simulator out there already; Live for Speed [lfs.net]. I was impressed by it's realism, cars handle as expected. They've modeled suspensions well and the game even accounts for tire flex. There are guys out there who've set up cars specifically for drifting and that's pretty much all they do. If you've got a controller that supports it you can even play with a clutch pedal.
It also scales up nicely to high resolutions, and it performs well. I had it running at 2560x1024 across two monitors and it ran consistently at 50-60fps on a 3ghz P4 with a Radeon 9800 Pro.
Where the game is likely to disappoint is in the lack of cars. Most of the cars are inspired by actual models but not the real thing and the tracks aren't based on actual courses. Although they did manage to get approval to include a BMW Sauber F1 car in the game. That car is impressive.
Contrast that with Gran Turismo which has a huge library of actual cars. Although despite the amount of work Sony supposedly has put into those games I've never been impressed by the physics and even worse, the AI.
So I'm curious about iRacing but not yet impressed. And I can't say I'm keen about all the oval tracks and the Nascar leanings.
So let's review (Score:4, Informative)
1) iRacing buys rights/code/everthing related to NASCAR Racing 2003, Sierra/Papyrus's final great NASCAR sim.
2) They then chase off a lot of modders for the game (who were making custom tracks, etc), threatening legal action etc etc. (see: http://forum.tmcarthur.net/viewtopic.php?t=52) After meeting resistance, their lawyers presumably move on to more productive activities, like kicking puppies.
3) Now, years later, they finally get around to releasing a new "racing simulation" based on what's now 6 year old code. And they want people to pay out the bum for it.
4) rFactor is probably better anyway.
Good luck with that, guys.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
"Hey this is great! This game sounds like an A-Hole magnet! Consequently, that means less A-Holes in other games, and more fun for the rest of us!"
Actually this 'non-game' seems targeted at the sort that believes putting an i in front of the name magically makes it superior, along with the people who use it. Perhaps 'i-Holes' would be a more accurate expression.
Re: (Score:2)
They coulda called it eRacing.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
I think that's supposed to be Racing v2.0 or someshit.
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How?
Re: (Score:2)
No doubt the software can be run with any device that shows up as a game controller in Windows.
But a wheel-and-pedals controller will likely be far easier to learn than using a joystick and keyboard combo...
I'm currently flying helicopter sims so I don't crash a $500 RC heli, and the one sim that allows you to map controls to the keyboard was completely unflyable in that configuration. A two stick game pad was better, but still nothing like a purpose-made controller that mimics the RC controller.
If the sof