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Gamers Are Fitter (and Sadder) Than You Think
Posted by
CmdrTaco
on Thu Sep 18, 2008 07:50 AM
from the crying-on-a-treadmill dept.
from the crying-on-a-treadmill dept.
missb writes "According to NewScientist.com, online gamers are no 'couch potatoes'. US researchers quizzed players of the role-playing game EverQuest II, and found adult gamers to be in better physical condition than the average American. The downside, however, was the gamers reported more cases of depression and substance abuse than their compatriots."
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Erm... (Score:5, Funny)
And we know the results are accurate, because they're working with a demographic famous for honest and forthright self-disclosure.
IOW: DUH!
Re:Erm... (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Erm... (Score:5, Interesting)
Parent
Re:Erm... (Score:5, Informative)
They're not in better shape, they've just starving a bit more than the average US citizen.
When I considered myself a "gamer" (Q1CTF) I was a Division I athlete attending a state university with ready access to tons of junk food and recreational enhancements that I readily consumed in greater amounts than I could even again. But because I was in college, and working out twice a day 5.5x a week, I was in great shape. I have a feeling that while the age range for those that consider themselves "gamers" is widening, the majority of people are still HS and college aged kids who have a bit more of an active lifestyle than the rest of us that work in some boring office tower all day and then retire home for an evening of various PC or console games.
Parent
Re:Erm... (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Erm... (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm a relatively happy and healthy (not athletic, but 6'4"/185lb), and I play MMOs mostly to socialize, not hide. Some of my old friends from high school play who I haven't actually seen in person for 12 years, so its a nice way to get together and hang out, especially when distance and schedules keep us from meeting in person that often. Probably still healthier, since we'd probably be meeting in the local pub.
If your definition of gaming includes the idea of hiding, then you have an unhealthy relationship with games. I've been playing video games since I was 6, and using the internet since I was eight, these are increasingly just becoming a way of life, much like television and books, to an increasing amount of the population. Is watching 2 hours of TV after work escapism? Is reading a novel? What about a nice solitary hike (not as exercise, but just to blow the stink off)? All of these are somewhat escapist, I suppose, but not necessarily unhealthy when taken in moderation. All of them have about the same value, and the same purpose.
Though I admit, sometimes I use both the hike and the games as an escape mechanism, not often, but sometimes they make for a good, cheap, vacation from stress. If I still read much fiction, it too would be a good mini-vacation, but sadly I don't think technical manuals and philosophy tomes are very relaxing.
As in all things, moderation is key, and your relationship with whatever activity. I've seen people be far more self-destructive with exercise than I have with gaming or reading. To be honest, I find sports more unhealthy than gaming most the time, since it is MORE stressful to the participants.
Parent
Re:Erm... (Score:4, Interesting)
It's really not just a weight thing. I'm extremely thin (to the point where most people would probably think I'm anorexic) yet I hover somewhere between depressed and horrendously bored 95% of the time. I don't touch MMOs but I've certainly spent my fair share of time and then some playing games, though I'm mostly just writing code these days. It's really a more generic social issue - I've got a 300lb gamer-obsessive friend who's always having a blast, even when there's not a controller in his hands. I'm still trying to figure out his trick.
Point being it's not just you, and it's certainly not because of being overweight. I had a neighbor who was suicidal and he was quite healthy, physically at least. I'm not going to be the guy that gives out sage advice on the subject because even if I know it would help I won't/can't follow it myself, probably for the same reasons you wouldn't follow it either (an "it wouldn't help" attitude, at a very high level; though it goes much deeper than that)
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Re:Erm... (Score:5, Funny)
I feel sorry for those people that don't drink.
When they get up in the morning, that is the best they're gonna feel ALL DAY.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Life is pretty boring though if you don't go to excess occasionally though.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Moderation in all things -- including moderation.
Re:Erm... (Score:5, Interesting)
You're not kidding. I can't count the meals I've missed because I wanted "just one more turn!" at Civilization.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Hmm... if I go by the people I know that play WoW (sorry, I don't know any EQ2 players - Guild Wars yes, Conan yes, but the majority I know play WoW), most I know are in better-than-average physical shape. In fact, I know only two overweight people that play WoW, but I know many more overweight people that do not.
As for depression, I can see that - I think many adult MMORPG players that stick with it are stretched to the limits by daily stress (whether it be work, kids, schedule, or whatever) and use it as
Re:Erm... (Score:5, Funny)
I have very strong typing muscles now, get regular leg exercise from nervously bouncing it under my desk, and have powerful bladder muscles from holding it in during raids.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Wow, you're rather optimistic aren't you? Everyone's a fatty! All gamers are fat asses!
Christ.
Jesus posts on Slashdot?! OMG when did you get back?
Re:Erm... (Score:5, Informative)
Its not "foolish" its a fact. Perhaps you should google before calling people foolish, eh?
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/01/040105071229.htm [sciencedaily.com]
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/5576/obesity_and_poverty_the_poorest_of.html [associatedcontent.com]
http://www.scienceblog.com/cms/correlation-between-obesity-and-poverty-health-people-2010-should-increase-attention-those-poverty-14046.html [scienceblog.com]
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/469027 [medscape.com]
http://www.allacademic.com/meta/p_mla_apa_research_citation/0/2/0/6/1/p20614_index.html [allacademic.com]
Parent
Re:Erm... (Score:5, Funny)
If anything, most of the players' right arms are in better physical condition than the average American's.
I like to use my left actually, just to mix it, um, wait what, games? Um, never mind.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
The right hand typically just presses the odd button or waggles the mouse.
oh you bet it waggles!
Re:Erm... (Score:5, Insightful)
"Sure. Multiple choice, excellent. A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A Now give me my sodding purple."
Parent
Depression (Score:5, Funny)
Truth. (Score:4, Insightful)
Hey, there's a difference between use and abuse (Score:5, Interesting)
Not that I do either, but the fact of illegal substance use is not evidence of a problem itself, more an indicator that the person has little regard for this area of law, and may be disconnected from society/not buy into its values. This links up with depression and dissatisfaction.
Re:Hey, there's a difference between use and abuse (Score:5, Interesting)
It's a bias you *always* have to account for in articles about public health, unless they come from the most unbiased clinical sources possible. (and even then, summaries by mass media usually throw the abuse moniker in)
To a large portion of the media/"public health" professionals, any use of an illegal substance, even moderate and responsible, is "abuse". These are the same people who define 5 drinks in 24 hours as a "binge".
Parent
Re:Hey, there's a difference between use and abuse (Score:5, Insightful)
It's a shame, because it affects the conclusion. IMHO it should be -
Gamers disaffected with society, resulting in depression, supporting evidence consisting of substance use...
When what we'll get is
"Gamers depressed! Turn to drugs!" or "Games depress people and are a gateway to drug use!" or "Drug use causes depression and can lead to gaming!"
Parent
Re:Hey, there's a difference between use and abuse (Score:5, Insightful)
or "Depressed people more likely to self medicate with drugs and computer games!"
Correlation is not causation.
Parent
"correlation is not causation" (Score:5, Insightful)
has become a self-reflexive meme, especially on slashdot, used without thought
well guess what: finding a correlation is the first step in establishing causation, and it is entirely logical to conjecture a causative arrangement once a correlative conneciton has been established
so in the future, i would suggest that you, and anyone else reading this comment who loves vomiting "correlation is not causation" as a substitute for actual thought, to spell out exactly why you think there is no causative arrangement here, or in any other discussion
because i, and many others i think here on slashdot and elsewhere are pretty sick of the smarmy "correlation is not causation" kneejerk response
its nothing more than intellectual laziness at best, but most usually intellectual dishonesty
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
You are right. Even the article is tagged "correlation is not causation". Nowhere in the article or the summary is said 'Gaming causes X'. If anyone has bothered to read it (Welcome, you must be new here, haha we're having so much fun) they would have noticed that the researchers SPECULATE on causes for the differences between gamers and other people, but they don't say X causes Y. Because they know that they can't prove that. Because they KNOW "correlation is not causation".
GGP says:
> It's a shame, beca
I've said it before and I'll say it again (Score:3, Funny)
It's only abuse if the drugs don't consent!
if you lived in society (Score:3, Insightful)
where all drugs were 100% legal, including meth, heroin, cocaine, etc., the use of these substances would still be seen as a mental health issue
because it is not mentally normal to need a foreign substance to support your brain chemistry
it may be harmless, yes, but look at any cigarette smoker and you pretty much have a compelling picture of the parasitism that is substance addiction
anyone who doesn't NEED drugs understands what i am talking about
and if you say you don't NEED a certain drug, and are right n
Re:if you lived in society (Score:5, Insightful)
"where all drugs were 100% legal, including meth, heroin, cocaine, etc., the use of these substances would still be seen as a mental health issue"
Those ones you mentioned, perhaps so. Other substances less so, clearly depending on whether people are exhibiting addictive behaviour.
"because it is not mentally normal to need a foreign substance to support your brain chemistry"
Agreed. Where exactly was "need" mentioned?
"anyone who doesn't NEED drugs understands what i am talking about"
I don't understand what you're talking about and it's been years since I transgressed the law in this area. You've jumped straight from me saying "not all drug use is abuse" to accusing me of being an addict.
"and if you say you don't NEED a certain drug, and are right now formulating a rationalization against these words of mine, then congratulations: you are probably an addict. an addict needs a hard, reactive wall of rationalization to convince themselves to constantly need a foregin substance for their brain chemistry"
You're barking up the wrong tree mate. My complaint was the immediate anti-drug stance (i.e. no qualification of the word abuse) taken by the media. You're the one coming up with talk about addiction, habits etc.
"in fact your words above "an indicator that the person has little regard for this area of law, and may be disconnected from society/not buy into its values" screams rationalization"
Please explain. It is now very commonplace for people to smoke weed, however doing so implies a disregard for the law of the land. It does not necessarily imply addiction, any more than going for a beer with your buddies after work implies alcoholism.
"using drugs has absolutely nothing to do with being countercultural."
Didn't say it did, I said it implied lack of respect for that area of law and not buying into society's values, notably the ones that brought that law into being and keep it in place.
"there are many people who buy all of a society's questionable values who become addicts (rush limbaugh) and there are plenty of counterculture icons who don't use drugs at all"
Again with the addiction! I would also suggest that Rush does not buy into the crap he spews forth.
"there are plenty of counterculture icons who don't use drugs at all"
So?
"or, put another way, when it comes to being counterculture and using drugs, correlation is not causation ;-)"
Yes, but when it comes to taking illegal drugs you are breaking the law, this shows explicitly that you don't respect that part of the law or the social values that brought it into being and keep it there. It's pretty simple.
I'm not trying to paint some sort of counterculture mystique here, just say it is possible to use some of these things without being or becoming an addict or an "abuser", and that if you do you probably don't fully buy into the values of the society you find yourself in as you are going directly against them.
Parent
Re:if you lived in society (Score:4, Interesting)
> if you say you don't NEED a certain drug, and are right now formulating a rationalization against these words of mine, then congratulations: you are probably an addict.
False dichotomy much? If someone smokes pot once a month, then they are a dirty addict? Once a year? Once a week? Once a day, just because they enjoy it so much?
Parent
thanks, cretin (Score:3, Informative)
imagine a continuum running from water to sugar to caffeine to methamphetamine
sonmewhere within that continuum you begin to develop legal restrictions on what is ok to use and what is not
i mean we can argue about gun control law too. but if i say i am for gun control laws, that doesn't mean i want to control your thoughts as well. likewise, if i am against gun control laws, that also doesn't mean i want everyone to have free access to plutonium
see how complicated that is cretin? arguing about moderate limit
New exercise regimen (Score:5, Funny)
The average gamer also engages in vigorous exercise once or twice a week, which the researchers say is more than most Americans.
This just in! Both chair throwing and jumping around like a monkey count as vigorous exercise.
Fitter than your average American (Score:5, Funny)
- Faster than your average snail
- Larger than your average sand grain
- Truthier than your average Scientology book
- Funnier than your average
Wait a second... (Score:4, Funny)
Proof (Score:5, Funny)
I am about to prove that the average Slashdotter is more healthy, and gets more sex than the general public.
Please reserve this thread for discussions of your physical fitness level and love life. I will start.
First, before work every morning, I run a marathon. On the weekends, I do triathlons(one each day). Ofcourse, I do this while carrying 12kg dumbbells in each hand (I drop to 8kg when swimming).
Each evening I pleasure three supermodels except during lent when I drop to one due to my highly religious beliefs.
Anyone else have any data to add to this research?
Substances (Score:5, Funny)
Of course they're depressed... (Score:4, Insightful)
They never WIN...
YAAAYYY!!! I'm level 8...
ooh... but I'm not level 9...
Games like that are a sharp contrast of what you have/haven't achieved until you top out the game... and then it's on to the next game.
heyho. (Score:4, Insightful)
in what fashion is this news?
any doctor from the 50s could of predicted this given the symptoms/way of life of a hard core gamer. they'd of been horrified to learn that most of us sit in a chair for hours at a time hammering like poor possessed souls on little rows of buttons. as for junk food and long range commutes - who knows what they would of thought?
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Self-selected survey? (Score:3, Interesting)
I bet if you performed a self-selected survey on any group you'd get slightly better than average results.
on sadness and substance abuse (Score:5, Interesting)
I'd agree with this. I just cancelled all of my accounts.
I started mmo gaming to hide from a failing marriage, after marriage counseling failed. My wife started getting meaner and meaner, so I started gaming to bury myself in my office and hide from it.
We recently decided to get a divorce. I dropped all of my accounts, started working out again and I've never been more happy in my life. "Hardcore" gamers are usually either escaping from something, or addicted to gaming. Neither situation is conducive to happiness. I'd guess that the ones who are escaping from something are more often also abusing(caffiene, pot, beer, whatever).
I don't think gaming directly causes the unhappiness, it's caused by the circumstances surrounding the gaming. I started gaming *because* I was unhappy. Obsessive compulsive gamers tend to lose their jobs and families because of the gaming. My marriage was already on life support so it was sort of reversed.
Casual gaming is also pretty prevalent and that's perfectly healthy. I'd bet that they'd get much different results interviewing casual gamers.
I quit because now I have better stuff to do and the source of my pain is gone. I'm also looking better because I cook my own food out of fresh ingredients ;). I feel really bad for addicted people. They have to hit rock bottom to quit. I never had to do that. Well actually, it's probably more accurate to say I hit rock bottom before I started gaming.
-Viz
Re:on sadness and substance abuse (Score:5, Funny)
started mmo gaming to hide from a failing marriage, after marriage counseling failed. [snip] We recently decided to get a divorce. I dropped all of my accounts, started working out again and I've never been more happy in my life.
I fucking hate people like you. you just fuck up online games with your lack of commitment. why don't you just hit the bottle like a normal person would do. or drugs. something. you know, some of us do actually enjoy gaming and don't use it as a filler for a void fucking life.
you failed at marriage. you failed at gaming. good luck "working out". hope that works out for you.
*groan*
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Depression? Really? (Score:3, Funny)
Did they survey them IN PERSON? (Score:3, Funny)
Unless they're pretending to be a girl for all the attention and free loot.
I agree (Score:3, Insightful)
I am fitter than most of my co workers and I game quite a bit, FPS only these days as RPG's are to addictive.
I can see why there would be more depression and substance abuse, after all they don't call it "Evercrack" for nothing, and video games are just another escape like drugs or alcohol for some people.
I think it stems from lack of control / feelings of powerlessness in real life and when they game (especially RPG'S) there is a feeling of control and power, escapism at its finest.
In either case I chose to only play quake style FPS (TF2, Quakewars, ETC) instead of RPG's, because in an RPG I wind up putting more effort into the game than I do my own "real life".
FPS I just shoot characters for a few hours and I am done no character to worry about.
Lies, damn lies, and Sony (Score:4, Interesting)
While everyone else is lying about their health, I'm going to be brutally honest:
1. I'm 300lbs
2. I imbibe a gallon or two of beer/liquor each week
3. Cocaine's a hell of a drug
4. Nethack, baby!
All that to say: there is absolutely no unique correlation between gaming habits and fitness. You could have any hobby/pastime in the world, if you overdo it, it can be bad for your health. If you knit 23 hours a day, you're (hopefully) gonne die. If you run marathons 23 hours a day, you're definitely gonna die.
Hell, if you jerk off 23 hours a day, you're gonna die (and be featured on CSI:Miami).
Someone needs to lay the fuck off of gamers. Just because a bunch of nutso kids in Columbine liked to play Doom, doesn't mean gamers should be treated as odd little lab rats.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:That reminds me... (Score:4, Insightful)
Speaking of other games -- who made the erroneous extrapolation that what applies to Everquest II players will necessarily apply to "gamers"? The "researchers", the slashdot submitter or the editor?
Perhaps there is a common cause for depression, playing EQ2 and being "healthy" (or did they mean "not overweight", and made another erroneous extrapolation?), and perhaps not.
In any case, this doesn't say anything about gamers in general. To use a car analogy for a change, this is like studying a group of people who own a Ford Explorer, and then extrapolate this to draw conclusion about drivers.
Parent